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[KonradLaw]

We are not even close to those limits, though. Sweden is fine, Germany is fine and both of them have taken in far more refugees per capita than countries like Norway (or the UK, France, Spain etc. etc. etc.).

For now we are. But what goverments are afraid is that this isn't a migration crisis, bu a trend. Europe can take such crisis from time to time, but if it's constant stream year after year it won't. Germany alone will have to spend 30 billions on those migrants it for last year. And those people will never be net contributor to economy. Till the day they die most will require at least partial subsidies from goverment.
EU is starting to send pretty clear message: we had enough, no more will be let in.

 

[MistakenMobius]

I mean when we see Merle's says that she is not happy about other countries not taking any migrants but does she really thinks that migrants will wants to say in Romania or Bulgaria?
I mean they don't even want to stay in France FFS

 

[Frankfurter]

For now we are. But what goverments are afraid is that this isn't a migration crisis, bu a trend. Europe can take such crisis from time to time, but if it's constant stream year after year it won't. Germany alone will have to spend 30 billions on those migrants it for last year. And those people will never be net contributor to economy. Till the day they die most will require at least partial subsidies from goverment.
EU is starting to send pretty clear message: we had enough, no more will be let in.

More like ~20 actually. And those figures are based on higher than actual refugee numbers (1.5 and 2.2 million for 2016 and 17 respectively). http://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2016-02/fluechtlinge-haushalt-kosten-studie-iw

Why would those people never be net contributors? Statistics show that especially the Syrians are relatively well educated, so it's absolutely possible for them to work here and contribute.

I mean when we see Merle's says that she is not happy about other countries not taking any migrants but does she really thinks that migrants will wants to say in Romania or Bulgaria?
I mean they don't even want to stay in France FFS

If a European distribution mechanism would have been worked out (like Merkel tried to do for months), it simply wouldn't have been the refugees choice. They would have been send to country X, Y, Z, whether they like it or not.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

For now we are. But what goverments are afraid is that this isn't a migration crisis, bu a trend. Europe can take such crisis from time to time, but if it's constant stream year after year it won't. Germany alone will have to spend 30 billions on those migrants it for last year. And those people will never be net contributor to economy. Till the day they die most will require at least partial subsidies from goverment.
EU is starting to send pretty clear message: we had enough, no more will be let in.

If they stay that long they'd acquire citizenship and immigrants are net contributors to the welfare state at large. Pretty much all citizens get partial subsidies from the government.

I will never understand this. These people are refugees but they act like they're shopping for a new car. Any stable country has to be better than a war torn nation. Why this need to find the promised land?

Because neighboring countries are well past capacity. This map is a few months old but it should still illustrate it properly.

Lebanon has just 4 million citizens but 1 million refugees.

 

[MistakenMobius]

If a European distribution mechanism would have been worked out (like Merkel tried to do for months), it simply wouldn't have been the refugees choice. They would have been send to country X, Y, Z, whether they like it or not.

Well short of putting them in camp, this would clearly not work.

They would flock to their regular destination.

 

[Frankfurter]

Well short of putting them in camp, this would clearly not work.

They would flock to their regular destination.

And would be send back, because they are already registered in a country and have been granted asylum there.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Because neighboring countries are well past capacity. This map is a few months old but it should still illustrate it properly.

Lebanon has just 4 million citizens but 1 million refugees.

Where did the other 800.000 people arriving in Germany last year disappear to in that map?

 

[MistakenMobius]

And would be send back, because they are already registered in a country and have been granted asylum there.

Europe cannot even manage to deport criminal from outside the euro zone...

 

[Frankfurter]

Europe cannot even manage to deport criminal from outside the euro zone...

Whatever that has to do with refugees inside the EU boarders..

 

[Oriel]

As if a 11 feet tall wall is gonna do fuck all about Russia's hypothetical aggressions towards Norway.

It helps towards shoring up Norway's defensive position and not have a repeat of Russian agents infiltrating border regions of NATO members like what they did a while back in Estonia. Whatever you might believe Russia IS mounting clandestine missions of aggression against NATO.

 

[Polari]

Your point being what exactly? That pension fund probably doesn't come out of nowhere, people and society as a whole work their lives long to get a proper pension (and in non-scandinavia often only get a low pension on which you can barely survive, especcially retired women are often hit very hard by it), why should they give even more away from that when they're already giving 7-8x more than Germany (who ironocally seem to feel like the moral compass of europe though, while at the same time having their highest weapon exports last year). Wrong tree to bark at.

What? It comes from oil.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Where did the other 800.000 people arriving in Germany last year disappear to in that map?

Not only is it about Syrians but I can't source any numbers where Germany accepted close to a million Syrians, the highest number I could find is 400k

 

[Kinokou]

I don't see why this would be problematic, all it does is ensuring people who enter Norway does it legally. I would even argue it makes borderpassing safer since it can hinder refugees getting lost in a waste wilderness with limited popultion and development and don't forget that this is as arctic as you can get in Europe, this area can reach -31 degrees celsius in winter.

Also, what is the deal with the source not linkin a Norweian news source? We commonly do it if there is an english source.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Not only is it about Syrians but I can't source any numbers where Germany accepted close to a million Syrians, the highest number I could find is 400k

The discussion wasn't limited to Syrians. Germany accepted over a million asylum seekers in 2015.

So far this year Europe’s leading economy has registered 964,574 new asylum seekers, more than four times the number that arrived in 2014

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...course-to-accept-one-million-refugees-in-2015

Those other people not from Syria also need to be paid for. So just saying Germany and other countries accepted less Syrians then some countries, while ignoring they also take a lot from other conflict zones, is an unfair comparison.

That is not saying that Lebanon isn't having a terrible time with it and should get more help to deal with the issue.

 

[wildfire]

Are they gonna make Russia pay for it?

If Trump loses the election maybe Norway can hire him as a wall consultant (along with all the tremendous people he's acquainted with).

If they hire Trump as a consultant that's how they'll get Russia to pay for it.

 

[Doffen]

The current conservative Norwegian government have done their best to ruin as much as possible of what's good about this country

Are you talking about lifting the Segway ban? Because if you're talking about the current asylum policy it was accepted by everyone except SV and MDG. In other words you would have the same result with a social-democratic government.

 

[old]

Walls don't work!

Fences on the other hand....way more economical.

 

[Ray Wonder]

People don't like Trump so much that they actually hate every wall now

 

[Tenebrous]

Well, it used to be all Finland until Stalin and WW2 came along.

Am I the only one that sees this?

Spoiler

 

[zoukka]

Am I the only one that sees this?

Spoiler

Finns don't call their country "maiden finland" for nothing. Well a one-armed maiden now.

 

[2real4tv]

How is a 11 ft wall going to stop anything sounds like a waste of money. Every time I hear about walls I think about the Berlin wall and I feel like we are going backwards.

 

[Gozan]

Also, no thanks to thousands of Syrian migrants who won't mesh with the mostly homogeneous Norwegian society.

Northern Norway has never been a homogenous society.


As for the wall, it's pointless, wouldn't have stopped any of the refugees who entered Norway legally and won't stop anybody as no one's coming anymore (most of the policy choices about the Syrian refugees seem to rest on the assumption that the population of Syria is infinity).

The main reason is that the Norwegian election is one year away and the right-wing idiots in government need something pointless and inefficient to thump their chest about, because actually doing something different from the other parties about refugees and immigrants would turn them into actual Nazis.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The discussion wasn't limited to Syrians. Germany accepted over a million asylum seekers in 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...course-to-accept-one-million-refugees-in-2015

Those other people not from Syria also need to be paid for. So just saying Germany and other countries accepted less Syrians then some countries, while ignoring they also take a lot from other conflict zones, is an unfair comparison.

That is not saying that Lebanon isn't having a terrible time with it and should get more help to deal with the issue.

The point is the neighboring countries do more than their fair share (except the southern Arab countries). Even a million in Germany is nothing when you consider it's 20 times more populated than the Lebanon not to speak of wealth.
Not to mention that Germany is an outlier in western and central Europe, even if they literally couldn't take any more Europe as a whole could stomach more. If we could agree to share the burden instead of fucking over Schengen border countries.

 

[Tecnniqe]

People get worked up over the smallest things lol.

Small fence to better maintain border control? Outrageous!


I wonder how the European economy is going to hold up in the long run of there is no border control of any kind like people seem to want.
Taking in 5000 here and 5000 there is a major expense economically and it needs to be done properly during integration and follow up to get them to work and what not.


Barking up the wrong tree on this one. They give billions and yet 35% of road deaths can be blamed on bad road conditions. If anything they should spend more on themselves.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The point is the neighboring countries do more than their fair share (except the southern Arab countries). Even a million in Germany is nothing when you consider it's 20 times more populated than the Lebanon not to speak of wealth.
Not to mention that Germany is an outlier in western and central Europe, even if they literally couldn't take any more Europe as a whole could stomach more. If we could agree to share the burden instead of fucking over Schengen border countries.

A million people is not nothing. It's a large burden that comes with a lot of costs on German society.

And the poster you replied to with the map didn't say anything about just the neighboring countries. To get to Norway you need to pass at least Turkey, Georgia and Russia. If you come through the other side it is Turkey, Bulgaria (EU country), Romania (EU), Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. And that is bypassing countries like Poland, the Baltic countries and Finland.

Same thing with Germany. You go through Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria. Yet people want to get to Germany and Sweden. That should not be an open choice. Part of this is the EU fault of course for screwing up.

But then you also have situations like in France where there is chaos in Calais for years on years already because people refuse to apply there and want to get into the UK. Can't blame people for getting a bit angry with that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

A million people is not nothing. It's a large burden that comes with a lot of costs on German society.

And the poster you replied to with the map didn't say anything about just the neighboring countries. To get to Norway you need to pass at least Turkey, Georgia and Russia. If you come through the other side it is Turkey, Bulgaria (EU country), Romania (EU), Ukraine, Belarus, Russia. And that is bypassing countries like Poland, the Baltic countries and Finland.

Same thing with Germany. You go through Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria. Yet people want to get to Germany and Sweden. That should not be an open choice. Part of this is the EU fault of course for screwing up.

But then you also have situations like in France where there is chaos in Calais for years on years already because people refuse to apply there and want to get into the UK. Can't blame people for getting a bit angry with that.

I didn't say it is nothing, I said it is nothing in comparison.

I don't see the point over getting angry at refugees going where they are think they are going to be treated the best. Not to mention that many countries just started passing people through even going as far as to give them rides.
I agree it shouldn't be an open choice but why is the onus supposed to be on the refugees instead of the EU fixing their dumb shit.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I didn't say it is nothing, I said it is nothing in comparison.

I don't see the point over getting angry at refugees going where they are think they are going to be treated the best. Not to mention that many countries just started passing people through even going as far as to give them rides.
I agree it shouldn't be an open choice but why is the onus supposed to be on the refugees instead of the EU fixing their dumb shit.

Those countries started offering them rides because they wouldn't stay there anyway. Better to get them through quickly then instead of having them be a danger on roads and railways to themselves. Can't really force people to stay in that country and have them apply for asylum if they don't want to. So you either need to refuse them entry, but borders = bad it seems, or get them through.

And while I wouldn't get angry at individual refugees, I can still think: well, you passed through perfectly fine countries already where you could apply, so why not do that. While at the same time not liking the EU policies that make it possible.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

It shouldn't be an open choice but it is human nature, and I can understand that.

 

[HocusPocus]

How dare they enforce their border and protect it! That's so mean. Must be an evil republican plan of some sort.

 

[Sarek]

Did everyone miss the fact that the fence will 660 feet, or about 300 meters long? Even if it is that long to both south and north from the border station it won't be even 1km long all together.

 

[Majine]

I will never understand this. These people are refugees but they act like they're shopping for a new car. Any stable country has to be better than a war torn nation. Why this need to find the promised land?

Most don't.

Turkey takes in the most syrian refugees by a wide margin.

 

[etern1ty]

I will never understand this. These people are refugees but they act like they're shopping for a new car. Any stable country has to be better than a war torn nation. Why this need to find the promised land?

You will never understand it, really? Put down the "these poor refugees just want a safe place to leave" glasses and realize the reality of economic migrants taking advantage of gullible Europeans with warm hearts and open arms.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Did everyone miss the fact that the fence will 660 feet, or about 300 meters long? Even if it is that long to both south and north from the border station it won't be even 1km long all together.

We also skipped the part where Russia already has a fence there along the whole border I think.

On the Russian side there is a fence located anywhere between 0 and 5 kilometers (0 and 3 mi) from the border. Although not electrified, it has sensors which will notify the border controllers if touched.[24] The fence stretches the entire distance between the Barents Sea and the Gulf of Finland and was built during the Cold War to keep in the population of the Soviet Union. It remains the only barbed-wire fence along a Russian border in Europe.[67] Within lies the Border Security Zone which civilians are not permitted access to.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Those countries started offering them rides because they wouldn't stay there anyway. Better to get them through quickly then instead of having them be a danger on roads and railways to themselves. Can't really force people to stay in that country and have them apply for asylum if they don't want to. So you either need to refuse them entry, but borders = bad it seems, or get them through.

And while I wouldn't get angry at individual refugees, I can still think: well, you passed through perfectly fine countries already where you could apply, so why not do that. While at the same time not liking the EU policies that make it possible.

They also didn't apprehend them so that they wouldn't register there when they applied in a country they ferried them to. You can't force people to seek asylum but if they are registered they will be send back if they apply for asylum elsewhere. At least that's how it was supposed to work but if I think Germany invoked a clause that changed that for them.

 

[Zepp Twofist]

The main reason is that the Norwegian election is one year away and the right-wing idiots in government need something pointless and inefficient to thump their chest about, because actually doing something different from the other parties about refugees and immigrants would turn them into actual Nazis.

Not a single person will brag about this fence come election. I don't think anyone will remember it two days from now.