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Now Sweden suspends Schengen due to migrant crisis
- Thread starter TCRS
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robertsan21
Member
About time, this should have happend a long time ago. The rest of europe needs to start taking in these refugees
Probably just setting up some border control, like it should have been done from the beginning. A big percentage of the refugees don't even come from Syria and refuse asylum in the first peaceful countries they arrive to. This is not how it's supposed to work.
The rest of the countries wouldn't mind but the refugees would obvious prefer to move to the richer countries, nobody can blame them. There's no need to start throwing blame.
That's not Schengen - Schengen is the lack of border controls.
It is. The Schengen area is supposed to have external borders, but no internal border checks.
I don't really know how I feel about this yet. Perhaps it will be good, then Sweden will know who is coming, how many is coming and where they are coming from. But I really hope this is not a first step towards closing our borders to refugees.
rooflapimp
Banned
Do you honestly believe this yourself?
Lots of non-refugees are mingling into the refugee streams, I guess this is teaching EU countries to get better at kicking out those who are obviously not refugees. Though many countries seem to be intent on throwing out the baby with the bathwater and deporting even those who are in genuine need of help. And discussions on the subject tend to devolve into throwing around articles about individual assholes and acting like that's the average, not the exception.
Ah well, the frost should help separating those who actually need help from those who are just looking for a benefit.
Enosh
Member
germany and sweden invited them, they can keep them
edit: plus it's not like they want to be anywhere else anyway
There is no easy solution. Many of the refugees already made up their mind on where they want to go and its not the poorer countries of the EU. Which should in and of itself make you question the motives in the first place. A Poorer EU country has to be better than what they were leaving in the first place.
What I mean is they are open to it and refugees are being sent there. It's not like everyone is refusing to take them. That's not what is happening.
It would be cool if Europe could stop blaming every other country every time there's a problem. There's zero unity in the EU and it's tiring.
Alx
Member
Distributing the refugees across Europe is a complex task in itself, but I think something needs to be done communication-wise at the source. I mean Sweden is fine and all, but I can't see why all those refugees would want to go there in particular. It's probably "trending" among the migrant population and maybe they see it as some kind of utopia, but it certainly won't be if they all try to get to the same place.
Maybe we should send the message "settling in Denmark, Belgium, France, Germany, Austria,... is fine too". Well of course it would be easier to say if the different countries were more open to accept they share of the migrations.
Imagine if there was a country who invited refugees with the slogan of
And then imagine that same country had actually created the current refugee crisis through their middle-east policy.
And you'd start wondering how this country is not carting the refugees in.
Sinfamy
Member
But what about all those poor Albanians from their war torn nation totally not taking advantage of the situation.
baudelinog
Member
Unexpected.
It wouldn't have to be that complex at all, actually, at least not in principle. Just set up and finance a central processing authority that distributes the refugees in a way that gives them the best chance to integrate and provide EU-funds for the countries that are less well-off. It would obviously take a lot of work and debate to implement but it's the only viable, long-term solution.
The main reasons refugees are choosing Germany and Sweden has to do with already having family and friends there or feeling that they will be welcomed. Even with a central authority some of this needs to be taken into account. However, the suggestions that it's pointless because the refugees will move on right away anyway is based on a misunderstanding: refugees don't automatically become EU-citizens after being granted asylum so they don't have freedom of movement. There's not going to be masses of refugees willing to live illegally in Sweden or Germany (with no right to work or benefits) if they are already living legally in say Poland.
This is something that needs too be done. Shutting the borders aren't an option - there are millions of refugees on Turkey and Lebanon that won't stay put because they don't have a future there. They aren't even allowed to work in Turkey and are only given the bare minimum to survive, for them living illegally in the EU can still be an attractive option and they will keep coming, asylum or not. It doesn't solve anything.
We need to take responsibility for the crisis as a Union. If we don't people will keep dying, countries will keep being overwhelmed and the EU will keep fracturing.
how does this work? how can people refuse asylum?
regardless, if a refugee sees there are major differences between staying in Germany vs staying in Portugal, then I think EU has dropped the ball here.
if all immigrants were told "it's all the same, you get the same asylumseeker treatment everywhere within EU, no use trying to be a smartass" upon arriving in the EU, I think we'd have a better situation.
if Germany provides Food, Shelter and healthcare and Austria provides a middle finger then no wonder why we are in the current situation.
Exactly. It's lunacy that we just ignored for so long how letting every country have their own asylum policies isn't compatible with open internal borders. If we're going to have a common exterior border we need a common immigration procedure if we're going to deal with these kinds of numbers.
Edit: As for refusing asylum it's pretty simple: just don't register yourself. Don't sign anything. This obviously means you're transiting illegally but the transit countries have decided to ignore it so far, reinstating border controls like Sweden has is a way to stop this.
Yup, it isn't managed well at all
I mean, I'm in Portugal and I would much rather be in Sweden. They are richer and have better conditions of living than we do.
If I would be forced to start over my life why not do it in the rich countries? It makes sense they would move up to the richer countries since the frontiers are open. Of course then those countries don't have capacity for everyone. It's a very complicated issue for sure.
I think you can try and "advertise" the other countries but some will always be less appealing by default. It's the situation EU is in right now.
But every solution is better than pointing fingers which is something EU countries like to do way to often.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yep, I'm 100% behind this. We can't let this endless uncontrolled stream of immigrants continue, we just can't handle it.
Hahahahaha, good one...
Yeeep, that's pretty much the attitude of most of Europe.
For the people who are actually refugees any EU country will be much better than what they fled form. For those who are not, sorry, but back you go (ideally). We can't take in every single person on the planet who wants a better economic situation.
EDIT:
Border control in effect, people being stopped (my translation):
Aftonbladet said:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/paflykt/article21747881.ab
Heh, not quite sure what Merkel was thinking there when she decided to make that decision. Just pure lunacy.
milanbaros
Member?
To give some perspective to Americans reading, that is the equivalent of 6 million refugees in population % terms.
I don't understand why the US aren't taking more given their history if taking the displaced and their (and Britain's) involvement in destabilising the middle east.
I don't understand why the US aren't taking more given their history if taking the displaced and their (and Britain's) involvement in destabilising the middle east.
Palette Swap
Member
That sums up the problem pretty well as every country says exactly this.
That precisely why the US isnt. That and inviting more Muslims wouldnt making anyone proposing such a thing popular and there seems to be little pressure currently to make any significant change.
The initial open door policy has exacerbated the crisis. Now Europe is getting bombarded with countless people trying to take advantage of the Syrian Crisis and sneak in under the cover of fleeing war when they are not even from Syria in the first place.
Syrian Refugees should have been embraced from the beginning without sacrificing the systems in place. Breaking down the system just made things a lot worse.
milanbaros
Member?
So America is in favour of accepting Christians but not Muslims? That is sad if true.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I honestly don't believe accepting six million refugees into the US would really change a thing here (as in the US, not the situation, it would definitely change the situation), so long as they're dispersed to different major cities. I'd happily welcome them, but our government seems to just be ignoring it. The only ones I would really see raising a stink here is the republicans.
Nicktendo86
Member
Well, who didn't see that coming. The whole episode has been a complete farce.
This is a horribly naive statement. "Only the Republicans" represents almost half of the country and watch how many democrats change their minds if this were to happen.
Sweden dug their own grave. A few months back, Danish and Swedish politicians met to debate the crisis. This was after Denmark had published the article in lib anon, statting they could not guarantee asylum for refugees. Sweden was all over the place, stating that refugees only have a positive macroeconomic effect and they would gladly take many, MANY more.
... Now they closed their borders. No refugees wanted to stay in Denmark, they all went straight to Sweden dude to the almost guaranteed asylum and family reunion.
Germany estimated, the next 3 years, a total of 8mill refugees will seek asylum in Germany alone. Thats 10% of the german population. How will the german system counter this?
Most of these refugees, are not refugees. After they cross the border from greece to Bulgaria (or other country), they become migrants. I read somehere that over 60% of them are not even Syrian or Iraqi, but Afghans, Iranians and others who are just seeking a better life.
We are in a sad period, where there are many people fleeing and we can't help all of them.
I personally, being egyptian and resident in Denmark, have no clue on what could be done.
... Now they closed their borders. No refugees wanted to stay in Denmark, they all went straight to Sweden dude to the almost guaranteed asylum and family reunion.
Germany estimated, the next 3 years, a total of 8mill refugees will seek asylum in Germany alone. Thats 10% of the german population. How will the german system counter this?
Most of these refugees, are not refugees. After they cross the border from greece to Bulgaria (or other country), they become migrants. I read somehere that over 60% of them are not even Syrian or Iraqi, but Afghans, Iranians and others who are just seeking a better life.
We are in a sad period, where there are many people fleeing and we can't help all of them.
I personally, being egyptian and resident in Denmark, have no clue on what could be done.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I was talking about politicians. And maybe it was naive, but Republicans are currently the ones that have caught the buttmad about immigrants. Maybe some dem politicians would become anti-immigration to if it were the case, but then I wouldn't really have a favorable opinion towards them either.
America is first and foremost in favor of highly qualified, well-educated immigrants. Which doesn't sound bad on paper, except that most refugees will not fit the criteria. That, and they also have the Atlantic Ocean to help distance themselves from the current situation in Europe, Africa and the Middle East
More Fun To Compute
Member
On the bright side it's totally possible that prosperous countries in the EU will also become hellish in the future and people will not be so tempted to move there. The system can stabilise itself naturally.
ThaneKrios
Banned
Speak for yourself. Youth unemployment alone is ridiculous, let alone with the rest of our population...of course we mind.
Giant Panda
Member
That is unfortunate. For economic and humanitarian reasons more economic and refugee migrants should be welcomed. Most research does support the conclusion that immigration of all kinds is a net benefit. To me it looks like these controls are being placed for political reasons than more practical ones.
Schengen getting discarded, borders getting fences with razor wire in them, the right wing on the rise...
Well done you idiots.
Right, having run out of rooms and beds is a political reason.
Well done you idiots.
Right, having run out of rooms and beds is a political reason.
The distribution would have to be proportional and account for that obviously.
This was gonna happen sooner or later. The traffickers are going to keep selling European dreams to profit off those refugees and the influx won't really stop until EU takes a hard stance. Syrian refugees should be welcomed and helped but for that they need proper controls otherwise you just have economic migrants from all over.
More Fun To Compute
Member
What sort of comment is this. If there is no benefit to EU membership then being part of the EU would be absurd.
Giant Panda
Member
So getting more rooms and beds isn't an option?
Well, if you consider it in its entirety it means that you also have to contribute something.
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