I think it is difficult to find a movie that isn't some kind of Porky's comedy or softcore porn, that has a character anywhere near as ridiculous as Quiet.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Now that the dust is settled, Quiet's probably the most embarrassing gaming character
- Thread starter ZombiePlatypus
- Start date
I think it is difficult to find a movie that isn't some kind of Porky's comedy or softcore porn, that has a character anywhere near as ridiculous as Quiet.
Glorious Ownage
Member
I agree. I felt embarrassed when my wife came down and I was in some cut scene where she was like showering in her cell. It was just kind of absurd
I didnt finish the game, got to about chapter 23 so maybe theres something I havent seen yet.
But although she was a little provocative at times, I dont see an issue with it. Its not like its DOA or something. Ive been much more disgusted by violence in say a GTA game than I have with quiet laying down without a top on.
But although she was a little provocative at times, I dont see an issue with it. Its not like its DOA or something. Ive been much more disgusted by violence in say a GTA game than I have with quiet laying down without a top on.
Terareflection
Member
It's a bit sad about Quiet.
Haven't played MGS 5 yet, but she seems to come off as the character who supposedly lifts spirits from the the doom and gloom. She suppose to have a fun and playful personality outside of battle.
But the first half of that rain scene just makes me think she's actually the fanservice waifu girl, and the "fun and playful" personality in the second half is just a part of the waifuness to make otakus fall for her more.
Haven't played MGS 5 yet, but she seems to come off as the character who supposedly lifts spirits from the the doom and gloom. She suppose to have a fun and playful personality outside of battle.
But the first half of that rain scene just makes me think she's actually the fanservice waifu girl, and the "fun and playful" personality in the second half is just a part of the waifuness to make otakus fall for her more.
Kojima always had a... Weird relationship to female characters in his games. Quiet and the B&B are some of his low points in this regard.
What happens is that he usually offsets this with good writing, interesting points of view about both the topics of the game and the topic of gaming itself, and a lot of qualities Michael Bay proudly lacks.
But the "pornographic sensibility" is definetly there, and it is a sign of his devolution in a way. You start with MGS that has Meryl naturalistic in panties and some bikini shots here and there as visual gags, then you go on to Fortune and Vamp as more sexualized characters, to Eva as a bond girl whose cleavage is almost a character trait, to the B&B and sex toys with a backstory tackled on to, finally, Quiet who is a sex toy with a scifi justification tackled on.
There are other women in the series, but that is how I see the progress of "Kojima and sex" anyway. It starts with Meryl doing pantless exercises in bed on a kind of voyeuristic scene (that can be easily missed) that is barely sexual to a Quiet in a bikini on literally pornographic shots.
These days, I see most of metal gear through the lense of the (admitedly cliché) point of view of an artist trapped by an industry, almost forced to relive his one really succesful work because that's where the money is. His treatment of sex feels like detachment. He used to care about these female characters enough to, well, treat them like actual characters. As time goes by and his fatigue with this series increases, he just doesn't care anymore. Female characters are thrown in there like the visual gag of the poster of a Model on the locker door, like nanomachines and MGS3 characters were thrown in there to give answers about everything, like he apparently couldn't be bothered to create a story about men becoming demons and the descent of a war hero into a war lord.
It's funny that those games have so much detail and big part of them oozes with love, but then there are parts, like Quiet, that feels like a ceeator just giving up.
What games objectify and try to make violence a good thing ?
Games like Hatred, that ARE shamed and complained about.
captainpat
Member
Didn't it also sell a lot too?
BadAss2961
Member
Every other shooter, action, or GTA-like game?
The only difference with Hatred is it puts you in the context of a mass murderer.
Because of how the polemic trow it on the spotlight.
Exactly what PlayAsia expected to do with DoAXBV3 =P
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Saw the spoiler before it was removed. That's enough internet for me today
I don't understand that shit at all, you would think on GAF at least people wouldn't be willing to throw away their accounts just to be dicks.
I'm going to hope it was a joke. And even if it is, what a waste of humanity. Christ.
Happy-Bunny
Banned
Quiet is embarrassing?
LOL
LOL
BadAss2961
Member
That's too bad. Reminds me to stay off the internet for Batman v Superman.Saw the spoiler before it was removed. That's enough internet for me today
Quiet is embarrassing?
LOL
lol
captainpat
Member
old manatee
Banned
The game never makes you shoot because the protagonist thinks it is fun ... it has reasons like killing a bad guy or punishment like rising your wanted level when you break those rules.
I am talking about game logic, not "why you buy it"
kavanf1
Member
I don't know about making it a good thing, but the majority of "big" games going back to Doom objectify inflicting brutal violence on others. The difference is, objectification of violence is more ingrained as acceptable in Western culture than objectification of sexuality.
The Jackdog
Member
yeah but at least everybody is dressed dumb in that.
quiet is like the only woman in the game and looks like that. the rest are perfectly clothed men.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
That was also 1968. 50+ years later you would think men would have a bit more respect for women.
Also, the camera is more egregious to me than her outfit. It's full on voyeuristic mode.
Quiet is embarrassing?
LOL
holy shit "HATERS GONNA HAAAATE" hahah XD
kavanf1
Member
I always thought the point of MGS was to avoid violence as much as possible. It's what you get the biggest rewards for, after all.
So justin bieber albums
And even when I meant other things, people DID complained about both GTA and Doom when they were released because of the violence
Yes but it still glorifies violence and conflict.
There's no discussing or even avoiding boss fights in the games, cutscenes with cool violence taking place and all.
And more importantly, it's not treated as badly as this
Always-honest
Banned
I thought she was pretty badass...
Some scenes, especially one, were pretty embarrassing, yes.
But what can you expect from a guy obsessed with fart-jokes?
Some scenes, especially one, were pretty embarrassing, yes.
But what can you expect from a guy obsessed with fart-jokes?
kavanf1
Member
People did, but not generally the people who played the games. Generally the response to histrionics over gratuitous violence in video games by the people who play those games is meh, get over it, they're only games. Yet gratuitous sexual objectification gets a harder time of it from those same players.
My view is that games should contain whatever the creator wants them to contain, and let the consumer decide whether it suits them or not. If it doesn't, that's perfectly fine. There are other games out there that will.
What I don't agree with is people claiming offence and attempting to alter the way games are created just because they take offence or - worse - because they are worried that others might take offence. By all means boycott products that you don't like, but don't try to deprive others of a product just because you don't like it. Let market forces take care of that. The game is rated M for grown ups, and grown ups can make up their minds for themselves.
Taking films as a reference again, shit like Transformers gets produced. Stuff like Amelie also gets produced, and one existing doesn't mean the other shouldn't, or can't.
I quite like gratuitous violence in video games, and I'm ambivalent about sexual objectification (of any gender). I'm willing to play games containing both, or one, or neither of those things. However I don't think it's my right to tell the creator of something they're wrong and shouldn't have done it that way. That would just be, like, my opinion, man.
silvermember
Banned
I meant Quiet isn't a portrayal of your average woman in the real world, nor is she meant to be. The character is way off the wall like many things in the series.
The rain scene was over the top, but not out of line for her character. Someone earlier compared her to Eva and how Eva's behavior makes sense because she wants to bone Snake. Well, I thought it was obvious that Quiet develops a crush for Snake as you bond with her. The higher the bond, the more flirty she is in the chopper. By the end I actually credited this part of the story since they just become bros instead of the usual romance.
Isn't that exactly what this topic is about. The fact that her character is so bad, that if you replace her with a dog it wouldn't change the narrative that much except that it would be less ridiculous.
Her character is already terrible, using the justification that it isn't out of character is not strengthening your argument.
Saw the spoiler before it was removed. That's enough internet for me today
Wait. The spoiler was real?! Really???!? Fuck. Did the poster get banned?
cartographer
Member
I'd say so. DOAX doesn't make an excuses for what it is. It's a niche product that is blatant fanservice. It's like criticizing adult magazines for the portrayal of women versus criticizing a blockbuster movie or TV show.
edit: Spoilers are filtering though? I guess I'm done with forums today.
BadAss2961
Member
It's funny you'd say that since there just happens to be a fully featured dog (or wolf) in the game that's very important but doesn't get the arc Quiet does.
Quiet's strange and she loves the rain. The horror... I got the hint in the first meeting. Watching her dance and glow in water during the sniper duel was a standard lolwtf 'MGS' moment.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
That it's irrelevant to the current discussion, and almost undermines the very real struggle of a country that's in the bottom 50 or so regarding gender equality in the developed world.
Violence is TOTALLY fetishized. They can give context, but it doesn't change the fact that camera angles, unnecessary focus, slow motion, and other factors are clearly meant to illicit excitement rather than disgust. It's called "gorn" for a reason. The only difference between that and Hatred is it puts you in the shoes of someone that is inarguably a villain, and so the illusion of context is unnecessary.
Hell, I'd say that mirrors this Quiet discussion pretty well.
YianGaruga
Banned
mortal kombat?
people fucking love mortal kombat
50-ish years ago?
Cool beansQuiet is embarrassing?
LOL
What was it?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
No one has said that critics are infallible, the implication that creators are keeps coming up whenever someone states yet again "He can do what he wants."
Structural sexism is a very real thing, and Quiet in many ways reinforces it.
One of the jokes of Raiden's character, a common joke, is that he is very feminine in appearance. So moments like this aren't meant for titillation. Not to mention just how short the segment is, the two are incomparable.
Yes Solid Snake is perfect even when as an old man, BB however, isn't constantly advertised in the sneaking suit outside of GZ.
1. You're right, and yes, feminism argues that sexism is "human nature" (something we've been moving away from for millenia). It's a biological imperative that women are under thumb, even if inadvertently, basically.
2. Are there any religions/religious practices that don't originate with problematic rules about male/female relations?
I wasn't saying that man - you were saying that. You were saying 'sexual objecification/sexy women in games doesnt mean anything about bigger, wider issues surrounding sexism' and i was saying that is just not true. YOU were separating the cultural output from the culture.
BadAss2961
Member
Give us our MK, give us our God of War.
Which reminds me... The sex in God of War, which is just audio, is often more frowned upon than the violence among gamers.
80s Bad Guy
Banned
Some ass hat posted a star wars spoiler. Thankfully the mods have been on the ball today removing those posts and users.
Too late for me though.
Oh shit sorry man, glad I dodged that mess.
I of course disagree with you, I think Quiet is a failure in concept and execution. But I do understand your perspective.
What? I haven't seen anyone actually advocate for censorship here.
I'm all for the equal opportunity side of the argument. The problem seems to be that women aren't necessarily turned on by the mirror-image of what excites men. I remember reading that Playgirl, at it's height, was subscribed to by more gay men than straight women. OTOH, I'm not aware of that many men reading romance novels though I don't have any numbers on it.
I'm not for censorship though.
It's OK to abort one's own babies, but leave those of creators alone!
I'm not for censorship though.
It's OK to abort one's own babies, but leave those of creators alone!
I've seen it happen several times in threads like this. Even for those who read the thread and post in good faith.
...But she is!!! How do you not see this?
Every man in the game is stern, unobjectified, dressed realistically, and physically restrained (unless exhibiting anger - so 'manly') while the only woman in the game routinely lounges around near-naked, rolls in rain, wiggles butt for the player.
She is a professional soldier standing naked next to lots of professional soldiers who are fully clothed. And the only difference is the clothed soldiers are men.
Are people blind? I just can't believe what I'm reading ITT. Especially people who are one-and-done-ing the issue with horrid, ignorant drive-bys.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The thing that makes the "b-b-but gais we need to talk about violence too" deflection is that violence is often contextualized down to a in video games and is the main interaction. Snake shooting a gun while wearing a military outfit doesn't look out of place, assassins don't look out of place, Drake shooting mercenaries doesn't look out of place, they're all explained and feel right. Quiet however, has such a flimsy explanation that has more holes than a a slice of cheese that it's incredibly out of place, which is common for sexual objectification in serious narratives.