CelticVegas
Banned
This is basically this thread in a post. Thanks.
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Now that the dust is settled, Quiet's probably the most embarrassing gaming character
- Thread starter ZombiePlatypus
- Start date
This is basically this thread in a post. Thanks.
Yes, you would be incredibly reductive of the issues people have in this thread because you assume all men are straight and also that all men think women rolling around in the rain are immediately attractive.
In case you haven't caught on yet, the problem with your Everything is that neither of the above assumptions are true.
EDIT: Sorry, not "men". "Males". My bad.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Actually her face is shown when shes tortured. And where else would you want her to be shocked?
And citation needed on the devs choosing shock torture for the intent of focusing on her breasts. Like some others, you're assigning intent(whether its claiming Kojima is sexist or they chose shock torture to show breasts) without any proof.
I get it. You dislike Quiet. But at this point your projecting intent onto her where there is none. If you can cite me that Kojima chose shock torture to just show off her breasts, Ill concede my point here and now.
CelticVegas
Banned
I say that there are males and females that gets sexualized. Female like sexualized men and women in games. Male too. There's nothing wrong about that.
People should be less bigot and less hypocritical. (you don't watch porn? You never objectify nobody?)
Live and let live.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But yeah, I see it a lot - "how dare you criticize [female character] for being sexualized, you sexist!" And of course, comparing real women making the decision to sexualize themselves to fictional characters being sexualized and asking what the difference is (both of which you've done).
Quiet is not being criticized for being sexual. Kojima is being criticized for making a character who is sexual for no good reason. The fact is, Quiet is sexual because it sells games. Not because she needs to be stripped down in order to breathe properly.
EDIT: To respnd to your above post...
I do watch porn. That you think this is a valid comparison tells me that you might just have a serious disconnect with reality, if you think that men and women choosing to star in pornography is the same as a character being designed in a war situation to be sexual. How many people need to tell you how many times just how bad a comparison you're making is? Quiet didn't "choose" to be sexual, and thus, the comparison to porn is 100% in error.
Quiet is not being criticized for being sexual. Kojima is being criticized for making a character who is sexual for no good reason. The fact is, Quiet is sexual because it sells games. Not because she needs to be stripped down in order to breathe properly.
EDIT: To respnd to your above post...
I do watch porn. That you think this is a valid comparison tells me that you might just have a serious disconnect with reality, if you think that men and women choosing to star in pornography is the same as a character being designed in a war situation to be sexual. How many people need to tell you how many times just how bad a comparison you're making is? Quiet didn't "choose" to be sexual, and thus, the comparison to porn is 100% in error.
Especially ironic since the post you quoted is waiting for the argument to be used in the future yet here you are claiming this is the entire thread.
You really, really don't. You're dismissive and you assume everything the developers did, they did with a specific intent NOT to titillate.
If that were true, she wouldn't be almost naked for the vast majority of the game.
CelticVegas
Banned
I KNOW! I know that post was sarcastic. People here talk bad about Quiet like there are none sexualized males. There are. And it's good both ways.
I heard that before. People criticizing Quiet are acting like there are none sexualized males in videogames.
Show me a single male character clothed like quiet in a AAA game on the scale of MGSV who's not played for laughs.
Gotta love it when the dude who's defending Quiet brings up porn as a defense.
A Link to the Past
Banned
How about this. You make a list of sexualized men, I'll make a list of sexualized women.
CelticVegas
Banned
A Link to the Past
Banned
CelticVegas
Banned
Why? It's objectification. It's so hard to understand?
I get it, you're all close minded. Bye!
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, it's consenting men and women choosing to have sex on camera for money. But yeah, sorry that we don't understand your "video game characters should be treated in the same way that real people are" angle :v
AmaterasuOni
Banned
He's like the Tom of Finland of War. Disturbingly masculine male-daydream. Like all the white powerful hunks in gaming. We need to stop this once and for all! Or wait...
These are games, they're fantasy, if you get offended by playing these games, just move on. There's always people who like their over-sequalized pixels the way the devs wanted to create them. Then there's the people who get offended, I'm pretty sure there's games for them as well. Everyone is happy when they get to play games they like, to look at the pixels they like. I like my pixels fantastical, not based on reality. I like them sexualized, unsexualized and non-sexualized. I like games, not the pseudo-internet-warriorism.
I like Quiet, she looks hot for someone who is made out of pixels. I also like Life is Strange's Max and Mirror's Edge's Faith, I also like many other female characters in games. Sometimes they look hot, sometimes they're funny, sometimes wise, sometimes I hate them. One thing is, I do not need to make drama out of them when I don't like some aspects about them. They're fictional characters, I know what's based in reality and what's not.
Am I really strange when I don't like people to tell me what I should like and what I should hate? I like Quiet, therefore I must be evil. Logical.
Literally nobody said that.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If you're going to talk to me, make sure to reply to what I say instead of just going on a rant about things no one is saying to you.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Nah. I take this as humor, like I do with all internet saltiness. But I do have a point there as well.
But I'm evil. Trust me on this one.
partyphone
Banned
46 pages in and people are still seriously arguing that fiction shouldn't be criticized. cool.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Dismissive? No. If I was dismissive I would do something like pick 3 words from what is a few sentences and then misconstrue a persons intent. No, Im not dismissive nor do I make up things like "the devs chose this nrand of torture with the intent of showing us her breasts."
But you do make up things like "the devs have to focus on her breasts because that's where she was tortured".
Hmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. This is going nowhere, so I'm done with this. Have a nice day!
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Why should it? We all have means to choose what we read, watch or play. You or no one else shouldn't be able to choose on my behalf. When the choice is made beforehand by the means of internet warriorism and soft censorship, it's even worse.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Nah. I take this as humor, like I do with all internet saltiness. But I do have a point there as well.
But I'm evil. Trust me on this one.
Your points aren't very great because most of what games are is fantasy. We criticize a lot of fantastical elements. Yet, it seems that criticizing this one fantastical element, well, that is just going too far.
Quiet would be an okay design if it was contexualized, but it isn't. It uses a really flimsy justification for why she is dressed the way she is, and it's not appropriate for wartime situations. You also would not expect to see a male character wearing anything equivalent to that in sexuality in this situation. What is wrong with asking for parity in the industry, and asking why so much greater a percentage of female characters are overtly sexualized compared to male characters?
For longer than any living human has been alive, we have criticized fiction for certain things, and have influenced them. This is not a new thing. What is actually happening is that certain groups of people are becoming more vocal and more numerous, and thus the direction of the industry is shifting more and more away from what you like and want. Sucks for you, but as someone told me re: women being sexualized to sell copies, industry gonna industry. That argument got thrown around a ton, and now that the industry isn't doing that as much, instead of being a matter of appealing to growing demos, it's censorship. It's basically that the people who once had gaming catered to them are seeing it happen much less often. I can't blame you for being upset that games are moving away from you and your interests, but it's not Internet warriorism and it's not soft censorship (or censorship at all). It's people doing what has always been done in gaming to make games be more to their tastes.
LyleLanley
Banned
Wait what? What does this have to do with censorship?
It seems like you're confusing criticism of a character design with criticism of you because you like that design. Calling out Quiet's prurient outward design and cinematic posturing is a completely valid point to raise. Particularly when the creator "called out" audiences for assuming the worst, which most would agree ended up being true. You can still appreciate that design while those criticisms are also true.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Have you seen the torture scene? Im going to assume no. The cinematography does a poont of focusing on things as they happen. Whether its a guy getting his teeth broken with a knife or Hueys leg spazzing out. Or 2 characters talking.
Also, here you are being dismissive again.
Well that was quick
A Link to the Past
Banned
I think that they are expressing a worry that Internet activism/soft censorship will affect the output of such characters.
Vamp is topless and has the ridiculous dick knife sheath.
Have you never criticized gameplay or story or music or art style or anything about a video game or a book or a movie or or or?
Haha, that is a damn ridiculous sheathe. But by virtue of its sheer ridiculousness, it is played for laughs, no? Also he's not wearing a thong, like Quiet is.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Quiet isn't topless though, she's wearing a thong, bra, and torn stockings.
BibiMaghoo
Member
The bottom line for me is that she was designed one way, then Kojima asked she was redesigned to be more sexual than originally intended. This says everything one needs to know about Kojimas intent, and the intent of her design. That is not something that should be defended, when this is the end result, in my view.
People can have no issue with it, and that is fine, but there was no grand artistic vision here. He wanted smut and specifically asked for it after the fact.
People can have no issue with it, and that is fine, but there was no grand artistic vision here. He wanted smut and specifically asked for it after the fact.
Its a ridiculous thing taken completely seriously by everyone in universe, which is standard for MGS, but I dont know if Id say its played for laughs. Vamp is a very formidable knife user.
Yep.
And honestly, if he was just honest about it, instead of using that bullshit "you will feel ashamed" line, it'd be infinitely better. The fact that he pretends there's a reason for it... Man.
I suppose that's fair, although I'd argue that a lot of MGS is played for laughs in that exact manner. It's part of why I love the series so much.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I think what really stands out is for how much people act like people are villainized for liking Quiet, most of the post that relate to trying to shut people down are people telling those who don't like Quiet's design to not talk about it.
EDIT: Also soft censorship is a stupid concept. It's basically just another way to say criticism, because if someone is criticizing something, it should be assumed that they want that something to change, which would make it fall under soft censorship.
EDIT: Also soft censorship is a stupid concept. It's basically just another way to say criticism, because if someone is criticizing something, it should be assumed that they want that something to change, which would make it fall under soft censorship.
I suppose that's fair, although I'd argue that a lot of MGS is played for laughs in that exact manner. It's part of why I love the series so much.
Yea, same here. Thats why I said "Its pretty standard for MGS"
LyleLanley
Banned
Hopefully it does change the output of future characters. Quiet could've been a good character, instead we got a woman who literally needs to be practically naked because of stupid reasons.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
My points are perfectly valid. I encourage everyone to do what they want and to like whatever they like without anyone coming to say them they're evil or wrong. You have your voice of concern, I'm the opposite. I like Quiet, she's sexy. That's the main point of this thread. I like sexy women, even the fictional ones. And I understand you as well. But when the discussion enters the areas of censorship and such, I oppose you as hard as I can.
In all honesty, I couldn't care less if Solid Snake would wear a bikini, thong, high heels or get fully nude. It's still a game, a work of fiction, there's no war time. Only one thing remains: the work of the author(s). Although many insecure young gamers wouldn't buy the game if there would be full frontal male nudity, so it's kind of a business decision as well. Sex sells, but not in the form of white masculine males.
My points still stand as sometimes I like my fiction to be laughable sexy, even slutty like porn. I am evil.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Yes, but I do not make a fuzz out of it. I just move on, because there's better things in life, like watching a new movie or play some other game that is more to my liking. I find it easy like that. Wallet is a powerful tool as well.
A Link to the Past
Banned
But he doesn't, and even if he did, he would not be remotely a part of a large group of male characters. You can't exactly say how you would feel in a hypothetical situation, because you don't experience a situation where male characters are consistently pigeon holed.
That said, your conceit clearly involves the idea of shaming, but no one is shaming people for liking Quiet, people are criticizing. Not censoring or Internet warrioring, just criticizing. And if it changes, well, it will change. And it won't be censorship, it will be a company responding to what the market is saying.
That said, your conceit clearly involves the idea of shaming, but no one is shaming people for liking Quiet, people are criticizing. Not censoring or Internet warrioring, just criticizing. And if it changes, well, it will change. And it won't be censorship, it will be a company responding to what the market is saying.
Jazzy Network
Member
I've never actually played MGSV but I am curious whether Quiet is actually quiet? Can she not talk? I am assuming based on some posts in this thread.
This includes a few things about MGSV's plot that were intended to be surprises:
A large part of the game revolves around vocal chord parasites that are triggered to breed when they feel the vibration of speech. These parasites are bred to respond only to certain languages and weaponized so that when the parasites breed they destroy the lungs and throat of the victim. Quiet is carrying latent English parasites and she cannot speak since every word she utters carries the risk of activating the parasites which would spread like a virus using her as the vector for propigation. Then she would die as they move down to her lungs to breed.
So she CAN talk (and does at the conclusion to her arc) but refuses to save her own life and keep the Diamond Dogs safe from the parasites she would unleash on them.
So she CAN talk (and does at the conclusion to her arc) but refuses to save her own life and keep the Diamond Dogs safe from the parasites she would unleash on them.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
I actually fear that the small but very vocal groups of "these" people are enforcing the soft censorship. Typically the whiner goup is small, but they know how to twist the internet. Typical gamers on the other hand aren't very vocal, they just play. The issue I see here is that this small group can change the face of gaming into a safe and grey direction where no one likes gaming anymore. All characters and stories might become flavorless and dull, because "now everyone like's them" and in reality everyone hates them.
I enjoy gonzo, smut and filth. Even in games. And then I enjoy the emotionally driven games like TLoU or Life is Strange. I can accept everything, but I do not need to play things I don't like. For me it's that easy. I don't like something, I don't support it. Then I just move on to the next dissappointment. That's why I find these discussions to be so utterly dangerous. Small groups of people can ruin stuff for quite big group of people. And I will not congratulate them for that.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
She can but doesn't due to plot reasons. She hums and grunts and gasps, but she doesn't talk.
A Link to the Past
Banned
No, it's just people criticizing stuff they don't like. It's not a cabal of people trying to take your games away. Video games are quite possibly at their most creative they have ever been.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
That is to be seen. I worry for the worst.
Sheriff_Battlesnake
Banned
I think people just get sensitive because they feel like people are acting like they are wrong for liking it. Or against the progressive movement. So people get defensive.
Its just a hot button issue with a lot of aggression behind it. But I'm at least glad we're talking about all of it.