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[elrechazado]

The iPhone is the only credible device to use anymore. I

classic

 

[davepoobond]

Once again. Pages upon pages of discussion of what Nintendo are doing wrong or could do better.

EA and Nintendo seem to be doing quite well software wise and Nintendo is doing well hardware wise.

What are their competitors doing wrong? Anyone without an agenda or bias like to have a crack at that?

nintendo is paying them to do bad

 

[perfectchaos007]

Here's why Nintendo should drop the price of their system if they practice what they preach.

1. In the beginning they said Wii was not going to directly compete with PS3 or 360 because they would be reaching different demographics

2. The Wii outsold both PS3 and 360 this month, but this should be irrelivant if the Wii isn't competing directly against them. The Wii is competing against itself year on year in sales and right now the Wii is like 50% down from last year in the US ( I don't know the exact percentage )

So if Nintendo doesn't drop the price, that means they are satisfied by just outselling the other systems even though they claimed they weren't competing against them. However, if they still believe they aren't in direct competition they have to cut the price. 250K units sold from a system that is used to selling upwards of 600K each month is a huge indication of a need of a price drop. I already have a Wii, but I'm really hoping Nintendo does the right thing and drops the price to $199 before Christmas

 

[boiled goose]

Here's why Nintendo should drop the price of their system if they practice what they preach.

1. In the beginning they said Wii was not going to directly compete with PS3 or 360 because they would be reaching different demographics

2. The Wii outsold both PS3 and 360 this month, but this should be irrelivant if the Wii isn't competing directly against them. The Wii is competing against itself year on year in sales and right now the Wii is like 50% down from last year in the US ( I don't know the exact percentage )

So if Nintendo doesn't drop the price, that means they are satisfied by just outselling the other systems even though they claimed they weren't competing against them. However, if they still believe they aren't in direct competition they have to cut the price. 250K units sold from a system that is used to selling upwards of 600K each month is a huge indication of a need of a price drop. I already have a Wii, but I'm really hoping Nintendo does the right thing and drops the price to $199 before Christmas

Iwata: (laughs)

Do you honestly cares Nintendo cares about some arbitrary competitions?
Nintendo cares about: MONEY. money now and money later.

 

[Fedos]

What's interesting to me in Nintendo's case is that last year this time they were outselling both the 360 and PS3 combined. And now the HD consoles are outselling the Wii (at least for this month) with the 360 nipping at its heels. I don't think with what we've witnessed of Wii sales as of late that you can really discount the possiblity of the 360 outselling the Wii in any given month. Last year for someone to posit that the 360 would even be selling anywhere near comparable to the Wii would incur ridicule, you'd be laughed at for saying as such. It was unthinkable. But just a year later here we are. It's certainly made for more interesting NPD results in the coming months and worldwide trends in the gaming landscape.

 

[Slavik81]

Iwata: (laughs)

Do you honestly cares Nintendo cares about some arbitrary competitions?
Nintendo cares about: MONEY. money now and money later.

Their sales have been declining significantly in both relative and absolute terms...
It isn't that the PS3/360 are gaining marketshare. It's that Nintendo's not making as much money as they used to.

And like you said, that is something they care about.

 

[duk]

i bet ninty will drop prices next spring to 199 and sales will go through the roof again

 

[vanguardian1]

i bet ninty will drop prices next spring to 199 and sales will go through the roof again

Call me crazy, but I think a drop of $50 would give a bit of a boost, but not "through the roof" as it has been.

$100 might do it though.

 

[Haunted]

nintendo is paying them to do bad

:lol

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

PS3 passes 8 million.

This is the first month Wii's userbase has grown least as a percentage of previous month's userbase. Wii increased 1.2% to PS3's 1.3% and X360's 1.5%.

System: Average weeks ownership (Average purchase date)
Wii: 64.8 (May 5, 2008)
PS3: 69.9 (March 30, 2008)
X360: 91.4 (November 1, 2007)

For what its worth, it's looking like total Wii ownership will pass X360 in November.

Do you think they'd permanently lower their profits just to meet their "pretty high* shipment forecast?

If it helps grow their userbase significantly quicker, it's not a loss they won't make up. Hell, they could be finding themselves in a place where underutilizing their production capacities becomes inefficient.

A little confused by the gloom and doom in the nintendo camp..

'The wii is no longer absolutely fucking trouncing the competition! We're only ahead of the nearest competitor by 25%! The end is nigh!'

No, but if they've maintained the same price for nearly 3 years and sales are at half the level they used to be, it might be time for a bit of stimulus.

For one thing a 2D Mario ALWAYS out-sells a 3D Mario, ALWAYS.

This is too broad. We've never seen how a new 2D Mario and new 3D Mario perform on the same platform. I'm pretty sure the portable port of Super Mario 64 has outperformed the portable ports of the 2D Marios--though again, on different systems.

Wait, the 360 has sold "only" 25,44% more consoles then the Xbox1 in the USA in the same time? I would have imagined a much bigger difference.

Mostly a perception thing. Beside a later-launching PS3 and a not-HD Wii, it appears to be sitting much higher than Xbox did next to the earlier-launching-with-similar-games PS2.

Please point out any math mistake

Not so much a math mistake as a problem with the concept. Comparing average sales over 33 month and 45 month periods doesn't compare equally, because it doesn't give you the same ratio of month types. The 33 month ones for systems launching in Q4 gives a higher ratio of Decembers to Aprils than the 45 month one will. Thus, even given completely flat sales year over year, the 33 month period could appear to have a better average.

That said, your basic point that part of the impressive thing with X360 is that its sales have remained solid or improved over time seems to be right.

The recession isn't to blame for the poor sales; people just don't want to be chained to the wall of their houses by the power cords of home consoles anymore, nor do they want to carry toys around with them instead.

The iPhone is the only credible device to use anymore. Ironically, people will probably choose game centers and arcades as an alternative before considering antiquities like home consoles again.

Which fully explains why consoles as a whole are still selling better than almost ever before. Before X360/PS3/Wii I'm not sure the three leading home consoles ever sold 5 million from January-July, let alone 6 million.

 

[Gadfly]

What's interesting to me in Nintendo's case is that last year this time they were outselling both the 360 and PS3 combined. And now the HD consoles are outselling the Wii (at least for this month) with the 360 nipping at its heels. I don't think with what we've witnessed of Wii sales as of late that you can really discount the possiblity of the 360 outselling the Wii in any given month. Last year for someone to posit that the 360 would even be selling anywhere near comparable to the Wii would incur ridicule, you'd be laughed at for saying as such. It was unthinkable. But just a year later here we are. It's certainly made for more interesting NPD results in the coming months and worldwide trends in the gaming landscape.

In all fairness, nobody could tell what the real demand for Wii would be once supply has met or exceeded the demand.

 

[Koren]

It isn't that the PS3/360 are gaining marketshare. It's that Nintendo's not making as much money as they used to.

That's true, but the fact that the increased number of console sold due to price drop would compensate the lower margin on each has yet to be proved (my personnal belief is it would, but still, several hardware makers representative said that price drops have to be played carefully because it's not always a economical benefit).

I'd like to see a drop to 199 before end of year, though.

 

[smoothie_splash]

If nintendo was to reduce the Wii price to $199 then it would be comparable to the DSi price at $169. Consumers might look at these two price points and perceive the DSi as a portable that is too expensive when compared with the Wii technology (even though we all know it is the Wii that is overpriced when you take into account all the hidden extras). I know the the 360 can be cheaper than the Wii, but it might be more relevant if the same company pitches both its products at a similar price point.

Bundles are the way forward for nintendo.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If nintendo was to reduce the Wii price to $199 then it would be comparable to the DSi price at $169. Consumers might look at these two price points and perceive the DSi as a portable that is too expensive when compared with the Wii technology (even though we all know it is the Wii that is overpriced when you take into account all the hidden extras). I know the the 360 can be cheaper than the Wii, but it might be more relevant if the same company pitches both its products at a similar price point.

A non-issue. Some people thought it would be a problem when GBASP and GCN were the same $99 price in late 2003, but instead they both had their best years.

 

[Sadist]

Bit oftopic, but I'm looking for an article which stated that a certain percentage of PS2 owners bought a Wii. But I can't find the article anymore, if someone could help me out? Thanks.

Ontopic, it's a real slow month. Meh.

 

[vanguardian1]

Bit oftopic, but I'm looking for an article which stated that a certain percentage of PS2 owners bought a Wii. But I can't find the article anymore, if someone could help me out? Thanks.

Ontopic, it's a real slow month. Meh.

It was an NPD survey early-mid last year IIRC, if that helps at all. The only other fact i can remember from it is either 70 or 72% of Wii owners in the survey were also PS2 owners (or previous owners).

Sorry I can't help more, but hopefully that helps a bit.

 

[Sadist]

It was an NPD survey early-mid last year IIRC, if that helps at all. The only other fact i can remember from it is either 70 or 72% of Wii owners in the survey were also PS2 owners (or previous owners).

Sorry I can't help more, but hopefully that helps a bit.

Yeah, remembered the 72% remark, but I can't seem to find the link. It bothers me, thanks for your help

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Why would a price cut boost sales? The Wii is falling down currently to "normal" console sales levels. You can't boost it back to absurd levels through normal practices because it wasn't selling for normal reasons in the first place.

 

[RBH]

Top 20 posted yet?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24851

Glad to see Tiger Woods 10 and Punch-Out hold up.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Why would a price cut boost sales? The Wii is falling down currently to "normal" console sales levels. You can't boost it back to absurd levels through normal practices because it wasn't selling for normal reasons in the first place.

That doesn't make price irrelevant, though. A $400 Wii would almost certainly not have sold as much as it has so far, and a $150 Wii would almost certainly have sold more (assuming the supply is there).

 

[Sadist]

Bit oftopic, but I'm looking for an article which stated that a certain percentage of PS2 owners bought a Wii. But I can't find the article anymore, if someone could help me out? Thanks.

No one can help me with this one?

 

[charlequin]

I acknowledged all of that in my post. But you ignored the fact that a software strategy, if successful, can achieve all of those things at a higher profit margin.

That's such a huge "if" that I'm not really willing to credit it much, though. Nintendo is, as far as I can tell, the only company who has ever succeeded in debuting a software lineup so inherently impressive that it could sell their system to capacity without relying on any other positioning tools, and even so they have yet to extend this strategy effectively beyond two or three pieces of software on any given platform.

I agree that Nintendo was right to price the Wii where they did, and to pack in Wii Sports, and to avoid dropping the price until now. But I don't think even Nintendo should make decisions about their console's future from a standpoint of "well, we can avoid doing X as long as we continue to develop new software every year that's as brilliant as Wii Sports and Wii Fit, two of the most brilliant game console software products of all time." :lol

The videogame industry is not the pharmaceutical industry. You can't always produce growth consistently to please your stockholders.

Sure. I don't disagree (and I certainly agree with you about the high-margin product trap.) But my claim is that this suggests that a more aggressive stance of taking diverse risks is beneficial to any company operating in this space. Nintendo's wild successes have been in areas where they took huge risks, and their unique talent as an organization is to hedge risks quite effectively -- but despite these two facts, outside of their specific disruption/blue ocean strategizing Nintendo have continued to behave as an extremely conservative organization. My argument in these discussions has always been that Nintendo, due to their success and their skill at making efficient use of their resources, could afford to be taking risks in a variety of areas and that doing so might help them avoid this "eggs in one basket" problem where a single miscalculation on their part about their first-party software lineup can tank their expectations for an entire year.

Once again. Pages upon pages of discussion of what Nintendo are doing wrong or could do better.

And just like last time, it's followed by a pointless post by you baselessly accusing people of "bias" for discussing it. :lol

The fact is that the failure of the HD systems is boring because we already know that they've failed and why; the question of whether Nintendo will leverage their success into more and greater success, or lose momentum and see their great success turn into mediocre performance is still undecided and therefore far more interesting to debate.

Why would a price cut boost sales?

Because the price/demand curve for every console features people who consider it a worthwhile purchase for $X price but not for $X + Y price, so lopping $Y off the price gets all the people in that category to start buying the system.

 

[Chumly]

Why would a price cut boost sales? The Wii is falling down currently to "normal" console sales levels. You can't boost it back to absurd levels through normal practices because it wasn't selling for normal reasons in the first place.

Ok this has been posted a bunch of times and its just as stupid every time. Why would ANY price cut on ANY console boost sales??? I mean why isnt the PS3 still at 600$ Its not like it would help boost the sales of the platform so why isnt it still 600$???

Surprisingly when you cut the price of a console you find a whole lot more people that find it "worthwhile" to buy it. The Wii might not go back to "absurd" levels but it would certainly boost sales (not just short term either) just like how the 360 has had continual improvement in sales due to the arcade.

 

[Kilrogg]

Sure. I don't disagree (and I certainly agree with you about the high-margin product trap.) But my claim is that this suggests that a more aggressive stance of taking diverse risks is beneficial to any company operating in this space. Nintendo's wild successes have been in areas where they took huge risks, and their unique talent as an organization is to hedge risks quite effectively -- but despite these two facts, outside of their specific disruption/blue ocean strategizing Nintendo have continued to behave as an extremely conservative organization. My argument in these discussions has always been that Nintendo, due to their success and their skill at making efficient use of their resources, could afford to be taking risks in a variety of areas and that doing so might help them avoid this "eggs in one basket" problem where a single miscalculation on their part about their first-party software lineup can tank their expectations for an entire year.

Now we're talking. I really can't come up with a convincing analysis as to why they keep acting conservatively. Other than "they must believe that the upsides outweigh the downsides". I don't know if they're right or wrong. I believe they could do just a little bit more, focusing on a few other key third-party titles (as they've done with MH3), but other than that, I'm clueless. Or they want to amass resources for the Wii's successor. I really don't know.

 

[charlequin]

I really don't know.

My own personal theory mostly comes down to institutional memory plus aggressive internal promotion. A lot of the things I think Nintendo should be doing (actively developing games in the West and working with Western 3PPs, creating a skunkworks of many small internal teams that work on producing a steady flow of unusual software that may not fit either normal "gamer" expectations or the mold of "traditional" big Nintendo releases, working with Japanese 3PPs to create "standout" titles that draw others to the system) aren't just things you can do, but efforts that would require significant structural reorganization (which might lead to a lack of interest in pursuing them despite their potential benefits.) And with Iwata at the helm, there's an implicit idea that the "chosen successor" is continuing much of what Nintendo has stood for in the past (both good and, unfortunately, sometimes bad), unlike other major game companies that have seen shakeups of their market strategy follow changes in top-level personnel.

What I can't explain is why NoA seems so useless these days compared to the once infamously incompetent NoE.

 

[Kilrogg]

My own personal theory mostly comes down to institutional memory plus aggressive internal promotion. A lot of the things I think Nintendo should be doing (actively developing games in the West and working with Western 3PPs, creating a skunkworks of many small internal teams that work on producing a steady flow of unusual software that may not fit either normal "gamer" expectations or the mold of "traditional" big Nintendo releases, working with Japanese 3PPs to create "standout" titles that draw others to the system) aren't just things you can do, but efforts that would require significant structural reorganization (which might lead to a lack of interest in pursuing them despite their potential benefits.) And with Iwata at the helm, there's an implicit idea that the "chosen successor" is continuing much of what Nintendo has stood for in the past (both good and, unfortunately, sometimes bad), unlike other major game companies that have seen shakeups of their market strategy follow changes in top-level personnel.

What I can't explain is why NoA seems so useless these days compared to the once infamously incompetent NoE.

So there's a bit of company history and company philosophy involved... is what you're saying, right? I think that these questions delve too much into the inside of Nintendo for us casual observers to devise a convincing theory, but I pretty much agree you, if you said what I think you said.

As for NoA, well, I don't know. I'm not American, for starters.

 

[charlequin]

So there's a bit of company history and company philosophy involved... is what you're saying, right?

Basically, yeah.

I think that these questions delve too much into the inside of Nintendo for us casual observers to devise a convincing theory, but I pretty much agree you, if you said what I think you said.

Yeah, to a degree I'm blowing smoke here, but I don't think I'm liable to go broke betting on "inertia" as the cause of illogical behavior any time soon. :lol

 

[ultim8p00]

No, it's not. And starting in September they'll be down in year on year comparisons (they are flat now). Unless MS's marketing will make wonders advertising ODST/FM3 and what not.

Uhhh...isn't the 360 the only console to have a yoy increase?

 

[Kilrogg]

Yeah, to a degree I'm blowing smoke here, but I don't think I'm liable to go broke betting on "inertia" as the cause of illogical behavior any time soon. :lol

Or so you think.

 

[donny2112]

I'd say that the plan was to release WSR weeks to months away from the day Sony and Microsoft unveiled their controllers, whether that meant 2008 or later.

The plan was to release it last Fall in Japan. That got delayed due to hardware difficulties with the Motion+ attachment. Nintendo never meant for Wii Music and AC to carry Wii last Fall in Japan. It probably would've come out in the U.S. last Fall or shortly thereafter, as well.

The last time I heard it was around $10,000 a year.

Per month, I believe.

Edit:
Actual

Estimated

 

[Jokeropia]

Yeah, remembered the 72% remark, but I can't seem to find the link. It bothers me, thanks for your help

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=331691

Post 20.

 

[DangerousDave]

Wait, wait, wait...

So the PS3 is selling better than 360 (worldwide) if we line the launch dates??? Even with the difference of price?

 

[Psychotext]

So the PS3 is selling better than 360 (worldwide) if we line the launch dates??? Even with the difference of price?

The graph really isn't that hard to read.

 

[DangerousDave]

The graph really isn't that hard to read.

Yeah, I know, but also I'm reading in a lot of other threads that the PS3 is doomed. Probably is because almost all comparitions of sales is only US, instead of worldwide.

 

[SickBoy]

Actual

My god... I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but the Wii balance board about to surpass PS3 as a "platform"? Wow.

 

[markatisu]

Yeah, I know, but also I'm reading in a lot of other threads that the PS3 is doomed. Probably is because almost all comparitions of sales is only US, instead of worldwide.

People like to downplay Japan but its pretty much the sole reason the PS3 is on par with the 360 worldwide. MS utter failure to grab a decent hold in that region is what will always keep them from "winning" any generation

 

[Schrade]

Wait, wait, wait...

So the PS3 is selling better than 360 (worldwide) if we line the launch dates??? Even with the difference of price?

Also keep in mind that the PS3 has 3 other competitors (PS2, Xbox 360 and Wii) while the 360 only had the PS2 as a competitor for a year before the Wii and the PS3 came out.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah, I know, but also I'm reading in a lot of other threads that the PS3 is doomed. Probably is because almost all comparitions of sales is only US, instead of worldwide.

Well, usually when people say the PS3 is doomed, they're doing a few things:

1) Comparing it to the market leader.
2) Comparing it to the PS2.
3) Looking at how much money it's losing.
4) Comparing the software sales to the 360's.
5) Not launch-aligning the numbers.
6) Looking at one particular region.
7) Pouring salt in the PS3 fan's wound because they cry so delightfully.

The PS3 isn't doomed, but it is the 3rd place system, and it's enjoying everything that comes with that.

 

[Touchdown]

Starfy in top 20

 

[tenten]

I don't buy that 360 vs ps3 chart.

Please do a aligned launch date US only 360 vs ps3.
The ps3 beats the 360 by around 2 million in Japan

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't buy that 360 vs ps3 chart.

Please do a aligned launch date US only 360 vs ps3.
The ps3 beats the 360 by around 2 million in Japan

You don't buy a donny chart? Dude, it's donny.

 

[tenten]

You don't buy a donny chart? Dude, it's donny.

Oops, sorry, never mind then. Don't want to piss off any mods.

I guess no ps3 price drop is needed then. 360 will be third ww this gen.

 

[elrechazado]

Oops, sorry, never mind then. Don't want to piss off any mods.

I guess no ps3 price drop is needed then. 360 will be third ww this gen.

:lol

lolwut

 

[grandjedi6]

I don't buy that 360 vs ps3 chart.

Please do a aligned launch date US only 360 vs ps3.
The ps3 beats the 360 by around 2 million in Japan

You don't buy his chart so you want him to make another chart instead? :lol

 

[tenten]

You don't buy his chart so you want him to make another chart instead? :lol

That's cause the US data can be found on the NPD. Wouldn't that be better than world wide "estimated" data?

 

[MikeE21286]

wow, I actually never would have guessed the PS3 is selling at a faster rate than the 360 did.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

That's cause the US data can be found on the NPD. Wouldn't that be better than world wide "estimated" data?

You are aware NPD data is partially estimated as well, right?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Oops, sorry, never mind then. Don't want to piss off any mods.

I guess no ps3 price drop is needed then. 360 will be third ww this gen.

So actually you don't understand charts or mathematics at all then.

 

[grandjedi6]

Oops, sorry, never mind then. Don't want to piss off any mods.

I guess no ps3 price drop is needed then. 360 will be third ww this gen.

yah for random jumps in logic!

wow, I actually never would have guessed the PS3 is selling at a faster rate than the 360 did.

Well launch-aligned data is misleading in this context. Not only is the 360 obviously missing its "extra year" but the PS3's years didn't occur in the same context as the comparative 360 years did

That's cause the US data can be found on the NPD. Wouldn't that be better than world wide "estimated" data?

Using worldwide estimates is better than using just NPD US data when we are talking about Worldwide sales, obviously

 

[tenten]

Using worldwide estimates is better than using just NPD US data when we are talking about Worldwide sales, obviously

I'm just wondering what sources we have to estimate ww sales.
NPD can estimate the US, and there are estimates in Japan right? how about rest of the world?