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[Welfare]

Do we know ps3, wii and 360 numbers?

360 is 310k I believe.

 

[Endo Punk]

I don't know whether Sony underestimated or they thought it wasn't worth losing profit. I think the new year will show if Sony played it right or not. I mean if they are still selling better Jan, Feb, March then I guess it makes sense they don't want to to go toe to toe with MS in Nov/Dec. Of course the momentum and word of mouth may well have shifted to MS favor. Again the new year will tell.

 

[liger05]

360 has to get some major props. The console just keeps on trucking.

 

[RdN]

Pretty dramatic turnaround after Sept.+Oct.'s big gains.

Pretty impressive for the Xbone.

 

[SlipperyMoose]

360 is 310k I believe.

So 360 > Wii U? Damn that is really crazy. That console will be 10 years old this time next year. I wonder what LTD ps3 and 360 are they have to be 90 million or close I would think.

 

[Nightengale]

If bombs determined the shut-down of studios, WWS would've closed shop a long-time ago, because Yoshida said they have a hit/profitability ratio of 4 in 10. That means 6 out of 10 games are financially unsuccessful, but the 4 games that are successful more than makes up for the losses in the 6.

So, while DC may have bombed, not everything is taken from a siloed perspective.

 

[Chobel]

I don't know whether Sony underestimated or they thought it wasn't worth losing profit. I think the new year will show if Sony played it right or not. I mean if they are still selling better Jan, Feb, March then I guess it makes sense they don't want to to go toe to toe with MS in Nov/Dec. Of course the momentum and word of mouth may well have shifted to MS favor. Again the new year will tell.

It's just SCEA being SCEA. In UK, SCEE are really competitive with the pricing and the bundling of PS4.

 

[Ty4on]

cents trente neuf ?

Oui! C'est une phrase!

Spoiler

I'd love to phrase (pun not intended...) that better than a one year old, but I am sarcastic.

 

[immortal-joe]

I don't know whether Sony underestimated or they thought it wasn't worth losing profit. I think the new year will show if Sony played it right or not. I mean if they are still selling better Jan, Feb, March then I guess it makes sense they don't want to to go toe to toe with MS in Nov/Dec. Of course the momentum and word of mouth may well have shifted to MS favor. Again the new year will tell.

It will. That's my take on it.

 

[Endo Punk]

It's just SCEA being SCEA. In UK, SCEE are really competitive with the pricing and the bundling of PS4.

Yep, £350 with TLOU, FC4 and GTAV. I already own a PS4 and the deal makes me want to buy another one.

 

[El-Pistolero]

Pretty impressive for the Xbone.

The graph is for percentages, so unless read carefully, it could be misleading. With November, MS basically compensated for the gap of the previous two months combined (September and October).

 

[truth411]

Smaller games dont shift consoles and with that said X1 while not as strong as the PS4 indie lineup the X1 still has some notable gems such as Ori, cuphead,screamride,lifeless planet, space engineers,inside(timed,from the makers of limbo) etc. Price,advertising, how diverse the game portfolio is and 1st + 3rd blockbusters is what shifts consoles.

In terms of blockbusters sony seem more spread out with the order and bloodbourne coming in Q1, no mans sky coming in Q2 and uncharted for the fall, Talking from a business point a view Is sonys line up really superior? , First you have bloodboune people love it here and if your into dark souls mixed with god of war? style games you will love this, but dark souls sold 1.9 mill on a much larger ps3 install base and darks souls 2 sold 1mill, these dark themed games are just not as commercial as your action/fps/racing games. MLB will probably sell inline with the rest of series about 500-600 thousand The order shares a darker them but is a TPS, though recent reports are not the most positive, I still think it will just surpass the 1 mill, no mans sky looks like an original game that you would normally find on the PC I think it will sell ok but under the 2 previous games, Rachet and clank if good could quite easily be a multi million seller for sony however the previous entrys on PS3 have been selling about 600,000 I will be surprised if it surpasses 1 mill on PS4 and uncharted 4 will probably move 4-5mill sonys killer app, I dont when street fighter is coming but I see it selling over 2 mill on PS4. Looking at sony's blockbuster portfolios diversity you have 2 TPS's,1 platformer, 1 Action,a baseball game, one hippie/GOG space sim, and a fighter, pretty diverse.

On the MS side we have fable coming around Q2 which I dont think will sell anything like the main series did I think it could sell around the 1-2 mill mark,Quantum break I think will sell very well considering the more broader appeal then alan wake, I think around 2 mill, it could also come out in Q2 all we know is that its coming in 2015 and its been in development a long time. In fall for x1 we have forza 6(not confirmed, but come on we know its coming) and halo 5 now this is where MS will really take a lot in the sales, based on the both games history I think its likely each will be selling 4-5 mill each. AS for tomb raider ? who knows I see it doing similar to the first (in respect to the install base) about 1mill. Looking at MS's blockbuster portfolios diversity we have - 3 action(with widely different themes and play mechanics), 1 racer and 1 fps, so in terms of diversity I would say MS is just behind compared to sonys line up.

Basing this on previous sales in there past games Both lines ups seem pretty even in terms of sales and brand power, sony has more games however with Microsoft they have forza and halo in the fall. Both line ups even each other out in terms of impact they will have.
To say one company has an advantage over the other for next year based on what we know is just false, when talking about sales and the best game line up people need to take there own personal opinions out of it, look at previews and reports of upcoming games and look at how previous entrys of the same games have done and how they effected console sales.
I apologize if I have missed any games out.

I think the issue is how is M.S. going to maintain momentum, there fighting an uphill battle. The first half of 2015 is heavily stacked in Sony's favor from a Game lineup perspective, The Order, Bloodborne, MLB, Until Dawn and RatchetnClank. That's just Retail not too mention tons of indie support that M.S. lacks to fill the gaps because of that silly parity clause. They only game I think M.S. has the first half of 2015 is fable i think. (Could be wrong). If the price goes back up to normal, their sales are going to collapse. If I were M.S. I would ge rid of the parity clause and make the price permanent without a Game bundled in.

 

[KillerMan91]

It will. That's my take on it.

First we have to see December gap (which could be smaller as price cuts are always frontloaded) and then we have to see where MS prices Xbone after the holiday season. PS3 basically tied X360 during holiday season 2009 but starting January X360 started to outsell it again monthly with healthy gap. Momentum doesn't always shift with couple of good months.

 

[El-Pistolero]

I like the optimism, DC fans. Long legs or not I'm sure it didn't meet expectations. Sony were probably hoping the success of DC would give PD more time to work on GT7. I don't know how DC can be considered successful by any metric. I hate to say it but Evolution probably wont be around this time next year. They are right about one thing though, this is very embarrassing from a studio with such a legacy and a 1 year delay for DC.

LBP bombing isn't a surprise. I can't tell the sequels apart so I doubt the mass market could either, this is one mascot that has worn out his welcome. Take your pals and vamoose.

Neither was Forza Horizon 2, by that metric. I think Evolution will stay around. Word of mouth will do good for this game...

 

[El-Pistolero]

I don't know whether Sony underestimated or they thought it wasn't worth losing profit. I think the new year will show if Sony played it right or not. I mean if they are still selling better Jan, Feb, March then I guess it makes sense they don't want to to go toe to toe with MS in Nov/Dec. Of course the momentum and word of mouth may well have shifted to MS favor. Again the new year will tell.

The are leading worldwide by a huge margin, so they must have chosen profitability over market share...which is the only sane decision they could have taken. Sony is the underdog in the US, so even a tie would be a victory for them, as there is no freaking chance they will lose the rest of the world.

 

[Ty4on]

oui you? Tu as trés proche, deux cent quarante.

D'accord. J'ai voulu écrire quarante parce que soixante-onze n'est pas très exact.
Apologize if it's too broken :/
Double post because reasons.
Edit: More reasons, et onze? Why? You're otherwise quite straight forward.

 

[Faustek]

I knew MM would survive the Tearaway bomb

12 people. 12 people worked on that bomb.
Perspective is a good thing.

 

[truth411]

It will. That's my take on it.

What do you think will happen when the price goes back up on January 4th? Not to mention Sony's killer first half 2015 lineup + far better indie support.. M.S. has just fable during that time and no where near the indie support Sony has to fill the gaps.

 

[orochi91]

How is SCEE able to offer compelling holiday deals, but not SCEA?

Why is only SCEA concerned with maximizing profitability at $399?

 

[immortal-joe]

First we have to see December gap (which could be smaller as price cuts are always frontloaded) and then we have to see where MS prices Xbone after the holiday season. PS3 basically tied X360 during holiday season 2009 but starting January X360 started to outsell it again monthly with healthy gap. Momentum doesn't always shift with couple of good months.

MS have been throwing so many things and seeing what sticks, with each throw being more aggressive (and desperate) than the last. They got it to stick, now they'll keep throwing it. I know I'm making it sound too simple, but my point is the momentum will shift now.

Edit:

What do you think will happen when the price goes back up on January 4th? Not to mention Sony's killer first half 2015 lineup + far better indie support.. M.S. has just fable during that time and no where near the indie support Sony has to fill the gaps.

Sorry, haven't been following every page of the thread, but was that confirmed?

 

[Curufinwe]

Yep, £350 with TLOU, FC4 and GTAV.

How is SCEE able to offer compelling holiday deals, but not SCEA?

Why is only SCEA concerned with maximizing profitability at $399?

That's US $550. Take out 20% VAT and it's still $440.

SCEE's holiday deals aren't any better value than SCEA's. Every territory is about maximizing profitability.

 

[hawk2025]

12 people. 12 people worked on that bomb.
Perspective is a good thing.

...hence why I knew MM would survive it. It was never in question.

 

[Nightengale]

MS have been throwing so many things and seeing what sticks, with each throw being more aggressive (and desperate) than the last. They got it to stick, now they'll keep throwing it. I know I'm making it sound too simple, but my point is the momentum will shift now.

That's on the assumption Sony's going to not do anything.

Sorry, haven't been following every page of the thread, but was that confirmed?

No.

 

[Endo Punk]

That's US $550. Take out 20% VAT and it's still $440.

Yep Im well aware pricing sucks in uk compared to the states, has always been that way and probably always will. For UK it's a good offer because the console alone costs 350.

 

[Welfare]

So 360 > Wii U? Damn that is really crazy. That console will be 10 years old this time next year. I wonder what LTD ps3 and 360 are they have to be 90 million or close I would think.

Could we say the 360 is to Wii U as PS2 was to PS3? Even just a little?

Last official shipment data for the 360 was 84 million back on June 4 of this year. Should be above 85 million now. Maybe closer to 86 million.

PS3... I have no idea.

 

[Curufinwe]

Yep Im well aware pricing sucks in uk compared to the states, has always been that way and probably always will. For UK it's a good offer because the console alone costs 350.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BE4HOIM/

309 on Amazon.

 

[Endo Punk]

...hence why I knew MM would survive it. It was never in question.

Sony is weird in that if a game is a critical and awards darling they would let the fact the game bombed not affect the studio any way. A vanity project, they did that with both ICO and SotC last gen. Its when a game doesn't have sales or good reception then you know something is going to happen.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BE4HOIM/

309 on Amazon.

Nicee.

 

[freefornow]

Could we say the 360 is to Wii U as PS2 was to PS3? Even just a little?

Last official shipment data for the 360 was 84 million back on June 4 of this year. Should be above 85 million now. Maybe closer to 86 million.

PS3... I have no idea.

MS next strategy (because they can afford it), Trade in your 360 and get a XBO for $xxx.
Might help to offset the perceived early 2015 game drought.

 

[RayMaker]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BE4HOIM/

309 on Amazon.

holy shit
looks like a pricing error

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KJFDOYA/

x1 with asscreeds is the same price to :0

 

[KillerMan91]

How is SCEE able to offer compelling holiday deals, but not SCEA?

Why is only SCEA concerned with maximizing profitability at $399?

Eh. I would say it's pretty similar to US when it comes to deals in most of Europe. PS4 has had some deals but Xbone has had generally far better deals. It just doesn't matter that much as it's basically PS2 vs original Xbox situation when it comes to sales in most of Europe. UK is only place where SCEE has somewhat matched Xbone deals as there is some actual competition in UK.

 

[truth411]

That's on the assumption Sony's going to not do anything.



No.

On the contrary, Their official position is that this is a temporary Price cut until January 3rd. They've been straight forward about that. The idea that the price cut will be permanent is 100% pure (though logical) speculation.

 

[stryke]

On the contrary, Their official position is that this is a temporary Price cut until January 3rd. They've been straight forward about that. The idea that the price cut will be permanent is 100% pure (though logical) speculation.

Even if Microsoft intends to jack the price back up, I'm not sure how retailers are going to tolerate that.

 

[Endo Punk]

The only reason the XB1 price cut would not be permanent is because it actually is hurting profit. I think its crazy to put the price back up after these sales figures but we will see.

 

[Chobel]

How is SCEE able to offer compelling holiday deals, but not SCEA?

Why is only SCEA concerned with maximizing profitability at $399?

What I am more interested in knowing is why SCEA don't do bundles like SCEE. In Europe, PS4 had all kind of bundles: FC4 bundle, DC bundle, TLoU bundle, Two controllers bundle...etc, In US only two bundles: Destiny bundle and GTAV+TLoU bundle (for like one week).

 

[truth411]

Even if Microsoft intends to jack the price back up, I'm not sure how retailers are going to tolerate that.

??? Am I missing something? I'd imagine there sell through numbers will be really good November and December. Retailers aren't going to drop the X1.

 

[Endo Punk]

What I am more interested in knowing is why SCEA don't do bundles like SCEE. In Europe, PS4 had all kind of bundles: FC4 bundle, DC bundle, TLoU bundle, Two controllers bundle...etc, In US only two bundles: Destiny bundle and GTAV+TLoU bundle (for like one week).

I believe Andrew House once said that the NA market does not react well to multiple sku's so they don't do it as heavily as in Europe.

 

[xxracerxx]

What I am more interested in knowing is why SCEA don't do bundles like SCEE. In Europe, PS4 had all kind of bundles: FC4 bundle, DC bundle, TLoU bundle, Two controllers bundle...etc, In US only two bundles: Destiny bundle and GTAV+TLoU bundle (for like one week).

There was also a Lego Batman/LBP3 bundle, a TLoU bundle in June or July

 

[psn]

That's US $550. Take out 20% VAT and it's still $440.

SCEE's holiday deals aren't any better value than SCEA's. Every territory is about maximizing profitability.

You can't calculate it like that.

The ps4 in the US is 399$
The ps4 in Europe is 399€.

Games are 59$ to 69$,
Games here 59€ to 69€.


They calculate 1€ = 1$.

If you compare them now, you can't convert the currency because it would falsify the result, even though the euro is worth more than a dollar.

It's two free games, not more, not less.

 

[stryke]

??? Am I missing something? I'd imagine there sell through numbers will be really good November and December. Retailers aren't going to drop the X1.

I'm not saying they're going to drop it. If they see sales are sluggish after the return to original pricing they may have to take the hit themselves.

 

[Chobel]

I believe Andrew House once said that the NA market does not react well to multiple sku'sso they don't do it as heavily as in Europe.

Xbox One bundles are the proof that Andrew House is wrong. You just need to keep the non-main bundles in limited numbers.

 

[Endo Punk]

Xbox One bundles are the proof that Andrew House is wrong. You just need to keep the non-main bundles in limited numbers.

Im sure it was price that helped it sell well not multiple sku's. Sony did have the TLOU/GTAV and Batman/LBP3 family bundle.

 

[2thepoint]

The only reason the XB1 price cut would not be permanent is because it actually is hurting profit. I think its crazy to put the price back up after these sales figures but we will see.

Congrats to Microsoft, they deserved it with all the promotions etc.

But, I cannot fathom how they could justify keeping the price that low permanently.

The losses would be horrendous and the shareholders would be baying for blood at the Xbox division.

 

[Chobel]

There was also a Lego Batman/LBP3 bundle, a TLoU bundle in June or July

There is no TLoU bundle in US, though there's Lego Batman/LBP3 bundle which I forgot about. Still that doesn't change my point, the number of bundles is really small compared to what's in Europe.

 

[Nightengale]

Xbox One bundles are the proof that Andrew House is wrong. You just need to keep the non-main bundles in limited numbers.

MS's bundle approach is different from Sony's bundle approach though.

MS essentially 'deleted' its non-bundle SKU, and replaced it with the ACU SKU. And the CoD SKU was their equivalent of Sony's Destiny bundle, which was limited and no longer available.

Unlike MS, Sony doesn't bundle for 'free' for extended periods of time. (well, except their latest COG bundle)

XB1's bundle strategy is largely centered around replacement of their non-bundle SKUs.

 

[EatMyFace]

How is SCEE able to offer compelling holiday deals, but not SCEA?

Why is only SCEA concerned with maximizing profitability at $399?

Value of the dollar or something is my guess.

 

[xxracerxx]

There is no TLoU bundle in US, though there's Lego Batman/LBP3 bundle which I forgot about. Still that doesn't change my point, the number of bundles is really small compared to what's in Europe.

Must be a Canada bundle but it is on Amazon.com. Weird.

 

[stryke]

I believe Andrew House once said that the NA market does not react well to multiple sku's so they don't do it as heavily as in Europe.

I seem recall he was talking about the different harddrive sizes and less features when the original PS3 SKUs were launched. Not about bundles.

Do you have a quote?

 

[Hubble]

But, I cannot fathom how they could justify keeping the price that low permanently

The losses would be horrendous and the shareholders would be baying for blood at the Xbox division.

Yea, there shareholders are going to be vying for blood when outselling their competitor by 50% for the month lol.

If they can keep this trajectory, I think MS will happily stay at $350.

 

[Endo Punk]

I seem recall he was talking about the different harddrive sizes and less features when the original PS3 SKUs were launched. Not about bundles.

Do you have a quote?

You're right, I believe he was talking about the different HDD sku's.

 

[Chobel]

Must be a Canada bundle

Not officially from Sony. It's from Raredecade, I have no idea where they got it from.

EDIT: Yep, probably from Canada.