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[SRG01]

I remember there was some kind of controversy regarding Nvidia not having the architecture needed for doing "proper" async compute, and this theory was somewhat vigorously used to prove that AMD was the only future ahead. I understand the basic principles, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand if that chart there beyond first glance accurately tells another story or not. Anyone?

The problem with Nvidia's async compute on Maxwell comes from a variety of issues: latency, scheduler, etc. There was even a test done on b3d which tested the scheduler, and showed that async compute was extremely fast provided that the scheduler was not filled to the brim. Changing the scheduler and fixing the timing/latency issues in Pascal will go a long way to improve the async compute performance compared to Maxwell.

Of course, we haven't seen anyone post any in-depth tests on the Pascal scheduler, as well as other architecture-level tests, so this is still speculation for the time being.

 

[DEO3]

As someone with a 970 that recently purchased an Acer XB271HU (1440p/G-SYNC) monitor, all I can say is holy shit, gimme one of dem 1080s. It's going to be hard to not just order the Founder's Edition on day one.

 

[digitalrelic]

As a 980 Ti owner, I am really conflicted on whether to pick up the FE or not. Seems like this has very little overclocking headroom, and the upgrade is substantial but not insane. Waiting for the 1080 Ti would mean a monumental increase in performance, but the 1080 is just so attractive.

What's so attractive about it? Don't get sucked into the hype. I just don't see why anyone with a 980 Ti would jump on board with the FE cards that have no OCing headroom. It'd be a huge waste of money IMO. You're looking at literally a handful of extra frames per second when comparing an OCed 980 Ti to a stock 1080.

Now a third party solution with better coolers that you could get some aggressive overclocking out of? I suppose I could see that, but I certainly still wouldn't call it a wise purchase. Wait for the 1080 Ti.

 

[3pic]

Both?

the one you linked

 

[Durante]

As someone with a 970 that recently purchased an Acer XB271HU (1440p/G-SYNC) monitor, all I can say is holy shit, gimme one of dem 1080s. It's going to be hard to not just order the Founder's Edition on day one.

It's evil because as a 970 owner (I'm one as well) the 1080 entices you with that long-presumed-lost 2x performance jump.

Founder's Edition is not an upgrade from an heavily OC'd 980 Ti (1450-1500Mhz).

I couldn't find any direct comparisons but it looks like with the typical OC performance on FE, you'd only be gaining ~15% performance at best.

It's a bit odd to compare a OC (1450+ MHz) which even stock-OC'd 980tis will rarely reach with a low-end OC of the 1080 FE.

Still, obviously upgrading to a FE from a high-end OC 980ti model would be silly.

 

[bj00rn_]

This whole discussion is extremely annoying since it would first need a formal description of what "proper" async compute entails, and such is basically never provided -- or if it is, it ends up "exactly like GCN does it". Ultimately, "async compute" is simply a different way of presenting work to the GPU, and whether it works or not is just a function of how well it allows the GPU to keep its execution units fed.

The problem with Nvidia's async compute on Maxwell comes from a variety of issues: latency, scheduler, etc. There was even a test done on b3d which tested the scheduler, and showed that async compute was extremely fast provided that the scheduler was not filled to the brim. Changing the scheduler and fixing the timing/latency issues in Pascal will go a long way to improve the async compute performance compared to Maxwell.

Of course, we haven't seen anyone post any in-depth tests on the Pascal scheduler, as well as other architecture-level tests, so this is still speculation for the time being.

Got it. Very interesting and it all makes sense (I always thought the "controversy" sounded rather fishy anyway, and I guess that's why I couldn't quite wrap my head around it). Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[dr_rus]

No, that's what some people started calling "triple buffering" since it's the default behavior of DirectX with 3 buffers.

As I said, that's what we used to call triple buffering in the 90s.
3 buffers, always render into the oldest as quickly as possible, always pick the newest as the new framebuffer when it's time to present a frame.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very good thing for real triple buffering to return as an easily accessible option, but presenting it like this utterly novel innovation...

Huh, ok, I was thinking that TB was always as I've said.

This is still not really a TB though as it doesn't seem to be limited to just three buffers.

 

[Kieli]

The consensus seems to be that the improvements are great, but not without precedent.

Apparently the leap from 6xx to 7xx had similar performance increases of 30% without necessarily needing the architectural improvements (source: ArsTechnica). Hence, 16nm + new architecture = 30% is to be expected. Nothing groundbreaking.

This is likely the best product we could have gotten in a scenario where there is no competition (thx, AMD).

 

[Durante]

Huh, ok, I was thinking that TB was always as I've said.

This is still not really a TB though as it doesn't seem to be limited to just three buffers.

You never need more than 3 buffers. Once you've finished rendering into one another will be outdated.

The consensus seems to be that the improvements are great, but not without precedent.

Apparently the leap from 6xx to 7xx had similar performance increases of 30% without necessarily needing the architectural improvements (source: ArsTechnica). Hence, 16nm + new architecture = 30% is to be expected. Nothing groundbreaking.

This is a 70%+ improvement though, looking at model -> same model.

 

[Bubba77]

As someone with a 970 that recently purchased an Acer XB271HU (1440p/G-SYNC) monitor, all I can say is holy shit, gimme one of dem 1080s. It's going to be hard to not just order the Founder's Edition on day one.

Just bought same monitor last week and love it. Im on sli 970s and have had great results so far with dark souls 3, dirt rally, and doom. I am building new broadwell e and pascal build next month. Cant wait for the custom cards, its going to be very hard to not click buy on the founders edition.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

This is a big fat no for me. Card still doesn't handle 4K correctly. Although the gains are not too bad on the 980Ti the price is definitely shitty.

G-sync + 980 Ti @1440p till 1080Ti hits!

I wouldn't expect to be playing 2017 titles at 4K/60 when the next Ti part hits without going SLI or turning down some settings.

You think all this GameWorks tech going into AAA games is just Nvidia being kind? They're doing it to sell more cards/make you upgrade more often/make you go SLI if you want every bell and whistle at 4K/60.

 

[Vandiger]

My target is 1080, confirmed.

 

[burney]

What's so attractive about it? Don't get sucked into the hype. I just don't see why anyone with a 980 Ti would jump on board with the FE cards that have no OCing headroom. It'd be a huge waste of money IMO. You're looking at literally a handful of extra frames per second when comparing an OCed 980 Ti to a stock 1080.

Now a third party solution with better coolers that you could get some aggressive overclocking out of? I suppose I could see that, but I certainly still wouldn't call it a wise purchase. Wait for the 1080 Ti.

Yea if you have a overclocked 980ti it seems it's not worth upgrading unless the non reference designs show some good improvements and you can sell the card for some decent money. Im actually still in my step up program for my 980ti. So depending on the non reference design I will upgrade.

 

[finalflame]

What's so attractive about it? Don't get sucked into the hype. I just don't see why anyone with a 980 Ti would jump on board with the FE cards that have no OCing headroom. It'd be a huge waste of money IMO. You're looking at literally a handful of extra frames per second when comparing an OCed 980 Ti to a stock 1080.

Now a third party solution with better coolers that you could get some aggressive overclocking out of? I suppose I could see that, but I certainly still wouldn't call it a wise purchase. Wait for the 1080 Ti.

Voice of reason right here. That might be the path I take.

 

[Razgreez]

The fact that the card is unable to hold its boost clock while sipping relatively little power is perplexing given it's a relatively small chip (which makes the cost even more ridiculous). Never was able to gain clarity but i wonder if they are perhaps being produced on the 16nmFF and not the 16nmFF+ node in which case further efficiency gains might be perceivable with the 1080ti for example

 

[draughn101]

The one you linked. I think that by now we should look at 3 fans, that one only has 2, check out the 960 at their website and see for youself: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5837

Yep that looks to be the one. Wonder why they posted a random pic of that card?

 

[Odrion]

This is a 70%+ improvement though, looking at model -> same model.

But it's the $600 dollar card that's replacing the other $600 dollar card. Yeah the idea of it being a 70% jump from the 980 is very neat but in reality everyone is comparing this to the Titan and 980ti.

also now it's $700

 

[3pic]

Yep that looks to be the one. Wonder why they posted a random pic of that card?

My thoughts exactly. Shame. Random pics everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

But it's the $600 dollar card that's replacing the other $600 dollar card. Yeah the idea of it being a 70% jump from the 980 is very neat but in reality everyone is comparing this to the Titan and 980ti.

also now it's $700

I'm comparing it to my gtx680 and I gotta say performance is looking nice.

 

[nubbe]

The fact that the card is unable to hold its boost clock while sipping relatively little power is perplexing given it's a relatively small chip (which makes the cost even more ridiculous). Never was able to gain clarity but i wonder if they are perhaps being produced on the 16nmFF and not the 16nmFF+ node in which case further efficiency gains might be perceivable with the 1080ti for example

I don't think the reference cooler has ever been able to provide enough air circulation for a good OC
Partner coolers with 2 or more fan and heat pipes can OC well without much issues

Nvidia is basically already clocking the max amount at the base clock and has a PR OC that is unusable in practice

 

[Odrion]

Here we go. When it was rumored and I said it'd eclipse a 980Ti, everyone laughed. When I'm saying the announced 1080 will be brilliant, everyone tells me to stfu and wait.

Now we're here and everyone can eat crow. Sit in the corner and eat it.

Really, people said a 1080 wouldn't out perform a 980ti? I need to see this.

 

[Spring Drive]

Should I upgrade from my GTX970?

 

[Dartastic]

It's evil because as a 970 owner (I'm one as well) the 1080 entices you with that long-presumed-lost 2x performance jump.

I'm a 970 owner as well, and I'm going to wait and see what the 1070's benchmarks are before trying to offload my 970. I'm very happy with the card still (it can still run almost everything borderline maxed out at 1080p) and since I'm not trying to run at resolutions higher than that right now I don't necessarily need to spend the $200 premium to jump from a 1070 to a 1080. If I can offload my 970 for $200 and buy a 1070 for essentially $200 cash out of pocket, that sounds ideal.

 

[Fachasaurus]

So what's the release timeline for the 1080 Ti. These benchmarks are insane but I'm gonna hold out for the Ti or Titan variant. Is there any word on when those may be announced or released?

 

[Sky Chief]

This is a 70%+ improvement though, looking at model -> same model.

... and a $150 price increase!

 

[Durante]

... and a $150 price increase!

No one disagrees that buying a FE is silly, but that's a temporary issue.

 

[Sinistral]

For the passed few years, and this has not changed with the 1080, the x80 series of cards from nVidia have become the market test bed for the cards surrounding it. Proving to be a lackluster price/perf proposition.

With the Founders Editions pricing, 6-phase PCB and reference cooler being the real kick in the nuts for early adopters. It's really the only series of cards that get the biggest market adjustments when there are other cards.

If you're in the market or even eyeing this card, wait for Partner AIB offerings. They'll offer better custom cooling solutions, possibly better construction, while possibly honoring the Non-FE MSRP.

For those where the price can be a bit extraneous, you have the 1070 in the pipe. But the real champ here is the After Market 980Tis. If you got this card early, you're the real winner as it should tide you over until big poppa Pascal, the 1080Ti, where it should prove to be the real king to the false king of the 1080.

 

[smuf]

I sold my 780 last week. It will be hard as hell to hold out until the non-reference cards arrive. I'd like something watercooled like the EVGA Hybrid since it'll go inside an Ncase M1.

 

[Sky Chief]

What's so attractive about it? Don't get sucked into the hype. I just don't see why anyone with a 980 Ti would jump on board with the FE cards that have no OCing headroom. It'd be a huge waste of money IMO. You're looking at literally a handful of extra frames per second when comparing an OCed 980 Ti to a stock 1080.

Now a third party solution with better coolers that you could get some aggressive overclocking out of? I suppose I could see that, but I certainly still wouldn't call it a wise purchase. Wait for the 1080 Ti.

My thoughts exactly

 

[jim2point0]

We'll see, why would I buy an outdated card for $400+ when I can add a couple of benjamins and buy the new hot stuff? I'd say good luck selling that...

Because of price\performance. If price matters to you.

If you can get a 980TI for $400, I'd say that's an amazing deal. The 1080 costs 50% more than that but doesn't get you 50% more performance.

 

[ACE 1991]

Should I upgrade from my GTX970?

Your provide nothing to contextualize this question. If you're happy with the performance of your 970, no.


Anyways, I'm interested to see how long my 980ti (oc'd at 1291) will be able to push high to max frames at 40ish+ fps at 1440p. I have a g-sync monitor which I think should definitely help as I won't need to enable v-sync.

 

[Manac0r]

Will be building a MTX PC with the Pascal Titan variant. Now to play the waiting game...

 

[ISee]

My 980 has to hold another year. This time I'm waiting for the 1080Ti.

 

[Collateral22]

Think I might wait on a 1080ti. 980ti launched at like 700 euro here and it looks like the 1080 will be around 800 going by UK prices.

 

[Platinumstorm]

My 980 has to hold another year. This time I'm waiting for the 1080Ti.

You're going to be fine. I'm on a 570 and it has held up for over 5 years. It's only now starting to become terribly sluggish with games. Stop being dramatic.

 

[Phawx]

Because of price\performance. If price matters to you.

If you can get a 980TI for $400, I'd say that's an amazing deal. The 1080 costs 50% more than that but doesn't get you 50% more performance.

But what about a 1070 at $450? Or $380 whenever the non-FE prices actually surface?

If you have a 28nm GPU > Wait for HBM2.

 

[Chanser]

I would like to see benchmarks for 1080 and 1070 running on 4770k.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The overclock results are pretty bad with reference cooler. I'm going to wait for the customs and see how they OC. It has to really OC a lot before it becomes worthwhile to blow $600 to upgrade from my heavily OC'd 980 Ti.

 

[j0hnny_385]

Whow...those are some impressive results.

Sticking with my Gigabyte 970 G1 for the foreseeable future. I game on 1080p TV so I'm good.
Will probably upgrade by the end of next year when HBM2 cards arrive (*fingers crossed*).

 

[Bony Manifesto]

For those where the price can be a bit extraneous, you have the 1070 in the pipe. But the real champ here is the After Market 980Tis. If you got this card early, you're the real winner as it should tide you over until big poppa Pascal, the 1080Ti, where it should prove to be the real king to the false king of the 1080.

I don't quite understand this assumption that the 1080Ti will be an especially attractive card. What are we basing this on? And if it does turn out to be hot stuff, why are we assuming that Nvidia won't jack the price up, as they have with these cards? It seems way too early to predict what's going to happen...

 

[Vitor711]

Dammit - my 980 and 1440p screen have not been getting along for a while.

This is so tempting. Guaranteed buy if it weren't for this $100 mark-up nonsense. Who knows, maybe I'll cave...

There's something about getting a guaranteed 60FPS on Ulra at that res on every game that just speaks to me - no need for tweaks outside of bad ports (Quantum Break, why you have to be so sh*tty when you look so pretty).

 

[Genio88]

My 980 has to hold another year. This time I'm waiting for the 1080Ti.

Same for me, i'm on a 1080p TV and my GTX 980 OC will be more than enough for that, also AMD will soon announce their 14nm Polaris GPU and HBM2 memory on its way...to me it's not worth spending all those money(700 euro here) on a GTX 1080 right now, next year this card could already be obsolete

 

[Hazaro]

The power jump from 980 to 1080 and considering its x04 is pretty nice. Nice enough they can deliver this out now and still have lots of room for the Ti.

The TechPowerUp review iirc mentioned that the measured boost seems to be impacted by the operating temperature as well? If so even more of a reason to NOT buy a FE card.

The overlooking looks pretty fun, just want to do that for a bit.

 

[Gareth Bale]

That UK price makes holding onto the 980 Ti much more sensible. The idea that you could sell a 980 Ti and get a 1080 a month or so later for the same price was seemed too good to be true.

 

[holygeesus]

Founder's Edition is not much of an upgrade from an heavily OC'd 980 Ti (1450-1500Mhz).

I couldn't find any direct comparisons but it looks like with the typical OC performance on FE, you'd only be gaining ~15% performance at best.

So definitely wait for AIB custom cards if you've got a 980 Ti.

I haven't got a lot of time tonight, but ran a quick benchmark using Rise of the Tomb raider - comparing to the Tom's Hardware benchmarks:

1440p - 81fps vs 92.6
3840p - 44fps vs 51.0

I overclock slightly less than your speeds there too. I can't justify an upgrade at that price for such slight gains, so will definitely wait for the ti.

 

[Knurek]

No one disagrees that buying a FE is silly, but that's a temporary issue.

I find your optimism unfounded.

You must remember the time when a new AAA game on PC was €40 or less. Now people don't bat their eyelids at €70.
No sane AIB company will forego risk-free €100 markup.

 

[riflen]

So what's the release timeline for the 1080 Ti. These benchmarks are insane but I'm gonna hold out for the Ti or Titan variant. Is there any word on when those may be announced or released?

These products are never announced more than a few weeks before release. Best guess based on hints, common sense and what's gone before is that the Titan will come around March 2017. What happens after that is anyone's guess. It could be months afterwards that the more affordable derivation arrives. Last time around the gap was small (3months), but the time before it was more like 9 months' gap.

 

[Piggus]

Waiting for MSI's card. If that Gigabyte card is indeed their 1080 then lol no thanks. It might as well say "e1337 h4x0r!!!1" on the side of it.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I'm a little concerned regarding the overclocking of the 1080, will it be possible to OC it the normal way, instead of going down adjusting the voltage route for Boost 3.0?
It sounds very time consuming and complicated.

I realise that OC utilities will add some kind of auto adjustment tool, but if for some reason they weren't very good at doing it, can you just apply the OC like we do now? And keep the same MHz speed at a constant?

 

[icecold1983]

Are there any sites with benchmarks comparing non reference OC 980TIs to the 1080? I'm curious

pcgameshardware

I remember there was some kind of controversy regarding Nvidia not having the architecture needed for doing "proper" async compute, and this theory was somewhat vigorously used to prove that AMD was the only future ahead. I understand the basic principles, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand if that chart there beyond first glance accurately tells another story or not. Anyone?

nvidia has finally come clean that maxwell at a hardware level is incapable of async compute. if you define async compute as the ability to run graphics and compute simultanously