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[Silent Hill]

I really thought it would be at E3 this year.

 

[thefro]

Is there another briefing on tomorrow at some point? I'm sure I read that this was only the first briefing and that there's a second planned for tomorrow.

It's going to be essentially the same information we got today, for the most part.

The interesting part will be the Q&A.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Maybe this is me trying to spin this situation, but surely they cannot launch in Holiday 2017, right? It feels like 2 full years of no titles to release is fucking madness, and would trouble me more than anything else said today.

They could but it wouldn't be a good idea. I think the March date is a safe bet.

 

[Calamari41]

Maybe this is me trying to spin this situation, but surely they cannot launch in Holiday 2017, right? It feels like 2 full years of no titles to release is fucking madness, and would trouble me more than anything else said today.

It would basically be three full years of a couple of releases per year instead of two. To delay it that far without pivoting back to releasing games for Wii U would be suicide, and I say that as someone who is usually too bullish on Nintendo's chances in general.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Not a chance.

So, you think the 2016 Zelda teaser was a flat-out lie? There's also no way that a March launch for the NX was originally planned unless you feel that's a lie too and it's really set for a November 2017 launch.

 

[MK_768]

I feel that Nintendo had some momentum building, people really interested to see what their next console was going to be, waiting anxiously for E3 to roll around, they had all eyes on them. All of a sudden this news just sucks all the air out of the room... no E3 and just Zelda info that's almost a year out? I certainly hope there's some surprises for the rest of the year, though my gut tells me there won't be anything to get excited about.

Very disappointing news.

Short-term, totally agree. Long term? Not so much.

 

[Rodin]

It's funny how we read reports of the NX being as powerful as the PS4 when it's releasing around the same time as the PS4K.

PS4K is a "premium version" of the PS4. NX is NX, it isn't a premium version of anything. Do you actrually believe that Nintendo can sell a new hardware at 4-500$ to match those specs? Can we stop with the console war nonsense for a minute?

 

[VendettaRed07]

Maybe this is me trying to spin this situation, but surely they cannot launch in Holiday 2017, right? It feels like 2 full years of no titles to release is fucking madness, and would trouble me more than anything else said today.

Yeah...And its been confirmed that WiiU is halting production at the end of this year right? March doesn't make any sense. But neither does anything else at this point.

 

[watershed]

Nintendo is a mess.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Yes they have. The PS3 debuted at E3 in 2005.

I'm talking about the PS4. Clearly, E3 isn't "omg" so important enough to reveal a console when you can have your own even to reveal it at and have people play it.

 

[Father_Brain]

I don't believe March 2017 for a second.

It's quite clearly a placeholder date to appease investors in the short term. Still part of the fiscal year and all.

It's not happening. This is going to be a holiday 2017 launch (in NA at least) with Zelda Wii U delayed alongside it.

This is silly. The NX launch *could* slip further into 2017, I won't deny that, but there's no gain in outright lying to shareholders knowing that you'll later have to revise forecasts downwards.

I'm as baffled as the rest of you regarding the E3 no-show, but I have to think that at this point in time, they honestly believe they can make the March date.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Just reading this. Unbelievable. I wonder what Iwata would think.

This sounds like exactly what Iwata would do, he's the one that said Nintendo can't compete with Sony/Microsoft.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I... don't even know.

Basically no Nintendo for a year, then? It's like I'm being punished as a child.

 

[KingBroly]

PS4K is a "premium version" of the PS4. NX is NX, it isn't a premium version of anything. Do you think that Nintendo can sell a new hardware at 4-500$ to match those specs?

NX should be 300 max imo.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

So, you think the 2016 Zelda teaser was a flat-out lie? There's also no way that a March launch for the NX was originally planned unless you feel that's a lie too and it's really set for a November 2017 launch.

I don't think they're "lying" necessarily, I just have no reason to believe any of their announced launch dates or windows for anything.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

 

[Dreamwriter]

There's also no way that a March launch for the NX was originally planned unless you feel that's a lie too and it's really set for a November 2017 launch.

Why would you think that? Nintendo's last system release (3DS) came out in March, and was sold out for two months. So why would you think there's no way a March release for NX was originally planned?

 

[Calamari41]

Short-term, totally agree. Long term? Not so much.

"Long term" we're looking at almost a solid year with one home console game released, two years with five home console games released. It's devastating unless they have some Wii U surprises coming.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Nintendo is a mess.

Nintendo at e3 this year.

"Here is color splash..."

 

[Red Devil]

People are acting as if Nintendo had already announced the NX launch for holiday 2016 and have delayed it. This was never the case, and for all we know they had always planned a March 2017 launch.

The only thing they've been saying since last year is that they would show it this year, everything else like launch date was pure speculation.

 

[Candescence]

A few thoughts:

People are acting as if Nintendo had already announced the NX launch for holiday 2016 and have delayed it. This was never the case, and for all we know they had always planned a March 2017 launch. Furthermore, a holiday launch isn't a necessary or sufficient condition for a console to be successful. Case in point: the Wii U had a worldwide holiday launch. There are any number of potential reasons (both in terms of hardware and software) why a March 2017 launch might be more favourable to Nintendo, and we have no idea what any of them are. Contrary to what many people would like to believe, Nintendo isn't staffed entirely with gawk-eyed morons who choose release dates by throwing darts at a calendar. They're a multi-billion dollar company who research every minute implication of a decision like this before going forward with it.

Aside from that, the decision not to show NX at E3 is a strange one, but there may be a few different reasons for it, off the top of my head:

1. NX isn't ready to show at E3

I think we can throw this one out of the way pretty quickly. The Wii U was playable at E3 almost a year and a half before release. This is 10 months before release, and they could certainly show off a handful of games, even if they leave more unveils for post-E3 directs.

2. They simply don't think E3 is the best place to reveal a new console

This is what I'd put my money on. Why reveal your new console within the few days of the year when you don't get near 100% of the gaming media coverage? Nintendo have been moving away from an E3-centric PR schedule for a few years now, with more games announced throughout the year during Nintendo Directs where they can have a lot more space to themselves. Furthermore, with PS4K, PSVR and perhaps an XBO revision due at E3, they don't even get the exclusive "new hardware" coverage. In a modern, internet-driven world, it makes a lot more sense to have your own reveal show in your own time, when you can dominate the news cycle.

And if you still think that every console has to be revealed at E3, consider this: neither PS4 nor XBO were revealed at E3. In both cases Sony and MS decided they were better off having their own reveal show than sharing the stage at E3. Now, both of these were pre-E3, but both consoles were scheduled for holiday launches. With a March launch the optimal reveal time may well be post-E3.

3. They want to wait until after the PS4K reveal so they can adjust their strategy if necessary

I wouldn't see this as being the main reason behind skipping E3, but in combination with point 2 it might make sense. They may want to adapt how they present the hardware, what their pricing strategy is, and other aspects of their reveal and pre-launch campaign in order to best position themselves in the market.

In a more unlikely scenario, they may wish to even adapt their hardware slightly to respond to PS4K. There won't be any chance of wholesale changes, as the SoC would already be taping out around now, but they could make a few more minor adaptations if they really felt it necessary. A simple example would be increasing clock speeds to squeeze more out of the SoC (as MS did with XBO pre-launch). If Nintendo had been targeting, let's say performance in between XBO and PS4 in a small, low TDP console, they may be able to switch to a larger case and a more capable power supply and cooling system and push up the clock speeds to match or even slightly exceed PS4 performance. Another possibility is to increase the RAM quantity, which can be done quite late on (as Sony did with PS4). With PS4K seemingly limited to 8GB of RAM, Nintendo may decide to move up to 12GB or even 16GB to have at least one spec where they can trumpet their hardware as superior.

The most unlikely possibility, although still theoretically an option, is to enable the full number of CUs on their SoC. I would assume that, like on the PS4 and XBO SoCs, AMD and Nintendo will have intended to leave two or more CUs disabled to increase yields. Enabling these two (or more) CUs could give them a performance boost, but would leave them with a higher cost per chip due to the decreased yields. As I say, it's a very unlikely option, due to the added cost, but it's technically available to Nintendo if they decide that PS4K's existence forces them to squeeze as much as humanly possible out of their already-designed chip.


Separate from all of the above, this does slightly increase the likelihood of a 14nm SoC in the console. I'd still count it as pretty damn unlikely, but it's perhaps a little more likely now.

Another interesting thing to consider is that if Nintendo's entire E3 2016 floor presence is dedicated to Zelda, then that would be by a huge margin the most E3 floor space ever dedicated to a single game, and the game it's dedicated to is one of NX's big launch titles. It'll be a little strange showing it off running on Wii U after the NX version has already been announced, but it makes a bit more sense than having the first game they show off running on NX hardware being a last-gen port.

Excellent analysis. Nintendo has been slowly weaning off PR dependence on E3 for years now, so an independent reveal event like the PS4's and Xbone's makes sense, even if it is after E3 rather than before. There are a number of valid factors that could be applied to their decision to skip E3 for the reveal and have the NX release be in March 2017.

 

[DashReindeer]

I... don't even know.

Basically no Nintendo for a year, then? It's like I'm being punished as a child.

Exactly! Feels like my parents took away my NES for the year, and I just have to tide myself over by imagining what the games are gonna be like when I get it back. Except now I'm an adult and I can just buy the competitors' consoles instead, which is almost 100% guaranteed to happen now.

 

[studyguy]

WiiU is dead as a motherfucker.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

Who says they are?

They are. If you're going to dedicate an entire E3 to one game that's what you are communicating to us as gamers.

 

[Father_Brain]

Why would you think that? Nintendo's last system release (3DS) came out in March, and was sold out for two months. So why would you think there's no way a March release for NX was originally planned?

You really think they planned on missing the holiday season, even with Wii U dead and 3DS in rapid decline?

 

[DecoReturns]

Come on guys, they can't just push a button and get the games and systems working.

Unexpected issues or not wanting a launch with no games seem to be the case.

I guess it doesn't matter to me tho, I'm never in a rush to buy games and systems. I'm amazingly patient

 

[Godzilla's Left Toe]

WiiU is dead as a motherfucker.

Well not just that

 

[MK_768]

"Long term" we're looking at almost a solid year with one home console game released, two years with five home console games released. It's devastating unless they have some Wii U surprises coming.

Long-term we are looking at a new Nintendo console that will continue to be speculated upon until release. Long-term we are looking at a system release next March with "plenty" of unannounced games. The hype has been snuffed now...but in due time it'll gain back it where it was.

It's absolutely devastating short-term. Long-term...this shit matters very little.

 

[Splendor]

So since we look past E3 to see the NX reveal, how many games do you think will be shown along with the consoles reveal? Obviously Zelda, but what other games do you think we can reasonably expect?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I've read just about every post in this thread.

If I could distill the collective sentiment down to a single phrase/thought, it would be that Nintendo just doesn't understand how to generate hype.

It's worse even, they've fully demonstrated that they're capable of reversing any ounce of excitement they have going for them. Terrible.

Excitement I would add that is generated out of thin air and hopes and dreams. Real Nintendo always manages to destroy that.

Most excited I have been about Nintendo is always theoretical Nintendo.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

They have tons of money.

 

[Calamari41]

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

They are making good money right now. But that's with games releasing. I don't see how they continue making this kind of money with Paper Mario: Color Splash as their sole home console release until the NX launches. Is the 3DS lineup over the next year going to make up for the lack of hits like Splatoon and Mario Maker, and moderate successes like Wooly World and Xenoblade?

Long-term we are looking at a new Nintendo console that will continue to be speculated upon until release. Long-term we are looking at a system release next March with "plenty" of unannounced games. The hype has been snuffed now...but in due time it'll gain back it where it was.

It's absolutely devastating short-term. Long-term...this shit matters very little.

I'll have to agree to disagree. I personally think that Nintendo exiting the market for two years before the Wii U's release was one of the major factors in its failure.

 

[MuchoMalo]

A few thoughts:

People are acting as if Nintendo had already announced the NX launch for holiday 2016 and have delayed it. This was never the case, and for all we know they had always planned a March 2017 launch. Furthermore, a holiday launch isn't a necessary or sufficient condition for a console to be successful. Case in point: the Wii U had a worldwide holiday launch. There are any number of potential reasons (both in terms of hardware and software) why a March 2017 launch might be more favourable to Nintendo, and we have no idea what any of them are. Contrary to what many people would like to believe, Nintendo isn't staffed entirely with gawk-eyed morons who choose release dates by throwing darts at a calendar. They're a multi-billion dollar company who research every minute implication of a decision like this before going forward with it.

Aside from that, the decision not to show NX at E3 is a strange one, but there may be a few different reasons for it, off the top of my head:

1. NX isn't ready to show at E3

I think we can throw this one out of the way pretty quickly. The Wii U was playable at E3 almost a year and a half before release. This is 10 months before release, and they could certainly show off a handful of games, even if they leave more unveils for post-E3 directs.

2. They simply don't think E3 is the best place to reveal a new console

This is what I'd put my money on. Why reveal your new console within the few days of the year when you don't get near 100% of the gaming media coverage? Nintendo have been moving away from an E3-centric PR schedule for a few years now, with more games announced throughout the year during Nintendo Directs where they can have a lot more space to themselves. Furthermore, with PS4K, PSVR and perhaps an XBO revision due at E3, they don't even get the exclusive "new hardware" coverage. In a modern, internet-driven world, it makes a lot more sense to have your own reveal show in your own time, when you can dominate the news cycle.

And if you still think that every console has to be revealed at E3, consider this: neither PS4 nor XBO were revealed at E3. In both cases Sony and MS decided they were better off having their own reveal show than sharing the stage at E3. Now, both of these were pre-E3, but both consoles were scheduled for holiday launches. With a March launch the optimal reveal time may well be post-E3.

3. They want to wait until after the PS4K reveal so they can adjust their strategy if necessary

I wouldn't see this as being the main reason behind skipping E3, but in combination with point 2 it might make sense. They may want to adapt how they present the hardware, what their pricing strategy is, and other aspects of their reveal and pre-launch campaign in order to best position themselves in the market.

In a more unlikely scenario, they may wish to even adapt their hardware slightly to respond to PS4K. There won't be any chance of wholesale changes, as the SoC would already be taping out around now, but they could make a few more minor adaptations if they really felt it necessary. A simple example would be increasing clock speeds to squeeze more out of the SoC (as MS did with XBO pre-launch). If Nintendo had been targeting, let's say performance in between XBO and PS4 in a small, low TDP console, they may be able to switch to a larger case and a more capable power supply and cooling system and push up the clock speeds to match or even slightly exceed PS4 performance. Another possibility is to increase the RAM quantity, which can be done quite late on (as Sony did with PS4). With PS4K seemingly limited to 8GB of RAM, Nintendo may decide to move up to 12GB or even 16GB to have at least one spec where they can trumpet their hardware as superior.

The most unlikely possibility, although still theoretically an option, is to enable the full number of CUs on their SoC. I would assume that, like on the PS4 and XBO SoCs, AMD and Nintendo will have intended to leave two or more CUs disabled to increase yields. Enabling these two (or more) CUs could give them a performance boost, but would leave them with a higher cost per chip due to the decreased yields. As I say, it's a very unlikely option, due to the added cost, but it's technically available to Nintendo if they decide that PS4K's existence forces them to squeeze as much as humanly possible out of their already-designed chip.


Separate from all of the above, this does slightly increase the likelihood of a 14nm SoC in the console. I'd still count it as pretty damn unlikely, but it's perhaps a little more likely now.

Another interesting thing to consider is that if Nintendo's entire E3 2016 floor presence is dedicated to Zelda, then that would be by a huge margin the most E3 floor space ever dedicated to a single game, and the game it's dedicated to is one of NX's big launch titles. It'll be a little strange showing it off running on Wii U after the NX version has already been announced, but it makes a bit more sense than having the first game they show off running on NX hardware being a last-gen port.

I just want to point out again that, as far as consoles go, the Wii U was both the only time Nintendo was a node behind Sony and the only time Nintendo launched before Sony. The idea that Nintendo would avoid 14nmFF due to being too new is extremely flawed.

 

[Nanashrew]

Yup. It's hilarious, and so transparent. E3 is more important than ever. Nintendo failing to deliver the goods and cowering away from it speaks to their own incompetence, not the apparent lack of relevance E3 currently holds.

More important than ever? Tell that to my friends who don't even know it exists and are completely uninterested by it.

21 million viewers you say? Pitiful compared to hardware sold and gives me a glimpse that it's only aimed the hardest core enthusiasts and are the only ones that care. Casuals don't watch, a gigantic portion of the world doesn't care at all.

Attendance is low, company participation is low. More companies are finding new ways to deliver content. Hell Microsoft saved some things from being showed at E3 and showed them elsewhere last year.

Slowly, companies are coming to realize they don't have to rely on E3 if their shit ain't ready and can even save it for other trade shows or make their own event like the rest of the entertainment industry has done for decades now.

 

[Schnozberry]

1. NX isn't ready to show at E3

I think we can throw this one out of the way pretty quickly. The Wii U was playable at E3 almost a year and a half before release. This is 10 months before release, and they could certainly show off a handful of games, even if they leave more unveils for post-E3 directs.

I think the 18 month hype deflation tour the Wii U went on from unveiling to release probably weighs pretty heavily on this decision. I'll take Kimishima's word on them wanting more software ready for the unveiling. Perhaps they want to load everything into the cannon for their own event later in the year so they can control the news cycle for a few days.

 

[Dreamwriter]

You really think they planned on missing the holiday season, even with Wii U dead and 3DS in rapid decline?

Yes, they planned on 3DS missing the holiday season too. The holiday season is way too packed with competition, companies really need to stop releasing stuff then, just because of Christmas. 3DS still sold out in March - that's all that matters is getting the sales.

Also remember, Nintendo is trying to change everything about how their company works. They've admitted that how they've been doing things doesn't work anymore, and so are trying new things, switching it all up.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Come on guys, they can't just push a button and get the games and systems working.

Unexpected issues or not wanting a launch with no games seem to be the case.

I guess it doesn't matter to me tho, I'm never in a rush to buy games and systems. I'm amazingly patient

It isn't even the release date. Its the radio silence from Nintendo ever since Iwata passed. We're being left in the dark with no clue what is going on or what they are doing. Telling us what is happening, what is coming and when would make being patient easier. But we've gotten practically no info out Nintendo about anything for well over a year now. And that is going to continue for who knows how long.

 

[MK_768]

They are. If you're going to dedicate an entire E3 to one game that's what you are communicating to us as gamers.

Cause an NX-only event wouldn't be them "communicating to us as gamers?" lol

 

[OricWindstar]

Just woke up to this. Incredibly surprising. If it means they'll be basically taking a year to regroup for the NX, I could see this being good long-term and potentially pointing towards a stellar launch lineup for March, but who the fuck knows with Nintendo.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Is there a Q & A session to still come at this silly investors thing???

 

[Deadpool_X]

So, this is how Saturn owners felt the last 18 months of that console's life, huh?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Basically no Nintendo for a year, then? It's like I'm being punished as a child.

Yep. Thankfully I have a small backlog on both Wii U and 3DS as I do most of my gaming on PS4/X1. So at least I can get that knocked out before NX.

NX should be 300 max imo.

Agreed. Console should be $250-300 and portable $180-200 tops. They need to be priced to appeal to more casual gamers, families and as a second or third console for core gamers.

That really helped the Wii since it launched at $250 and offered a different type of games. It was an easier impulse buy for casual/non-gamers and for core gamers to pick up to put beside their PS3/360.

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

Well, new Pokemon games on 3DS will make a ton of money. And they have what every mobile games they come out with this year on top of Miitomo. And Amiibo and any licensing stuff they do with their IP.

So they should be alright revenue wise until NX. The real key is how they build buzz for NX leading up to it's launch. It can NOT afford a slow start as too many people will be waiting on the fences after the Wii U bomb wanting to see it sell well and have a good, robust library before committing to a Nintendo console again. So they need to have a killer lineup on launch day and in the launch window and sell well from the start or they'll be in deep trouble.

Just woke up to this. Incredibly surprising. If it means they'll be basically taking a year to regroup for the NX, I could see this being good long-term and potentially pointing towards a stellar launch lineup for March, but who the fuck knows with Nintendo.

That's my hope. That the PS Neo/Xbox 1.5 stuff caused them to wisely decide to pause and re-asses and make sure they have a killer launch. Be it tweaking the hardware or just having a killer launch lineup or both. As I said above, they have to nail the launch.

 

[Splendor]

Another big thing is that we have heard for the last year or so about nintendo restructering development and their overall business strategy. I can definitely see that affecting their console development on both a hardware and software side, which might have had some effect on this delay.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

No, it's just the only playable game.

The press conference / direct can include more games of course.

But are they going to be NX games or games for a dead console?

 

[MuchoMalo]

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

Mobile.

Why would you think that? Nintendo's last system release (3DS) came out in March, and was sold out for two months. So why would you think there's no way a March release for NX was originally planned?

This depends on if it's a handheld or not. If there's a console, I'd think that they'd target Holiday 2017 before even considering March.

 

[Dreamwriter]

So, this is how Saturn owners felt the last 18 months of that console's life, huh?

Note that Saturn got hundreds of games in its lifetime, including in the last 18 months.

 

[Father_Brain]

Yes, they planned on 3DS missing the holiday season too. The holiday season is way too packed with competition, companies really need to stop releasing stuff then, just because of Christmas. 3DS still sold out in March - that's all that matters is getting the sales.

Also remember, Nintendo is trying to change everything about how their company works. They've admitted that how they've been doing things doesn't work anymore, and so are trying new things, switching it all up.

I really, really don't think so in this case, but to each his own. Not like any of us can prove it either way.

 

[Red Devil]

More important than ever? Tell that to my friends who don't even know it exists and are completely uninterested by it.

21 million viewers you say? Pitiful compared to hardware sold and gives me a glimpse that it's only aimed the hardest core enthusiasts and are the only ones that care. Casuals don't watch, a gigantic portion of the world doesn't care at all.

Attendance is low, company participation is low. More companies are finding new ways to deliver content. Hell Microsoft saved some things from being showed at E3 and showed them elsewhere last year.

Slowly, companies are coming to realize they don't have to rely on E3 if their shit ain't ready and can even save it for other trade shows or make their own event like the rest of the entertainment industry has done for decades now.

Add to that, the general consumer if anything will find a bit of news in the non-video game dedicated media in which they'll be shown what the outlets were paid to show.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

More important than ever? Tell that to my friends who don't even know it exists and are completely uninterested by it.

21 million viewers you say? Pitiful compared to hardware sold and gives me a glimpse that it's only aimed the hardest core enthusiasts and are the only ones that care. Casuals don't watch, a gigantic portion of the world doesn't care at all.

Attendance is low, company participation is low. More companies are finding new ways to deliver content. Hell Microsoft saved some things from being showed at E3 and showed them elsewhere last year.

Slowly, companies are coming to realize they don't have to rely on E3 if their shit ain't ready and can even save it for other trade shows or make their own event like the rest of the entertainment industry has done for decades now.

Lol more like Nintendo's home console sales are pitiful compared to 21 million viewers.

 

[Neoxon]

Are they making enough money from the Wii U and 3DS to remain sustainable until then?

3DS sales are dropping (61%, if I recall correctly) & the Wii U is all but dead. Sun/Moon may help lessen the drop for the 3DS this year, but I'm not sure by how much. That being said, mobile & Amiibo will help profits a lot this year.