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[Izayoi]

Hopefully this catches on elsewhere as well.

Outlaw the practice completely, IMO. Housing is so incredibly scarce as it is, and you get scumbags buying up entire blocks of condos and apartments to turn into illegal hotels to skirt hospitality laws and fuck over potential residents in the process.

Burn the entire thing to the ground, it was a mistake.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I agree that airbnb is sleazy for the bolded.

In my country, the government tax agency goes after people on airbnb to make sure they are paying taxes as they should and don't compete unfairly against hotels.

If you let out your apartment without express permission from your landlord or housing association, you can get evicted. You don't need permission to let out a room if you're still staying there yourself. And the landlord or housing association has to grant you permission to let out your apartment if you are going on an extended trip, but they will crack down on people who buy-to-rent

Basically, it's in the interest of landlords and housing associations to prevent people from letting out their apartments and it's up to government to provide the framework for when you should be allowed to do so or not. There are special courts for conflicts between first-hand renters/owners of an apartment in a housing association and the landlord/housing associations

But Airbnb should already do that. They should make sure the people going through their website are actually living in their houses and such. Require some proof, whatever. And throw out offerings that are obviously from companies. For example, the dude downstairs from me is renting out through it. He also "owns" places in the US, Colombia, UK, Germany, etc. Surely that is not a normal offering they should accept, it's clearly a company abusing the system.

They refuse to work with government. Over here in Amsterdam the rule is: you can rent out for up to 60 days a year and a maximum of 4 people at a time. So why does Airbnb even accept your listings of more people then 4? They can easily limit it per location in accordance with local law.

They refuse to share their data. So those 60 days, well, the neighbors need to count it I guess? While Airbnb has the data right there!

You can't blame the government for not using public funds to do the regulation for Airbnb. They can do so themselves, they just refuse to because they make profit of it. So ban them until they sort their stuff out.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Wait so lobbyists are calling airbnb spots "illegal hotels" now because they are run by public citizens? I guess these same people would have to refer to Uber as "illegal Taxi's". Good job lobbyists and special interests. You are more powerful than the public

 

[Gigglepoo]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

 

[Silver Arrows]

Vancouver hopefully should be as hardcore as NY is being now.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Wait so lobbyists are calling airbnb spots "illegal hotels" now because they are run by public citizens? I guess these same people would have to refer to Uber as "illegal Taxi's". Good job lobbyists and special interests. You are more powerful than the public

If the place is rented out year round, it is an illegal hotel. The owner is running an illegal hotel there. What else would you call a place that only has the purpose of being rented out to people for short stays?

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

By not having tourists make a mess in my apartment building for starters.

 

[Starviper]

If approached differently, it really is a great system and alternative from hotels. Taking away affordable housing though isn't cool at all.



This applies to residential family homes as well. If you are a homeowner and are living there while renting a room, that is legal as NYCmetsfan says.

Taking a home and hoteling for random people is illegal. That's what enough people are doing to for this law to be enacted.

Looks like you're wrong about the law -

Link to the new law.
http://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_...mary=Y&Actions=Y&Committee&nbspVotes=Y&Text=Y

http://www.nycrgb.org/html/resources/hmc/sub1/art1.html

Its been a long time coming, airbnb may have its uses but commercial operators used and abused this in cities.

Going off of this it sounds like they're targeting buildings classified as multiple dwelling residences (apartment complexes)

That seems like a very reasonable and fair amendment.

 

[Sir Abacus]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

They're hoping the increased stock being forced back onto the rental market will lower rents.

 

[CrocMother]

Wait so lobbyists are calling airbnb spots "illegal hotels" now because they are run by public citizens? I guess these same people would have to refer to Uber as "illegal Taxi's". Good job lobbyists and special interests. You are more powerful than the public

How about I move into your house and then rent out my room to a bunch of random people. I'm sure you wouldn't mind them having the keys to your front door?

 

[Darryl M R]

If the place is rented out year round, it is an illegal hotel. The owner is running an illegal hotel there. What else would you call a place that only has the purpose of being rented out to people for short stays?

Not directly responding to your question or the the previous quote. But this also affects those that rent out their units when they are out on travel?

The place I'm staying at right now is very much in use by the host. I think she had business in Cali this week.

I'm just trying to understand who this bill is for--all Airbnb?

 

[Spiral Insanity]

They should just limit hosts to one listing. That's it. The only wrong thing here is fat cats abusing the system. There is so much hate here for Airbnb, like there was for Uber two years ago.

 

[Izayoi]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

It's not about improving my own life, it's about improving the lives of thousands of other people who struggle to find housing as it is. In big cities across the country, it can be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to find reasonably priced housing even without outside special interests buying up entire multi-family units to farm out to the highest bidder on a per-night basis.

I'm happy that you are secure in your housing situation and like that cheap rooms are available wherever you want to travel, but not everyone is so lucky.

 

[linko9]

To me the problem is that hotels are in a ridiculous state today. Hotels really strike me as preposterous; they offer so much more than anyone is accustomed to in day-to-day life. Is it unreasonable to have a place where you can pay for a small room with a bed in it, a bathroom for the floor, and that's all? You shouldn't be forced to live in luxury every day just because you're traveling. Hostels and the like are much more common in Europe, but are really uncommon in the US, which makes Airbnb often the only reasonable way to stay somewhere when traveling for many people.

 

[Foov]

Wait so lobbyists are calling airbnb spots "illegal hotels" now because they are run by public citizens? I guess these same people would have to refer to Uber as "illegal Taxi's". Good job lobbyists and special interests. You are more powerful than the public

Calling? According to the law, it is illegal. No matter who is doing it.

 

[El_Chino]

They should just limit hosts to one listing. That's it. The only wrong thing here is fat cats abusing the system. There is so much hate here for Airbnb, like there was for Uber two years ago.

.

 

[Gigglepoo]

They're hoping the increased stock being forced back onto the rental market will lower rents.

FiveThrityEight says that AirBnB isn't raising rents, though.

It's not about improving my own life, it's about improving the lives of thousands of other people who struggle to find housing as it is. In big cities across the country, it can be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to find reasonably priced housing even without outside special interests buying up entire multi-family units to farm out to the highest bidder on a per-night basis.

I'm happy that you are secure in your housing situation and like that cheap rooms are available wherever you want to travel, but not everyone is so lucky.

I live in the Bay Area. There's no evidence that the housing is sky high out here because of AirBnB. It's just a scapegoat.

 

[John Kowalski]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

Isn't the presumption that this will help access to housing, generally? I'd say that's quite the return for someone who cares about it.

 

[dramatis]

I'm just trying to understand who this bill is for--all Airbnb?

It's for people who have taken up renting out extra apartments for short bursts to travelers rather than to have more permanent residents.

 

[Darryl M R]

It's not about improving my own life, it's about improving the lives of thousands of other people who struggle to find housing as it is. In big cities across the country, it can be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to find reasonably priced housing even without outside special interests buying up entire multi-family units to farm out to the highest bidder on a per-night basis.

I'm happy that you are secure in your housing situation and like that cheap rooms are available wherever you want to travel, but not everyone is so lucky.

Is affordable housing for apartments or condos?

I've walked from UWS to Tribeca and saw some great condos. I tried looking them up for, since I should be in the market in 5 years or so for a place. It would suck if I was not able to live in an area because there is just a lack of options due to people buying to rent. But I do not know how apartment rent are going up because of it--I think rent prices have been on the rise in general and I would question if the delta has changed since Airbnb became so popular. Now condos prices look ridiculous, but I have not been monitoring them for too long.



/types this as he currently sits in a Airbnb in the UWS

 

[hydrophilic attack]

But Airbnb should already do that. They should make sure the people going through their website are actually living in their houses and such. Require some proof, whatever. And throw out offerings that are obviously from companies. For example, the dude downstairs from me is renting out through it. He also "owns" places in the US, Colombia, UK, Germany, etc. Surely that is not a normal offering they should accept, it's clearly a company abusing the system.

They refuse to work with government. Over here in Amsterdam the rule is: you can rent out for up to 60 days a year and a maximum of 4 people at a time. So why does Airbnb even accept your listings of more people then 4? They can easily limit it per location in accordance with local law.

They refuse to share their data. So those 60 days, well, the neighbors need to count it I guess? While Airbnb has the data right there!

You can't blame the government for not using public funds to do the regulation for Airbnb. They can do so themselves, they just refuse to because they make profit of it. So ban them until they sort their stuff out.

When a company breaks the law, go after them for breaking the law. Don't introduce special legislation for the sake of going after one company.

 

[yellow submarine]

Good, hope this expands to california and washington state too. Airbnb is bullshit and drives up home prices artificially. If you want to be a landlord, do it within the existing laws.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Good, hope this expands to california and washington state too. Airbnb is bullshit and drives up home prices artificially. If you want to be a landlord, do it within the existing laws.

AirBnB doesn't drive up rent costs, though.

 

[Izayoi]

I live in the Bay Area. There's no evidence that the housing is sky high out here because of AirBnB. It's just a scapegoat.

The all-or-nothing fallacy?

It is undoubtedly a contributing factor, even if it is not the sole cause.

 

[Armaros]

When a company breaks the law, go after them for breaking the law. Don't introduce special legislation for the sake of going after one company.

The laws apply to anyone using long term residential housing as illegal hotels. It's not the government's fault that airbnb decided to make illegal hotels as a part of their business strategy.

How about Airbnb stop encouraging their users to break the law and protecting them?

 

[ClosingADoor]

When a company breaks the law, go after them for breaking the law. Don't introduce special legislation for the sake of going after one company.

Well, there are more companies doing this stuff. But Airbnb is the biggest and most known. But the law would affect all companies that do this of course. They are not targeting Airbnb but the whole short stay rental business that has popped up over the least years.

And the company is not breaking the law technically. The people offering their homes are. But to go after them is being made impossible since Airbnb won't share the data. So how do you proof that a place is being rented out more then 60 days a year? The neighbors could be lying as well of course. So do you want the government to check every day? It's impossible. So instead you regulate the companies offering those services to people, which is pretty normal to do.

 

[kirblar]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

By making housing cheaper by putting places back on the market for single owners.

AirBnB is dogpiling the problems that already exist.

AirBnB doesn't drive up rent costs, though.

That's not correct. Anything that encourages people who own properties to use them for short-term rentals instead of long-term rents/owns will do exactly that by taking the properties off the market completely.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

The laws apply to anyone using long term residential housing as illegal hotels. It's not the government's fault that airbnb decided to make illegal hotels as a part of their business strategy.

How about Airbnb stop encouraging their users to break the law and protecting them?

Well, there are more companies doing this stuff. But Airbnb is the biggest and most known. But the law would affect all companies that do this of course. They are not targeting Airbnb but the whole short stay rental business that has popped up over the least years.

And the company is not breaking the law technically. The people offering their homes are. But to go after them is being made impossible since Airbnb won't share the data. So how do you proof that a place is being rented out more then 60 days a year? The neighbors could be lying as well of course. So do you want the government to check every day? It's impossible. So instead you regulate the companies offering those services to people, which is pretty normal to do.

I think Airbnb should go after people who abuse the service.

The previous law didn't specifically target the abusers, but everyone including people who let one room in an apartment while still staying there themselves, and people letting their apartment while on vacation. The previous law was unreasonable, so of course airbnb isn't going to play nice. If the previous law had, with higher precision, targeted the abusers then I would be ok with going after airbnb for undermining a reasonable law.

 

[TyrantII]

FiveThrityEight says that AirBnB isn't raising rents, though.



I live in the Bay Area. There's no evidence that the housing is sky high out here because of AirBnB. It's just a scapegoat.

Correct, AirBnB isn't even a dent in the housing market as far as prices go.

That said, I'd be pretty pissed as a property owner if someone in my condo association or residential building was giving the keys to random people multiple times a week.

Residential zoning isn't Commercial for a reason, and the crackdown should be hard.

It's one thing to rent out your place while gone for a weekend or two a year. It's another to run a boarding bussiness, which is what Airbnb is becoming known for.

 

[megalowho]

AirBnB doesn't drive up rent costs, though.

It happened to me. Tenant for 3 years in a new building in Brooklyn, never missed a rent payment. By year 3 it was clear that a majority of apartments were being replaced with tourists, was aggravating as fuck to deal with but at least I had my apartment.

Until I agreed to extend my lease for 2 more years. Then I received a notice from the landlord saying that they chose to raise my rent by $800 a month and gave me a few weeks to comply and sign or vacate. At this point I was the only actual tenant in the building that lived and worked in the city, aside from the caretaker who handed out keys. I was living in an illegal hotel and they wanted my room for an additional listing, so up goes the rent.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I think Airbnb should go after people who abuse the service.

The previous law didn't specifically target the abusers, but everyone including people who let one room in an apartment while still staying there themselves, and people letting their apartment while on vacation. The previous law was unreasonable, so of course airbnb isn't going to play nice. If the previous law had, with higher precision, targeted the abusers then I would be ok with going after airbnb for undermining a reasonable law.

Airbnb refuses to do that, since their income model is mostly based on those abusers. They profit from it. So there is no incentive for them to ban those from the service. That is why government is stepping in.

I can't speak specifically for New York, but over here local governments have tried for years now to make a deal with Airbnb so people can rent out their place, but not fulltime and not through agencies and companies. 60 days a year, up to 4 people. Very reasonable limits. But Airbnb does not want that. You are making excuses for them, but the company itself as not lifted a finger to tackle this issue.

 

[entremet]

It happened to me. Tenant for 3 years in a new building in Brooklyn, never missed a rent payment. By year 3 it was clear that a majority of apartments were being replaced with tourists, was aggravating as fuck to deal with but at least I had my apartment.

Until I agreed to extend my lease for 2 more years. Then I received a notice from the landlord saying that they chose to raise my rent by $800 a month and gave me a few weeks to comply and sign or vacate. At this point I was the only actual tenant in the building that lived and worked in the city, aside from the caretaker who handed out keys. I was living in an illegal hotel and they wanted my room for an additional listing.

That's messed up.

 

[dcdobson]

Wow. I didn't know so many people here hated Airbnb. I've had nothing but good experiences with it and it's my preferred way of board over hotels.

Yeah, same. I've had nothing but good experiences, both as a traveler and as a host. Many of my trips would have ended up being much more expensive if Airbnb wasn't an option. I realize this is a myopic way of looking at things, though.

 

[teruterubozu]

How do people who hate AirBnB expect their lives will improve if laws like this go into effect across the country?

Well, my neighbor won't have strange people at their house every fucking week.

 

[entremet]

Yeah, same. I've had nothing but good experiences, both as a traveler and as a host. Many of my trips would have ended up being much more expensive if Airbnb wasn't an option. I realize this is a myopic way of looking at things, though.

I don't think the hate is about AirBnB as a customer, but what AirBnB does to neighborhood.

 

[Mistouze]

It happened to me. Tenant for 3 years in a new building in Brooklyn, never missed a rent payment. By year 3 it was clear that a majority of apartments were being replaced with tourists, was aggravating as fuck to deal with but at least I had my apartment.

Until I agreed to extend my lease for 2 more years. Then I received a notice from the landlord saying that they chose to raise my rent by $800 a month and gave me a few weeks to comply and sign or vacate. At this point I was the only actual tenant in the building that lived and worked in the city, aside from the caretaker who handed out keys. I was living in an illegal hotel and they wanted my room for an additional listing, so up goes the rent.

How the fuck is it possible to raise the rent by that much in one hit ? There should be a law preventing that regardless of AirBnb messing with the housing market.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

It happened to me. Tenant for 3 years in a new building in Brooklyn, never missed a rent payment. By year 3 it was clear that a majority of apartments were being replaced with tourists, was aggravating as fuck to deal with but at least I had my apartment.

Until I agreed to extend my lease for 2 more years. Then I received a notice from the landlord saying that they chose to raise my rent by $800 a month and gave me a few weeks to comply and sign or vacate. At this point I was the only actual tenant in the building that lived and worked in the city, aside from the caretaker who handed out keys. I was living in an illegal hotel and they wanted my room for an additional listing, so up goes the rent.

That is messed up. There should be laws against landlords doing stuff like that, regardless of whether airbnb is involved or not. In my country, we have a tenants' union that helps protect tenants from stuff like this, and as I mentioned before, special courts for housing matters.

Airbnb refuses to do that, since their income model is mostly based on those abusers. They profit from it. So there is no incentive for them to ban those from the service. That is why government is stepping in.

I can't speak specifically for New York, but over here local governments have tried for years now to make a deal with Airbnb so people can rent out their place, but not fulltime and not through agencies and companies. 60 days a year, up to 4 people. Very reasonable limits. But Airbnb does not want that. You are making excuses for them, but the company itself as not lifted a finger to tackle this issue.

So, when AirBnB refuses to follow reasonable laws, it makes sense to introduce a law that goes after them for not following these reasonable laws. But you should not make a law that goes after people not abusing the system.

And yeah, reading stuff like this makes me feel a lot worse about airbnb. I do try to use my judgement to only rent from people that don't abuse the service, but I messed up once.

 

[mattiewheels]

Like affordable rates, regular folks with a new/additional source of income provided they put effort in it, and increased tourism?
Not every Airbnb host is a landlord looking to abuse the system.

There's obviously people who are using the service in a reasonable way, but when you hear stuff like this...

Good. Fuck my last landlord who priced out all the tenants from his building to try and run an illegal hotel through Airbnb instead.

Hopefully something happens in London too. The stories of people getting kicked out their flats so agencies can rent them out to AirBnB customers for more money is a real shitty practice.

 

[B-Dubs]

Airbnb refuses to do that, since their income model is mostly based on those abusers. They profit from it. So there is no incentive for them to ban those from the service. That is why government is stepping in.

I can't speak specifically for New York, but over here local governments have tried for years now to make a deal with Airbnb so people can rent out their place, but not fulltime and not through agencies and companies. 60 days a year, up to 4 people. Very reasonable limits. But Airbnb does not want that. You are making excuses for them, but the company itself as not lifted a finger to tackle this issue.

I'd call the cops on that. It's blatantly illegal on the part of your landlord and can get them thrown in jail.

There's obviously people who are using the service in a reasonable way, but when you hear stuff like this...

This has been an issue in NYC for a long time, AirBNB just made it way easier to do.

AirBNB has been breaking the illegal hotels law for the last 6 years, the city and state finally got fed up with them not abiding by the law.

So when will this law take effect? Im scheduling a trip to NYC in January and was planning to use AirBNB to save money versus the expensive hotels, would be a bummer if I can't.

Just FYI, AirBNB has been illegal in the city and state for years. This is just enforcement.

Will it now be legal if the hosts will be home?

It's always been legal if the hosts are home. It's only illegal if they aren't. The issue is hardly anyone follows the law.

 

[yellow submarine]

AirBnB doesn't drive up rent costs, though.

Anything that encourages people towards rent-seeking behavior will drive up housing costs. It's disgusting that people get money for doing fuckall and sitting on a property for a resource that everyone needs (i.e. housing). It is a pain in the ass if you do it without airbnb, but airbnb makes it so easy that even regular noobs are buying up property to put it on airbnb. That's wrong for society in general and I oppose this practice.

Don't even get me started on the bullshit scam that is paying some shmuck 6% of the house price every time you buy/sell a property for a fixed amount of work (i.e. no difference in work for a 500k house or 1m house).

 

[dcdobson]

I don't think the hate is about AirBnB as a customer, but what AirBnB does to neighborhood.

Right, but you can't have one without the other. I love the product, but if, as some have argued in this thread, it's driving up housing costs and undermining the character of neighborhoods, I'm okay with narrowing its use.

I'm a New Yorker, for the record.

 

[[Agent]ZeroNine]

This could lower rent by not allowing people to offset costs while living in hyper gentrified locations.

 

[metalslimer]

Wow. I didn't know so many people here hated Airbnb. I've had nothing but good experiences with it and it's my preferred way of board over hotels.

Its great as a user not so great having to deal with the effects living in a hot spot.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Idk why were even specifying abusers and non abusers.

We have zoning. I can't open a bar in my property without regulation, nor can I just open a store open to the public in my apartment. It's for residence. I personally dont care if you have 1 room or 100. Go to a hotel or hostel or have a host stay with you.

I don't want to live with people coming in and out. We outlawed boarding houses for these very reasons. Airbnb shouldn't be welcomed because they have venture capital money, sponsor marathons, and have a fancy websites.

I've had people leave the door open, lose keys, etc. It's absurd I have to deal with this so you can't cheap out on vacations. Housing is a right, cheap vacations aren't.

 

[Slayven]

.

http://valleywag.gawker.com/the-worst-airbnb-in-the-universe-22-beds-in-one-apartm-1630029953

 

[Nista]

I have mixed feelings about this, since we just used Airbnb to stay at a couple of different apartments in Tokyo and really enjoyed it. Staying in a hotel or even a ryokan wouldn't have given us the same local experience, and the hosts were pretty nice people. But I made an effort to stay away from the listings that were more obviously from people running it as a business.

I also like using it for stays in less urban centers where it's usually people renting out a spare room or section of a single family house. Those are obviously pretty rare in NYC of course, so I can see where the abuse can happen.

Real Estate prices in Socal would be screwed up even if Airbnb didn't exist - not like all the beach cities didn't have tons of their inventory reserved as vacation rentals already.

 

[B-Dubs]

.

http://valleywag.gawker.com/the-worst-airbnb-in-the-universe-22-beds-in-one-apartm-1630029953

I do want to note that stuff like this has happened before AirBNB, hence why the laws are the way they are, and that AirBNB has made doing stuff like this way easier than it used to be. The City and State have been after them for years to combat the illegal listings on their site, last year the City had to double the funding to it's illegal hotels taskforce as a result of AirBNB, but they've always refused to do shit about it.

This is what happens when you blatantly break the law for years and then do nothing when confronted with that fact.

 

[Slayven]

I do want to note that stuff like this has happened before AirBNB, hence why the laws are the way they are, and that AirBNB has made doing stuff like this way easier than it used to be. The City and State have been after them for years to combat the illegal listings on their site, last year the City had to double the funding to it's illegal hotels taskforce as a result of AirBNB, but they've always refused to do shit about it.

This is what happens when you blatantly break the law for years and then do nothing when confronted with that fact.

Shit looks like a prison, a Swedish prison, but still a prison.

 

[soco]

AirBnB doesn't drive up rent costs, though.

I'm assuming you're thinking of this fivethirtyeight article, but that's not what the article said. They just didn't find evidence of it (yet).

Part of the growing threat of AirBNB isn't the individuals renting out a spare bedroom, it's those doing it commercially, where they're buying up lots of properties and renting them out. Supposedly AirBnB's search algorithm attempts to hide the fact that this is happening, to keep up that 'average joe' feel. However, if you look closely, you'll start to see many people have multiple listings, which means they're effectively acting like a hotel and avoiding all the laws (and taxes) around that.

In some cities, it's already cheaper to rent hotels than it is to get AirBnB's, which is kind of insane.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

How do you get a local experience with airbnb without a host?

Your staying in an apartment not interacting with locals. You can do that from a hotel anyways there's nothing preventing you from interacting with locals there or going out, you can couch surf or staying with a host, hostel.

Staying in a random building doesn't give you a local experience beyond role playing while taking an apartment that could be used for actual living.

 

[Zoe]

Wait so lobbyists are calling airbnb spots "illegal hotels" now because they are run by public citizens? I guess these same people would have to refer to Uber as "illegal Taxi's". Good job lobbyists and special interests. You are more powerful than the public

They do. That's why many cities have TNC regulations now.