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NYT: Mueller Has Early Draft of Trump Letter Giving Reasons for Firing Comey

N

Nazgul_Hunter

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
Sounds normal proc.

You guys are overreacting here.
So a letter exists that Trump wrote where he says he doesn't like Comey. How is this big news?
I'm lost here.
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Because INTENT is the most difficult thing to prove in an obstruction of justice case.

A draft memo with wildly different reasons for firing Comey would show that the public reason was a sham to hide the true reason. That’s intent.
 
R

RockMkXIII

Neo Member
jiiikoo said:
MORE:

nayttokuva2017-09-01kjnsfg.png


https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/903700655977717760
Click to expand...


So does this imply that evidence is being destroyed ahead of investigation?
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
TesUsa said:
Because McGhan had it changed from its original draft and there could be proof of the real reason why 45 fired Comey
Click to expand...
But...he said he fired Comey because he was investigating the Russia thing. Like, he said it on LIVE TV...
What would a letter do??
Am I missing something?
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
But...he said he fired Comey because he was investigating the Russia thing. Like, he said it on LIVE TV...
What would a letter do??
Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Chronology - the draft letter predates the actual firing so it can't be waved away as POTUS misremembering a decision-making process.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
But...he said he fired Comey because he was investigating the Russia thing. Like, he said it on LIVE TV...
What would a letter do??
Click to expand...

What makes you think that what he said on TV isn't also being used in this investigation? Why would a letter than potentially reinforce that and make that allegation even more solid be worthless? Are you under the impression that he should have been impeached and replaced 24 hours after what he said on TV? That's not how the process works. Can't believe it constantly needs to be reiterated but Watergate took like TWO YEARS to effectively pin on Nixon. Any little bit of evidence is important, even if it doesn't satiate people's short attention spans.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Ninja Scooter said:
What makes you think that what he said on TV isn't also being used in this investigation? Why would a letter than potentially reinforce that and make that allegation even more solid be worthless? Are you under the impression that he should have been impeached and replaced 24 hours after what he said on TV? That's not how the process works. Can't believe it constantly needs to be reiterated but Watergate took like TWO YEARS to effectively pin on Nixon. Any little bit of evidence is important, even if it doesn't satiate people's short attention spans.
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I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
 
C

Con_Smith

Banned
-Plasma Reus- said:
I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
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I mean every week we get confirmation of his ties to Russia. Gotta go hard at this shit because if it ain't airtight these chucklefucks will find anyway to wiggle and squirm.
 
T

theWB27

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
Click to expand...

You said you get it... then said you didn't get what ninja just told you after saying you got it.

A letter reinforces. You want as much evidence as possible to have a little wiggle room as possible.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
-Plasma Reus- said:
I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
Click to expand...

This makes it harder to wiggle out of and adds Miller to the list of suspects/accomplices.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
Click to expand...

I don't think you do get it. The more evidence you have, the better. It's really not that hard to understand.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
theWB27 said:
You said you get it... then said you didn't get what ninja just told you after saying you got it.

A letter reinforces. You want as much evidence as possible to have a little wiggle room as possible.
Click to expand...
Okay, that makes sense.
It's more a case of quantity of evidence.


But I don't see why it's a huge thing. Just reinforces evidence already publicly available.
 
B

Brawndo Addict

Banned
-Plasma Reus- said:
I get it Ninja.
I'm just saying. I just don't understand what a letter could accomplish that verbally saying it on Live TV didn't. Unless there is more details. Like if he said " I don't appreciate you looking into my real estate deal for my new tower in Moscow".
Click to expand...

The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), or that he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.

A letter on the other hand, is a deliberate and slow paced writing process. I guess you could think of it like the difference between a crime of 'passion' and premeditation. Trump's words might be better evidence of his emotional state, while a letter provides better evidence of his mental or intellectual state (to the extent such a thing exists). A letter requires you to give your unorganized thoughts and feelings structure and reason; to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. It's not created in the 'heat of the moment'.
 
C

Con_Smith

Banned
-Plasma Reus- said:
Okay, that makes sense.
It's more a case of quantity of evidence.


But I don't see why it's a huge thing. Just reinforces evidence already publicly available.
Click to expand...

When you have a guy who gets shown talking about grabbing women by the pussy and moving on them like a bitch, and these ignorant mother fuckers still vote him in office, you bet your ass you're not gonna sit on him just admitting something on live television.

Also his Russian homeboys leaked the fact he told them the same thing and here we are amidst a flood of GOP concern and worry, no action.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Brawndo Addict said:
The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.

A letter on the other hand, is a deliberate and slow paced writing process. I guess you could think of it like the difference between a crime of 'passion' and premeditation. Trump's words might be better evidence of his emotional state, while a letter provides better evidence of his mental or intellectual state (to the extent such a thing exists). A letter requires you to separate the wheat from the chaff; to give your unorganized thoughts and feelings structure and reason. It's not created in the 'heat of the moment'.
Click to expand...


good point.
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Brawndo Addict said:
The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), or that he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.

A letter on the other hand, is a deliberate and slow paced writing process. I guess you could think of it like the difference between a crime of 'passion' and premeditation. Trump's words might be better evidence of his emotional state, while a letter provides better evidence of his mental or intellectual state (to the extent such a thing exists). A letter requires you to give your unorganized thoughts and feelings structure and reason; to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. It's not created in the 'heat of the moment'.
Click to expand...
Man, I hope when the actual charges are brought and things look bleak for Trump, his legal team actually argues the merit of a "memo of passion" or something equally dumb.
 
Oppo

Oppo

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), or that he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.
Click to expand...

we'll never get the satisfaction...

but I'd like to see someone challenge him to answer a question without using the word "very"

I don't think he could do it at all. he'd be like Derek Zoolander trying to turn left
 
B

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Brawndo Addict said:
The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), or that he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.

A letter on the other hand, is a deliberate and slow paced writing process. I guess you could think of it like the difference between a crime of 'passion' and premeditation. Trump's words might be better evidence of his emotional state, while a letter provides better evidence of his mental or intellectual state (to the extent such a thing exists). A letter requires you to give your unorganized thoughts and feelings structure and reason; to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. It's not created in the 'heat of the moment'.
Click to expand...

Fair point. Not to forget to include this isn't some 'dear diary' moment either. He had assistance in this written construction. Time on the President's watch and the country's dime was used in its creation with an "advisor" on hand.
 
S

Shadybiz

Member
Brawndo Addict said:
The way Trump speaks is bizarre; super low comprehension and vocabulary, constant exaggeration, jumping from thought to thought seemingly randomly, mimicry and reciprocation when prompted by others, etc. I fully expect an argument to be made that since he spews so much verbal diarrhea you can't judge his words in the same way you could judge a normal person. So they might argue he was just riffing and repeating what the reporter was saying (not that I believe this personally), or that he didn't really mean it and would have corrected himself if he realized the implications of his wording, blah blah blah.

A letter on the other hand, is a deliberate and slow paced writing process. I guess you could think of it like the difference between a crime of 'passion' and premeditation. Trump's words might be better evidence of his emotional state, while a letter provides better evidence of his mental or intellectual state (to the extent such a thing exists). A letter requires you to give your unorganized thoughts and feelings structure and reason; to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. It's not created in the 'heat of the moment'.
Click to expand...


Excellent point. It is sad, though, that if this letter didn't exist, his lawyers could defend his statements on television with a basic "He doesn't really know how to think so well."
 
J

jstripes

Banned
shiba5 said:
I think Putin might be done with Donny Two-Scoops:

#Russia's state TV host pours more gas on the fire, saying:
"So why did we elect such a President?
Audience claps.
https://t.co/SE8PZkkxup

(Note the "we".)

and

Politician on #Russia's state TV:
US doesn't have an adequate President, just an elderly, barely competent, nervously weary, fussy showman.
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/903659855411589121

Also, there is apparently more oppo droppo coming.
Click to expand...

Well, even if Trump completely failed in fixing the impasse in regards to adopting Russian orphans, he fulfilled his role in pitting Americans against each other and fucking up American politics for decades to come. His job has now run its course, and he's gonna learn that the group of cool kids that he wanted to sit with are even more disloyal than he is.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Wall Street Journal: "Trump drafted a letter to Comey saying he wanted him out because Comey wouldn't clear him publicly in Russia probe"
Paraphrasing the letter, the administration official said Mr. Trump wanted this message sent: ”You've told me three times I'm not under investigation but you won't tell the world, and it's hampering the country."
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Mr. Trump sought to take action because he saw the lingering investigation as a weight on his presidency, underscored by conversations with some foreign leaders who would bring up the Russia probe, according to the administration official. The president wrote the four-page letter with the help of a senior White House aide, Stephen Miller.

”It was the president's ideas. Miller was the scrivener," the administration official said.
Click to expand...
Last month, with the White House's consent, the Justice Department turned over the draft letter to Mr. Mueller, two administration officials said. The New York Times on Friday first reported on the letter.
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Mr. Trump drafted the letter just days after Mr. Comey's testimony to Congress on May 3 defending his handling of the Clinton email investigation in 2016.

Mr. Trump was ”offended" by the testimony, and complained about an ”arrogance" shown by Mr. Comey that wasn't appropriate given his position, the administration official said.

”It makes me mildly nauseous to think we might have had some impact on the election" won by Mr. Trump last November, Mr. Comey told the Senate Judiciary Committee in May. ”But honestly, it wouldn't change the decision."

The next day, a Thursday, Mr. Trump asked top aides about firing Mr. Comey, according to a person familiar with the conversation.

On Friday May 5, just before leaving for his Bedminster golf course, Mr. Trump dressed down two of his top aides—White House counsel Don McGahn and Steve Bannon, then his chief strategist—over Attorney General Jeff Sessions ' decision, two months earlier, to recuse himself from the Russian investigation.

White House reporters captured part of the argument on camera, including a video shot from outside the windows of the Oval Office that showed Mr. Bannon pointing and shouting.
Click to expand...
Aides said the Bedminister trip was mostly supposed to include time for golf and relaxation. The weather didn't cooperate, and Mr. Trump continued to be bothered by Mr. Comey's testimony. By Sunday, he was working up the letter with Mr. Miller and other aides.
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https://www.wsj.com/article_email/t...mey-out-1504303851-lMyQjAxMTA3MTA1MTcwNTE1Wj/
 
C

chadskin

Member
The Times updated its original report with additional details:

The long Bedminister weekend began late Thursday, May 4, when Mr. Trump arrived by helicopter, joined by a trio of advisers — his daughter, Ivanka; his son-in-law, Jared Kushner; and Mr. Miller. It rained during part of the weekend, forcing Mr. Trump to cancel golf with Greg Norman, the Australian golfer. Instead Mr. Trump stewed indoors, worrying about Mr. Comey and the Russia investigation.

The inquiry had already consumed the early months of his administration. Mr. Trump was angry that Mr. Comey had privately told him three times that he was not under investigation, yet would not clear his name publicly. Mr. Comey later confirmed in testimony to Congress in June that he had told the president that he was not under investigation, but said he did not make it public because the situation might change.

Mr. Miller and Mr. Kushner both told the president that weekend they were in favor of firing Mr. Comey.

Mr. Trump ordered Mr. Miller to draft a letter, and dictated his unfettered thoughts. Several people who saw Mr. Miller’s multi-page draft described it as a “screed.”

Mr. Trump was back in Washington on Monday, May 8, when copies of the letter were handed out in the Oval Office to senior officials, including Mr. McGahn and Vice President Mike Pence. Mr. Trump announced that he had decided to fire Mr. Comey, and read aloud from Mr. Miller’s memo.

Some present at the meeting, including Mr. McGahn, were alarmed that the president had decided to fire the F.B.I. director after consulting only Ms. Trump, Mr. Kushner and Mr. Miller. Mr. McGahn began an effort to stop the letter or at least pare it back.

Later that day, Mr. McGahn gave Mr. Miller a marked-up copy of the letter, highlighting several sections that he believed needed to be removed.

Mr. McGahn met again that same day with Mr. Trump and told him that if he fired Mr. Comey, the Russia investigation would not go away. Mr. Trump told him, according to senior administration officials, that he understood that firing the F.B.I. director might extend the Russia investigation, but he wanted to do it anyway.

Mr. McGahn arranged for the president to meet in the Oval Office that day with Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Mr. Rosenstein, whom he knew had been pursuing separate efforts to fire Mr. Comey. The two men were particularly angry about testimony Mr. Comey had given to the Senate Judiciary Committee the previous week, when he said “it makes me mildly nauseous” to think his handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation might have had an impact on the 2016 election.

Mr. Comey’s conduct during the hearing added to concerns of Mr. Sessions and Mr. Rosenstein that the F.B.I. director had botched the Clinton investigation and had overstepped the boundaries of his job. Shortly after that hearing, Mr. Rosenstein had expressed his concerns about Mr. Comey to a White House lawyer, who relayed details of the conversation to his bosses at the White House.

During the May 8 Oval Office meeting with Mr. Trump, Mr. Rosenstein was given a copy of the original letter and agreed to to write a separate memo for Mr. Trump about why Mr. Comey should be fired.

Mr. Rosenstein’s memo arrived at the White House the next day. The lengthy diatribe Mr. Miller had written had been replaced by a simpler rationale — that Mr. Comey should be dismissed because of his handling of the Clinton email investigation. Unlike Mr. Trump’s letter, it made no mention of the times Mr. Comey had told the president he was not under investigation.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/01/us/politics/trump-comey-firing-letter.html
 
C

chadskin

Member
Trump wanted to fire Comey for several weeks before he eventually pulled the trigger, per Politico:
In the prior weeks, Trump was increasingly obsessed with Comey and concerned that he was disloyal to the administration, aides and advisers said. Those sentiments came to a boil after Comey’s May 3 Senate testimony, where the FBI chief said he was “mildly nauseous” over the idea his actions in connection with the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email account may have swayed the presidential election.

Several senior White House officials including White House counsel Don McGahn, chief of staff Reince Priebus and chief strategist Steve Bannon advised Trump to delay Comey’s dismissal and warned that firing him amid widespread press coverage of allegations of Russian involvement in Trump’s campaign would trigger a firestorm, the sources said.

The men were able to delay the firing for several weeks, slowing but not stopping Trump’s decision as he fumed, by warning him of the consequences. Once Trump returned from New Jersey, it was clear he wasn’t changing his mind.

Then, the White House began frantically searching for how to explain the firing. McGahn had told Trump that the firing would be “less of a big deal” if it was handled properly and delayed, one person said, describing the conversations.

“It turned out to be what everyone was afraid of,” one adviser said. “A pivotal point for his presidency, and not a good one.”
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http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/01/trump-aides-letter-fbi-comey-firing-242262
 
B

BrassDragon

Member
The claim that Comey told Trump 'three times that he was not under investigation' appears to be wrong. As per Comey's testimony, he said it during the 'pledge loyalty' dinner on January 27 and then again in the 'everybody leave the Oval so we can talk about Flynn' meeting on February 14.

The last time they had contact was in April when POTUS called Comey and pressured him to publicly state that Trump wasn't being investigated. Comey says he dodged and referred him to the DoJ.

By that time, Flynn's financial ties had led the FBI to Kushner's business operations so chances are, Comey knew that the investigation was going to involve Trump.

That April phone call must have been the catalyst for the firing (if Trump was already thinking about it for 'weeks' prior to the Clinton email hearing in May.)
 
T

tanod

when is my burrito
Key word from Comey in terms of investigation has always been "personally." His statement never meant that Trump's campaign or his administration or his businesses were not under investigation. As the principal shareholder/leader of those organizations, Trump could have been in deep shit at the time Comey said it. Comey knew that the president and his supporters and probably most Americans wouldn't understand the distinction. What's fucking sad is that Trump believes, even now, that he's not in deep shit when he clearly is politically, if not also legally.
 
C

chadskin

Member
BrassDragon said:
That April phone call must have been the catalyst for the firing (if Trump was already thinking about it for 'weeks' prior to the Clinton email hearing in May.)
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I still find it curious Comey was fired just as the FBI's Russia probe was accelerating:
In the weeks before President Donald Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, a federal investigation into potential collusion between Trump associates and the Russian government was heating up, as Mr. Comey became increasingly occupied with the probe.

Mr. Comey started receiving daily instead of weekly updates on the investigation, beginning at least three weeks ago, according to people with knowledge of the matter and the progress of the Federal Bureau of Investigation probe. Mr. Comey was concerned by information showing potential evidence of collusion, according to these people.

White House officials said Wednesday that Mr. Trump had for months been contemplating the possibility of removing Mr. Comey, and that the dismissal this week wasn’t connected to the Russian probe.
Click to expand...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/james-...on-before-being-fired-u-s-official-1494433061
 
M

Mulberry

Member
S

Shadow Puppetry

Member
“You’ve told me three times I’m not under investigation but you won’t tell the world, and it’s hampering the country.”

Hampering the country? Comey did said you weren't under investigation at the time BUT now you are. Christ, where's Kelly to draw a simple picture for Trump to explain it?
 
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