Consumers shouldn't look the other way, but I won't condemn employees for keeping a job. If only our nation's unemployed could be more badass!
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Oculus holds "diversity luncheon;" refuses to address Luckey questions. CEO needs mom
- Thread starter FinaruDensetsu
- Start date
Consumers shouldn't look the other way, but I won't condemn employees for keeping a job. If only our nation's unemployed could be more badass!
At this point I'm seriously starting to think that upper management at Oculus are actually GamerGaters/alt right themselves.
They are all old-school dinosaurs from the game industry's boys club past.
Exempt from punishment,absolutely not. But the guy is young, he's been thrown into the spotlight with 100s of millions of dollars, probably questioning who his real friends are - that would make anyone a little bit crazy.That doesn't excuse his actions, but it at least leaves room for optimism that he's not a complete irredeemable monster. If he continues with similar shitty behaviors, then yeah fire his ass. But at the moment, he presumably has not, and he's hopefully learned from all of this and striving to become a better person. However, I do totally understand why people would refuse to buy an Oculus and they shouldn't be convinced otherwise; it's now on Facebook to respond appropriately and silence is not the answer.
Personally I myself have walked away from companies whom I do not believe in for unethical and unfair practices. Even gotten several high upper managements lose a 6 figure salary whom have been with the companies for this same issues and more. Recently just last week I walked away from a company which I was being paid well for blast them for bigotry, unfair practices, and mistreatment of its workers. Originally they werent like that till the new CEOs took over. I've already gotten a new job and start next week at the new company. Heck the new company is paying for my continue education and another degree. I'm still going to do something about the previous employer though.
Giftofgab24
Member
Yes we are. He's wrong. They could fire him with no justification if they wanted to.
I'm thinking the theory that if they fire him he'll angrily join Zenimax's team in the lawsuit against Oculus is a pretty plausible explanation.
Fuck the women and minorities that work for us, we could potentially lose 6% of our profits from the settlement if we fire him. Not worth it.
http://www.polygon.com/virtual-real...y-not-palmer-luckey-at-oculus-connect-keynote
If the shitstain were to resign or be fired it would have happened already. I have a hard time believing they would let him stay unless they somehow thought the ramifications for letting him go would be worse.
I'm still sticking with Oculus for this gen of VR. Despite the ignorant response from the executives I don't believe Oculus should be held responsible for Luckey's actions.
Though I totally understand why people would boycott them over this.
Yeah the tweet is a nice try when when you're a company wanting to profit off people then those people have a right to tackle you as a whole entity when your founder is an arse-hat.
I'm certainly not going to get be supporting Oculus.
hooijdonk17
Member
Facebook is a cancer and Oculus died for me the day the two went to bed.
His long term girlfriend is a long time gamergater. He's a shitlord.
Palette Swap
Member
In that case, the only solution is to make it even less profitable to keep him on board by making sure they tank.
Although at this point, their silence and limp dick answers are complicit too, so fuck that company.
staticneuron
Member
Donating money to something in his own words that is "I thought the organization had fresh ideas on how to communicate with young voters through the use of several billboards." Even if it is alt right, there is a very thin line between being prejudiced and being outright racist.
The entire reason stuff like this still exist despite the laws we have in this country (and the seedy crap that goes down in other countries as well) is because this stuff is implied under guise of political speech. Just like with certain news station and coded words that we know the meaning to. Unless things are explicit I don't think our legal system is set up to take on things like that. But unless you can define the entire movement as a hate group instead of s twisted political ideology then people who support this stuff still are afforded legal protections.
One of which, is to not get fired for supporting something under a political guise. Now if this was the KKK or any other overt racist organization oculus probably would have more freedom to act.
But again, none of what has been countered disproves the notion that they probably have hands tied by legal or contractual obligation.
EDIT: just to make it clear here, I don't support Palmer or his views and would rather he be fired. I just think it is sad that the entire company has people taking up pitchforks and seemingly don't care about any possible reasons why they couldn't just kick palmer to curb.
I've made it clear previously what I think of this whole thing, and that hasn't changed. In fact, if anything their handling has made it worse, and these whole pseudo-reconciliation efforts are detestable.
Still, I do want to point out that I really don't see anything wrong with the statement “We are having a hard time hiring all the people we want. It doesn’t matter what they look like” from Carmack. I don't think it's a good idea to, even with the current situation, try and twist every word anyone at Oculus has ever said against them.
Still, I do want to point out that I really don't see anything wrong with the statement “We are having a hard time hiring all the people we want. It doesn’t matter what they look like” from Carmack. I don't think it's a good idea to, even with the current situation, try and twist every word anyone at Oculus has ever said against them.
I agree that that statement has nothing wrong. I take it to mean "skill is skill, and race/gender/whatever doesn't matter." That's a good thing.
It's the bit about him ignoring everything that's happening and his pr guy being a dick that bothers me.
You're right that there is nothing wrong with the wording, and it's probably true as well, but it's being jumped upon because it's a deflection
If you asked any company with mostly male board members/employers about the gender gap, and they replied with that, it's not exactly answering the question
Pretty much any company that wants to get out of fair hiring practices could say that
FinaruDensetsu
Member
That just makes them a social non profit. They aren't registered as a PAC even though they're taking donations to help a nominee get elected.
They don't even qualify as a 501(c)4 as they exclude people and weren't formed for the betterment of society.
hooijdonk17
Member
To be fair he just snickered somewhat acknowledging the shitshow going on if I read it correctly; it's the PR guy he is assigned, which I assume is a corporate clown he has no control over, that was being a royal dick..
Carmack really deserved a better seat than this.. Hope his contract allows him to jump ship to VR game development and wash his hands clean of Oculus at this point. Someone like Carmack developing actually mindblowing games for VR would go a long way to making it an interesting platform..
Also, while I don't live in the US, I would be a minority if I did and honestly what Carmack said (regarding not caring about what people look like) doesn't sit wrong with me in anyway - it actually makes me feel he is open to diversity but is pointing out that he couldn't cherry pick even if he could or had to..
The alt-right is literally a rebranding of white supremacists. Richard Spencer, a white supremacist, literally created the term. The organization and people Palmer funded have cyberstalked and targeted Jewish reporters using neo-Nazi labels. Set up "charitable" scholarships for white males to go to (and allegedly pocketed the donations). Stirred up 9/11 conspiracy theories. Do everything in their power to promote misogyny, racism, hate, and hate speech.
They claim freedom of speech is under fire by moral attitudes, then use quite literally the worst, immoral responses of hate as a rebuttal in attempt to stifle their opponents freedom of speech.
staticneuron
Member
I know what they are but let me requote for emphasis.
So.. I am sorry if I offend anyone but I believe fox news and other various "news" outlets owned by Rupert Murdoch and family to be racist. But not overtly so. They push stereotypical views and bigoted points of view using coded language and bias. They have said some incendiary stuff but haven't really crossed the line to my knowledge. But because they do so without being overt about it. They are allowed to exist on our TV screens and are supported by many people that try to conflate conservatism with supremacy. But you cannot silence implied bias because of freedom of speech and you need actual proof for racism (legally speaking not belief wise). So all I am pointing out is that the reason Palmer couldn't be fired for his support could be the same reason some people may keep their job after parading some "truths" from fox news or trump. The implication is there but proof of breaking the law isn't.
Of course, Palmer isn't going to be arrested for what he did, but there's no overt protection under the law from losing his job. It's not illegal to be racist and hate filled. That doesn't mean executives who own the company he worked for can't terminate his employment.
Edit - Obviously, none of us know the details of his conrtact, so I don't know what clause(s) is in place to keep him there, but if Facebook execs wanted him gone, I have no doubt he'd be gone. Their lack of statement on this matter is disturbing.
Tranqueris
Banned
She's also racist as fuck. A fact that Palmer Luckey seems pretty comfortable with. He also follows someone on Twitter who has beliefs like:
Palmer Luckey is not someone who said something stupid or made a mistake, there is a clear pattern here.
User123456
Member
So basically, coercion without force does not exist? Gotcha, Luckey. Guess we can just eliminate "blackmail" from our vocabulary then.
therealbigrich
Member
Lucky must have something big on someone to not be fired yet
Trying to separate this for emphasis.
Police officers, firefighters, who are tasked with protecting and serving citizens have been fired for saying alot less than what Palmer donated to and supports. If they are held to high standards when many times they are saving lives, and risking their own to do it, I think Luckey could be fired and not be considered absurd.
Perfect response.
Birds of a feather flock together.
Chris Rock said in a stand up one time...its better to be with someone that you have similar things in common. You cant be saying, I'm getting ready to go to church and they came back with, ok, I'm about to smoke some crack!!
Opposites do attract but when you deal with someone that has racists views, beliefs....thats a lil on the extreme side of being attracted to your opposite.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
They're more of a hobbyist garage shop than an actual company with professionals.
Vincent Grayson
Member
I could swear I remember reading some studies that suggested the old "opposites attract" thing is largely a myth. Not that there won't be outliers, but that people very much tend to go for people like them.
ShadowKingpin
Member
Wasn't Carmack always an asshat?
Memorabilia
Member
Every time I think I've seen the most embarrassing thing possible in this industry, something else comes along and proves me wrong. The checks must be big and the workspace fairly autonomous for Carmack to put up with this kind of junior high school bullshit.
Really surprised Facebook hasn't distanced themselves from Luckey, but they must have determined the "incident" PR fallout was mostly self-contained within tech-nerd circles like GAF and that acknowledging it in any way would only spread the contagion to the general populace, most of whom have no idea what the hell this is all about.
Really surprised Facebook hasn't distanced themselves from Luckey, but they must have determined the "incident" PR fallout was mostly self-contained within tech-nerd circles like GAF and that acknowledging it in any way would only spread the contagion to the general populace, most of whom have no idea what the hell this is all about.
That's really easy to say from where we're sitting. But you're not them, so you're not in a position to understand the individual circumstances that don't allow each person to easily walk out of a job. Not everyone at the company is millionaire rockstar with equivalent employment opportunities at his fingertips. Most are ordinary people with families, bills and debt to pay and who would go through a rough period of prolonged job searching.
This whole quit your job, don't support the bad company thing... it stinks of the same ignorance of telling people to "just move" to improve their life circumstances.
Bloodporne
Member
Was about to type something similar. If all paths out were as fucking easy as people imply from a standpoint of ignorance of the inner workings of this particular work place, they'd most likely be taken. I'm pretty sure nobody WANTS to work with this person but alas, this is real life where lofty moral ambitions can almost never trump (no pun intended, seriously) the system's machinery.
If you actually knew how difficult it is for even skilled people to get another job in the gaming industry, you'd never spew this ignorant garbage.
Its really sad to see people here just flat out cursing the whole company despite the one person amongst 1000s is the asshole. People who don'tshare the same view as palmer worked hard on this product and its pity that some people are just vicing their disgust because of one guy.
Admit it, there is also an asshole and racist in your company.
Admit it, there is also an asshole and racist in your company.
his girlfriend is completely open about her abhorrent views, luckey hides his. opposites!
Klart
Member
The disgust lies in the fact the company turns a blind eye to that asshole's/racist actions.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
Oculus can piss off after this. If I ever get enough money, I'm buying a Vive.
unfortunately companies have a lot of power in this country(supreme court ruled a while back they can be like people), and these companies throw their influence into a lot of things. So if this company is employing people like luckey its fair game to criticize the whole company.
It's not because of the one person, its because of how the company reacts to that one person.
Which was:
1) "We respect everyone's political opinion", acting as if racism and hate-speech are valid opinions worth discussing and the same as every other non-racist opinion
2) Plugging their fingers into their ears and ignoring the whole event
PandaShake
Member
What a bizarre but surprisingly accurate title.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
Oculus can fuck off tbh
If that person is your founder and your ceo and head of content both put out statements supporting him as a person then it doesn't really matter how many awesome mid level employees you have, it's rotten at the top.
Burn it the fuck down.
I have all the reason in the world to be against the alt-right, and accordingly I am disgusted with Palmer Luckey and disappointed in the rest of Oculus for how they are handling him. That said if I was offered support money from Oculus' diversity outreach program or any other similar money hat I would take it. Voting with your wallet implies you have an income to spend or withhold. So frankly I don't blame any developer for continuing to support Oculus.
Whoa, good point! Now that I think of it, every company I've worked for had a founder that took profits from my work and invested it in a hate speech group.
Golly gee, I guess it just happens everywhere. Nothing to see here folks.
What's wrong with Carmack's phrase?