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[Kinitari]

I was talking to this girl about the stoning of the woman in Afghanistan and she unfortunately said that Islam is to blame for abuses of women in these societies. I tried to explain to her that it was culture combined with radicalized war mentality but she chose to simply say "lets agree to disagree".

Such shame....

In other news i've come to the conclusion that the idea of devotion to God is supposed to stop conflicts ideally.

Instead of worshipping an ideology or immaterial things the focus is on a universal concept that everything can relate to.

The problem with religions like Islam and this idea is - you devote yourself to Allah, and do it right, and everyone is cool. But become an apostate for example...

Kad5

there were many things wrong that it is irrelavent to the actual practice of Islam in that case, first for such punishment you need 4 witnesses to witness the adultary and those 4 needs to see them actually I mean ACTUALLY doing it - you need to see by your own eyes the P**** inside the v***** - otherwise those 4 witnesses should be all lushes and their credibilty will be lost forever !!

then you need a judge not someone from the street to make this decision, and Afghanistan and Taliban are the worst examples if actually you could consider them examples of Islam.

The problem with this idea is... it doesn't seem to contextually make sense. When will 4 people (4 males by the way, it can't be women - as women can't be witnesses) all be watching people fuck? Did people just... bang out in the open back in the day? And on top of that, witnesses can just gang up on someone they like and make a claim about them doing this that or the other thing, and to top it off, stoning in itself is still a punishment that resides in the book - which is abhorrent. If they didn't want people stoned, don't prescribe it as punishment.

This is another reason why me and a religion can't get along, how can I appreciate any religion when it has shit like that interspersed throughout the teachings?

 

[phosphor112]

I was talking to this girl about the stoning of the woman in Afghanistan and she unfortunately said that Islam is to blame for abuses of women in these societies. I tried to explain to her that it was culture combined with radicalized war mentality but she chose to simply say "lets agree to disagree".

Such shame....

In other news i've come to the conclusion that the idea of devotion to God is supposed to stop conflicts ideally.

Instead of worshipping an ideology or immaterial things the focus is on a universal concept that everything can relate to.

Lol.. stonings are pre-islamic, and honor killings aren't even from the religion.

 

[barrico]

Kinitari

The problem with this idea is... it doesn't seem to contextually make sense. When will 4 people (4 males by the way, it can't be women - as women can't be witnesses) all be watching people fuck? Did people just... bang out in the open back in the day? And on top of that, witnesses can just gang up on someone they like and make a claim about them doing this that or the other thing, and to top it off, stoning in itself is still a punishment that resides in the book - which is abhorrent. If they didn't want people stoned, don't prescribe it as punishment.

you are right you need 4 males, I understand your point, but to me the whole idea is about " setr " in arabic, I don't know the exact word in English but it means that you always try not to spoil the reputation of others, specially a married woman, this whole punishment and its difficulties to show the 4 males that such sacred bond as marrige is not tolarable by any means in Islam, by nature people love gossiping, with such strict rules no one will gossip about a married woman.

also you are talking about a death sentence here, it needs to be very very difficult.
the problem is with the people not with the punishment itself.

 

[Kad5]

Non-muslim here.

IMO there have been societies that tried to build peace amongst differing understandings of the world, bringing their differing perspectives on God together so that they could co-exist.

The prophet decried this as idolotry. He smashed the idols in the kaaba that had been brought together to unify people.

Islam is one of the least universalist religions on earth. It demands exclusivity. Its the reason why it's the only religion to forge divisions in places like India, which was usually accommodating to all differing manners of religion.

I'm not even trying to be critical of Islam, per se, but I am saying that the idea of "Allah is a universal concept for everyone" is itself an exclusivist concept that not everyone will be able to get on board with.

I can understand but honestly many muslims worship Islam rather than God. They choose to factionalize themselves. That is what happens with many people.

And of course the prophet smashing the idols also has to do with the fact that there was money and an economy tied to the practice of bringing idols into the kabbah and worshipping them.

I understand Islam as something similar to Panentheism.

 

[Kinitari]

Kinitari

you are right you need 4 males, I understand your point, but to me the whole idea is about " setr " in arabic, I don't know the exact word in English but it means that you always try not to spoil the reputation of others, specially a married woman, this whole punishment and its difficulties to show the 4 males that such sacred bond as marrige is not tolarable by any means in Islam, by nature people love gossiping, with such strict rules no one will gossip about a married woman.

also you are talking about a death sentence here, it needs to be very very difficult.
the problem is with the people not with the punishment itself.

So you're saying the whole verse about needing 4 witnesses to the adultery is just... some impossible to achieve goal to teach people a lesson? Why not just say "Hey, don't go talking about people cheating on each other, let the couple work it out - if someone cheats on the other, they can just leave them".

Done, no weird gymanstics trying to make sense of the 4 men watching law, no abhorrent death penalty (even if I were for the death penalty, why not just do a clean beheading or some shit? Stoning is soooo terribly cruel).

When the book endorses these options, it encourages the stonings and the ill-treatment of women (why can't they be witnesses? honestly?) - if we want to say that it's the people, not the punishment itself, when does the punishment (or the book that endorses it) come under scrutiny? Never, I guess.

 

[barrico]

Non-muslim here.

The prophet decried this as idolotry. He smashed the idols in the kaaba that had been brought together to unify people.

Islam is one of the least universalist religions on earth. It demands exclusivity. Its the reason why it's the only religion to forge divisions in places like India, which was usually accommodating to all differing manners of religion.

I'm not even trying to be critical of Islam, per se, but I am saying that the idea of "Allah is a universal concept for everyone" is itself an exclusivist concept that not everyone will be able to get on board with.

but the idols were not in Kaaba to unify the poeple, before Islam there were many slaves in that ( unified ) society if you would like to call it, Islam came and make all people even, and started encourging the poeple to release those slaves and give them their freedom, in Islam before 1400 there were no difference between a black skin man and white skin man.

Problem with India or any where else is related to the people not the actual concept of university of Islam, one of the first teachings is that you are not forcing the people to convert to islam by force " you have your religion and I have mine "
this stated clearly in the Qura'an.

 

[barrico]

So you're saying the whole verse about needing 4 witnesses to the adultery is just... some impossible to achieve goal to teach people a lesson? Why not just say "Hey, don't go talking about people cheating on each other, let the couple work it out - if someone cheats on the other, they can just leave them".

Done, no weird gymanstics trying to make sense of the 4 men watching law, no abhorrent death penalty (even if I were for the death penalty, why not just do a clean beheading or some shit? Stoning is soooo terribly cruel).

When the book endorses these options, it encourages the stonings and the ill-treatment of women (why can't they be witnesses? honestly?) - if we want to say that it's the people, not the punishment itself, when does the punishment (or the book that endorses it) come under scrutiny? Never, I guess.

let's put everything in the prospective, in all the societies there will be husband/wife who cheat in this marrige bond, you need a law that defined what is what, and the punishment.

first you need to identify the crime and what is called a crime, here this " impossible " goal is to identify the crime itself, a man and woman doing it, ACTUALLY doing it.

then you need to put some restrictions - like you need 4 males - to say that those two persons did it.

Finally the punishment, which is the stooning here we can have debate about it, it is cruel yeah, but also it teaches everyone that marrige/family which are the core of any society is something so sacred that you don't mess with it.

Think of all the consequenses of such thing - cheating in marrige - and then you can judge weather this punishment is cruel or not.

 

[F#A#Oo]

and to top it off, stoning in itself is still a punishment that resides in the book - which is abhorrent. If they didn't want people stoned, don't prescribe it as punishment.

Stoning is not in the Qu'ran...

 

[BocoDragon]

I can understand but honestly many muslims worship Islam rather than God. They choose to factionalize themselves. That is what happens with many people.

And of course the prophet smashing the idols also has to do with the fact that there was money and an economy tied to the practice of bringing idols into the kabbah and worshipping them.

I understand Islam as something similar to Panentheism.

That's pretty interesting. In my study of the Islamic conception of god I have discerned a similar meaning myself.

But in my opinion (and to each his own), the rest of the religion: the rules, the culture, etc, I do not see such universality. As it is practiced it seems designed to keep me, in my cultural makeup, far outside. Its language and practices do not speak to me, though I can understand the appeal if it did.

but the idols were not in Kaaba to unify the poeple, before Islam there were many slaves in that ( unified ) society if you would like to call it, Islam came and make all people even, and started encourging the poeple to release those slaves and give them their freedom, in Islam before 1400 there were no difference between a black skin man and white skin man.

Problem with India or any where else is related to the people not the actual concept of university of Islam, one of the first teachings is that you are not forcing the people to convert to islam by force " you have your religion and I have mine "
this stated clearly in the Qura'an.

I do respect that doctrine.

But regardless of the original meaning behind the Prophet rejecting idols/imagery in that particular time, that precedent has made Islam quite un-adaptable to many other concepts of religion. It rejects all the other imagery and theological language it has come into contact with, and it is unlikely to dialogue compromise with other faith traditions (even if such compromise were to allow other cultures a path to Allah).

It is the polar opposite of Buddhism in that sense (which is a religion which is so utterly unconcerned with the "language" and "imagery" of practice that it subversively slips into all kinds of cultures... even scientism/atheism).

 

[Kad5]

Stoning is not in the Qu'ran...

Correct stoning is nowhere in the Quran as a punishment. It's a pre-islamic practice that occurred in various cultures in the middle east.

 

[Kinitari]

Stoning is not in the Qu'ran...

When I think about it, you're right I don't actually remember the method prescribed - do they even prescribe a particular method?

 

[SmokyDave]

When I think about it, you're right I don't actually remember the method prescribed - do they even prescribe a particular method?

100 lashes.

 

[barrico]

When I think about it, you're right I don't actually remember the method prescribed - do they even prescribe a particular method?

yeah I was surprised also that it is not mentioned, usually Qura'an is very clear in describing such things, for example if you want to give some one money as a loan it was written in full details, who should say the amount and to whom, the witnesses the descibtion of the money or the good etc etc ... in full details.

======

BocoDragon

It rejects all the other imagery and theological language it has come into contact with, and it is unlikely to dialogue compromise with other faith traditions (even if such compromise were to allow other cultures a path to Allah).

can you please elaborate more with examples so we can have very healthy discussion ?

 

[Laughing Banana]

Sorry for the late reply but thanks for clearing it up. So in case of the Evening prayer, I could pray it at say 1 AM and it'd be OK?

Also, I've been wondering about something, but please do excuse my wording as I'm trying to write this as best and comprehensible as I can.
I understand that consuming alcohol is taboo, however from what I've understood what is bad for one's health, state of mind and body is taboo, and anything that doesn't harm one is 'halal'.
As such, would using alcoholic drinks such as wine etc. for the purpose of cooking, is it allowed?

Evening as in Isya? Actually, now that I have been digging a bit deeper into it, there is actually a bit of conflicted opinion on this issue. Some say the limit for Isya is up until Shubuh prayers--this is mostly held by Imam Abu Hanifah and the followers of Hanafiyah and Syafi'iyah. The second is 1/3rd of night, which is held by the Malikiyah. The other opinion, from Hanabilah, is largely the same with the second opinion with one difference: the limit is 1/3rd of the night but in case of emergencies it is allowed to go beyond the limit to perform the prayers. The fourth opinion, as held by Ats Tsauri, Ibnul Mubarok, Ishaq, Abu Tsaur, Ash-habur ro'yi, and Imam Asy Syafi'i is the limit is the middle of the night (counted from the time of Maghrib and Shubuh, so if Maghrib is 6 P.M.. and Shubuh is 4 A.M., the middle of the night is not 12 o clock. but rather 11 P.M.)

The general consensus held by most people is--well, most people where I live here in Indonesia anyways, as far as I am aware, it is alright to pray Isya past midnight and before the arrival of the Shubuh prayers. But of course, not dallying doing prayers is the better choice

As for your other question, as far as I am aware, consuming alcohol in large or small quantities is forbidden except in emergencies.

 

[Canis lupus]

OttomanScribe, where you tryin to say that in order to understand the Quran someone MUST have a good understand of Arabic? That the Quran in another language doesn't convey the message "as it was meant to be conveyed"?

That would be wrong. My parents sent me to camps to learn reading Quran since I was 9. It didnt help me to understand Quran better. I was just reciting verses I didnt understand.

 

[Permanently A]

That would be wrong. My parents sent me to camps to learn reading Quran since I was 9. It didnt help me to understand Quran better. I was just reciting verses I didnt understand.

Exactly how I feel. My parents force me to pray and read and memorize in Arabic and I don't understand a damn thing.

 

[archnemesis]

Are none of the Quran schools focused on discussion and analysis?

 

[barrico]

Exactly how I feel. My parents force me to pray and read and memorize in Arabic and I don't understand a damn thing.

It is very difficult, as Arabic native speaker, I find it very very difficult to understand Qura'an in english or even transelate it.

 

[crazy monkey]

Are none of the Quran schools focused on discussion and analysis?

out of billions of schools ? Many many of them do the discussion and analysis. It all depends upon where you go and who you learn with.

 

[Permanently A]

It is very difficult, as Arabic native speaker, I find it very very difficult to understand Qura'an in english or even transelate it.

I can understand that, but surely understanding some is better than understanding none at all?

 

[barrico]

I can understand that, but surely understanding some is better than understanding none at all?

yeah sure, in case you needed any help just PM me or post it here I will try my best to transelate it to you.

 

[phosphor112]

I can understand that, but surely understanding some is better than understanding none at all?

We can get the general jist of things. I'm still doing group recitations even today just to make sure I keep up on my Arabic and what not. We go through several different translations through the process.

I use this.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0940368846/?tag=neogaf0e-20

This isn't what the majority uses. This is commentary for twelver Shias. Only a few details (in the commentary) differ between Shia's and Sunnis, so overall it's very invaluable and provides translations in full context.

 

[stn]

Just a question...

So I'm a Christian guy who was close to a Muslim (Sunni) girl. Her family wasn't fond of me because I'm not Muslim. Just curious on what the general cultural view is on mixed relationships???

Thanks.

 

[Salih]

afaik

male muslim + female non-muslim = no problem
male non-muslim + female muslim = problem

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Hey, I've made a thread on body/mind/spiritual self-improvement, and am looking for people interested in writing up a guide on how to improve one or several aspects of spirituality.
Feel free to write them with other muslims in mind if you so desire, but anything applicable to people of other religions and no religions would be great.

Thread.

 

[Kad5]

afaik

male muslim + female non-muslim = no problem
male non-muslim + female muslim = problem

Yeah that's usually the historic norm.

If it was me I wouldn't care though tbh.

 

[RustyNails]

But regardless of the original meaning behind the Prophet rejecting idols/imagery in that particular time, that precedent has made Islam quite un-adaptable to many other concepts of religion. It rejects all the other imagery and theological language it has come into contact with, and it is unlikely to dialogue compromise with other faith traditions (even if such compromise were to allow other cultures a path to Allah).

It is the polar opposite of Buddhism in that sense (which is a religion which is so utterly unconcerned with the "language" and "imagery" of practice that it subversively slips into all kinds of cultures... even scientism/atheism).

I'm not sure I follow why you're trying to judge a religion by how much it meshes with other religion? If a religion is more meshable, what will be the point of a religion be then? That would make it a bad religion. Buddhism is more of a philosophy rather than a set of dogmas, which allows you to follow Buddhist principles while even being a Muslim.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Are none of the Quran schools focused on discussion and analysis?

It's not about discussion and analysis so much as its prestigious for parents to say their kid is hafiz (someone who's memorized the Qu'ran).

Basically the order of priority is;

1)Knowing how to read Arabic.
2)Reading with proper Tajweed i.e correct recitation rules.
3) Memorizing the Qu'ran. Becoming a Hafiz.
4) Understanding what you recite. This is a rare skill and few truly ever accomplish it.

Most Muslims are on 1 or 2. Points 3-4 are seen as optional by many and others just don't have the dedication and time required to be able to meet the latter points.

 

[archnemesis]

That was the impression I've got from discussing it with other Muslims. It would be nice if the schools allowed more room for interpretation and discussion about the students thoughts on the content, instead of leaving that to senior religious authorities.

 

[Salih]

That was the impression I've got from discussing it with other Muslims. It would be nice if the schools allowed more room for interpretation and discussion about the students thoughts on the content, instead of leaving that to senior religious authorities.

if you really want to learn the interpretations and such, a quran school is not really the place for it. there are other possibilities.
f.ex. my uncle is studying Islamic studies (at a university here in germany) and he is free to talk about interpretations with other students and his profs. Moreover, my uncle told me the prof encourages them to question certain ideas and meanings in order to find solutions and therefore a way to (fully) understand it.

 

[Ashes]

Just a question...

So I'm a Christian guy who was close to a Muslim (Sunni) girl. Her family wasn't fond of me because I'm not Muslim. Just curious on what the general cultural view is on mixed relationships???

Thanks.

We've discussed this in detail earlier in the thread, if you would like a more in depth view. I'm only sorry I can't do the searches for you.

 

[Kisaya]

So how do you guys feel about engaging in friendly conversation/contact with someone of the opposite sex? Or do you all see it as a big sin and "lower your gaze"?

It's honestly no big deal to me, but a lot of people I know, including my family, see it as a problem. Just wondering if there's anyway I can resolve this.

 

[ZiZ]

So how do you guys feel about engaging in friendly conversation/contact with someone of the opposite sex? Or do you all see it as a big sin and "lower your gaze"?

It's honestly no big deal to me, but a lot of people I know, including my family, see it as a problem. Just wondering if there's anyway I can resolve this.

honestly it's never been a problem for me, when confronted by a female I simply stutter a bit, fidget awkwardly then run away.

 

[Ashes]

So how do you guys feel about engaging in friendly conversation/contact with someone of the opposite sex? Or do you all see it as a big sin and "lower your gaze"?

It's honestly no big deal to me, but a lot of people I know, including my family, see it as a problem. Just wondering if there's anyway I can resolve this.

I actively encourage it. I deplore the idea that men and women everywhere think of themselves merely as sex objects. There are some of us who don't do that. Or those who don't want to do or think like that atleast.

Women have a lot of interesting things to say. Men have a lot of interesting things to say.

Freemixing won't lead to sex; ask any male gaffer on here.

As to family, I suppose you can make the argument I make: I don't want to be a dumb deaf mute. I am an intelligent human being who can speak. Propriety be damned. Or I will say that were someone to ask me.

My advice is not really helpful as usual. But there you go.

 

[Tizoc]

@Banana- Thanks for clearing it up bro~

Also Ramadhan Mubarak everyone =3

 

[Kinitari]

@Banana- Thanks for clearing it up bro~

Also Ramadhan Mubarak everyone =3

WHAT? It's Ramadhan already? Goddamnit it... I hate this time of the year.

 

[Kisaya]

WHAT? It's Ramadhan already? Goddamnit it... I hate this time of the year.

Not until Friday for me. I don't hate fasting and all, but I'm pretty much on lockdown at home which is annoying.

Thanks you two for the responses btw. Pretty much what I've been preaching, but it's hard for them to understand especially when you have scholars and what not state that it's forbidden. Just was wondering if there was any other approach I can take for them to get there's no harm behind it.

 

[Kinitari]

Not until Friday for me. I don't hate fasting and all, but I'm pretty much on lockdown at home which is annoying.

The problem is, I hate fasting and I am not Muslim, but I always have to watch my back during ramadhan because if someone catches me out in public eating, I'll have to deal with that getting back to my family. It's the worst.

Thanks you two for the responses btw. Pretty much what I've been preaching, but it's hard for them to understand especially when you have scholars and what not state that it's forbidden. Just was wondering if there was any other approach I can take for them to get there's no harm behind it.

There was a video I watched, it was a part of a series of videos that had muslims debating other muslims about particular points. One was on the role of females in society, and how they should behave, and what sort of interactions were appropriate. A lot of scholars are starting to come out in support of giving women more respect, and of understanding that a woman can be in a position like... manager of a lawyer firm, so she'll have to casually converse with many men - and that sort of interaction is okay.

 

[Kisaya]

The problem is, I hate fasting and I am not Muslim, but I always have to watch my back during ramadhan because if someone catches me out in public eating, I'll have to deal with that getting back to my family. It's the worst.

Well if it's easy for you to get out I'm sure you'll be fine getting away with eating. But I know what you mean, even on days when it's permissible for me not to fast I have to make sure no one sees me eating.

There was a video I watched, it was a part of a series of videos that had muslims debating other muslims about particular points. One was on the role of females in society, and how they should behave, and what sort of interactions were appropriate. A lot of scholars are starting to come out in support of giving women more respect, and of understanding that a woman can be in a position like... manager of a lawyer firm, so she'll have to casually converse with many men - and that sort of interaction is okay.

That my family understands. If it's for school or work, they have no probably with me interacting with men. But if it's just casual friendly talk, it's a problem and not appropriate. It's very frustrating and they've lately been on my ass about it.

 

[Kinitari]

Well if it's easy for you to get out I'm sure you'll be fine getting away with eating. But I know what you mean, even on days when it's permissible for me not to fast I have to make sure no one sees me eating.

Oh I don't live at home, I just live -near- home, as in... 30 minutes away or so. That's close enough, it's god damn frightening how much gets back to my mom about my public going ons.

That my family understands. If it's for school or work, they have no probably with me interacting with men. But if it's just casual friendly talk, it's a problem and not appropriate. It's very frustrating and they've lately been on my ass about it.

That's weird... hmm... maybe approach it from this angle. That in whatever field of work you want to go into, you'll have to interact with men all the time. It's important, for your increased chances of success, to be comfortable doing this. A woman who is meek or shy won't go anywhere, but a woman who is comfortable and socialable has a better chance of success. It's not about flirting with guys and getting them to 'desire' you, it's about being social enough that people talk about you and consider you when opportunities come up.

I don't know how well that will fly though .

 

[phosphor112]

Fasting always makes me lose a lot of weight. Most of it because my IBS makes my stomach...unhappy so dinner basically goes to waste... =/

 

[TheContact]

What do most Muslims think of Sharia? I work with a Muslim and he says he hates it, but he follows almost everything else (no drinking alcohol, fasting during ramadan, prayer etc..)

He keeps talking about how it's going on in Mali right now

 

[Wazzim]

What do most Muslims think of Sharia? I work with a Muslim and he says he hates it, but he follows almost everything else (no drinking alcohol, fasting during ramadan, prayer etc..)

He keeps talking about how it's going on in Mali right now

Eh, I don't think anyone really cares about Sharia except for the extremists.

 

[Kisaya]

Oh I don't live at home, I just live -near- home, as in... 30 minutes away or so. That's close enough, it's god damn frightening how much gets back to my mom about my public going ons.

Gossip sucks. It's unfortunate how much my life is affected by what others may think of me.

That's weird... hmm... maybe approach it from this angle. That in whatever field of work you want to go into, you'll have to interact with men all the time. It's important, for your increased chances of success, to be comfortable doing this. A woman who is meek or shy won't go anywhere, but a woman who is comfortable and socialable has a better chance of success. It's not about flirting with guys and getting them to 'desire' you, it's about being social enough that people talk about you and consider you when opportunities come up.

I don't know how well that will fly though .

Probably won't fly well but it's worth a shot. Will bring up next time I have the chance, thank you

 

[Ashes]

Eh, I don't think anyone really cares about Sharia except for the extremists.

Nah, Shariah's important enough for the vast majority of Muslims. the debate is how it is made manifest, and how it is enforced, or how much it is regarded.

 

[Sayah]

The problem is, I hate fasting and I am not Muslim, but I always have to watch my back during ramadhan because if someone catches me out in public eating, I'll have to deal with that getting back to my family. It's the worst.

Well if it's easy for you to get out I'm sure you'll be fine getting away with eating. But I know what you mean, even on days when it's permissible for me not to fast I have to make sure no one sees me eating.

Why are you pretending to fast? That's so dishonest.
And there is no requirement that people that aren't fasting have to eat somewhere away from people that are fasting. I've never heard of that. Usually, if you do that, it's out of respect for others because you munching on food in front of people fasting is going to stir their appetites too.

Islam is one of the least universalist religions on earth. It demands exclusivity. Its the reason why it's the only religion to forge divisions in places like India, which was usually accommodating to all differing manners of religion.

Do you know anything at all about India's history?
Oh man, why am I in the off-topic section again.

 

[Canis lupus]

@Banana- Thanks for clearing it up bro~

Also Ramadhan Mubarak everyone =3

Ramazan already started? Damn. Won't participate this year. Its summer and days are too long.

 

[TheContact]

Ramazan already started? Damn. Won't participate this year. Its summer and days are too long.

I think it depends on where you are. In America I don't think it starts till around the 20th, depending on when an Imam sees the moon and says it's time to fast.

 

[Heshinsi]

What do most Muslims think of Sharia? I work with a Muslim and he says he hates it, but he follows almost everything else (no drinking alcohol, fasting during ramadan, prayer etc..)

He keeps talking about how it's going on in Mali right now

Can't stand that shit. Sharia is generally preached by illiterate hacks who want to stuff their insane, bullshit beliefs, down people's throats. A lot of what they claim as religion is either pulled straight out of their asses, or an ingrained piece of their fucked up culture.

 

[Kinitari]

Why are you pretending to fast? That's so dishonest.

Makes my life easier, the alternative is actually discussing my apostasy with my family. Nope.

And there is no requirement that people that aren't fasting have to eat somewhere away from people that are fasting. I've never heard of that. Usually, if you do that, it's out of respect for others because you munching on food in front of people fasting is going to stir their appetites too.

Not to speak for Kisaya, but I think she's talking about the nature of some people to gossip. If she is seen out eating, even if she should be eating - like during an illness, she can't convey her reasons to everyone who sees her. Then they start gossiping about how Kisaya doesn't respect Ramadhan, or maybe Kisaya is not Muslim anymore, or who knows - and it gets back to her parents and her parents have to deal with correcting it, or just dealing with that drama.