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Official LAIR thread
- Thread starter Captain N
- Start date
I think I almost figured out what causes LAIR to lock up when visiting the leaderboards -
If I delete my saved game, the leaderboards are fine. If I play about 6 missions in, the leaderboards will lock up trying to get stats. Delete the saved game again and I can get back to browsing the leaderboards (though I'm assuming my stats are not uploaded).
Generally speaking, it's best to just avoid the leaderboards altogether until something is sorted out. Either a new firmware update (for the rumored network related bugs) or something is patched for LAIR.
If I delete my saved game, the leaderboards are fine. If I play about 6 missions in, the leaderboards will lock up trying to get stats. Delete the saved game again and I can get back to browsing the leaderboards (though I'm assuming my stats are not uploaded).
Generally speaking, it's best to just avoid the leaderboards altogether until something is sorted out. Either a new firmware update (for the rumored network related bugs) or something is patched for LAIR.
Y2Kev said:
I've finished the game with a fair number of non-bronze medals, and I still do this from time to time immediately after taking off - I can't think of a single good reason that the on-ground controls are strictly analog when the rest of the game is strictly motion-based. If you're going to force a control scheme on the players, at least be universal about it.
Now that I feel like I've spent enough time with it to give the game a fair shake, I have to say that while the controls aren't what put the game squarely in Mediocrityland (that would be plain ol' bad design choices, graphical gripes, too many reheated Rogue Squadron missons, unclear objectives, general camera wonkiness), the game's most glaring flaw is obligating players to use motion controls without even the option for analog, despite the fact analog would offer the same level of precision (if not more).
It's horrible. I'm sorry. I can't defend this with any degree of sincerity.
There are some especially nice technical touches, namely the water and all the little effects going off in the background. The way they used the PS3 is pretty groundbreaking actually, with these huge cities and sweeping vistas.
Too bad you can't see it because the aliasing is horrible! Also, the textures vary from "OMG that's the most detailed thing I've ever seen!" to downright laughable, PS2 quality. The color scheme also obscures any beauty you might have otherwise seen.
The dragon and its rider are awesome to look at, unfortunately actually controlling either of them kills it for you.
Don't get me wrong. The controls are actually responsive. And if all you had to do was fly through rings, this game would be amazing! Best ring-flying simulator ever. But sadly, it is not, and navigating narrow spaces, turning around, etc. becomes a confusing, frustrating chore.
Lair is definitely the type of game I always imagined on my next-gen systems, but its execution is piss poor. It's a waste of some really good tech.
Not to developers: If you're going to make a tech demo, keep it simple, make it fun.
And note, there's a fundamental difference between learning to play something and wanting to learn to play something.
Lair doesn't make you desire the latter.
There are some especially nice technical touches, namely the water and all the little effects going off in the background. The way they used the PS3 is pretty groundbreaking actually, with these huge cities and sweeping vistas.
Too bad you can't see it because the aliasing is horrible! Also, the textures vary from "OMG that's the most detailed thing I've ever seen!" to downright laughable, PS2 quality. The color scheme also obscures any beauty you might have otherwise seen.
The dragon and its rider are awesome to look at, unfortunately actually controlling either of them kills it for you.
Don't get me wrong. The controls are actually responsive. And if all you had to do was fly through rings, this game would be amazing! Best ring-flying simulator ever. But sadly, it is not, and navigating narrow spaces, turning around, etc. becomes a confusing, frustrating chore.
Lair is definitely the type of game I always imagined on my next-gen systems, but its execution is piss poor. It's a waste of some really good tech.
Not to developers: If you're going to make a tech demo, keep it simple, make it fun.
And note, there's a fundamental difference between learning to play something and wanting to learn to play something.
Lair doesn't make you desire the latter.
I got this game and IMO if you're willing to look past its many many flaws its not that bad a game. If you where really looking forward to this game its a rent and if you don't like it then you're out 5 bucks 
As much as I liked this game there is no way I can recommend a purchase on thi... wait umm anyone interested in a slightly used copy of Lair? Its a really really good game
As much as I liked this game there is no way I can recommend a purchase on thi... wait umm anyone interested in a slightly used copy of Lair? Its a really really good game sleeping_dragon
Banned
can we all give Facctor 5 another chance? i think everyone make mistake and they should deserve another chance.
What kind of television are you using?!
I was impressed with how incredibly clean the game appears, actually. The image quality is fantastic and there are virtually no jaggies to be found. All of the textures have been top notch as well (some of them are a tad ugly, though, but that doesn't mean they aren't fairly detailed).
Before I close the chapter on this release I would just like to put out a few suggestions to Factor 5:
- Your engine is awesome. It handles everything from micro to very large scale. You should use this to your advantage in your next PS3 game. My suggestion, a genre coming into popularity now for consoles is the rts genre. Your engine is born for this. After a dozen of years making flight games I really think it would be cool if you tried something new and specifically within that genre.
- Do not re-use the Lair license, this will just hinder your success at this point I believe.
- Try to keep things relatively focused but deep within that one play style. In Lair we had flight/ground/air-fight/bombing/QTE which is obviously an attempt at creating some variety but I found them all pretty much to lack the substance I would like. Make sure you have a core specific gamestyle with a lot of substance. Actually within the rts suggestion I would really like something that went extra deep with stuff like research, evolution..etc. Embrace online, Home, all that jazz.
Use the engine to your advantage, try a different genre like rts, create a new license.
- Your engine is awesome. It handles everything from micro to very large scale. You should use this to your advantage in your next PS3 game. My suggestion, a genre coming into popularity now for consoles is the rts genre. Your engine is born for this. After a dozen of years making flight games I really think it would be cool if you tried something new and specifically within that genre.
- Do not re-use the Lair license, this will just hinder your success at this point I believe.
- Try to keep things relatively focused but deep within that one play style. In Lair we had flight/ground/air-fight/bombing/QTE which is obviously an attempt at creating some variety but I found them all pretty much to lack the substance I would like. Make sure you have a core specific gamestyle with a lot of substance. Actually within the rts suggestion I would really like something that went extra deep with stuff like research, evolution..etc. Embrace online, Home, all that jazz.
Use the engine to your advantage, try a different genre like rts, create a new license.
What about another attempt at the ol' "straction" (strategy action) genre? Battlezone and Uprising were excellent games back in the day and offered a fantastic mix of RTS gameplay with FPS/vehicle based action. I believe their engine and previous experience would be a perfect match.
They could expand upon their vehicle action lineage while trying something new.
They could expand upon their vehicle action lineage while trying something new.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That's been my experience in regards to those things as well (except, replace word "tad" with word "quite"dark10x said:
).I was and am to this day a huge fan of the Rouge Squadron game on the Gamecube, it remained my most played launch title and something I often plug in and play even until now. Rebel Strike was a huge dissapointment, with lack of focus, less involved flight missions, terrible on-foot sections and just generally lacking the polish.
Everything I had see about Lair held a lot of promise but it sounds like more of the same mistakes were made with the game like Rebel Strike. I was curious how the game stacks up visually? As apart from a few elements, due to the colour scheme and general design I haven't exactly been wowed.
Screens of people's set-ups would be appriciated.
Everything I had see about Lair held a lot of promise but it sounds like more of the same mistakes were made with the game like Rebel Strike. I was curious how the game stacks up visually? As apart from a few elements, due to the colour scheme and general design I haven't exactly been wowed.
Screens of people's set-ups would be appriciated.
tahrikmili
Member
sleeping_dragon said:
Fixed
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Maybe they should stick to making engines, I dunno.
At least Lair was something new and novel though, as flawed as it was it made me want to rent it, which I can't say for yearly re-hashes of number of other games that are much better critically received.
At least Lair was something new and novel though, as flawed as it was it made me want to rent it, which I can't say for yearly re-hashes of number of other games that are much better critically received.
Mammothtank
Member
I'm liking it. I'm on level 7 or so and have been enjoying it. The ground aspect is very rough however. Mainly due to the fact that the dragon's animations on the ground are horribly stiff and it's very jarring to go from stiff analog control on the ground to gliding with the sixaxis.
I didn't actually start enjoying the game until after the 4th mission or so where you didn't need to go on the ground. The dragon on dragon fights also took some time to learn as when flying side by side you tend to want to start jerking all over the place, but instead you pace yourself, dodging their tackles while retorting with your own.
On the whole, I find myself really getting into the game (as in I was getting very annoyed if someone inturrupted me.) The motion controls really do give a "visceral" experiance and I could see this game leading to more injuries to those around you than WiiSports. When it came to the section where you had to dodge the worm jaws, I was nearly falling out of my chair...it was fun, what can I say?
I didn't actually start enjoying the game until after the 4th mission or so where you didn't need to go on the ground. The dragon on dragon fights also took some time to learn as when flying side by side you tend to want to start jerking all over the place, but instead you pace yourself, dodging their tackles while retorting with your own.
On the whole, I find myself really getting into the game (as in I was getting very annoyed if someone inturrupted me.) The motion controls really do give a "visceral" experiance and I could see this game leading to more injuries to those around you than WiiSports. When it came to the section where you had to dodge the worm jaws, I was nearly falling out of my chair...it was fun, what can I say?
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Did you guys see the LAIR(PS3 white Room) commercial? i dont have a link, but i saw it on Gamevideos b4 the NG2 Teaser. its fn Awsome
...still not getting it though
...still not getting it though
After playing even more, I'm really shocked at just how simple the handling has become. I've had no issues with both the control and the mission objectives. One of the missions I finished last night was the raid on Mokai (I'm three missions beyond that). It was chaotic, yet easy to handle. While it appeared that there was much going on, it was never difficult to grasp what you were supposed to do. I did not lose a single Manta nor did I miss a 180.
That level in particular highlighted potential complaints, however. For those who were unable to grasp the controls, the chaotic appearance of such a mission would become a real problem and the frustration would grow into hate. It was simple; fly ahead and take out the artillery en route to the city, take out the spot lights and additional artillery within the city, then defend your mantas. It seems more chaotic than it actually is (obviously intended to make the mission feel like an extensive battle).
My only complaint with the mission was the framerate. This was the second mission where I felt that the framerate often dropped much too low. Anyone know if the game runs better in native 720p as opposed to the 1080p mode they've included? I might try that.
The following missions were pretty enjoyable as well. The desert mission was a great change of pace and actually looked really nice. I had no issues finding my way through the desert, fighting the wasp enemy, chasing the fire bombers or taking out the large war beasts. It felt simple and fun.
I'm enjoying this more than the Rogue Squadron games, actually. I fully believe that the reviews were much too harsh. I also believe this game is not for everyone and requires the player to learn and adapt to several new systems without ever receiving proper instruction. This is a serious problem...
That level in particular highlighted potential complaints, however. For those who were unable to grasp the controls, the chaotic appearance of such a mission would become a real problem and the frustration would grow into hate. It was simple; fly ahead and take out the artillery en route to the city, take out the spot lights and additional artillery within the city, then defend your mantas. It seems more chaotic than it actually is (obviously intended to make the mission feel like an extensive battle).
My only complaint with the mission was the framerate. This was the second mission where I felt that the framerate often dropped much too low. Anyone know if the game runs better in native 720p as opposed to the 1080p mode they've included? I might try that.
The following missions were pretty enjoyable as well. The desert mission was a great change of pace and actually looked really nice. I had no issues finding my way through the desert, fighting the wasp enemy, chasing the fire bombers or taking out the large war beasts. It felt simple and fun.
I'm enjoying this more than the Rogue Squadron games, actually. I fully believe that the reviews were much too harsh. I also believe this game is not for everyone and requires the player to learn and adapt to several new systems without ever receiving proper instruction. This is a serious problem...
What I find very perplexing with F5's Lair is that they finally had an opportunity to create a new IP outside of the Starwars universe, create a new game with new experiences, carte blanche.
And they go and create a Rogue Squadron clone. Not just the flying but the mission structures, the menu interface, medal reward system, even the saving and loading style is a carbon copy of RS & RL.
I think people would have been a little easier on Lair if they veered further away from their previous flight games and offered new experiences. One problem I have with Lair from what I've played so far is that I can never just fly around. Everything is a rush to complete one objective after another. The first level with it's beutiful city and scenery is completly lost on me because I'm too busy looking for red dots on my miscolored "vision" mode. Give me more open ended levels, give me a deeper experience then arcade style, give me something more then what Rogue Squadron offered on the N64.
Also the takedown actions need to be a lot more hands on then stupid QTEs. Let me actually bash on a person's skull after I jump on their dragon. I want to perform these actions myself. When I first saw these videos I thought the game was amazing but to my dismay I have had very little control of these events so far.
I have enjoyed it a little so far and have almost gotten accustomed to the motion controls but honestly the gameplay feels very last gen at best.
And they go and create a Rogue Squadron clone. Not just the flying but the mission structures, the menu interface, medal reward system, even the saving and loading style is a carbon copy of RS & RL.
I think people would have been a little easier on Lair if they veered further away from their previous flight games and offered new experiences. One problem I have with Lair from what I've played so far is that I can never just fly around. Everything is a rush to complete one objective after another. The first level with it's beutiful city and scenery is completly lost on me because I'm too busy looking for red dots on my miscolored "vision" mode. Give me more open ended levels, give me a deeper experience then arcade style, give me something more then what Rogue Squadron offered on the N64.
Also the takedown actions need to be a lot more hands on then stupid QTEs. Let me actually bash on a person's skull after I jump on their dragon. I want to perform these actions myself. When I first saw these videos I thought the game was amazing but to my dismay I have had very little control of these events so far.
I have enjoyed it a little so far and have almost gotten accustomed to the motion controls but honestly the gameplay feels very last gen at best.
Allright I think I'm done with the game now. I've been on the same level (the one with the huge sea serpent) for a couple of days now and it's beyond annoying. It breaks some very cardinal rules of gaming:
Unskippable cutscenes. I've played this level quite a few times now and I am forced to watch the same bland cutscenes over and over again.
No Instructions. There's no real good indication of the most effective way to take down this boss. Chasing after the guy is practically fruitless because it's never certain where he is going to pop out of the water, breaking his scales is very difficult to do and provide little damage, and getting to the part where I have to 'go for the eyes!' keeps me in almost an endless loop of me flying close to his mouth only to get blown away over and over again.
Poor control support. There's a scene where the serpent comes behind me and I'm supposed to dodge left or right (and they show me a useless animation for about 2 seconds). No matter what I do, no matter when I do it - this scene is an instant death. That means I get to redo the entire level again which includes the excruciatingly boring escort part.
Unskippable cutscenes. I've played this level quite a few times now and I am forced to watch the same bland cutscenes over and over again.
No Instructions. There's no real good indication of the most effective way to take down this boss. Chasing after the guy is practically fruitless because it's never certain where he is going to pop out of the water, breaking his scales is very difficult to do and provide little damage, and getting to the part where I have to 'go for the eyes!' keeps me in almost an endless loop of me flying close to his mouth only to get blown away over and over again.
Poor control support. There's a scene where the serpent comes behind me and I'm supposed to dodge left or right (and they show me a useless animation for about 2 seconds). No matter what I do, no matter when I do it - this scene is an instant death. That means I get to redo the entire level again which includes the excruciatingly boring escort part.
Mammothtank
Member
Oni Jazar said:
I think the way the Snake fight works is, in the water, you have to knock off at least one or two scales to hurt it enough to where it can't instantly kill a Manta. Then you start the approch where you have to dodge the bile, but you ALSO have to do some damage on the way up, otherwise it'll blow you away.
I bought it today! It's fun! Just done the first level and all the tutorials. Only one problem is that the 180 turn sometimes doesn't respond. Sometimes I would push forward and flick up which results in an accidental dash, no biggie.
There is a network problem with connecting to the Lair Network now... hope they fix it!
There is a network problem with connecting to the Lair Network now... hope they fix it!
The 180 has a trick.IzumiK said:
If you pull up quickly and wait for his animation to begin before bringing the controller back down you should be able to pull it off 100% of the time. Too many people are flicking it upwards and then back down too quickly. The pause is extremely important.
dk_ said:
Taken way out of context. I wasn't even talking about Lair. You can check my history in this thread but I never attempted to trash the reviews nor tried to defend a game I haven't played.
BTW, I rented it today and I'm probably about halfway through it. So far, all I gotta say is that Crispin's EGM REVIEW WAS FUCKING SPOT ON. If you want to hear every problem I have with the game, read that. Seriously, every fucking mission as I advance, I'm having EXACTLY the same criticisms like the manta rays, getting disoriented with the intermittent cutscenes, the targeting system being pretty worthless (just finished the spotlight mission, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE ENEMIES, I CAN'T FUCKING SEE) and the motion controls kind of work but they screwed up with the entire layout. The controls are generally TERRRRRRIBLE. Making the motion to dash and the 180 exclusively with motion control is the god damn most retarded control design decision EVER. geezus
Music is fucking AWESOME though (like seriously some of the best quality music I've heard in a game) and it is a pretty nice looking game. Camera though is pulled back too far to really get a feel of what my position is, which makes the camera worse. This game is a travesty, or as Gamespot said, a "Beautiful Disaster."
I'm just trudging through it because I want to see what happens but god this game is frustrating.
EDIT: I've been trying to use dark10x's 180 trick and seriously, as well as that works, it's still frustratingly inconsistent.
I could not help myself. I bought LAIR :lol I have a thing for trainwrecks!
I have no issues with the controls. The only times I have problems is when I land and I still try to control the dragon with motion control and then when I get back on the air I want to control it by analog.
They do need some tunning but Im fine with them, theyre OK.
+ Amazing sense of scope! Best Ive ever seen.
+ Nice choatic atmosphere
+ I do enjoy motion controls
+ I like the gameplay so far, its nice. Very hectic
+ Great music. One of the best Ive ever heard from a videogame. Very LOTR-ish.
- Its very ugly in the artistic sense.
- PS2 animations FTL
- I wanna skip boring cutscenes
- Why cant I skip the long ass THX video when I pop in the disc?
- The whole thing feels disjointed...hard to explain.
I like it. Its a 7.0-7.5 definetely. Its a good game. Its not a 5.0 IMO.
I have no issues with the controls. The only times I have problems is when I land and I still try to control the dragon with motion control and then when I get back on the air I want to control it by analog.
They do need some tunning but Im fine with them, theyre OK.
+ Amazing sense of scope! Best Ive ever seen.
+ Nice choatic atmosphere
+ I do enjoy motion controls
+ I like the gameplay so far, its nice. Very hectic
+ Great music. One of the best Ive ever heard from a videogame. Very LOTR-ish.
- Its very ugly in the artistic sense.
- PS2 animations FTL
- I wanna skip boring cutscenes
- Why cant I skip the long ass THX video when I pop in the disc?
- The whole thing feels disjointed...hard to explain.
I like it. Its a 7.0-7.5 definetely. Its a good game. Its not a 5.0 IMO.
There are definitely some fun moments in this game but still every time I need to make some exact and tight maneuvers, I just get really frustrated. At least it's not a boring game like DMC2 was. Otherwise I wouldn't still be playing it.
I think the fact that the camera is so far behind your dragon makes it really difficult to judge distances and aiming. If it would at least allow me to toggle rage mode on or off or give me a 1st person view from Rohn's POV, that would probably help a lot.
I think the fact that the camera is so far behind your dragon makes it really difficult to judge distances and aiming. If it would at least allow me to toggle rage mode on or off or give me a 1st person view from Rohn's POV, that would probably help a lot.
I'll put up a plot synopsis after I beat it tomorrow. I think I'm on level 13. It's funny because I can be having a lot of fun and the game will start doing one of two things that just totally send me into a rage.
1)Nagging at me telling me "do that" and then another cutscene saying the same thing in a different way, and then ANOTHER reminder cutscene. $(@*#)!#(&%^! I hate it enough when people tell me to do something more than once in real life. I don't need my games tp do the same damn thing. Just let me play the fucking game how I want to play it.
2)Having to do a 180 when it's really important to get somewhere or I'm getting my ass handed to me by the 80 guys that are following me.
Personal message to Julian:
If you wanted to give people freedom in your game (sandbox) like you said you were, you don't MAKE people do certain tasks in order. You don't set a time limit for absolutely no god damn reason. I was having a lot of fun playing on the prison level and out of fucking nowhere it says: Time is up. WTFing hell is that shit. It doesn't even tell you there is a time limit nor is there a reason for there to be one. You also don't have 18,000 intermittent cutscenes highlighting something that I have no fucking clue where it is. I try to skip all the intermittent stuff as quick as possible because being taken out of the game for more than a second makes me completely forget what the hell I was doing or where I was going. The morale meter has no noticeable effect on anything and none of the soldier ally AIs do a damn thing. You really failed at offering something anywhere close to an open game experience. It's a thinly veiled honey-do list of a game structure with some nagging and some bad voice acting thrown in, to boot.
Damn, this game makes me feel like I'm bipolar or some shit. Good ideas executed terribly. Son of a bitch! Glad I rented it.
1)Nagging at me telling me "do that" and then another cutscene saying the same thing in a different way, and then ANOTHER reminder cutscene. $(@*#)!#(&%^! I hate it enough when people tell me to do something more than once in real life. I don't need my games tp do the same damn thing. Just let me play the fucking game how I want to play it.
2)Having to do a 180 when it's really important to get somewhere or I'm getting my ass handed to me by the 80 guys that are following me.
Personal message to Julian:
If you wanted to give people freedom in your game (sandbox) like you said you were, you don't MAKE people do certain tasks in order. You don't set a time limit for absolutely no god damn reason. I was having a lot of fun playing on the prison level and out of fucking nowhere it says: Time is up. WTFing hell is that shit. It doesn't even tell you there is a time limit nor is there a reason for there to be one. You also don't have 18,000 intermittent cutscenes highlighting something that I have no fucking clue where it is. I try to skip all the intermittent stuff as quick as possible because being taken out of the game for more than a second makes me completely forget what the hell I was doing or where I was going. The morale meter has no noticeable effect on anything and none of the soldier ally AIs do a damn thing. You really failed at offering something anywhere close to an open game experience. It's a thinly veiled honey-do list of a game structure with some nagging and some bad voice acting thrown in, to boot.
Damn, this game makes me feel like I'm bipolar or some shit. Good ideas executed terribly. Son of a bitch! Glad I rented it.
So many contradicting reports and perspectives...
"Lair" is a unique game, a true test of the PS3's next-generation power, and a successful experiment in motion control -- all while being an entertaining game and a seductive story."
RIDING THE DRAGON: 'Lair' puts players into a fantastic medieval war
Most people here seem to be rating the game around 8/10...
Do you guys think they have enough time to fix Lair enough in for its European release? I was looking forward to this game, as it finally looks like something new in terms of gameplay and environment scale.
"Lair" is a unique game, a true test of the PS3's next-generation power, and a successful experiment in motion control -- all while being an entertaining game and a seductive story."
RIDING THE DRAGON: 'Lair' puts players into a fantastic medieval war
Most people here seem to be rating the game around 8/10...
Do you guys think they have enough time to fix Lair enough in for its European release? I was looking forward to this game, as it finally looks like something new in terms of gameplay and environment scale.
Fourth Storm
Member
KTallguy said:
All they really need is one guy at the top with the attitude of, "8 out of 10 times is unacceptable," and they should be completely capable of making at least a good game with amazing graphics. I can't blame Julian entirely though. Sony didn't exactly seem to have the, "it'll be released when it's finished attitude," with this one, because if they did, it stands to reason the game would've been delayed into next year.