PotionBleue
Member
Does that mean the mods here will ban people defending some of the Xbone features just because they're Junior Members? To be honest that sounds a bit scary to me (as a JM myself).
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One Big Problem With MS: Astroturfing Damages Online Communities
- Thread starter QaaQer
- Start date
Post history, suspicious email address that can be traced to a marketing group. I doubt you have to worry about getting banned unless you're an actual marketer.
Templar_Dante
Banned
Thank God.. I waited for a thread like this to be created..
I had my suspicions.. but this seals it for me.
Im not crazy, I didnt wake up in the Twilight Zone but there are viral marketers abound..
Some defend the most absurdist of things, too.
Thankyou OP!
I had my suspicions.. but this seals it for me.
Im not crazy, I didnt wake up in the Twilight Zone but there are viral marketers abound..
Some defend the most absurdist of things, too.
Thankyou OP!
I have suspicions about astroturfers, and I too feel it's hurting the community. Why should I bother replying when someone quotes a post of mine and "refutes" it with nonsense when I'm just writing at someone who is paid to have an opinion?
And yeah, I saw this a lot in Windows 8 threads. I don't even go in them any more because you'll spot the usual suspects who take anything negative, borderline neutral, or outright hostile to Windows 8 and spin it until you're dizzy. Some of them get banned, some don't. And I can't even accuse them of being astroturfers since the waters are so muddy between whether I'm talking to a deluded fanboy or a paid shill. The amount of times I've written up a reply, clicked "Preview Post" and decided, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm not even posting this because I'm probably discussing this with a brick wall."
It definitely hurts discourse.
And yeah, I saw this a lot in Windows 8 threads. I don't even go in them any more because you'll spot the usual suspects who take anything negative, borderline neutral, or outright hostile to Windows 8 and spin it until you're dizzy. Some of them get banned, some don't. And I can't even accuse them of being astroturfers since the waters are so muddy between whether I'm talking to a deluded fanboy or a paid shill. The amount of times I've written up a reply, clicked "Preview Post" and decided, "You know what? Fuck it. I'm not even posting this because I'm probably discussing this with a brick wall."
It definitely hurts discourse.
Lambda Pie
Banned
no. people getting banned are pretty bad at hiding the fact that they're paid shills, relax.
No, there was one Junior who just seemed to keep posting from the official MS pr and nothing else
Captain Tuttle
Member
This must be remembered as well.
Avallon
Member
If you have an industry email address.
No free e-mails means it's easier to find the shills. If there are Sony ones around, the admins probably know.
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I feel like we should name a Bish's Collorary to Poe's Law in honor of our own.
I could see the gaming side having paid people, but stuff about windows 8? Eh. They would be better off doing something like that on cnet or whatever. This is a gaming forum.
also I have been positive about windows 8, where is my damn money?
edit: also there are a few Microsoft employees that roam these parts, hope they don't get banned because of their email. They are upfront on who they work for and sometimes give out useful info.
also I have been positive about windows 8, where is my damn money?
edit: also there are a few Microsoft employees that roam these parts, hope they don't get banned because of their email. They are upfront on who they work for and sometimes give out useful info.
KojiKnight
Member
Truly, this sounds like a sweet gig, if anyone from Nintendo is watching, you can totally buy me! I'm mostly posting stuff positive about you anyways!
That's exactly why you wouldn't pay me isn't it?
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Astroturfing doesn't just cause direct harm, but indirect as well. When one is caught it begins to spread doubt amongst legitimate members. People begin to write off another user's post as being a shill or astroturfer, which can be an obstacle to real discussion.
Would have been a much more effective post had I gone with this:
If it sounds like they're lubed with ASTROGLIDE TM, they're probably an Astroturfer.
ASTROGLIDE TM: SEX WILL NEVER BE THE SAME
Clearly I'm getting docked with next month's check
um what? Sounds like a slippery slope to me.
I've read through most of those posts from those accused of being shills and I've made similar arguments. Why? Because all these negative issues genuinely don't bother me.
They wouldn't bother me if Sony implemented them either.
So according to many, the difference between them and myself is the email address I used to register?
What about the posters who's histories consist of non stop Sony praise while shitting on the other two? I'm a mod on a sporting forum but it sounds like the tools they have here for weeding out alts and the like might be more advanced?
There were a couple of gifs done by Sony employees, like the guy who did the Hangover guy jizzing out Playstation button symbols and of course the DemonNite gifs. But they were pretty upfront about it.
Anyway, it's not really as damaging as guerilla marketing that tries to diffuse the situation for their employers by posting as normal posters.
I would like to see a Viral Marketer come clean about the practices of his employers.
- How they were recruited
- How was payment worked out? Just flat fee? per post? per thread derailed?
- How they truly feel about the product
- How they suppress their morals
etc etc
Do you try to argue against the complaints of others? Trying to force Microsoft's Dry, non lubricated Sandy Cock up our asses?
- How they were recruited
- How was payment worked out? Just flat fee? per post? per thread derailed?
- How they truly feel about the product
- How they suppress their morals
etc etc
Do you try to argue against the complaints of others? Trying to force Microsoft's Dry, non lubricated Sandy Cock up our asses?
Randolph Freelander
Member
Ubisoft virals are everywhere. I've said it before, but I'll say it again. I moderated very briefly a few years ago on IGN. If you were on those boards, you remember those "nine one one" community accounts that popped up to support games like Prince of Persia, Ghost Recon, etc? There were more than a few of them, and they were very prominent.
What were less prominent were the literally dozens upon dozens of other accounts on the same IP. Posting incognito. This was 2004, 2005. They're doubtlessly still at it, and doubtless EA, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Activision, etc., have their plants still at it, as well.
Not saying yall should trust no one, but you should basically trust no one.
What were less prominent were the literally dozens upon dozens of other accounts on the same IP. Posting incognito. This was 2004, 2005. They're doubtlessly still at it, and doubtless EA, Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, Activision, etc., have their plants still at it, as well.
Not saying yall should trust no one, but you should basically trust no one.
WrenchNinja
Member
Speedy isnt one of them, hes just some kid.
KojiKnight
Member
Yeah and it's a pretty big one. If you can't use "free" mails, you're going to have to use paid ones... most corporations have their own (obviously) and that includes PR firms. Now the PR firms can get smarter, but they aren't going to buy 100's of totally unique and legit ones, create full company websites, etc etc for them so even then they'll be pretty obvious.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Whilst I agree viral marketing seems pretty rampant on places like neogaf and 4chan, I don't really see any evidence that the banned posters linked in this thread were viraling, beyond being pro-microsoft/anti-sony. I'm going to assume they had suspicious IP addresses or something.
why not let a moderator discuss this. as you know is probably the best method of getting information, being a moderator yourself.
nothing you said is true.
So couldn't they get their people to use personal paid ones?
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Sorry, I have a hard time differentiating people who are paid and people who just wanna fall on their sword for free. There's just no difference to me sometimes. I guess unless their registration email address gives them away?
Bornstellar
Member
I'm pretty damn sure Speedy Blue Dude, for example, is not a marketing shill. Just saying.
The one guy Durante compiled all the quotes on only got banned till after E3. So they clearly didn't have conclusive evidence he was getting paid for his work (though it seems impossible anyone would be doing it for free).
Astroturfing means that you've been paid to be viral. Everybody saying "I'm a shill for this product because I like it!" are misunderstanding everything. Stop this silly joke.
Karak
Member
Ya for some reason I would assume that the publishers would be the worst offenders simply due to their stance.
Wait. Durante got banned?
Tummi Gummi
Member
It's pretty cheap to get email accounts that aren't tied to their PR domain. All it takes is a cheap webhosting domain and bang, you have legit emails from imnotashill.com instead of iamashill.com.
On the other hand, we always see a lot of shilling accusations hurled at simple fanboys.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
you have links?
Hari Seldon
Member
Windows 8 was a clusterfuck of a failure, so the money spent towards that was wasted lol. The danger of astroturfing is in those "review" threads and the day 0-10 opinions of games that people are on the fence about. Always wait for sales for new releases, so you can get the real gaf opinion and not the scumbag shill opinion.
He compiled a list of like twenty outrageous shill posts somebody made in a thread. And when they were all gathered in one place, it was hilarious to read. Bish banned the poster till after e3. Durante simply gathered all the quotes into a central location.
In Nintendo's case, they would rather pay to the crazy fans for not posting crazy shit.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
I'm on to you and ur gafstroturfing.
It's also easy to register it under a personal name.
bigmit3737
Member
Astroturfing is the offical term for viral marketers?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013...created-astroturf-smear-campaign-against-htc/
Having being on the recieving end a few times in real life Samsung's marketing is weird.
hardcastlemccormick
Banned
Which can be traced to an employer.
Yes, there's ways to be sneaky, but it's not as cut and dried as registering a different domain name. There's ways to figure out who you're dealing with, and you can knock out the stupid ones.
Art Teitlebaum
Member
Astroturfing poisons the trust into all the community members in a discourse situation. I hope these PR devils rot in hell. But let's face it: Surely all the corporate players have their dark horses in this race. It's just more obvious right now for the ridiculous attempts of the shills to spin the awful XBone news in the last few days.
KojiKnight
Member
Hmm, s'like you only partially read what I said
If they create their own domain, it won't take long to figure out something is a miss "Imnotashill.com is registered to X company... and so is imalsonotashill.com and anyone who has them is posting pro-microsoft!"
That said e-mails aren't the only thing that ties them. In general, they're looking at behavior like derailing threads, if a person is a pro X posting in every thread, but then goes into pro Y thread to talk bad about Y, etc.
The surest way to not get banned, don't be an over the top overt fanboy. It's really that simple. If what you post in any way comes to "X is better than Y in every way" it's just best not to post it.
Without proof I'm loathe to accuse anybody about being a viral marketer. Instead I just use my best judgement and realize that posters who seem to be too quick to defend a position/platform/company regardless of the tone or substance of a thread probably have an agenda. Sometimes that agenda includes getting paid.
The moderators of course need to be vigilant about this stuff but as a poster the best I can do is use good judgement. Some of the most vocal defendants of a defective position are probably not actually marketers but poor deluded souls who, for whatever reason, have convinced themselves that personal dignity is not as important as cheer-leading for your pet cause.
The moderators of course need to be vigilant about this stuff but as a poster the best I can do is use good judgement. Some of the most vocal defendants of a defective position are probably not actually marketers but poor deluded souls who, for whatever reason, have convinced themselves that personal dignity is not as important as cheer-leading for your pet cause.
In Nintendo's case, they would rather pay to the crazy fans for not posting crazy shit.
They PM'd me an offer to take out AceBandage. But they couldn't guarantee me safe passage to a country without extradition treaties. Had to pass.