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Orange is the New Black S4 |OT| Welcome to the block - June 17th

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JTripper

Member
Easily the best season since 1, maybe even better. I was more invested in the show this season than any other. Some thoughts:

- Once Piper's story started picking up this season, I actually started feeling for the character more than I had in 3 seasons, but it leads nowhere and it stops right when it was getting interesting.

- Lolly was my favorite character this season. Her character might annoy many, but it's so distinct and her flashback episode was the most effective one for me. I truly feel bad for her but I also know that there was no way her story could have ended well. I think I missed something in the later episodes because I forgot where Healy ended up after outing her, so when the junkies were about to trash the "time machine" I thought they were gonna find Healy's body, discovering that he committed suicide.

- The race "wars" that scattered throughout many episodes wasn't that great, and there were moments where it felt like the show could have done without as much as it had, such as at the end when the white supremacists make an awful comment as Poussay's body is being put in the ambulance.

- Burset's return almost felt non-existent. It seemed like the show was already balancing all the other stories so that hers couldn't be focused on, so they just sort of reeled us in for an interesting setup but then she just returns like not much happened.

- By the middle of the season I realized that almost everyone's story was so dark and depressing, then I remembered the weird Judy and Cindy fake romance plot and I was thankful that the show kept at least one sub-plot funny and lighthearted so that the entire season wasn't completely dark.

- I feel kinda bad for Caputo. He makes some shitty decisions, but you can see he's trying to make the inmates' lives better. The system just never allows it and he just keeps getting beat up because of it. I hope he doesn't end up completely defeated and disappears from the show because I want to see him have his moment of redemption. He's very clearly in the middle of all this and doesn't take either side, which might be his ultimate downfall. Once he tries to stick up for one side, whether it's the inmates or the system, he has to cater to the other.

- That finale was ridiculous, in a chaotic great way. That brief moment where Aleida is watching the conference on TV made the entire finale scene that much more significant in having Daya be the one who picks up the gun.

- I think the P flashback was there to directly parallel the chaos that her death caused in the prison. During most of that flashback, she's sort of lost and on her own, but finds her way through it and meets some good people along the way. She clearly had something going for her and makes a good impression on everyone she meets in that flashback. She's looking out directly at NYC wondering where she's gonna go next, with this great future expected to be ahead of her, meanwhile in the present her body is literally just rotting in a prison cafeteria. It's so fucking dark and tragic, however that last moment where she smiles paralleled with the prison riot cliffhanger seems like almost some strange blessing that she doesn't have to deal with any of that and is at peace, meanwhile all the inmates are the ones who are going to have to face the consequences and further their struggle.
 

Fantastical

Death Prophet
Only on season 3 and I'm obsessed with Pennsatucky. She is by far my favorite character on the show. I loved her in season one when she was evil and I love her now.
 

GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Only on season 3 and I'm obsessed with Pennsatucky. She is by far my favorite character on the show. I loved her in season one when she was evil and I love her now.

Her transformation of being someone I loved to hate to someone I loved is impressive. Her story arc in S4 was great.
 
Finally got round to watching the first episode and I just have to say how much I detest Lolly. Such a terrible character. Not funny or believable in any way shape of form, just plain annoying. Possibly my least favourite character of any show I've ever watched.
 

Dominator

Member
Finally got round to watching the first episode and I just have to say how much I detest Lolly. Such a terrible character. Not funny or believable in any way shape of form, just plain annoying. Possibly my least favourite character of any show I've ever watched.
Should watch the rest of the season before speaking on that.
 

aku:jiki

Member
Finally finished and, like everyone else, enjoyed this season a lot more than the last. Favorites for me was the final episode, which I thought was overall one of the best the show's ever done and Poussay's night in NYC was wonderful, the molly scene, Luschek growing a conscience and getting Nicols out of max (Luscheck was in general felt more likeable this season), and probably more I'm forgetting.

Didn't like how they shot Poussay's death at all and I think they finally went way too far with having every CO be literally Satan. Having fat dude crack some kind of halfassed joke about raping and murdering girls in Afghanistan is just one step too far for my suspension of disbelief. To add to that, they had to destroy their only not-Satan CO to make an obvious point everyone already understood before this show even started (prison changes people, no shit), which I thought was really unnecessary. Now everyone but Caputo has horns and hooves, it's too much for me.
 

Future

Member
Finally finished and, like everyone else, enjoyed this season a lot more than the last. Favorites for me was the final episode, which I thought was overall one of the best the show's ever done and Poussay's night in NYC was wonderful, the molly scene, Luschek growing a conscience and getting Nicols out of max (Luscheck was in general felt more likeable this season), and probably more I'm forgetting.

Didn't like how they shot Poussay's death at all and I think they finally went way too far with having every CO be literally Satan. Having fat dude crack some kind of halfassed joke about raping and murdering girls in Afghanistan is just one step too far for my suspension of disbelief. To add to that, they had to destroy their only not-Satan CO to make an obvious point everyone already understood before this show even started (prison changes people, no shit), which I thought was really unnecessary. Now everyone but Caputo has horns and hooves, it's too much for me.

I think the point of those bad cops was that the private prison system isnt interested in hiring the best guards. They want the cheapest people that can find, even when expanding to take more inmates than they can handle. And this is the fallout, even when a good person is in charge
 

jedezel

Neo Member
Finished the season yesterday.
I found this season really strange to be honest:
- Piper's branding had close to no impact on the story (quite the opposite even, as there is no escalation after that, the conflict between Piper and Maria stopped at this time like nothing happened)
- Daya's "fall to come" has been badly introduced, or not enough. I really think that we miss an event before the gun scene (Daya trying to sell drug or something...besides just sitting here doing nothing), because we see her pushing Mendoza away but not really getting close to Maria
- all Judy King's actions have no impact as well : new character introduced, character leaving, nothing really noticeable happened inbetween
- the comeback of Burset looked like a non-event, I was expecting something more
- the episode 12 really end on a critical note, with a lot of tension and after that, all episode 13 is really slow (the lenght of this episode does not help I guess), the tension really drops and it is just at the end that it came back. It would has been more appropriate, i think, to build up the tension during this episode to arrive to the final riot

But I really enjoyed this season anyway, way better than 3.
On a general note, I regret:
- that Red seems really weak. She was a really strong character, inspiring fear in the beginning and in the last two seasons, she really act like an old lady, really disappointing
- I kinda hoped at the beginning of the show that Piper would evolve a little bit like Walter White in BB, but after showing some strength in season 1, she really is hollow since
- I really hoped that something bad happened to Linda during the riot. I am now waiting for s5 for that
 

Sunster

Member
Why is Daya always the most annoying character? Shes incapable of making good choices.

I feel like that scene at the end was waaaay out of character for her. I know she was rebelling a little against her mom but come on...she knows she has a kid. also I think
Poussey's
death was wildly unnecessary
 

Taruranto

Member
Episode 9
man, these new guards are awful. I don't mean in the "their are awful human being" way (Although they are lol), but they are really awful characters. For a show that it's all about showing that people are not black-and-white and capable of redemption, they are just comically bad. Like this dude apparently killed ten flies and found a baby rat just to torture Maritza. Wat. Maybe next episode some of them will go into an evil villain laugh?

I'm enjoying this season better than 3, but jeez.
 

Taruranto

Member
Episode 11
Suzanne's flashback seemed kinda forced to me. We know her family is alive, and they are very kind people (Maybe even too much), so I'm not sure why she wasn't living with them but instead she was living with her sister. Or why her sister didn't ask her to go back to their parents that weekend.

The new guards
keep being the worst, but at least now they are on bully-level instead of joker-from-batman level. It's somewhat a more believable scenario.
 

Taruranto

Member
Episode 12

Can't believe Bayley got a flashback before Yoga Jones.Poor Yoga Jones. Her character has been completely derailed.

P's death was...uhm... did the actress want to leave or what?

I think the writers don't know what to do with Daya.
 

gaiages

Banned
Episode 12

Can't believe Bayley got a flashback before Yoga Jones.Poor Yoga Jones. Her character has been completely derailed.

P's death was...uhm... did the actress want to leave or what?

I think the writers don't know what to do with Daya.

For the spoiler, I think they wanted to take the most mild character and do that for maximum shock impact. We all know she was pretty much a good person that seemed to be in prison for sketchy/unfair reasons, which are really expanded upon in the next episodes. (Or is it just one more episode?)
 

Taruranto

Member
13: So this episode confirmed
Daya was actually killed at the beginning of the season and replace with a clone?

Morello/Nicky scene was so good in term of execution, although Nicky gets really, really rapey with her. I love Nicky character and her no-bullshit attitude (her reaction to Alex/Piper in the previous episode was gold), but I kinda wish the show (or someone) called her on that. It's not the first time it happens either.

... Nicky is kinda of a bitch, if you think about it.

For the spoiler, I think they wanted to take the most mild character and do that for maximum shock impact. We all know she was pretty much a good person that seemed to be in prison for sketchy/unfair reasons, which are really expanded upon in the next episodes. (Or is it just one more episode?)

It's just
that the way she died seemed kinda... forced? Like, I didn't realize you could suffocate someone that way. More so, no one tried to CPR her or anything, No one tried to check the pulse or reanimate her. Shake the body. Taystee fell to her side and started crying.
 

alienxx45

Member
Why is Daya always the most annoying character? Shes incapable of making good choices.

It seemed a bit out of character but then maybe she is channeling her hate for Bennett. She did blurt out the line
"All you COs are the same.
." at the end.

Episode 9
man, these new guards are awful. I don't mean in the "their are awful human being" way (Although they are lol), but they are really awful characters. For a show that it's all about showing that people are not black-and-white and capable of redemption, they are just comically bad. Like this dude apparently killed ten flies and found a baby rat just to torture Maritza. Wat. Maybe next episode some of them will go into an evil villain laugh?

I'm enjoying this season better than 3, but jeez.

All the new guards are supposed to be former Vets that had preexisting issues hired on incentive by MCC. I recall the discussion during a scene in S3 when the board members specifically joked about how unstable they all are and have a tendency to go off the rails.

Episode 12

Can't believe Bayley got a flashback before Yoga Jones.Poor Yoga Jones. Her character has been completely derailed.

P's death was...uhm... did the actress want to leave or what?

I think the writers don't know what to do with Daya.

They covered Yoga Jones back story in a quick scene late S3 i believe? The gardening story told by her. which was great and I found that more direct than seeing it through a flashback.
And watching her slowly unravel and reveal her materialistic side while living with Judy was entertaining. And then having her character called out by Judy at the end.

13:
It's just
that the way she died seemed kinda... forced? Like, I didn't realize you could suffocate someone that way. More so, no one tried to CPR her or anything, No one tried to check the pulse or reanimate her. Shake the body. Taystee fell to her side and started crying.

They really undercut
Soso's reaction to P's death
which was surprising. She was basically nonexistent.
 

Taruranto

Member
My problem with Daya is that she's basically been non-existent all season. Even if she was channeling her hate for Bennet, I can't connect with her because she hasn't been a character in 13 episodes, she hasn't show much resentment toward Bennet leaving recently (She even seems disinterested toward her baby), and it's acting completely different from the usual Daya. Not to mention, I don't even recall her interacting with any of the new guards? Seriously, if the show had told me that's Daya evil twin sister, I would have believed it.

I know the new guards are ex-vets, but they so comically one dimensional. They are an effective narrative tool because they brought back the oppressive prison enviroment that S1-2 had (and S3 didn't), but it comes as lazy writing. Not to mention, you could argue it is kinda hypocritical: It's OK to show one group of people as irremediably evil while you paint every other character in shades of gray?
 

alienxx45

Member
I know the new guards are ex-vets, but they so comically one dimensional. They are an effective narrative tool because they brought back the oppressive prison enviroment that S1-2 had (and S3 didn't), but it comes as lazy writing. Not to mention, you could argue it is kinda hypocritical: It's OK to show one group of people as irremediably evil while you paint every other character in shades of gray?

It goes to show that it takes only a few to disrupt the whole. It only took 1 or 2 people (pistatalla/humps) to make everything turn to shit while everyone else just followed suit either going along or turning a blind eye.

On another note even though the ending to healy's storyline was
sad i'm glad it progressed to that conclusion. basically 3 seasons of screw ups leading to the inevitable break down. The moment when he heard about the dead body in the garden and realized Lolly was telling the truth the whole time and finally realizing he has failed again in helping someone.
 

gaiages

Banned
I do agree the scene was forced, and could have been handled a lot better.
I knew suffocation was possible via that method, but it's also not something that is as quick as, say, crushing a windpipe. The more logical thing to happen in that scenario is for her spine or ribcage to be crushed, but that wasn't mentioned.

Honestly I think it would have been better if her spine got broken and she was alive but paralysed for life. I feel it would have still caused the riot.

Season 4 imo is better than 3 but I think there are a lot of flaws in it. There are way too many characters now, and the plot seems too devied up as a result. A few plot lines are closed up with no real resolution and a few characters with no development (Daya). Also Soso being ignored mostly in the final episode was a huge misstep.

I hope Season 5 will do a little better on character focus and development.
 

Fantastical

Death Prophet
Just finished this season. I do not understand
why Daya did that? Seems incredibly out of character. It really felt like the writers were trying to force this idea that Daya will act out without her mother. When it was brought up by her mom I thought it was weird but then that is... strange.

Really good season though.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Doing a rewatch and Suzanne's characterization really shifts -- S01E03, Suzanne is clearly a stalker and strange but not simple in the way that she is by the end of season 4. She sings "chocolate and vanilla swirl" to Piper, which is a contrast to S4 where she's sexually naive and has no idea what's going on. In her next scene, she sticks up for Piper when she perceives that Alex is intruding on her turf and again she seems very adult and savvy and aware of things.
 

aBarreras

Member
Doing a rewatch and Suzanne's characterization really shifts -- S01E03, Suzanne is clearly a stalker and strange but not simple in the way that she is by the end of season 4. She sings "chocolate and vanilla swirl" to Piper, which is a contrast to S4 where she's sexually naive and has no idea what's going on. In her next scene, she sticks up for Piper when she perceives that Alex is intruding on her turf and again she seems very adult and savvy and aware of things.

suzanne sucks.


just watched the season finale yesterday, man, it was a great season until the 2 last episodes, what spectacular way to fuck things up.

i really dont have any desire to watch seasn 5. but i probably will anyways
 

dankir

Member
Goddamn Daya!


Ot4quZS.jpg
 

Dysun

Member
Big step up from what I felt was an awful third season. Gave me renewed interest in the show going forward

Pennsatucky was the highlight
 
Doing a rewatch and Suzanne's characterization really shifts -- S01E03, Suzanne is clearly a stalker and strange but not simple in the way that she is by the end of season 4. She sings "chocolate and vanilla swirl" to Piper, which is a contrast to S4 where she's sexually naive and has no idea what's going on. In her next scene, she sticks up for Piper when she perceives that Alex is intruding on her turf and again she seems very adult and savvy and aware of things.

Yeah I was rewatching S1 and noticed this too. They really ruined her character and basically turned her into a child.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
this season was probably my favourite since season one, by far. Lots of interesting decisions that have probably been talked about to death, but I want to give a shout out to the Lolli flashback story and everything that follows. Impressive stuff.

Doing a rewatch and Suzanne's characterization really shifts -- S01E03, Suzanne is clearly a stalker and strange but not simple in the way that she is by the end of season 4. She sings "chocolate and vanilla swirl" to Piper, which is a contrast to S4 where she's sexually naive and has no idea what's going on. In her next scene, she sticks up for Piper when she perceives that Alex is intruding on her turf and again she seems very adult and savvy and aware of things.

Mmm. Her transformation post-season one hasn't ever really been super convincing to me. I like the character, but I don't think they stuck the landing when they tried to work out who she actually is.

The only thing that pissed me off was how stupidly orchestrated
Poussey's death
was, without
a single person even TRYING to do CPR or anything. Taystee just started spooning her ... like ... shake her, try to wake her up. Just because she's unconcious doesn't mean she's dead.

It's a bummer, because that episode was convincing enough up until that moment. Taystee running up like that felt really -- I dunno -- dissonant and TVy to me.
 
Just finished watching Season 4. Some great comments/observations in last few pages of thread.

Thought season was ultimately good although I pretty much agree with all of the gripes. Looking forward to Season 5 but things we're interesting but unruly in 4.

I thought the new guards/vets thing was fine for the story but the Soso/P romance never worked for me, P's death was odd (although I really enjoyed the flashback, Soso didn't get any real grieving time on screen). As others have said, Burset got overlooked on her return and some other story lines tidied up too quickly. Still, it kept me engaged which is the bottom line.

Doing a rewatch and Suzanne's characterization really shifts -- S01E03, Suzanne is clearly a stalker and strange but not simple in the way that she is by the end of season 4. She sings "chocolate and vanilla swirl" to Piper, which is a contrast to S4 where she's sexually naive and has no idea what's going on. In her next scene, she sticks up for Piper when she perceives that Alex is intruding on her turf and again she seems very adult and savvy and aware of things.
Good call Stump. I'm glad you shared some specifics because I remember Crazy Eyes being much more "adult" in all of her actions, as you say aware. I think the show creators are using a slight of hand for narrative purposes but it is discouraging.

this season was probably my favourite since season one, by far. Lots of interesting decisions that have probably been talked about to death, but I want to give a shout out to the Lolli flashback story and everything that follows. Impressive stuff.

Mmm. Her transformation post-season one hasn't ever really been super convincing to me. I like the character, but I don't think they stuck the landing when they tried to work out who she actually is.

It's a bummer, because that episode was convincing enough up until that moment. Taystee running up like that felt really -- I dunno -- dissonant and TVy to me.
Lolly flashback was great, also liked all of her scenes with Healey.

Yeah, besides the much-discussed turn by Daya, I thought Taystee's reaction to the press conference just didn't ring true for me. I just didn't sense that she would go in revolt mode; maybe confront Beer Can after the presser or become despondent, I dunno ... Felt like a very produced "big" reaction.

But again, I plan to binge Season 5. I suppose it is funner to pick at the minor issues than to laud the achievements, which are plenty.

Speaking of, old biker broad with the scratchy voice (killed spouses, hangs with Red) is probably my fav character. She doesn't have a bad line and I always love her scenes. (Just need to remember her name ...).
 
Season 4 was definitely a return to form. Season 3 really felt like a breather season to kind of wrap up the loose plot threads of seasons 1-2, and then season 4 felt a bit like a reboot of sorts. New guards, new inmates, new dilemmas.

It still takes a hit in season ranking due to needing to spend 4ish episodes resolving the awful awful Chapman plot from season 3, but they also get points back by really making her suffer for it and it was a good moment.

I was iffy after season 3 as to whether I would keep watching, Season 4 was make or break and I'm now excited for season 5.
 

LogicStep

Member
So I'm on season 2. I'm trying to figure out where are the latina girls supposed to be from? I can't place their accent. Sometimes I think they sound Dominican or Puerto Rican then I don't know what they sound like..

Edit
Well I just saw Gloria's boyfriend say he's Dominican so I'm guessing that's what they are?
 

scabro

Member
So I'm on season 2. I'm trying to figure out where are the latina girls supposed to be from? I can't place their accent. Sometimes I think they sound Dominican or Puerto Rican then I don't know what they sound like..

Edit
Well I just saw Gloria's boyfriend say he's Dominican so I'm guessing that's what they are?

flaca and martiza are mexican

gloria and her crew are dominican, daya and her mom are puerto rican i think.
 
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