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[GodofWine]

its funny to think about how....using AIM bots in E-sports is almost like using steroids in Sports....

No, its worse. Barry Bonds still had to HIT the ball, it just let him hit it harder, it was like a damage boost, but not an insta-lock on to the ball to the sweet spot on the bat with perfect trajectory to smash that tater.

Aim bot = standing at home plate with a pitching machine picking where and how hard to shoot the ball.

 

[Jebusman]

If its happened that many times to you, to the point where you'd rather play the game on console, you must really chill in some shitty pubs.

I mean me personally, I'd conceded the fact that cheaters exist, and I deal with it because the PC is my platform of choice.

But I fully understand why for some people, it's a raw fucking deal. Who cares if you have amazing graphics running at 144fps if you end up stuck in a game with a cheater, and thanks to games adopting more and more features to discourage people ragequitting, will temporarily punish YOU for trying to escape it for quitting out early.

CSGO ranked is a fucking nightmare on wheels if you get stuck against a cheater. The fact that they'll get banned "eventually" is little solice when in the right now you have to deal with it.

 

[vocab]

I'm not the person in question. But I used to play CS a lot way back when, and I cannot remember a single instance where I fought someone who was an obvious cheater.

Thats like winning the lottery. Ill never forget the dark ages of 1.3. There were cheating teams cheating against each other in pubs. Its was both amazing and disastrous.

 

[Finaika]

Great game that Russian Roulette, win money, women love you, excitement, drinking.

Just sometimes you will be shot dead, but all other times its great.

You won't die by playing Overwatch on PC though.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

"Various snapping to enemies not in the vicinity".

Going to be the third time explaining it on the D.Va. clip, but the D.Va was literally in Taimou's peripheral vision for the entirety of the kill on Lucio. Swapping to the right after the Lucio kill was the most logical place to move.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who's casted OW basically since the beginning, as well as someone who plays with and against top players in pubs all the time. Which means that it takes a pretty high threshold to be hit to enter the status of "Player X is cheating".

Hacking and cheating will happen eventually and could be happening now in some circles. What I'm arguing is that the clips on Taimou and Surefour are anything but conclusive, and certainly not at the level to where people should be condemning them and calling for their ouster from the game.

did they pay u in gold bars to be their pr person lol

the guy spins, perfectly tracks someone that wasnt in view and keeps his crosshairs level perfectly with his head

 

[Boogdud]

"Various snapping to enemies not in the vicinity".

Going to be the third time explaining it on the D.Va. clip, but the D.Va was literally in Taimou's peripheral vision for the entirety of the kill on Lucio. Swapping to the right after the Lucio kill was the most logical place to move.

It's because your explanation is complete horseshit. It doesn't explain in any way the situation as evidenced. He literally snaps from an active target, to a newly spawned player behind a pillar that is clearly not in his field of vision in less than .5 seconds. Not to mention he completely locks on the obstructed target in that time. This is folly.

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who's casted OW basically since the beginning, as well as someone who plays with and against top players in pubs all the time. Which means that it takes a pretty high threshold to be hit to enter the status of "Player X is cheating".

No further "explanation" needed from you. Now that your vested interest is exposed.

 

[Diablohead]

This pro is streaming, can someone explain what's going on with him always rapidly right clicking to scope with widowmaker? sometimes he's doing it 20 times a second with no one around.

https://www.twitch.tv/tehreaver

I should say i'm not calling anyone out, just interested in what's going on there, he is playing well.

 

[Boogdud]

This pro is streaming, can someone explain what's going on with him always rapidly right clicking to scope with widowmaker? sometimes he's doing it 20 times a second with no one around.

https://www.twitch.tv/tehreaver

He's just "half cocking" the zoom so if someone is in the field of vision he can get the full shot off quicker. Nothing nefarious.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

I'm not the person in question. But I used to play CS a lot way back when, and I cannot remember a single instance where I fought someone who was an obvious cheater.

is this sarcasm or a joke post?

has to be. I didn't play alot of CS and even I ran into cheaters

No, its worse. Barry Bonds still had to HIT the ball, it just let him hit it harder, it was like a damage boost, but not an insta-lock on to the ball to the sweet spot on the bat with perfect trajectory to smash that tater.

Aim bot = standing at home plate with a pitching machine picking where and how hard to shoot the ball.

good point

 

[charsace]

lol at people saying the stuff posted here aren't aimbots. I've made a few personal aim bots for games back in the day just to see if I could and what the result would be and the bots jumped around just like this in the first person perspective because that is the benefit of an aim bot; quick aim, quick kill.

 

[Apathy]

You must of never played cs.

I was thinking the same thing, playing between 1.3 and source I can vividly remember idiots using wall hacks, speed hacks, aim bots every other day on different servers and doing it just for "lulz" shooting people from their spawn.

 

[Jebusman]

I'm coming from the perspective of someone who's casted OW basically since the beginning, as well as someone who plays with and against top players in pubs all the time. Which means that it takes a pretty high threshold to be hit to enter the status of "Player X is cheating".

No, it means you are in a position to want to downplay any hacking as much as humanly possible. You seem to have made it your life, and likely your career, to be a caster of Overwatch. If this all comes crumbling down, so does your livelyhood, so does your career, so does your life.

If there is literally anyone who is in the least qualified/unbiased opinion to be judging whether or not someone is hacking, it's you. Because if they're hacking, that's a bad look on a scene for a game that is just trying to get itself going. That's a bad look on all the pro players and casters who want to get in and make a name for themselves. It's a real bad look for the team that employs him. And I can't imagine Blizzard will be too happy to have a pro gamer hacking story during their launch period. All of that is bad for someone who hopes to make a living off streaming/casting a video game.

I'm not saying you need to crucify the two of them to appease the public. But maybe you might want to take a look at yourself and wonder how objective you really are when it comes to allegations like this. If this is how I would expect every hacking allegation to be handled in the Overwatch community, I don't think there's going to be that big of a community for long.

You, as in you the caster of the game, you as a streamer of the game, you as a person who plays with these pro players of the game, should not be on here and trying to make statements on their behalf. No matter how much you seem to not want a "witch hunt", going about this by trying to explain how each and every piece of evidence is reasonable in some way is not doing you any favors. It's not convincing people. It's making them mad that someone who actually is in a position to be able to voice concerns to someone, and who does get to see more of it from the inside, is hand waving it away as player skill, "toxic community", git gud kind of mentality.

 

[robertlebrone]

Ugh... I was really wanting to get this game on PC, but I think I'm going to have to go PS4.

 

[ChoklitCow]

ZP's never exhibited unethical behaviors in the HotS scene when he was one of the main faces of it, and I remember him hitting controversy head-on at times. I cannot fathom his personality/stance changing now. Trying to discredit him based on his character and involvement on the community doesn't seem to have weight in my opinion. Especially since all he has been saying is that none of this is 100% proven and there are multiple issues at play. I don't think he has once stated "these people never cheated" merely "let's put the pitchforks away a bit until we have more info". I can't see the rationale of him protecting friends or his own streaming interests. This game is going to be big. The teams that currently exist won't exist in a few months (no insults to them, e-sports teams just have the longevity of a roll of toilet paper). What does he have to gain by protecting them other than being a good colleague and supporter of a growing community?

Personally, I'm happy someone is going to bat for these guys, even if they are proven to be cheaters later on. I hate online vigilantism and public shaming. I do appreciate how on here though people are responding with much more detailed information and thought, however.

Some of these clips? Meh. Some of them seem pretty damning. Biggest question for me isn't did they or didn't they, it is how Blizz will respond. Their response or lack there of will have implications I'm sure. How severe is to be seen.

 

[Interfectum]

I'm not the person in question. But I used to play CS a lot way back when, and I cannot remember a single instance where I fought someone who was an obvious cheater.

Most of the time you wont. Like I said earlier, in general it's hard to tell if someone is just good, cheating or even both. Most people who cheat don't want to be seen as cheating so they aren't just gonna shoot through walls all day to get to the top of the leaderboard. They'll use cheats strategically.

There will be cheaters in Overwatch, especially on PC. You may not know they are cheating though. If you think that's going to drive you crazy, you might be better off on console, though they may be cheating on there as well (just not as likely).

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

I don't know how someone could watch any of those and have doubts still, especially the surefour videos/gifs.

 

[Onemic]

I mean me personally, I'd conceded the fact that cheaters exist, and I deal with it because the PC is my platform of choice.

But I fully understand why for some people, it's a raw fucking deal. Who cares if you have amazing graphics running at 144fps if you end up stuck in a game with a cheater, and thanks to games adopting more and more features to discourage people ragequitting, will temporarily punish YOU for trying to escape it for quitting out early.

CSGO ranked is a fucking nightmare on wheels if you get stuck against a cheater. The fact that they'll get banned "eventually" is little solice when in the right now you have to deal with it.

Oh, I know they definitely exist, I'm not denying that. It's the notion that they're in a majority of games or that they're in a significant enough quantity that your day to day playing will have you encounter them at least a few times a week that I take issue with because it's simply not true. They're a minority that can easily be avoided should you encounter one, it's not like they follow you from game to game or something. The only time I can see this happening is if you keep going into the same servers that tend to have cheaters. Even in CS: source, I encountered cheaters very rarely(I can literally count on one hand the number Ive faced in almost 10 years of playing the game) because I went into well moderated servers and favourited them so I knew which ones were generally good.

It's also not like cheaters havent existed in consoles where it's even harder to track them down and ban, yet people never talk about cheaters being an issue there. Another reason why I think that part of the issue is hyperbole against increased competition in PC shooters vs consoles. Half the time I hear people talk about cheaters, the player in question is just really good.

 

[pastrami]

Most of the time you wont. Like I said earlier, in general it's hard to tell if someone is just good, cheating or even both. Most people who cheat don't want to be seen as cheating so they aren't just gonna shoot through walls all day to get to the top of the leaderboard. They'll use cheats strategically.

There will be cheaters in Overwatch, especially on PC. You may not know they are cheating though. If you think that's going to drive you crazy, you might be better off on console, though they may be cheating on there as well (just not as likely).

Agree, combined with what Zeliard said earlier.

I don't think people realize how good people can be at cheating. Combining wall hacks and aimbots doesn't necessarily mean the player is going to be a walking death machine. Toggling and being careful with prefiring and tracing is not hard, and would hide a good deal of the obvious signs of hacking. Not to mention other hacks like triggerbots and no recoil.

People are savvy about hacking, and it can be really hard to figure out if they are skilled, lucky, hacking, or some combination.

 

[Trickster]

is this sarcasm or a joke post?

has to be. I didn't play alot of CS and even I ran into cheaters

Dead serious. I'm not saying I didn't ran into them, I'm sure I did. I'm just saying it was never to a point where, as far as I can remember, it was obvious that someone was playing with cheats enabled

 

[Jebusman]

Even in CS: source, I encountered cheaters very rarely(I can literally count on one hand the number Ive faced in almost 10 years of playing the game) because I went into well moderated servers and favourited them so I knew which ones were generally good.

I mean that's all well and good for avoiding cheaters on your own time, but it doesn't really do anything to disprove the notion that cheaters exist in unpleasant enough numbers that they ruin games for a lot of people. Consistantly.

Hiding on a moderated server isn't a solution when I'm playing ranked CSGO. I'm entirely at the whims of matchmaking. And when matchmaking decides I gotta play against the SCAR-20 spinbot, it's pretty much a wasted 30 minutes of my time.

My favorite was in TF2, a sniper with precision accuracy who would DDOS the server if he died.

This actually happened more than once. On different servers.

 

[Interfectum]

Agree, combined with what Zeliard said earlier.

Yup, Zeliard used the perfect term: insidious.

Most of the people who cheat are good without cheats. It's just another added bonus to their arsenal. It's in their best interest to not let you think they are cheating. There are times you can see them push too far but, again, did you see it or were they just that good.

 

[trixx]

Now people ill switch to the superior e-port shooter: splatoon. lol if only it as also available on pc.

Joking of course. Blizzard did one hell of a job with the beta, shame that there were cheaters; wasn't aware of them, I just knew I sucked hard. Other than this the game looks like it will have one hell of a future.

 

[TheCanisDirus]

Ugh... I was really wanting to get this game on PC, but I think I'm going to have to go PS4.

I'll likely be doing the same thing. Hell, i was all set to build a gaming PC and have been waiting for the new Pascals... but with all this talk of cheating (no just in this thread/forum) i'm questioning whether that's wise considering i mostly play competitive shooters.

 

[bee]

met one obvious cheater in 15hrs personally, got called a cheater 3 times

 

[Doombacon]

I wonder if they are going to do banwaves like in Diablo 3 and modern WoW or spot bans like the old days. I've always been a fan of banwaves since you get to see a ton of assholes get publicly reamed which is just wonderful.

 

[Apathy]

I wonder if they are going to do banwaves like in Diablo 3 and modern WoW or spot bans like the old days. I've always been a fan of banwaves since you get to see a ton of assholes get publicly reamed which is just wonderful.

The down side to ban waves is that until they drop you're dealing with these assholes in ranked games and hurting your standings. Both have their pros and cons.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

I'm not the person in question. But I used to play CS a lot way back when, and I cannot remember a single instance where I fought someone who was an obvious cheater.

I played a lot of CS back in the day and there wasn't a single day we didn't have to ban someone from our server because he was using an aimbot and/or wallhack or other cheats.

 

[DryvBy]

I played again yesterday for an hour on PC and I didn't experience this. I have experienced it like I said but it's actually still rare. I don't think people are going to lose their Battle.net games to cheat.

 

[UnrealEck]

Still getting it on PC. I'm sure it happens but I never noticed anyone cheating during the lengthy time I played.
I'm sure Blizzard will take care of things. Cheating before release is less of a concern than people seemingly making it more of a concern. Once the game is out, people buy it, Blizzard ban them. Money for Blizzard. There's probably no anti-cheat measures or little policing going on for cheating during testing phases too. But at the same time, cheating is technically part of the testing phase.

 

[rauelius]

Guess I'll play Batteborn instead, they're the same game right? /s

 

[Boogdud]

I played again yesterday for an hour on PC and I didn't experience this. I have experienced it like I said but it's actually still rare. I don't think people are going to lose their Battle.net games to cheat.

Oh my sweet summer child. There are people with subscriptions to bot packages for games like this. They pay big money to use these cheats. They have no problem dropping $40 every few weeks to make your life miserable if they choose. Most of the time they are sophisticated enough to toggle them while playing so they just look 'gud'. But there are some guys that just live to make this stuff a living hell.

I'm not saying the game is or will be rife with them, but the more popular the game, the more of these guys you're going to get. They have no problem dropping money to get it done.

Guess I'll play Batteborn instead, they're the same game right? /s

I've got bad news for you...

 

[DryvBy]

Oh my sweet summer child. There are people with subscriptions to bot packages for games like this. They pay big money to use these cheats. They have no problem dropping $40 every few weeks to make your life miserable if they choose. Most of the time they are sophisticated enough to toggle them while playing so they just look 'gud'. But there are some guys that just live to make this stuff a living hell.

I'm not saying the game is or will be rife with them, but the more popular the game, the more of these guys you're going to get. They have no problem dropping money to get it done.





I've got bad news for you...

Right I know that. I'm saying it's not as plagued with cheaters as the title suggest. There's a ton of people playing and I've put in a good chunk in this beta. I've had about 2 games where I ran into cheaters.

I just think the average player isn't going to cheat is all because of the possibility of their account getting banned.

 

[Muzicfreq]

The down side to ban waves is that until they drop you're dealing with these assholes in ranked games and hurting your standings. Both have their pros and cons.

This.
This would be where the console versions kinda win out due to not having to deal with crap like that.

 

[Boogdud]

Right I know that. I'm saying it's not as plagued with cheaters as the title suggest. There's a ton of people playing and I've put in a good chunk in this beta. I've had about 2 games where I ran into cheaters.

I just think the average player isn't going to cheat is all because of the possibility of their account getting banned.

It's a fair point. I think a lot of people that will be playing OW will be invested in several other Blizzard games. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of people are going to be crossovers from other Blizzard games. But the people doing this stuff likely won't be, and they won't care.

Unfortunately, it doesn't take very many of these folks to ruin a game. Especially when you're not on dedicated servers and you're relying on matchmaking.

 

[espher]

https://www.twitch.tv/surefour/v/65416316?t=1h54m40s


Yeah he cant even hit a pillar like he just locks onto reins head

It's interesting how he tries to demo that and misses wildly, and then there's a segment right around 1h58m where he does the same sort of 'kill someone and immediately snap to and perfectly track someone else'. Like if you can't track flick to objects in multiple attempts in a spawn, you're not going to convince me that you can reliably do it perfectly while bunny hopping and facing mobile opponents. I've had some lucky/amazing flick shots but they're clearly just that - not someone who is routinely hitting them in game-play but can't hit them trying to demonstrate that he can hit them.

Swapping to the right after the Lucio kill was the most logical place to move.

Swapping to the right is what I would have done to get a gauge, but it would have been a quick peek to see the size before I took a look at the Winston to see if I could sneak a shot. I certainly wouldn't have snapped to and tracked a D.Va that I knew was far away.

Perhaps this player has a history of prioritizing tanks that are far away to try and soften them up on the off-chance they expose three pixels through a wall, though.

The best cheaters are the ones that only use their tools in situations where they make 'logical' plays or where you'd say 'yeah, he's good enough that he could hit that, rarely'. I know one guy that played UT99 that was a fantastic player but used a triggerbot (and, while he could, took advantage of the centerview 'exploit') to give him the edge to make those amazing game-saving shots. It only came to light well after I had left the community (and it was an old community at the point I left).

 

[labx]

so... I didn't suck that much... was the AIM bots. Fuck you mindkind.

 

[Pewpewlazors99]

The pricing model of the game will almost be enough to combat cheaters, Blizzard just needs to work on making sure their anti-cheat system will be able to catch people eventually. It might be a problem at the start, but once bans start happening it will probably die down. If I'm wrong, and cheating turns into a major problem, this game will die before its first expansion or DLC content.

 

[Tecnniqe]

It's interesting how he tries to demo that and misses wildly, and then there's a segment right around 1h58m where he does the same sort of 'kill someone and immediately snap to and perfectly track someone else'. Like if you can't track flick to objects in multiple attempts in a spawn, you're not going to convince me that you can reliably do it perfectly while bunny hopping and facing mobile opponents. I've had some lucky/amazing flick shots but they're clearly just that - not someone who is routinely hitting them in game-play but can't hit them trying to demonstrate that he can hit them.

Yeah it's funny to watch.

 

[randomengine]

I played against a Widowmaker player who would snipe me through the trees on the long narrow greek stage. Had to be aimbot. Had to be.

 

[Acerac]

Considering how frighteningly slow Blizzard is at banning cheaters, this is a really bad sign.

This is my main fear, Blizz's behavior in WoW does not inspire confidence.

 

[Ferrio]

I played against a Widowmaker player who would snipe me through the trees on the long narrow greek stage. Had to be aimbot. Had to be.

Or they were good. The first reaction to being dominated shouldn't be that they're cheating, it should be "Damn they're really good". Though it's always hilarious when you're accused of it.

 

[Rhaknar]

do snipers in this game even need to headshot you to kill you? wont a charged shot just kill you anyway if you have a low health character? I got smoked by Widowmaker and Hanzo on my healers all the time and those were no headshots in the replays

 

[Zomba13]

I played against a Widowmaker player who would snipe me through the trees on the long narrow greek stage. Had to be aimbot. Had to be.

Could have used her ult and seen you through the leaves.

 

[randomengine]

Could have used her ult and seen you through the leaves.

...It was the beginning of the match.

 

[Ferrio]

...It was the beginning of the match.

Her gun cues you when someone is in your sights.

 

[randomengine]

Or they were good. The first reaction to being dominated shouldn't be that they're cheating, it should be "Damn they're really good". Though it's always hilarious when you're accused of it.

Being a regular player of TF2, seeing both good players and cheaters, I can tell the difference between cheaters and non-cheaters.

 

[randomengine]

Her gun cues you when someone is in your sights.

How would she even know to aim there? I was on the other side of the map. Stop defending cheaters, guys.

 

[randomengine]

The funny thing about aimbots is that they can be tuned. I've played against players in TF2 who I accused of cheating who were giving themselves just enough of an edge. I pissed them off enough to tune it all the way to obvious cheating.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

People keep posting this gif as if it is 100% undeniable. Put a player with good enough muscle memory can pull that degree of aim off. And we're talking about pro level here who runs with a high sensitivity to boot. Also, youtube plays vids at what, 30 fps? And taimou probably runs the game at greater than 120 fps.

I'm not saying the video isn't sketchy, but I wouldn't call it proof of hacks. Watching it in slow motion you can see that his aim going from lucio to D.VA (? at first in low res I thought it was someone else) across the bridge is not a straight light and curves upward like natural human movement would.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1d04Q4XO30

That's just my perspective after watching that video a bunch of times. It's easy to just look at it once and conclude that is hacking cause people don't know what a pro level player is capable of. Even player to player is different and taimou plays at a much higher sensitivity than most pro players (to my knowledge) do.

edit:
Oh right, I forgot to address the fact that people think D.VA was off screen. She was on screen several times when he was unscoping though. I think benefit of the doubt is in order for the player. I don't consider that to be a major issue. I mean, certainly if someone is going to be banned you need better evidence then this imho.

I played against a Widowmaker player who would snipe me through the trees on the long narrow greek stage. Had to be aimbot. Had to be.

Could be a result of different graphics levels. The artists sometimes have missed low res fixtures allowing small advantages for playing at low graphics settings. They fix these as they spot them though or as they are reported to them.

 

[Onemic]

I mean that's all well and good for avoiding cheaters on your own time, but it doesn't really do anything to disprove the notion that cheaters exist in unpleasant enough numbers that they ruin games for a lot of people. Consistantly.

Hiding on a moderated server isn't a solution when I'm playing ranked CSGO. I'm entirely at the whims of matchmaking. And when matchmaking decides I gotta play against the SCAR-20 spinbot, it's pretty much a wasted 30 minutes of my time.

My favorite was in TF2, a sniper with precision accuracy who would DDOS the server if he died.

This actually happened more than once. On different servers.

Well my example was in Source where you choose your own server. In CSGO I've never experienced a cheater(or at least an obvious one). Then again I havent played CSGO nearly as much as source.