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[Dedication Through Light]

About the declining sales, A large part of Wii's success as always been centered around a few select titles. It never really had the same steady stream the HD twins had or DS.

lol, I always thought about that as well. I wonder, just what is it about those select titles that keep them selling, lol. In terms of Sonys case, didnt someone indicate that the first party titles garner 1mln to 3 mln each, lol, perhaps that is the better and more ideal thing for software sales than just a few titles carrying the systems focus forward. Then again on a first party case the Xbox portfolio of titles is lower, but the 360 has lol huge third party fans with those huge sales of shooters and etc.

Though why would Nintendo care at the end of the day lol? They're probably sitting on some huge load of money as it is. Nintendo first party could perhaps carry the system and future systems forward on their own, lol. Well those are my two cents.

I can't help but feel like this is why Nintendo's online infrastructure is lagging so far behind its competitors. SSBB's online mode was a joke.

Well it was decent as was Pokemon Battle Revolution, they just didn't provide any incentives to encourage people to keep playing, and in Brawls case, lol, Lag truly ruined alot of the experience. Otherwise, I think Nintendo has missed numerous opportunities to implement online. lol, it blows my mind why Wii Sports Resort didnt have (why Wii Party), seems like it probably wont have an online mode as well. Those are ideal games, even some online game modes in Wii Fit Plus would have been nice, lol.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

What can they offer though to an fps, it works on a leveling questing rpg with a massive world i dont know how it will work on a 12 player fps with maps and such. There simply wont be the content that will keep people intrested fuck half the cod player base sticks to one setup and likes one or two of the maps.

That's the rub, how to have the enduring hunger of an MMO, the relative pick-up-and-play simplicity of a FPS, and the obscene profitablity of browser games (you know it's on their minds just by their statements) combine Voltron-esque into this money-printing juggernaut.

Neither fish nor fowl, this shit, mark my words, will not fly, and they'll kill the geese who lay them golden eggs by trying.

 

[Eteric Rice]

DS is obviously in its twilight. It's a managed decline, though, with 3DS prepared to assume the throne with impeccable timing.

Wii, on the other hand... I won't say the software side is in freefall. It is clearly unhealthy, though, and no successor is in sight. If this continues, next year Nintendo will be poised to confront a strange decision: whether to kill off the #1 console and leap into the next generation first or to keep riding the unresponsive Wii market.

I think starting their next generation with good, but affordable hardware wouldn't be a bad idea. They'd set the stage for the next generation, forcing MS and Sony's hand.

Hopefully if this did happen, it would allow developers to use their current engines though... Which is suppose is possible if they modified them.

 

[Ashes]

hmm... about COD, I've -as will many others have had- seen a fair few -once mighty- games fall. And I think this series may follow suit. Brands aren't everything, the games matter. And in this day and age, metacritic and game rankings do as well.

 

[BobTheFork]

ugh, he just always sounds like an asshole when he tries to point things like that out.
'Increased game quality lead to more playing time and less new purchases!' yeah thanks, Mike!

 

[Dedication Through Light]

ugh, he just always sounds like an asshole when he tries to point things like that out.
'Increased game quality lead to more playing time and less new purchases!' yeah thanks, Mike!

lol they end up in a huge circle if companies follow this. lol they want games to have great game quality but then to monetize on the mutliplayer hours spent in the games, yet they want to ensure that people dont play the games too long because then they they wont make new purchases. But then if the game is too short then people will be trading their games in thus fostering new used game sales, lol, this is getting insane. Well thats the way I see it

 

[donny2112]

Has it been brought up that the MCVUK article is wrong?

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-being-prematurely-abandoned-by-publishers-says-pachter/

Wii software was down 19% YOY and not 29%. Again, how much of that was the minimum $9m drop in revenue, assuming all the units were made up elsewhere by full-priced games, and by bundling WSR?

 

[BobTheFork]

lol they end up in a huge circle if companies follow this. lol they want games to have great game quality but then to monetize on the mutliplayer hours spent in the games, yet they want to ensure that people dont play the games too long because then they they wont make new purchases. But then if the game is too short then people will be trading their games in thus fostering new used game sales, lol, this is getting insane. Well thats the way I see it

Yeah it's self defeating; they don't gain anything by trying to make the game worse.
He has this weird habit of continually trying to point out to companies how to fuck us over - 'Psshhh they should have charged MORE for MW2 map packs'

 

[jedimike]

Sure Pachman... mutiplayer is a factor, but it is insignificant compared to other factors.

XBLA, WiiWare, PN, Indie Games - I've spent more money on XBLA titles than I have at retail. Obviously, I don't need to buy as many retail games because my gaming needs are being met.

Retal pricing - I agree with others here, not every game needs to be $60. Give us some pricing variety.

Multimedia capabilities - I spend just as much time watching Netflix (watching Zombieland right now , playing movies, listening to Last.FM, as I do playing games.

...but really, the 360 attach rate is at 8.9. That's pretty damn good and shows that gamers are buying.

 

[freddy]

He has this weird habit of continually trying to point out to companies how to fuck us over - 'Psshhh they should have charged MORE for MW2 map packs'

Yea strange that. Sometimes it almost sounds like it's something he gets paid for. Of course I'm not suggesting that he is but he'd make great PR for those interested in pushing these ideas to gamers. Hmm.

 

[jvm]

I know it's not really looking at the merits of his theory, but I don't think that word means what he thinks it does.

I believe the meaning here is that the industry is in an long-term decline period. ("Pertaining to an age, or the progress of ages, or to a long period of time; accomplished in a long progress of time; as, secular inequality; the secular refrigeration of the globe.")

 

[jvm]

Has it been brought up that the MCVUK article is wrong?

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-being-prematurely-abandoned-by-publishers-says-pachter/

Wii software was down 19% YOY and not 29%. Again, how much of that was the minimum $9m drop in revenue, assuming all the units were made up elsewhere by full-priced games, and by bundling WSR?

MCVUK didn't read Pachter's follow-up email (which came about 5 minutes after the first one) where he spelled out the correction from 29% (error) to 19% (correct).

 

[Dead Man]

I believe the meaning here is that the industry is in an long-term decline period. ("Pertaining to an age, or the progress of ages, or to a long period of time; accomplished in a long progress of time; as, secular inequality; the secular refrigeration of the globe.")

Yeah, maybe. I was not familiar with that definition.

 

[Vizion28]

Why is it there always seem to be an undertone of doom and gloom with Pachter when it comes to Wii?

The fact is there has been more Wii software sold than 360 and PS3 in their lifetime.

Just because you don't see many Wii games in the top 20, aside from the 'evergreen' titles, doesn't mean Wii software is not selling. It could be that many Wii owners buy many different games and their sales are not front loaded.

 

[magnificent83]

Why is it there always seem to be an undertone of doom and gloom with Pachter when it comes to Wii?

The fact is there has been more Wii software sold than 360 and PS3 in their lifetime.

Just because you don't see many Wii games in the top 20, aside from the 'evergreen' titles, doesn't mean Wii software is not selling. It could be that many Wii owners buy many different games and their sales are not front loaded.

Heh, its because, based on his E3 Bonus round interviews, he believes Nintendo could be doing way more to get gamers' money. That's where most of his opinions originate from. The idea that game companies should be striving to make more money than they are now. Nintendo should be working on a WiiHD or a proper online infrastructure, or charging more for their games or working on DLC. I would assume these are the kind of ideas he would espouse for Nintendo to jump on and follow.

 

[Quasar]

Sure Pachman... mutiplayer is a factor, but it is insignificant compared to other factors.

XBLA, WiiWare, PN, Indie Games - I've spent more money on XBLA titles than I have at retail. Obviously, I don't need to buy as many retail games because my gaming needs are being met.

That certainly is how its worked out for me. I've bought probably less than a dozen full blown 60$ disc games this gen on console. I just buy PSN/XBLA titles mostly. Plus PC of course which is probably where most of my gametime/money has always been.

Part of it of course is how my tastes don't really mesh with what dominates the disc console side. But also because the downloadable space keeps me entertained enough so i don't feel the need for full disc games that often.

Though thinking about the PC landscape and digital distribution like Steam and Impulse, the one interesting thing thats come out of the competition is pretty much aside from MMO's and a few other select titles all the gamers I know just don't but full priced games. They splurge on a Steam sale and stockpile games and play those till the next year/sale. Thats true for me too.

 

[plufim]

Isn't this the same song Pachter was singing about the Wii last year? And then the holidays came along and the Wii had one of its best year ever.

May is such a ridiculous month to base any trends upon.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I would say it is more of a catch 22.

Gamers want more value for their dollar. Titles get lashed for not having MP and being "Short". While the titles that do it successful turn out to be a massive fucking void. They sell a lot of copies, but also kill off a lot of the other titles that don't match it's content value.

I think the only real way to solve this is going back to more PC roots. Consoles just can't support the higher prices and full expectations on developers to provide the content. They need a better fluctuating price scheme, and to slowly become more open to user content. I really see no reason why they should either, it basically promotes your game for free.

About the declining sales, A large part of Wii's success as always been centered around a few select titles. It never really had the same steady stream the HD twins had or DS.

Exactly. This is just Pachter being the money worshiping sales analcyst that he is. Ironically, he's just a big fat enabler. Instead of giving insightful advice that actually might grow the industry, all he does is reinforce the blame, blame, blame (the consumer) mentality. Good games with budgets that don't overshoot their realistic sales base tend to do fine. It's not multi-player that's the problem, it's inept management that has an idiotic vision of what the industry is.

 

[Dan Yo]

Exactly. This is just Pachter being the money worshiping sales analcyst that he is. Ironically, he's just a big fat enabler. Instead of giving insightful advice that actually might grow the industry, all he does is reinforce the blame, blame, blame (the consumer) mentality. Good games with budgets that don't overshoot their realistic sales base tend to do fine. It's not multi-player that's the problem, it's inept management that has an idiotic vision of what the industry is.

Pachter's assumptions on the matter come from a place of complete ignorance. Gamers either can't afford or justify spending $60 on every single release throughout the year. Apparently, publishers (and certain out of touch analysts) assume we are a fan base of limitless funds that can be tapped at any time during this harsh economic period.

Hopefully, they figure out sooner rather than later, that increasing costs or monetization is the exact opposite of the answer to their problem. Increasing the customer base through more reasonable pricing is.

 

[hokahey]

Ive bought more games for my Wii than any system since the Super Nintendo.

 

[SapientWolf]

Pachter's assumptions on the matter come from a place of complete ignorance. Gamers either can't afford or justify spending $60 on every single release throughout the year. Apparently, publishers (and certain out of touch analysts) assume we are a fan base of limitless funds that can be tapped at any time during this harsh economic period.

Hopefully, they figure out sooner rather than later, that increasing costs or monetization is the exact opposite of the answer to their problem. Increasing the customer base through more reasonable pricing is.

If it was just a matter of money then the free or cheap games would consistently be the most popular. But that's not what's happening.

 

[Kintaro]

So, basically...this industry is entirely dependent on Nintendo right now. If they do well, the industry does well (but they get no credit). If they do okay, the industry is in deep shit (and they take all the blame).

How about the simple fact that this year marks the around the 5th year of the generation (started by Microsoft) and sales generally start to trend downwards from this point on? There's some wiggle room though. DS is 6th year, PS3 and Wii are 4th years, but they've all become intertwined. Neither the 360 or PS3 have really managed to break out at all due to high costs (while the Wii crushed them) nor will they ever break out from underneath each other.

The generation simply gets boring around year 5 or 6. Kinect or Move won't help. They're just aping something Nintendo did from day one in this generation. Patcher sees it, but refuses to say it (well, besides laying at Nintendo's feet going WII HD PLZ).

<puts on Master Race hat>

Come back to the PC, developers. Your one, true home. You chased the rainbow looking for riches at the end and so far, the vast majority of you have come up empty or dead. It is time to come back home.

 

[arstal]

So, basically...this industry is entirely dependent on Nintendo right now. If they do well, the industry does well (but they get no credit). If they do okay, the industry is in deep shit (and they take all the blame).


Come back to the PC, developers. Your one, true home. You chased the rainbow looking for riches at the end and so far, the vast majority of you have come up empty or dead. It is time to come back home.

The thing is, indy/smaller devs have filled in the void quite capably left by the big boys, with better quality, reasonably priced stuff. Whereas many of the Big Boys on the PC are trying to turn the PC into a console.

I almost think we need a crash just to weed out all the bad ideas.

 

[Kintaro]

The thing is, indy/smaller devs have filled in the void quite capably left by the big boys, with better quality, reasonably priced stuff. Whereas many of the Big Boys on the PC are trying to turn the PC into a console.

I almost think we need a crash just to weed out all the bad ideas.

The "Big Boys" should dump their publishers and work for themselves on the platform. The indies are definitely catching up (and even surpassing them) and doing it on their own terms.

 

[Kittonwy]

I'm surprised how little discussion there is of the Wii/DS in this thread: the Wii and DS are the obvious offenders here, with (what appears to be) persistent and rather rapid downward trends in software.

I've yet to see any real evidence that the PS3/360 are seeing software declines. I'm not saying that such evidence doesn't exist, mind you: I'm suggesting that it isn't apparent. What is apparent, however, is that the Wii is seeing a very rapid decline, particularly for a leading console.

I think we're reaching a point where the notion of the PS3 and 360 significantly outlasting the Wii -- despite their relative lack of success -- may be likely. Either 1) The Wii is a normal console experiencing a traditional 5 year console lifespan, which means the PS3/360 are freak systems that continue to sell strongly well past the 5 year barrier, or 2) The PS3/360 are normal systems, and the Wii is a short lived system that dies off rapidly.

I don't really care which way you put it, but the evidence that we're seeing one of those two situations is mounting.

The PS3/360 are systems that have to last more than 5 years because another hardware change will start sinking more and more developers and publishers due to development costs being too high.

The wii was never a "normal" console, it sold to a userbase who enjoyed things like wii sports/fit/play, that is not a traditional console userbase to begin with, a lot of them bought the system for Nintendo motion control games but publishers are trying to sell them games other than the very thing they bought the console for, and the remainder are mostly traditional Nintendo gamers who enjoy Nintendo games, OF COURSE games won't really sell, aside from things like RE/MH where the userbase of those IPs basically is willing to follow where the titles go.

I don't necessarily think this is a problem for Nintendo because their brand is strong and people buy their consoles for their software, they could probably survive without third-party support.

 

[EDarkness]

The wii was never a "normal" console, it sold to a userbase who enjoyed things like wii sports/fit/play, that is not a traditional console userbase to begin with, a lot of them bought the system for Nintendo motion control games but publishers are trying to sell them games other than the very thing they bought the console for, and the remainder are mostly traditional Nintendo gamers who enjoy Nintendo games, OF COURSE games won't really sell, aside from things like RE/MH where the userbase of those IPs basically is willing to follow where the titles go.

This isn't true at all and part of the reason why the Wii is in the place it's in now. For some odd reason people think that Wii owners don't buy the same type of games that they do on other systems, and for some reason or another they're completely different types of gamers. Developers keep singing that song, but it's simply not true. There are many types of Wii gamers, that's true, however there are still tons of Wii gamers who are simply gamers and want compelling games like Call of Duty, Resident Evil, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, etc. Instead of trying to make top notch games, Wii owners keep getting spin offs, "reimaginings", "kiddie" versions, or simply crappy games. Publishers and developers aren't even bothering to advertise their Wii games, so how can anyone who owns a Wii reason trust in the quality of the software their getting? Then these same companies will cry foul about how Wii owners don't buy games.

They expect Wii owners to lap up whatever crap they make and be happy, which is total BS. The good part is that people can generally trust in the quality of Nintendo games, but the same thing can't be said about 3rd party games. They've poisoned the water, and I'm sure by now they know it, but don't really care. Just look at the recent Transformers game. That whole situation is sad.

I don't necessarily think this is a problem for Nintendo because their brand is strong and people buy their consoles for their software, they could probably survive without third-party support.

They've been pretty much doing this on the Wii from the beginning. It shouldn't be like this, and I hope their next console doesn't get the shaft like the last two.

 

[NeonZ]

This isn't true at all and part of the reason why the Wii is in the place it's in now. For some odd reason people think that Wii owners don't buy the same type of games that they do on other systems, and for some reason or another they're completely different types of gamers.

I agree partially with you. However, it's also a self fulfilling prophecy. BECAUSE those games never came to the Wii, people who had a Wii and could be interested in them, not only in titles like WiiSports, might have bought new consoles or just given up on buying Wii software after a while.

At this point, I think many proper games from 3rd parties might sell better on the PS3 or Xbox 360... I don't think that was always the case though, but it's probably the current situation.

 

[Dan Yo]

This isn't true at all and part of the reason why the Wii is in the place it's in now. For some odd reason people think that Wii owners don't buy the same type of games that they do on other systems, and for some reason or another they're completely different types of gamers. Developers keep singing that song, but it's simply not true. There are many types of Wii gamers, that's true, however there are still tons of Wii gamers who are simply gamers and want compelling games like Call of Duty, Resident Evil, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, etc. Instead of trying to make top notch games, Wii owners keep getting spin offs, "reimaginings", "kiddie" versions, or simply crappy games. Publishers and developers aren't even bothering to advertise their Wii games, so how can anyone who owns a Wii reason trust in the quality of the software their getting? Then these same companies will cry foul about how Wii owners don't buy games.

They expect Wii owners to lap up whatever crap they make and be happy, which is total BS. The good part is that people can generally trust in the quality of Nintendo games, but the same thing can't be said about 3rd party games. They've poisoned the water, and I'm sure by now they know it, but don't really care. Just look at the recent Transformers game. That whole situation is sad.




They've been pretty much doing this on the Wii from the beginning. It shouldn't be like this, and I hope their next console doesn't get the shaft like the last two.

3rd party games are generally multiplatform. Given the choice, a "regular" gamer will choose to play the 360 or PS3 version simply because that will always be the superior version. Why? Hardware decisions made by Nintendo, not the 3rd party developers.

 

[donny2112]

3rd party games are generally multiplatform.

If that were true this generation, Wii third-party sales would be devastating everyone else instead of simply out-pacing them launch-aligned greatly due to the vastly larger userbase. Revisionist history doesn't work well.

Edit:
Maybe you're talking simply quantity, in which case that might work. As far as the games that publishers care about doing well, no, they have most certainly not been completely multi-platform this generation, and the system with the short stick is the market leader.

 

[EDarkness]

3rd party games are generally multiplatform. Given the choice, a "regular" gamer will choose to play the 360 or PS3 version simply because that will always be the superior version. Why? Hardware decisions made by Nintendo, not the 3rd party developers.

This isn't true. The superior version generally comes down to which version gets the most attention during development and good buzz. My friend's son swears by the Wii versions of the Lego games, and I would imagine that the Wii version gets the most dev time and will generally sell the most. Same can be said for games like Tiger Woods golf where the Wii version is generally considered better than the 360/PS3 versions. It's not simply about hardware, but also a willingness to actually make compelling software.

The problem is that 3rd party guys aren't even trying to really make compelling software. You think the Wii can't make a good version of a 3rd person Transformers game and that it had to be on rails? Bottom line is that Activision didn't really care about that version and slapped something together on the cheap. Why did they even bother with making a shovelware Transformers game? Especially since Activision wasn't going to try to give Wii owners a good game. Again, more poison for the Wii market, and anecdotally, I've already seen people upset that they paid for the Wii version of the game and it was nothing like the PS3/360 game. What are these guys gonna do next time? The whole situation is just messed up.