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[Ollie Pooch]

I agree but I liked and understood what they were doing with the Wii. One of my favourite consoles. But they just seem so.....clueless now. Shit.

I don't think its cluelessness as much as a really single-minded following of their 'make gaming accessible to the masses at any cost' thing.

Iwata is always talking about expanding the market to people who would normally be 'afraid' of gaming machines, like his comments about someone being able to use a tablet with Youtube breaking down a wall between them and using a gaming system (the Wii U). It explains so much of their dumbing down of many franchises, the handholding, the weird shoehorning in of motion controls in otherwise 'traditional' games, and their lack of interest in creating something powerful. It's been pretty clear for years that the 'core' gamer is not their priority in the slightest beyond throwing them the odd bone, and anything suggesting to the contrary should be passed off as Reggie's usual bullshit PR spin.

In a year, I have no doubt the machine will have a few killer Nintendo titles, but once again it just seems they're not interested in catering to established gamers at all, despite their claims. I have a feeling the audience they're after has moved on, thanks to Apple, and established gamers won't touch the thing with a ten foot pole.

 

[Rich!]

OT- i7 has no benefits for gaming, get i5.

Hmmm. Will look into that. I've got an AMD Phenom II x4 @3.8ghz right now. If an i5 is a large jump up from that, I may well just get a reasonable mobo+i5 combo.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

In before the WII U hate train retards.

Don't really care anymore this boards worse than Gamespot now.

man, this whole wiiU fiasco has really taken a toll on some folks hasn't it?

 

[Shining Sunshine]

That's a suicide if I saw one.

Farcry jumped passed FIFA? Very interesting. Usually transfer season makes things exciting.

 

[Mpl90]

Irish Chart

http://www.chart-track.co.uk/index.jsp?c=p/software/ire/latest/index_test.jsp&ct=210015

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

In before the WII U hate train retards.

 

[Bumhead]

CEX: Wii U 32GB Premium Black No Game, Boxed, We buy for : £162.00, Give exchange : £180.00.

That cash price has gone down by a tenner since I looked at the start of January. Not surprising giving how many CEX seem to have on their hands at the minute. I suspect you'll be able to pick up a used Premium Wii U for sub £150 by March.

Probably too early to be saying this

Possibly, but I honestly suspect not. I was around for the 3DS launch debacle so I'm well aware of the necessity to wait and see, and the ability of Nintendo specifically to turn things around if they have to. But I genuinely think this is different. I think the laundry list of things Nintendo need to do to kick start the Wii U in the UK is too long, the cost to implement them all too great and the amount of available time left to do it unopposed by Sony and Microsoft too small.

The 3DS revival was impressive, but it was at least built on foundations. I mean, for all its launch faults, didn't the 3DS at least have a higher install base Day One than the Wii U has now? Throughout the 3DS launch, there was always a feeling it could be remedied by Nintendo. The Wii U situation right now feels more like the Vita to me than the 3DS.

 

[AgentP]

360 software doing great in the UK, as usual.

No Vita or WiiU games, as usual.

So what you are saying is the install base size has some effect on software sales?

 

[Baconsammy]

Wii U is doing awful...blah blah blah broken record. The thing that should frighten Nintendo is that despite the supposed huge 3DS push this past holiday season they sold much fewer units in the US than last year and their numbers for software/hardware in Europe look dreadful as well. At what point do Nintendo need to wonder if the 'weak hardware wrapped around a single gimmick' approach is maybe not working outside of Japan? I wonder if despite killing off Wii support years ago we don't have big games right off the bat for the Wii U is because Nintendo found out the hard way that making HD games isn't easy.

The 3DS revival was impressive, but it was at least built on foundations. I mean, for all its launch faults, didn't the 3DS at least have a higher install base Day One than the Wii U has now? Throughout the 3DS launch, there was always a feeling it could be remedied by Nintendo. The Wii U situation right now feels more like the Vita to me than the 3DS.

I think they'll find it was easier to save the 3DS simply because they and third parties didn't abandon the DS years before the 3DS came out.

 

[fabricated backlash]

man, this whole wiiU fiasco has really taken a toll on some folks hasn't it?

Some never recovered from the PS3 launch fiasco, with the Vita being a relapse.

The true fallout from the WiiU won't be obvious until a few years later^^

 

[Sissel]

You've grown up, man.
Nintendo are a "family" console-maker (FAMIcom, anyone?), focused on kids, its what they've always been, and always will be.
Accept it, move on. Or buy the console when its cheap enough, which is what we'll all likely do.

The GCN wasnt focused on family.

 

[m.i.s.]

NOE...are absolutely clueless in how to promote their products or the 3rd party library here.

Instead of marking this as a new beginning, a new era, they basically told people: Hey look, more fun like Wii with WiiU. Not aknowledging their spectacular fall in popularity.

They have to make a clean cut now. Present the WiiU not as a continuation of Wii, but a new product.

It's similar to how Activision ran Tony Hawk into the ground. By the time they tried to revive the franchise they still tried to ride the long gone popularity of the franchise instead of making a clean cut.

The Wii-WiiU, DS-3DS brand transition will make for a prime example on how to mismanage a brand from complete dominance to utter irrelevancy by complacency.

I think people misrepresent the amount of fail here. Nintendo didn't just screw up now, they screwed up years ago by failing to migrate their brands to a new generation.

They're not going to dig themselves out in a year, or 2. There's no game in the world that would get them out of this trainwreck and save the WiiU or 3DS brand. They will make money off it, but they aren't going to represent a significant player in the market.

Again, the WiiU will be profitable, but I don't expect the company to even play a role this coming gen when it comes to audiences.

Personally I'd put this down to Nintendo being a rigid and slow company, that despite good plans is just too slow to adapt to a changing market.

Oh, I don't disagree. The strategy, power, touchscreen functionality, branding of the device has all been decided by NCL executives in Japan. Similar complaints to NoE advertising have been made by American gamers in respect of NoA's advertising. It doesn't distinguish from the Wii's branding simply because...it can't.

Perhaps Pachter was right after all. A safe, iterative, Wii HD with a wiimote Plus in 2010 or 2011 would have kept the Wii brand alive with 3rd party downports and Nintendo HD titles. The touchscreen has simply muddied the waters with little discernible benefit. It has the exact same functionality of a dualshock controller - with a screen in the middle!

 

[liger05]

Wii U is doing awful...blah blah blah broken record. The thing that should frighten Nintendo is that despite the supposed huge 3DS push this past holiday season they sold much fewer units in the US than last year and their numbers for software/hardware in Europe look dreadful as well. At what point do Nintendo need to wonder if the 'weak hardware wrapped around a single gimmick' approach is maybe not working outside of Japan? I wonder if despite killing off Wii support years ago we don't have big games right off the bat for the Wii U is because Nintendo found out the hard way that making HD games isn't easy.



I think they'll find it was easier to save the 3DS simply because they and third parties didn't abandon the DS years before the 3DS came out.

What huge 3DS push. They released no major titles in the holiday season.

 

[Father_Brain]

I wonder if despite killing off Wii support years ago we don't have big games right off the bat for the Wii U is because Nintendo found out the hard way that making HD games isn't easy.

I think this is an increasingly safe conclusion, barring some major news from the next Nintendo Direct. We're halfway through January, and not only have several of the originally promised launch window titles slipped into Q2 (Pikmin 3) or possibly later (The Wonderful 101, which wasn't even mentioned in the last ND, IIRC), we don't have a single release date for any Q1 first-party title.

 

[maabus1999]

With the strength of the Yen I doubt Nintendo will do much outside of Japan until manufacturing costs come down.

I expect the weakness in Europe to continue.

 

[m.i.s.]

I think this is an increasingly safe conclusion, barring some major news from the next Nintendo Direct.

In the N64 to GCN transition, Nintendo went from a resolution of 320x240 to 640x480. Not quite have to do double resolution this time around from Wii to Wii U but the GCN generation saw some pretty long dry spells.

Plus, this time Nintendo has to work on there network functionality - on which they appear to have little prior experience.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Baconsammy]

What huge 3DS push. They released no major titles in the holiday season.

I said "supposed". Nintendo made a point of saying that the 3DS was going to be their point of emphasis this past holiday season. That doesn't appear to have worked out well for them.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Oh, I don't disagree. The strategy, power, touchscreen functionality, branding of the device has all been decided by NCL executives in Japan. Similar complaints to NoE advertising have been made by American gamers in respect of NoA's advertising. It doesn't distinguish from the Wii's branding simply because...it can't.

Perhaps Pachter was right after all. A safe, iterative, Wii HD with a wiimote Plus in 2010 or 2011 would have kept the Wii brand alive with 3rd party downports and Nintendo HD titles. The touchscreen has simply muddied the waters with little discernible benefit. It has the exact same functionality of a dualshock controller - with a screen in the middle!

I don't think a WiiHD would have done any good. That would've muddied the brand into an iterative model, which outside of phones isn't really viable thanks to the lack of contracts subsiding for costs.

The WiiU is simply a whole year too late, a whole year of Nintendo driving their Wii brand off a cliff with a complete lack of enthusiasm from them. It's complacency at it's worst.

I will maintain that specs are completely irrelevant. The WiiU having a high end 2012 PC specs or not doesn't make a single difference. (with the exception of the minuscule but very vocal group of enthusiast gamers)
The real problem is that Nintendo foolishly believed that there was enough market presence left from the Wii and DS brand.


To asume that after they themselves pretty much left both plattforms dead in the water for more than a year or two respectively is mind boggling.

Again, the WiiU will be a very profitable operation for Nintendo when all is said and done, but it's never going to play any significant role in a modern market, being relegated to the tiniest market share just like the Gamecube. I'll be more than willing to eat crow, but I highly doubt that I'll have to.

That said, I also expect one of the next gen systems to play a significantly lower role next gen. I'm currently thinking that the PS4 will fall even further, than the PS3, but it's the console I plan to get regardless of what MS is doing as I won't support their business modell again.

Likewise, Crow with a side of potatoes as applicable.

 

[m.i.s.]

I said "supposed". Nintendo made a point of saying that the 3DS was going to be their point of emphasis this past holiday season. That doesn't appear to have worked out well for them.

At least the 3DS appears to be somewhat salavageable for Nintendo (and Japan is already there). I'd expect a renewed focus on Nintendo's handheld from here on out.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Wii U is doing awful...blah blah blah broken record. The thing that should frighten Nintendo is that despite the supposed huge 3DS push this past holiday season they sold much fewer units in the US than last year and their numbers for software/hardware in Europe look dreadful as well. At what point do Nintendo need to wonder if the 'weak hardware wrapped around a single gimmick' approach is maybe not working outside of Japan? I wonder if despite killing off Wii support years ago we don't have big games right off the bat for the Wii U is because Nintendo found out the hard way that making HD games isn't easy.


I think they'll find it was easier to save the 3DS simply because they and third parties didn't abandon the DS years before the 3DS came out.

Why do you insist on painting this picture of Nintendo being comprised of recently thawed-out prehistoric programmers and designers who're totally oblivious as to what HD represents relevant to video game development?

Converting their 2D franchises into 3D competently was a much more challenging task, but, nevertheless, they were able to produce some of the best 3D games of the N64 era, including a few that were released at or close to the console's launch window.

 

[Mpl90]

What huge 3DS push. They released no major titles in the holiday season.

But still, looking at charts across Europe at the end of last year and even now, with NSMB2 in top 10s if not in top 5s and the other two Mario titles not so distant in some charts, I have a feeling in Europe the plan worked, especially thanks to the Club Nintendo deal: at least in Italy, both 3D Land and Layton have suddenly become some of the most downloaded games ever on the eShop, well into the top 10 ( so, not just current). And New Style Boutique is in top 20 too.

 

[Azuardo]

You've grown up, man.
Nintendo are a "family" console-maker (FAMIcom, anyone?), focused on kids, its what they've always been, and always will be.
Accept it, move on. Or buy the console when its cheap enough, which is what we'll all likely do.

You're actually spot on about that.

It's definitely been on my mind in the last few years that I've "grown up," ...as ironic as that might sound if I'm to call myself a "gamer," - since when do you need to be a kid to play games which are fun?

But in actual fact, it IS the case. I look at what Nintendo offers as a first party these days, and I see very little of interest. I grew out of Pokemon after Gold, yet all the regulars on the site I write some stuff for are all 18-24, yet still bum the shit out of it, and blew up when Pokemon X and Y were announced. But I felt nothing. I see it as a kids game, which is why I stopped playing when I was 14, 15.

Same goes for Mario. Loved it as a kid and in my teens. But even Galaxy, as good as it is, just doesn't appeal to me any more.

I look at the 80+ games I own on PS3, and I see how my tastes have changed. I see so many 15+ and 18+ rated games, and it's the most fun I've had with games for years.

But it's definitely hard to see where the appeal comes with Nintendo these days. Metroid, F-Zero and Zelda are about the only ones that interest me. Everything else I've left in my childhood. I suppose it is time to accept that Nintendo simply aren't going to grow up with me - they'll always stick to their family-oriented market. And I suppose I shouldn't complain about that. But it's just a shame for a fan that has grown up with them that they won't grow up with me further.

 

[Baconsammy]

Why do you insist on painting this picture of Nintendo being comprised of recently thawed-out prehistoric programmers and designers who're totally oblivious as to what HD represents relevant to video game development?

Because of their inability to support their own hardware. And also because I've used a Wii U and saw what their programmers did with the system software.

 

[liger05]

I said "supposed". Nintendo made a point of saying that the 3DS was going to be their point of emphasis this past holiday season. That doesn't appear to have worked out well for them.

the NPD December number was not too shabby at all considering they released no major games.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Why do you insist on painting this picture of Nintendo being comprised of recently thawed-out prehistoric programmers and designers who're totally oblivious as to what HD represents relevant to video game development?

The games they've released so far and have coming soon haven't proven otherwise, I don't think.

 

[The Horror the horror]

Because of their inability to support their own hardware. And also because I've used a Wii U and saw what their programmers did with the system software.

So their "inability" to support their own hardware stems from their ignorance of HD game development. Though enlighten me what you mean about the Wii U software - I'll power mines on when I get home, so take me step by step.

 

[SpookyBlackFish]

How can I put it?...



Eh, just pick a couple of those.

So happy? Looks like you do not need any other video game related pastimes in the coming months if you can feast so very fine on watching a console probably failing. Last year must also have been a feast when watching the Vita. Healthy appetite for failure you got there!

 

[Baconsammy]

So their "inability" to support their own hardware stems from their ignorance of HD game development. Though enlighten me what you mean about the Wii U software - I'll power mines on when I get home, so take me step by step.

First of all, it was a question, not a definitive statement about their HD experience. The only definitive statement I made was that the system software for the Wii U is garbage. Because I think it is. But that has nothing to do with their lack of experience with HD, and everything to do with their inability to create quality system software. If you want examples of what I think is wrong with their system software, you can read my post history. The list is too long to post again, and this isn't the thread for it.

So happy? Looks like you do not need any other video game related pastimes in the coming months if you can feast so very fine on watching a console probably failing. Last year must also have been a feast when watching the Vita. Healthy appetite for failure you got there!

He's stated in the past why he's happy that Nintendo is failing, and it's not that Nintendo is failing that he likes. It's the approach they've taken that is failing, and I'm with him on that.

 

[Broken Hope]

For those saying Nintendo had a ton of time to make Wii U games, they probably didn't expect the 3DS to do as badly as it did, remember Nintendo had it's top teams making the 3DS versions, teams that were probably working on Wii U games, if the 3DS wasn't doing so badly I kinda doubt we would have gotten games such as Mario 3D Land as early as we did, which stopped that team from working on the Wii U 3D Mario.

Though I could be completely wrong and they are just incompetent, wouldn't really surprise me after the handling of the past 2 consoles.

 

[test_account]

For those saying Nintendo had a ton of time to make Wii U games, they probably didn't expect the 3DS to do as badly as it did, remember Nintendo had it's top teams making the 3DS versions, teams that were probably working on Wii U games, if the 3DS wasn't doing so badly I kinda doubt we would have gotten games such as Mario 3D Land as early as we did, which stopped that team from working on the Wii U 3D Mario.

Though I could be completely wrong and they are just incompetent, wouldn't really surprise me after the handling of the past 2 consoles.

Miyamoto announced in November 2010 that a 3D Mario game was in the works for the 3DS. I dont think that Mario 3D Land was rushed, i think it was planned to be a holiday 2011 title regardless of how the 3DS was selling.

 

[Azuardo]

I do feel that Mario Kart 7 was rushed, however. That game was such a massive let down to me. Learnt my lesson not to buy Nintendo games like that straight away again.

 

[Rich!]

I do feel that Mario Kart 7 was rushed, however. That game was such a massive let down to me. Learnt my lesson not to buy Nintendo games like that straight away again.

hm.

I loved 7. Thought it was far better than Wii.

 

[Twister Flipper]

France:
1) COD: Black Ops 2 (PS3)
2) FIFA 13 (PS3)
3) COD: Black Ops 2 (X360)
4) New Super Mario Bros 2 (3DS)
5) Need for Speed: Most Wanted 2 (PS3)

http://www.sell.fr/top




Italy:
1) Just Dance 4 (Wii)
2) COD: Black Ops 2 (PS3)
3) FIFA 13 (PS3)
4) Assassin's Creed 3 - D1 Edition (PS3)
5) COD: Black Ops 2 (X360)
6) FIFA 13 (X360)
7) New Super Mario Bros 2 (3DS)
8) Assassin's Creed 3 - D1 Edition(PS3)
9) PES 2013 (PS3)
10) Pokèmon Versione Nera (DS)

http://multiplayer.it/notizie/113402-classifiche-italiane-just-dance-4-in-testa.html

 

[Clay Davis]

where's the subtitle? three games bombing deserves to be acknowledged.

 

[metalslimer]

where's the subtitle? three games bombing deserves to be acknowledged.

Not really no.

 

[Clay Davis]

Not really no.

it really does.

 

[metalslimer]

it really does.

Well I wasn't going to say anything, but honestly imo having ridiculous subtitles for sales threads already starts them off in a bad way. It seems like sales threads at least should try an attempt to create civil and reasonable dicussion. Just my opinion. Its worked for a long time with NPD, Media Create, and these threads so I don't see why it should suddenly change.

 

[Clay Davis]

Well I wasn't going to say anything, but honestly imo having ridiculous subtitles for sales threads already starts them off in a bad way. It seems like sales threads at least should try an attempt to create civil and reasonable dicussion. Just my opinion. Its worked for a long time with NPD, Media Create, and these threads so I don't see why it should suddenly change.

acknowledging good or bad sales in a subtitle isn't in any way, shape or form ridiculous. what is ridiculous is to suggest it is.

the subtitles were also a nice way of making the thread stand out against those threads and create more interest from those who might otherwise not check pal charts.

ah well, if cjelly doesn't want to do them. so be it.

 

[Psychotext]

Aside from at Christmas, these threads have been pretty much dead... for the longest time we'd be lucky to get two pages out of them. That'll never happen with a Media Create or NPD thread, though admittedly that's because they get so much more in the way of numbers.

At least the subtitles have been a point of contention to discuss!

 

[SpookyBlackFish]

He's stated in the past why he's happy that Nintendo is failing, and it's not that Nintendo is failing that he likes. It's the approach they've taken that is failing, and I'm with him on that.

Ok, there really seems to be a reason then. I thought it would be either a joke or, well, just for no reason. Would also have been allright, you do not always need a reason to like or dislike things and explain it to other people. My reply was not meant as an offense, no facepalms, nor rolleyes.

 

[metalslimer]

acknowledging good or bad sales in a subtitle isn't in any way, shape or form ridiculous. what is ridiculous is to suggest it is.

I wasn't suggesting that acknowledging certain games sales in the title was a bad thing. I was talking about the over the top ones from the last few weeks.

 

[Persona86]

How is WiiU supposed to compete with consoles that have had years to get into peoples hands, of course there's going to be low statistics on game sales.

Nintendo are pretty laid back company, they are simply taking their time, once the big games start coming in they will be fine as usual, a price cut will also add a huge boost. But they are really going to have to step up their game when they make the next console, no more Wii's.

 

[Loudninja]

Well I wasn't going to say anything, but honestly imo having ridiculous subtitles for sales threads already starts them off in a bad way. It seems like sales threads at least should try an attempt to create civil and reasonable dicussion. Just my opinion. Its worked for a long time with NPD, Media Create, and these threads so I don't see why it should suddenly change.

Agreed.

 

[Clay Davis]

I wasn't suggesting that acknowledging certain games sales in the title was a bad thing. I was talking about the over the top ones from the last few weeks.

the catastrophe suffered by the wii u needed to be acknowledged though. I'm sorry you found them upsetting, but I felt they accurately portrayed the facts.

doesn't matter though, I'll leave future threads to cjelly. fun while it lasted I guess.

 

[Psychotext]

How is WiiU supposed to compete with consoles that have had years to get into peoples hands, of course there's going to be low statistics on game sales.

As has been stated many times, the issue is that these charts track bundled games... which means that the Wii U hardware sales (at least of the premium bundle) are absolutely horrific.

Nintendoland should at least be in the top 40 right now given that game sales will have slumped after Christmas. Remember, to do so right now all they'd need to do is sell around 1,500 premium consoles in a week (in the UK at least).

 

[Persona86]

As has been stated many times, the issue is that these charts track bundled games... which means that the Wii U hardware sales (at least of the premium bundle) are absolutely horrific.

Nintendoland should at least be in the top 40 right now given that game sales will have slumped after Christmas.

Yeah almost nobody is buying a WiiU now, including me, that's because I'm waiting for more games and a price cut, which is logical. I assume that's what most people are doing.

 

[metalslimer]

the catastrophe suffered by the wii u needed to be acknowledged though. I'm sorry you found them upsetting, but I felt they accurately portrayed the facts.

doesn't matter though, I'll leave future threads to cjelly. fun while it lasted I guess.

I didn't find them upsetting at all. Like a subtitle like "No Wii U or Vita games in top 40" would be a good informative way to get people into the topic. "Wii U BOMBA VITA DIES LULZ" I don't think is. I feel like that's reasonable, but maybe I'm just being a party pooper.

 

[Psychotext]

Terms like MIA should be fine though... or we'll have half page long titles.

Wouldn't harm to mention specific titles not charting either I imagine.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Why do you insist on painting this picture of Nintendo being comprised of recently thawed-out prehistoric programmers and designers who're totally oblivious as to what HD represents relevant to video game development?

Converting their 2D franchises into 3D competently was a much more challenging task, but, nevertheless, they were able to produce some of the best 3D games of the N64 era, including a few that were released at or close to the console's launch window.

That's comparing apples and oranges. The jump from 2D to 3D was challenging because it required rethinking game design on a fundamental level. The power jump this passing generation was challenging because it massively increased the complexity of generating game assets.

And the reason people think Nintendo may be struggling with it is because pretty much the entire industry struggled with it. Look at SE, their HD development is still a clusterfuck. 4 and a half years after MGS4, Kojipro have produced 1 PSP game and an HD collection while most of their resources are tied down in sorting out their engine development. Nevermind the list of developers and publishers who have crashed out.

The question isn't why would Nintendo be affected by the problems of HD development, it's why would they be immune when the rest of the industry wasn't?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

It might be an idea to add previous weeks stand-out releases to the thread title. Might get a bit crazy during Christmas but could always just be more selective.