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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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J

Jenga

Banned
K7 Avenger said:
I'm a noob here pretty much, why is Gamespot a banned site to link to? I know Destructoid is another one.
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all CNET sites I think who gave the order to fire gerstmann apparently
 
C

cilonen

Member
K7 Avenger said:
I'm a noob here pretty much, why is Gamespot a banned site to link to? I know Destructoid is another one.
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Noob as in the last five seconds? The thread you're currently posting in, and the one right next to it in the sticky section is the very genesis of what you're asking!

Or is this some clever recursive posting trick, or a rift in the gaf-time continuum...

*cue twilight zone music*
 
Petrae

Petrae

Member
chespace said:
This whole incident has damaged our industry and put everybody's integrity into question... and that's a real bummer.
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QFT.

There's no way that any reviewer at any high-profile site can prove his or her integrity now. How do you prove that you weren't coerced into inflating scores or changing a few words? You can't. As news of this incident spreads like wildfire, the reputations of reviewers everywhere goes up in smoke along with it.

It's been a good run, but sites like GS, IGN, 1up, and others have suddenly lost a ton of credibility.
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
nightowl said:
This is probably ignorant of me but...
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No this is good, very interesting stuff. Then again I'm just a pizza guy so my word counts for little.

Either way it's really ugly. No matter what the truth is Gamespit is stuck in the middle of a shitstorm right now.
 
D

Danj

Member
Richardfun said:
I'm from the Netherlands and to me, that sounds f**king ridiculous.
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I'm from the UK and I agree, but that's just the way things are over there in the States, they have very little in the way of consumer protection or employee protection. And their mobile phone network sucks.
 
R

RumFore

Banned
I dunno Gerstmann kinda looks like a trouble maker so there could be more to it. Also, I actually thought he owned Gamespot. Oh well.
 
K

K7 Avenger

Member
cilonen said:
Noob as in the last five seconds? The thread you're currently posting in, and the one right next to it in the sticky section is the very genesis of what you're asking!

Or is this some clever recursive posting trick, or a rift in the gaf-time continuum...

*cue twilight zone music*
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I've been here for a few months but not really. I post heavily at systemwars.com, used to post at ************* a whole lot and sometimes at Penny Arcade forums.

I lurk here more, hi though :D
 
G

Grecco

Member
This whole incident has damaged our industry and put everybody's integrity into question... and that's a real bummer.
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yeah i was thinking yesterday night on how it was like the steroid scandal in baseball the guilty will hurt the inocent now and that sucks.
 
F

FlyinJ

Douchebag. Yes, me.
Petrae said:
QFT.

There's no way that any reviewer at any high-profile site can prove his or her integrity now. How do you prove that you weren't coerced into inflating scores or changing a few words? You can't. As news of this incident spreads like wildfire, the reputations of reviewers everywhere goes up in smoke along with it.

It's been a good run, but sites like GS, IGN, 1up, and others have suddenly lost a ton of credibility.
Click to expand...

Hell, the whole of Cnet has lost credibility. The be-all-end-all of tech product reviews, and all of them are now called into question.

They completely screwed the pooch on this one.
 
A

Azih

Member
Cyan said:
Are you kidding? Why do you think everything in the US has so many warning labels? Where do you think those stupid start-up "Press A" screens on Nintendo games came from?
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Those are warnings put in for legal purposes, consumer protection is a completely different thing.
 
C

cilonen

Member
K7 Avenger said:
I've been here for a few months but not really. I post heavily at systemwars.com, used to post at ************* a whole lot and sometimes at Penny Arcade forums.

I lurk here more, hi though :D
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I didn't mean to come off as an ass there, so sorry if I did!

It just struck me as funny that you were asking why G*spot was now banned, in the thread discussing the incident which lead to their banning. :D
 
D

Danj

Member
Cyan said:
Are you kidding? Why do you think everything in the US has so many warning labels? Where do you think those stupid start-up "Press A" screens on Nintendo games came from?
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No, I was referring to the fact that you don't have a legal right to minimum 1 year warranty on new purchases in the US, whereas we here in the UK do.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
nightowl said:
This is probably ignorant of me but...
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That seems like a good interpretation to me. Well done.

The only thing I might add to it, that I'm sure has been tossed around in this gigantic thread I'm never going to read all of if I want to get anything done this weekend, is speculation that Cnet perceived our crowd would rejoice at this news. I think it would be fairly easy to foster a belief that gamers, in general, dislike Jeff Gerstmann and have been eager for some time to see him canned, especially if such a belief fell in line with one's own views about Gerstmann.
 
J

Justin Bailey

------ ------
Danj said:
No, I was referring to the fact that you don't have a legal right to minimum 1 year warranty on new purchases in the US, whereas we here in the UK do.
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Oh ok, yeah I can see why that one single aspect of your policies means that the US has very little consumer protection. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
N

nightowl

Member
TekunoRobby said:
I think 3 hours is enough time to warrant a response from either Eidos or CNET if any of this were erroneous.
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Amazing timing TekunoRobby, CNet just released a statement according to the stick that is joyful.
 
M

minus_273

Banned
Richardfun said:
I'm from the Netherlands and to me, that sounds f**king ridiculous.
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well everyone signs a contract like that when they start. Thats how companies here can stay competetive. Ive seen what happens in europe (France last year) when they tried to introduce similar laws. I've heard that in france as long as you do the bare minimum you cant be legally fired.
stuff like this would never even fly in corporate america:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3935669.stm
 
N

nightowl

Member
echoshifting said:
That seems like a good interpretation to me. Well done.

The only thing I might add to it, that I'm sure has been tossed around in this gigantic thread I'm never going to read all of if I want to get anything done this weekend, is speculation that Cnet perceived our crowd would rejoice at this news. I think it would be fairly easy to foster a belief that gamers, in general, dislike Jeff Gerstmann and have been eager for some time to see him canned, especially if such a belief fell in line with one's own views about Gerstmann.
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I've not seen that suggested, but it is an interesting point. I'd think it would be short sighted though personally. Most people I've read at least respected Gerstmann's reviews even if they didn't agree with them. I'm in that camp at least but it has seemed to be the majority.

I wonder how badly the powers that be at CNet wished they had promoted him out of the position (the classy way that bigger business often resolves its problem employees) instead now. :D
 
E

Evlar

Banned
Funny enough, they link back here. :lol

EDIT: Has anyone posted the gamesindustry.biz story? It contains a few extra points that hadn't been highlighted before.

GamesIndustry.biz has learned that GameSpot's US reviews editor has left CNET Networks following an incident involving the site's recent **** & ***** review.

A source close to the editorial team has revealed that the row focused on the tone of the content of the original review, which was apparently subsequently altered.

The game scored 6 out of 10, and although it's unclear how the text of the review may have changed from its original format, it's not thought that the score was altered.

GameSpot reviews are regularly submitted to the wider editorial team for quality and accuracy reasons, and small changes can be made at this point before the article is published.

Rumours elsewhere cited possible reasons for the editorial changes as being the result of pressure from the **** & ***** publisher Eidos, which had marketed the game on the site.

The source revealed that members of the editorial team were extremely disappointed by the incident.
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I think that's the first I've heard about changing the wording of the review. More at the link (background info on Gerstmann and a mention of Tracy's departure).
 
S

SpotAnime

Member
Richardfun said:
I'm from the Netherlands and to me, that sounds f**king ridiculous.
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So says the US judicial system, which is why in reality it's so difficult for an employer to fire someone.

Aside from the employment exception laws, I thought of another possible scenario which would explain the time lapse from when the review was posted until now. CNET management might not have had a beef with Jeff before, or at least not enough to classify him as JIJ (job in jeopardy). In this case, he posts the review, Eidos complains to CNET and pulls advertising, and then CNET talks to Jeff about changing his editorial "style" going forward. He could have simply said no, which gives an employer justification for termination on grounds of insubordination, and over the course of the past three weeks, with the holiday in between, formal paperwork was drafted, reviewed, and submitted to support their case, and a settlement agreed to by both parties.

In any case Jeff undoubtedly had contracted legal services during the process. Has it been confirmed he was "fired" or "let go" (read: laid off)? Yes, there is a difference.
 
E

Eric P

Member
Richardfun said:
I'm from the Netherlands and to me, that sounds f**king ridiculous.
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man you should read up on our labour movements and issues

this is the degree of employee protection we've worked to from the past.
 
K

K7 Avenger

Member
cilonen said:
I didn't mean to come off as an ass there, so sorry if I did!

It just struck me as funny that you were asking why G*spot was now banned, in the thread discussing the incident which lead to their banning. :D
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Yeah I caught the sticky after I made the post. Woops.
 
G

Gary Whitta

Member
One of the (alleged) points that disturbed me about this is that the original Eidos plan for the Gamespot K&L ad-skinning was that the clickthrough was supposed to lead to the Gamespot review page. After the review came out, Eidos changed the link to the official K&L web page.

Think about that - doesn't that suggest an assumption on Eidos's part that the review would have been favorable? Where might they have got that idea from?
 
T

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
PepsimanVsJoe said:
I know.
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We have acknowledgment from them about the issue and that's worth more than saying "absolutely nothing." Baby steps.

Opus Angelorum said:
So the vague statement from CNet suggests they are not going to assume responsibility.
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Although that's probably reading into it too far I can see how you can reach that viewpoint.
 
E

echoshifting

Banned
nightowl said:
I've not seen that suggested, but it is an interesting point. I'd think it would be short sighted though personally. Most people I've read at least respected Gerstmann's reviews even if they didn't agree with them. I'm in that camp at least but it has seemed to be the majority.

I wonder how badly the powers that be at CNet wished they had promoted him out of the position (the classy way that bigger business often resolves its problem employees) instead now. :D
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I realize it's shortsighted, but less so than CNET being completely blindsided by the community's reaction thus far. This whole thing is just...so damn weird. The move doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

I mean, I've been coming here a long time, I read a lot more than I post (especially on the gaming side)...occasionally I'll hit some of the other big boards, too...and it seems to me like there are always at least a few people eager to point out that if Gerstmann wrote the Big Deal Review Gamespot just posted, we should all just ignore it. Not to mention, few defenders to counter this sentiment.

I'm probably reaching but I'm trying to figure out how anybody in the position to fire Gamespot's EIC could have underestimated the impact the timing would have.
 
E

Evlar

Banned
Gary Whitta said:
One of the (alleged) points that disturbed me about this is that the original Eidos plan for the Gamestop K&L ad-skinning was that the clickthrough was supposed to lead to the Gamestop review page. After the review came out, Eidos changed the link to the official K&L web page.

Think about that - doesn't that suggest an assumption on Eidos's part that the review would have been favorable? Where might they have got that idea from?
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Yes Yes Yes that's something I've been trying to say. I'm honestly aghast that online sites would sell major ad-space that is specifically intended to click-through to a review that hasn't been written yet.
 
N

nightowl

Member
Gary Whitta said:
Think about that - doesn't that suggest an assumption on Eidos's part that the review would have been favorable? Where might they have got that idea from?
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That may be the status quo tho, you assume (hope?) the review will be favorable (hell, most sites default to 7+ anyway dont' they? :) ).

Of course, if you are GW, then you would know better than I. :)
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
Gary -- be careful not to mix up GameSpot with GameStop. Two very different companies. Well, they USED TO BE! *grin*
 
S

SpotAnime

Member
While it's nice to see CNET taking the accusations seriously, the statement doesn't confirm or deny the facts behind the controversy, or add any significant information to the story. With the rumor still generating significant discussion throughout the online gaming community, such a short, pat statement seems unlikely to stop the gathering storm of attention.
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They can't comment on performance issues with former employees, they can only verify dates of employment and titles. Otherwise they could be held liable for preventing future employment of said employee.

This is as much of an official statement as anyone will see on this. Eidos won't issue any official statement because they could be found at fault for wrongful termination in a court of law.
 
R

Richardfun

Member
minus_273 said:
well everyone signs a contract like that when they start. Thats how companies here can stay competetive. Ive seen what happens in europe (France last year) when they tried to introduce similar laws. I've heard that in france as long as you do the bare minimum you cant be legally fired.
stuff like this would never even fly in corporate america:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3935669.stm
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It might be strange that people who do the bare minimum you require them to can't be fired. However, the US system (as I see it now in my admittedly, limited way) seems to open the door for alot of unfounded firing by working the system and using loopholes, as someone just described might have happened with Gerstman.
 
Petrae

Petrae

Member
TekunoRobby said:
We have acknowledgment on the issue from them and that's worth more than saying "absolutely nothing." Baby steps.

If you'd like to read into it you can construe that viewpoint.
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I don't know if I buy your assertion that they're acknowledging the issue. They don't even confirm Gerstmann's departure.

It reads to me like, "Our reviews aren't biased. Trust us."

That's only part of the issue here. It's a token few words just to appease the gathering angry mob and nothing more.
 
C

cilonen

Member
SpotAnime said:
They can't comment on performance issues with former employees, they can only verify dates of employment and titles. Otherwise they could be held liable for preventing future employment of said employee.

This is as much of an official statement as anyone will see on this. Eidos won't issue any official statement because they could be found at fault for wrongful termination in a court of law.
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That's like the fabled 'kiss of death' reference from your previous employer when going for a new job.

"Yes, we can confirm *** worked here from *** until ***".
 
T

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Petrae said:
I don't know if I buy your assertion that they're acknowledging the issue. They don't even confirm Gerstmann's departure.

It reads to me like, "Our reviews aren't biased. Trust us."

That's only part of the issue here. It's a token few words just to appease the gathering angry mob and nothing more.
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If there was nothing that needed to be addressed why would they issue a public statement? They're acknowledging an issue regardless if they think it has merit or not. By their simple "no comment" message they've clearly established that they're aware of the public murmurings and deemed it necessary for a response. If it were a flat out lie don't you think they'd at least shed some light on that in order to quell negative public image? I think we're getting hung up on the semantics of whether or not acknowledging the issue means openly debating it or simply coming forward with a response to the accusations. My own commentary of acknowledgment is referring to the latter.
 
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