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Penny Arcade 11/30/2007 Jeff Gerstmann fired from Gamespot, allegedly for K&L review

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nightowl said:
That may be the status quo tho, you assume (hope?) the review will be favorable (hell, most sites default to 7+ anyway dont' they? :) ).

Of course, if you are GW, then you would know better than I. :)
Well I stopped working full-time as a gaming editor at around the time that online gaming press started going mainstream so I've never really worked in the era of the 7-9 scale. Thank God.

I think generally yeah publishers want to have faith in their games, but I think in the case of K&L Eidos must have suspected they didn't have a gem on their hands and that less-than-stellar scores were a probability. Couple this with what we're hearing about the "over-aggressive" sales guy at Gamespot that put the Eidos deal together (came from a men's mag), and it's not hard to believe that Eidos may have been given some kind of nudge-nudge assurance that the review clickthrough would work out just fine.
 

SpotAnime

Member
cilonen said:
That's like the fabled 'kiss of death' reference from your previous employer when going for a new job.

"Yes, we can confirm *** worked here from *** until ***".

My company's policy is that we can't even give good references on former employees. Any information given based on performance can potentially be applied against them. I have to give full disclosure when giving references that I cannot comment on an employee's performance, only verify dates and positions held.
 

Petrae

Member
TekunoRobby said:
If there was nothing that needed to be addressed why would they issue a public statement? They're acknowledging an issue regardless if they think it has merit or not. By their simple "no comment" message they've clearly established that they're aware of the public murmurings and deemed it necessary for a response. If it were a flat out lie don't you think they'd at least shed some light on that in order to quell negative public image?

Fair enough. It is apparent that the statement was drafted in response to the angry masses, but it really does nothing to add any clarity to a very fuzzy situation.
 

SpotAnime

Member
Gary Whitta said:
Well I stopped working full-time as a gaming editor at around the time that online gaming press started going mainstream so I've never really worked in the era of the 7-9 scale.

I think generally yeah publishers want to have faith in their games, but I think in the case of K&L Eidos must have suspected they didn't have a gem on their hands and that less-than-stellar scores were a probability. Couple this with what we're hearing about the "over-aggressive" sales guy at Gamespot that put the Eidos deal together (came from a men's mag), and it's not hard to believe that Eidos may have been given some kind of nudge-nudge assurance that the review clickthrough would work out just fine.

Just another reason why gaming magazines need to diversify their advertisers, otherwise they have no leverage in cases like this.
 

nightowl

Member
Part of this that concerns me is...

Edios...while they are getting significant backlash in the short term, my initial thought was it was CNet's decision and capitulation that is to blame, Edios being pissy is understandable.

However, if Edios escapes punishment/backlash from this entirely, do they not in a way win? Sure, they still have a crappy game and the joy that will come with that, but what about publishers that would enjoy critics having a renewed sense of fear of bad reviews? Would that be some twisted sort of win for them?

Ultimately game journalists (sorry, I'm not going to debate that label) suffering collatreral damage from this situation may actually be a boon to publishers, perhaps even giving them more perceived leverage to try to exert some level of control on reviews.

I don't claim to know how but anyway to stamp out THAT perception is something we should probably push/support.
 
stewacide said:
I recall watching these idiots play TP for the first time was like water torture. I know it's not kosher to make fun of fatties but Jesus Christ STAND UP while playing Wii Sports!!!

Yeah, watching them play Wii Sports from the couch was brutal. It was like the typical gamer stereotype brought to life.
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Petrae said:
Fair enough. It is apparent that the statement was drafted in response to the angry masses, but it really does nothing to add any clarity to a very fuzzy situation.
No but it is a start and often times that's one of the most important steps towards reaching any sort of resolve on the matter. I'm not optimistic but I'm hoping some more light will be shed on this matter from CNET themselves or the journalistic community. Anything really.
 

cilonen

Member
SpotAnime said:
My company's policy is that we can't even give good references on former employees. Any information given based on performance can potentially be applied against them. I have to give full disclosure when giving references that I cannot comment on an employee's performance, only verify dates and positions held.

Whoa, that's pretty severe. Can kind of see the reasoning in today's climate though. When I was applying for jobs after university that was the 'urban myth' staple bad reference of doom!

To get semi back on topic, I hope the PA guys aren't going to face any legal issues over this.
 
Zack-Morris said:
Yeah, watching them play Wii Sports from the couch was brutal. It was like the typical gamer stereotype brought to life.

Indeed. Half the fun of playing Wii sports is in going through the motions. I don't see the point just sitting around flicking your wrist.
 
Druz said:
So Gary give us your insight on the PC Gamer bribery that goes on. Write an essay on Crysis and Hellgate and then wrap it up with how this ties in with Gamespot.

Thank you.
Here's my insight.

I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000. During that time there was never any pressure or even suggestion from advertisers or my publisher to allow advertising to affect our editorial. Certainly there were instances where after a bad review a publisher would get pissed and threaten to pull their advertising, but in each instance we told them to do just that - there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry as a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads - we were routinely turning advertisers away because we didn't have the space to accomodate them. So we would just laugh when an advertiser threw a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them. So despite the accusations of the tin foil hat brigade who would see an Editor's Choice review and an advertisement for the same game in an issue of PC Gamer and instantly cry OMG PAYOLA, nothing even remotely like that ever happened or was even hinted at.

I haven't worked full-time for PC Gamer for seven years now but I know all the people who still run and write that magazine and the attitude is no different. Do you have specific allegations to make regarding the Hellgate and Crysis reviews?
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Gary Whitta said:
Here's my insight.

I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000. During that time there was never any pressure or even suggestion from advertisers or my publisher to allow advertising to affect our editorial. Certainly there were instances where after a bad review a publisher would get pissed and threaten to pull their advertising, but in each instance we told them to do just that - there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry as a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads. So we would just laugh when an advertiser through a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them. So despite the accusations of the tin foil hat brigade who would see an Editor's Choice review and an advertisement for the same game in an issue of PC Gamer and instantly cry OMG PAYOLA, nothing even remotely like that ever happened or was even hinted at.

I haven't worked full-time for PC Gamer for seven years now but I know all the people who still run and write that magazine and the attitude is no different. Do you have specific allegations to make regarding the Hellgate and Crysis reviews?
Hahaha well done.

PC Gamer fucking rocked back then.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Gary Whitta said:
I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000.

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? PC gaming was my life between roughly that time period... and PC Gamer was my bible. Seriously, I have stacks and stacks in my basment. You sir are a god to me. Thanks for all the awesome work back then.


Regards,
Your #1 fan
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Gary Whitta said:
Here's my insight.

I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000. During that time there was never any pressure or even suggestion from advertisers or my publisher to allow advertising to affect our editorial. Certainly there were instances where after a bad review a publisher would get pissed and threaten to pull their advertising, but in each instance we told them to do just that - there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry at a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads. So we would just laugh when an advertiser through a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them. So despite the accusations of the tin foil hat brigade who would see an Editor's Choice review and an advertisement for the same game in an issue of PC Gamer and instantly cry OMG PAYOLA, nothing even remotely like that ever happened or was even hinted at.

:lol I knew you were involved with PCG, but you were the EIC back then? God damn my brother and I loved the magazine so much in the 500-page days (clearly I'm not the only one). Probably among my fondest gaming-reading memories; you could read an issue for months. This is all totally OT, but cheers to you my good man.
 

nightowl

Member
cilonen said:
To get semi back on topic, I hope the PA guys aren't going to face any legal issues over this.

I think they are fairly safe for multiple reasons. Not the least of which are the protections in U.S. law of satire (and who can argue that a comic at its base is not some form of that?). Also if you look closely they don't actually show the Gamespot logo, the only name mentioned directly was Gerstmann's and I'm not sure he'd have any problem with its use. :)
 

traveler

Not Wario
Gary Whitta said:
Here's my insight.

I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000. During that time there was never any pressure or even suggestion from advertisers or my publisher to allow advertising to affect our editorial. Certainly there were instances where after a bad review a publisher would get pissed and threaten to pull their advertising, but in each instance we told them to do just that - there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry as a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads - we were routinely turning advertisers away because we didn't have the space to accomodate them. So we would just laugh when an advertiser threw a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them. So despite the accusations of the tin foil hat brigade who would see an Editor's Choice review and an advertisement for the same game in an issue of PC Gamer and instantly cry OMG PAYOLA, nothing even remotely like that ever happened or was even hinted at.

I haven't worked full-time for PC Gamer for seven years now but I know all the people who still run and write that magazine and the attitude is no different. Do you have specific allegations to make regarding the Hellgate and Crysis reviews?

I had no idea you were the EIC for PC Gamer back then. Wow. Your guys' work was terrific. Thanks much.
 

Crushed

Fry Daddy
Gary Whitta said:
Here's my insight.

I was the Editor-in-Chief of PC Gamer from 1996 to 2000. During that time there was never any pressure or even suggestion from advertisers or my publisher to allow advertising to affect our editorial. Certainly there were instances where after a bad review a publisher would get pissed and threaten to pull their advertising, but in each instance we told them to do just that - there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry as a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads - we were routinely turning advertisers away because we didn't have the space to accomodate them. So we would just laugh when an advertiser threw a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them. So despite the accusations of the tin foil hat brigade who would see an Editor's Choice review and an advertisement for the same game in an issue of PC Gamer and instantly cry OMG PAYOLA, nothing even remotely like that ever happened or was even hinted at.

I haven't worked full-time for PC Gamer for seven years now but I know all the people who still run and write that magazine and the attitude is no different. Do you have specific allegations to make regarding the Hellgate and Crysis reviews?

I bet that whenever a hardware manufacturer threatened The Vede, he crushed them under his manliness.
 

nightowl

Member
PjotrStroganov said:
Recap please. All I see in the op is that GS is being blocked because of a comic.


Here was my take on the whole mess a couple pages back:

This is probably ignorant of me but...

While facts from Jeff would be preferred, I feel we have a pretty good read on the situation from those with inside sources (PA and former Gamespot employees). This is obviously speculation but it appears to be the most credible explanation that the available information suggests.

The overal indication appears to be the following:

Jeff (and perhaps others of his editorial team) were not well liked within management (and perhaps especially with "new" management). He (and his team?)were known to have irritated publishers in the past with reviews that were both lower than expected in score and considered harsh (honest?) in tone.

The Kayne and ***** issues appears to be the final tipping point in which CNet Management, after hearing yet another publisher either threatening or actually pulling advertising dollars out of the site finally decided to act to resovle their "problem" with Jeff (and his team?) and his tone's negative impact on their advertising revenue.

By sacrificing him (as PA suggests) they achieve two things (from their POV). They remove the "ring leader" and send a chilling warning to those that are left. Those remaining will likely either fall in line out of fears of job security or leave in frustration, either way changing their editorial team's tune to one that management wants them to be singing.

Of course the obvious problem is the apparent ignorance of the amount of backlash that such a move would cause. It seems almost frightfully ignorant to think that they couldn't have forseen the impact this would have on their credibility and perception among their readers.

Either management made a very hasty and unwise move or they calculate that any backlash will not be significant enough to outweigh the "gain" they perceive they will have by sending the aforementioned message to their editorial team.

Is there an angle I missed? (I'm confident that there is :) )
 
PjotrStroganov said:
Recap please. All I see in the op is that GS is being blocked because of a comic.

Gerstman got sacked from Gamespot, and since he was EIC, this was done by CNet. Supposedly (and these are rumours so far), he got sacked because he did a not so positive review of a certain game from Eidos, who had a big stake in the review since they had synced an ad campaign worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars on Gamespot with the review. Apparently, the management of Gamespot wasn't too happy with Jeff costing them advertising revenues (Eidos threatened to pull out of future ad campaigns, and the current one) and they felt firing Jeff would be good for their 'bottom line'.
 

sugaki

I live my life one quarter-mile at a time
As Che said, threatening to pull ads is nothing new. Game companies do it quite often.

Eidos isn't in the wrong at all. It's all Gamespot management's fault. Eidos has no obligation to give Gamespot ad dollars. Now it's a poor practice no doubt, but if Eidos doesn't want to give cash that's their prerogative. I highly doubt it's because Eidos planned on tying links to the review from ads. Specifics of directing URLs usually aren't in IOs, as the score themselves are an unknown. Heck, publishers nowadays get ticked off with 7.0+ ratings--a certain major pub had to deal with angry calls from Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed.

Gerstman's firing was not completely without warning. They told him multiple times of his negative scores and "tone", and following that he wrote this review. It was the straw that broke the management's back. Of course, they're stupid for firing him as it only makes the site lose credibility. And eventually, Eidos would have to start pitching ad campaigns to Gamespot anyway--if they don't that's millions of impressions down the drain.

What the editors should do is walk out, or stage some major protest. Without doing so it really kills credibility--not to mention the will to actually write an honest review.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
traveler said:
I had no idea you were the EIC for PC Gamer back then. Wow. Your guys' work was terrific. Thanks much.

We need to start up a PC Gamer Golden Era Appreciation Thread on a quieter day.
 
Tnx guys. It seems that it all depends on PA position as a respectable and dependable source now. Even though the rumours are very tantalising, I really am hesitant to point a finger at anyone.
 

Tieno

Member
Our father Sam Kennedy dropped a juice one right there and clears up my confusion about why all of a sudden Jeff's review 'tone' is a problem, as it didn't seem to matter when he got promoted to EIC, and he's been there for years and in the years I've seen him there it hasn't really changed or not drastically.
 

Aurelius

Member
RSTEIN said:
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS? PC gaming was my life between roughly that time period... and PC Gamer was my bible. Seriously, I have stacks and stacks in my basment. You sir are a god to me. Thanks for all the awesome work back then.


Regards,
Your #1 fan
I wholeheartedly concur! Terrific magazine!
 

nightowl

Member
PjotrStroganov said:
Tnx guys. It seems that it all depends on PA position as a respectable and dependable source now. Even though the rumours are very tantalising, I really am hesitant to point a finger at anyone.

Personally I'm not hesitant to drink PA kool-aid, but there have been more than one former Gamespot employee adding to the mix their own credibility.

FYI, not debating or suggesting your hesitancy is misplaced.
 

nightowl

Member
Tieno said:
Our father Sam Kennedy dropped a juice one right there and clears up my confusion about why all of a sudden Jeff's review 'tone' is a problem, as it didn't seem to matter when he got promoted to EIC, and he's been there for years and in the years I've seen him there it hasn't really changed or not drastically.
I agree fully, if he was harsh he appears to have been consistently so. What changed? Management apparently.
link: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/071025/20071025006333.html
 
just sent this to Leslie Van Every over @ GS pr dept.

Hi Leslie,

My name is Michael Konopko. I've been a subscriber to Gamespot for more than several years (member name 'superfunkyballs'). I cancelled my subscription today in reaction to the firing of Jeff Gerstmann. I love video games, and I enjoy reading and watching reviews of upcoming titles. When I heard that your company let him go because of the 'tone' or the score he gave a game developed by Eidos/Io interactive, an advertising client on your site, I promptly went to the unsubscribe page. There are many excellent web sites for a video game fan to patronize. I'm writing to you so cnet knows that canceling my subscription was done in protest of your firing a reviewer whose score and opinion: gamespot's content, is compromised by your desire to keep your advertisers happy.

Michael Konopko
 

nightowl

Member
Opus Angelorum said:
From the FAQ:
I'm not a regular really, but more of a breaking news type of Gaf reader. What story was so terrible that the stick that is joyful got the filterhammer? Anyone know?
 

Fun Factor

Formerly FTWer
Gary Whitta said:
- there were plenty of other advertisers who'd be happy to take that space. I should clarify that this was during a boom time for the magazine and the industry as a whole, when we were putting out issues of almost 500 pages, around half of which were ads - we were routinely turning advertisers away because we didn't have the space to accomodate them. So we would just laugh when an advertiser threw a hissy fit like that; we were the #1 magazine, they needed us much more than we needed them.


Anyone remember GameGo? Former GameFan editors started up that magazine after GameFan folded?
They only lasted two issues & they talked about how they offered advertising for free & still companies wouldn't come on board.

Seems like the advertising bubble burst a long time ago.
 
nightowl said:
Personally I'm not hesitant to drink PA kool-aid, but there have been more than one former Gamespot employee adding to the mix their own credibility.

FYI, not debating or suggesting your hesitancy is misplaced.

Indeed, this is something to take into account.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
FTWer said:
Anyone remember GameGo? Former GameFan editors started up that magazine after GameFan folded?
They only lasted two issues & they talked about how they offered advertising for free & still companies wouldn't come on board.

Seems like the advertising bubble burst a long time ago.

I would love it if all gaming media (hell, all media) were purely subscription-based. Of course that would never happen; just another mess cheapasses hath wrought.
 

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
mosaic said:
As much as it'd be cool if Tim Tracy quit because of what happened, the truth is Tim was let go the same day as Jeff (Wednesday) for different reasons...
Any news on what that reason was yet?
 
mosaic said:
As much as it'd be cool if Tim Tracy quit because of what happened, the truth is Tim was let go the same day as Jeff (Wednesday) for different reasons...

And that reason is?? You can't just give a hint and not say anything.
 

Tieno

Member
Rich Gallup's post on Jeff Gerstmann was very nice, why did Rich leave gamespot though? And where is he now?
 

mosaic

go eat paint
twinturbo2 said:
Any news on what that reason was yet?
I don't have an inkling. Tim transferred into MP3.com months ago. I simply know that he was let go, and that it wasn't because of the Jeff thing.
 
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