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[hydrophilic attack]

I think gaffers jumping on this chance to criticize Phil for this statement haven't really been a thinking things through and taken a moment to consider the different market positions of Xbox and Playstation. Imagine, for a moment, that you're Phil.

You are a force of nature. A storm that plows through the field. An eagle stalking its prey. A fearless lion tearing through the jungle. Covering up such a chiselled chin and confident gaze with an HMD would be a crime against humanity unless it's done for the fullest and richest of gaming experiences. And us Xbox gamers are the same. We lead busy and interesting lives. We live in the moment. Could you imagine, after a night out with your bros, after all those tequila shots you lined up this hot chick with, letting her wait for even a minute? "Sorry babe, I'll be with you in a moment. I just gotta pretend I'm Batman for a minute. Just have to make sure Hikari-chan does her English homework" Fuck.That.Shit. Not happening.

Meanwhile, consider the Playstation fan. You have every reason to want to escape your basement and visit a virtual world. The headset being wired isn't going to be an issue. Like you were gonna get up from your couch any more often than every couple of hours to go to the fridge for a few pizza slices. The headset covering up your face is a feature, not a bug. This way you won't need to have a sob every time you happen to catch your reflection in your grimy bathroom mirror. Plystation know their fans. The PSVR is a product for the most loyal of Playstation fans, and through the Vita, they have a very good idea of the tastes of the most rabid of Playstation fans. They know that Summer Lesson will be the closest a women has let you since your mother reluctantly breastfed you. This is why they developed the game and made sure to have it ready for launch

(I didn't include PC players in my analysis, because at less than a million sold, the PC headsets aren't really a factor.)

 

[RoyalFool]

I could understand his arguments if it was a loss leader with unknown profitability down the line. But Sony are already making money on the hardware. Microsoft just missed the boat due to having a weak ass console on the market.

Fully expect Rift compatibility for Scorpio

 

[shandy706]

Well, he's right. Many of them are.


There are a few gems on PC and PSVR though.

 

[Trup1aya]

Do you see anyone saying it's not in its infancy?

Also, to the bolded, lots of people. Don't you read NeoGAF?

Well the juxt of his comment is that VR being in its infacy, there are still a lot of issues that need to be worked out.

Locomotion and camera manipulation, two of the most important aspects of a video gaming, are still being heavily experimented with, because ideal solutions are still escaping developers.THIS IS A FACT. its not even debatable. Yet you continue to argue that it's just a negative opinion.

It's his strategy that MS will get into console VR when the software matures a bit. Because it currently IS immature. You are choosing to take that as a slight against VR developers... when it objectively isnt.

 

[DoctorFling]

I think gaffers jumping on this chance to criticize Phil for this statement haven't really been a thinking things through and taken a moment to consider the different market positions of Xbox and Playstation. Imagine, for a moment, that you're Phil.

You are a force of nature. A storm that plows through the field. An eagle stalking its prey. A fearless lion tearing through the jungle. Covering up such a chiselled chin and confident gaze with an HMD would be a crime against humanity unless it's done for the fullest and richest of gaming experiences. And us Xbox gamers are the same. We lead busy and interesting lives. We live in the moment. Could you imagine, after a night out with your bros, after all those tequila shots you lined up this hot chick with, letting her wait for even a minute? "Sorry babe, I'll be with you in a moment. I just gotta pretend I'm Batman for a minute. Just have to make sure Hikari-chan does her English homework" Fuck.That.Shit. Not happening.

Meanwhile, consider the Playstation fan. You have every reason to want to escape your basement and visit a virtual world. The headset being wired isn't going to be an issue. Like you were gonna get up from your couch any more often than every couple of hours to go to the fridge for a few pizza slices. The headset covering up your face is a feature, not a bug. This way you won't need to have a sob every time you happen to catch your reflection in your grimy bathroom mirror. Plystation know their fans. The PSVR is a product for the most loyal of Playstation fans, and through the Vita, they have a very good idea of the tastes of the most rabid of Playstation fans. They know that Summer Lesson will be the closest a women has let you since your mother reluctantly breastfed you. This is why they developed the game and made sure to have it ready for launch

(I didn't include PC players in my analysis, because at less than a million sold, the PC headsets aren't really a factor.)

Can't refute this.

 

[timberger]

I.e. it's not important until we do it.

Ding ding ding.

Talking down a product/feature until they come out with their own version and then act like it's the most important thing ever is textbook MS. When Scorpio comes out it'll be 180 time yet again.

I mean... I don't blame Spencer for basically just doing his job or anything, but he really seems to come off as more and more arrogant in interviews as time goes on.

 

[ResoRai]

VR gaming? I don't think he does, to be honest. In fact he's quite careful on that point. He says that he loves the TECHNOLOGY behind Oculus and the Vive... not the Oculus, not the Vive, and not the games. He compliments the video use of VR too, but again, not the games (or the demos, or the experiments).



He is stating his opinions, not "how it is".

I don't know why, but for some reason when Phil Spencer starts speaking, people lose the scepticism they'd normally apply to what PR people say.

I mean, when he said he loves the technology he says he has a Vive, Oculus Rift, and PSVR literally right after that. He says he loves the work devs are doing in the VR space, but true he doesn't specifically say gaming. I guess his critique of VR gaming comes off as him wanting more, potentially negative to some like you said, but the interview was overly positive of VR I think.

 

[JayWood2010]

For the people who are saying "He will change his mind once xbox gets it"

He said that they will add it when it doesnt feel like tech demos, so of course he will. That was kind of the point. Right now though, he isnt wrong. Its the exact reason i havent bought into VR yet. Even when i do, it will most likely be on PC though, and not console.

 

[Gemeanie]

I've been enjoying PSVR so much I have not played a non-VR game since last month but what did people really expect him to say? "We just announced Windows 10 VR headset but unfortunately it's not for gaming"?

Though in my opinion until Scorpio is launched he's not in the position with much to offer for a while.

 

[Kacho]

With a company as big as Microsoft, I'd expect them to be more of the innovator than the copycat.

And under that "wait and see" logic, it makes no sense that they went the Hololens way of AR and have dismissed VR, a tech that is clearly much more within reach. Yes, I realize Hololens isn't gaming-centric, but VR doesn't have to be either, it's just an aspect/extension of it that has the potential to be very lucrative in the near future.

There are three major gaming VR devices on the market right now. Perhaps MS doesn't feel the need to invest a ton to put their own out there when they can just partner with Occulus and wait and see how this all plays out before fully committing. It's still incredibly early but VR doesn't look like it's going to be the revolution some claimed it would be. At least not for a long while.

 

[Interfectum]

Huh, I think the point that Phil misses here is Steam, Rift and PS4 are establishing themselves as VR leaders through this 'tech demo and experiments' phase.

I absolutely agree that VR isn't mainstream ready yet but when it is people won't be thinking "Microsoft" when looking to buy a good VR solution as they aren't even in the conversation.

 

[Rodelero]

Well the juxt of his comment is that VR being in its infacy, there are still a lot of issues that need to be worked out.

Locomotion and camera manipulation, two of the most important aspects of a video gaming, are still being heavily experimented with, because ideal solutions are still escaping developers.THIS IS A FACT. its not even debatable. Yet you continue to argue that it's just a negative opinion.

It's his strategy that MS will get into console VR when the software matures a bit. Because it currently IS immature. You are choosing to take that as a slight against VR developers... when it objectively isnt.

Perhaps I'll try a different tact - I don't think what I'm saying is really that outrageous:

I am a Briton who wanted to remain in the European Union. I agree with the economists who think that it will be damaging for our economy and our society. Their sentiment on Brexit is completely negative even though I, personally, believe they are "telling it how it is".

 

[Omnistalgic]

Already a few gems on PSVR IMO. I always think it's good to get in early as well, MS will look like "me too" if they wait too long to jump in perhaps.

Overall though, I agree it's the Wild West again in VR, and Sony feels PSVR is their "PS1" all over again, so I'm glad to jump in early and support exciting tech.

 

[Outrun]

I.e. it's not important until we do it.

Did you read the interview...?

10 years sounds about right.

 

[Outrun]

Perhaps I'll try a different tact - I don't think what I'm saying is really that outrageous:

I am a Briton who wanted to remain in the European Union. I agree with the economists who think that it will be damaging for our economy and our society. Their sentiment on Brexit is completely negative even though I, personally, believe they are "telling it how it is".

So he is telling the truth right?

 

[Trup1aya]

Huh, I think the point that Phil misses here is Steam, Rift and PS4 are establishing themselves as VR leaders through this 'tech demo and experiments' phase.

I absolutely agree that VR isn't mainstream ready yet but when it is people won't be thinking "Microsoft" when looking to buy a good VR solution as they aren't even in the conversation.

He doesn't miss this... he mentions that exact point in the interview. that's why MS is working WITH parnters for their VR solution.

They don't have to have their own proprietary VR hardware in order to participte

 

[ArtHands]

Ding ding ding.

Talking down a product/feature until they come out with their own version and then act like it's the most important thing ever is textbook MS. When Scorpio comes out it'll be 180 time yet again.

I mean... I don't blame Spencer for basically just doing his job or anything, but he really seems to come off as more and more arrogant in interviews as time goes on.

you should read the article before you comment.

 

[Septimius]

This is exactly why I think VR games like Project Cars and Elite Dangerous is where the real VR experience lies, since it uses VR in a useful way to immerse you in a full-fledged game.

 

[Rodelero]

So he is telling the truth right?

For the most part yes, which I haven't disputed. I think he's being a little economical with the truth, underplaying the positives of VR as it is right now quite a bit, but no more than that. The rest is a mixture of facts and perfectly reasonable, relatively nuanced, opinion.

 

[Ricky_R]

Phil is in a position where he can be realistic about VR and get away with it. If MS was knee deep into the tech they wouldn't be as realistic, obviously. Actually, they would praise it, like any company who's really invested on it would.

A good measure would be how MS treated Kinect when it released, which was pretty much just as infant.

 

[Interfectum]

He doesn't miss this... he mentions that exact point in the interview. that's why MS is working WITH parnters for their VR solution.

They don't have to have their own proprietary VR hardware in order to participte

Sure but I believe Sony has the advantage here working directly with customers and developers with their gen 1 product. They can establish themselves early as the goto VR solution, improve their SDKs based on feedback and upgrade their VR hardware in a few years.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

Phil is a down to earth guy, and what he is saying is not inaccurate.

Yes I agree with him.

3D gaming at 1994 consoles/pcs felt like ''Demos and Experiments'' also.
Right now I remember that period as the best in the last 30 years.

I feel the same with VR today.

He said that the sun is bright. He doesn't have to.

 

[Trup1aya]

Perhaps I'll try a different tact - I don't think what I'm saying is really that outrageous:

I am a Briton who wanted to remain in the European Union. I agree with the economists who think that it will be damaging for our economy and our society. Their sentiment on Brexit is completely negative even though I, personally, believe they are "telling it how it is".

Where the analogy fails is that VRs infancy isn't a sentiment. It's an undeniable fact. And it's not a negative, it's a neccisary development phase. To suggest that Phil is underplaying VR in this interview is simply wrong. It's clear that he and MS as a whole see the value. But the fact that they don't want to get into console VR until some of the major lingering design hurdles are handled, isn't a slight against ANYONE. It's just their business strategy.

There are serious hurdles that exist, that will probably keep VR from shifting from niche to mass market for a while longer. That isn't a negative opinion, that is a fact.

 

[Trojan]

Phil kind of hit the nail on the head.

 

[T.O.P]

Ding ding ding.

Talking down a product/feature until they come out with their own version and then act like it's the most important thing ever is textbook MS. When Scorpio comes out it'll be 180 time yet again.

I mean... I don't blame Spencer for basically just doing his job or anything, but he really seems to come off as more and more arrogant in interviews as time goes on.

Yeah, there's no point

 

[akileese]

Already a few gems on PSVR IMO. I always think it's good to get in early as well, MS will look like "me too" if they wait too long to jump in perhaps.

Overall though, I agree it's the Wild West again in VR, and Sony feels PSVR is their "PS1" all over again, so I'm glad to jump in early and support exciting tech.

Yeah this is how I feel about PSVR. There's some really cool stuff there but a lot of it feels like glorified tech demos. Batman is awesome, but kinda short. I would love for them to do more episodes of Arkham VR but I doubt it. There are also quite a few stinkers there too (Sports Bar VR and some of the games on VR Worlds).

I can't really blame Phil for sitting back and waiting for VR to sort itself out.

 

[Vol5]

LTTP MS is full MS mode

 

[AcademicSaucer]

He didn't say any of that.

 

[Trup1aya]

Sure but I believe Sony has the advantage here working directly with customers and developers with their gen 1 product. They can establish themselves early as the goto VR solution, improve their SDKs based on feedback and upgrade their VR hardware in a few years.

Sure there is value in that.

I imagine that MS VR solution will be to partner with 1 or more HMD manufactures who also have benefited from working directly with customers.

MS is also working directly with developers, and developing their own VR software and APIs. So I doubt MS will suffer from lack of experience with their approach.

Both approaches have merits.

 

[Seik]

As much as I loved my experience with VR, I agree with him.

While it's a great breakthrough, there's still much to be done.

I tried my friend's PSVR and I can't see myself buying one and playing after 1-2 month (or whenever the WOW factor ends or showed it to all my friends). The resolution is too low to be immersive enough for me as well.

I can see great stuff happening in the future though, it's a great technology and an awesome gaming experience.

 

[SmokedMeat]

For the people who are saying "He will change his mind once xbox gets it"

He said that they will add it when it doesnt feel like tech demos, so of course he will.

If only they did this with Kinect. While I agree with him, I can't help but feel he's only saying this because they don't have a VR unit ready for retail. If they did you can bet your ass they'd be pushing it regardless of what software looked like.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I have not opened my PSVR yet. This thread is making me regretful.

 

[FonkyByNature]

Don't worry Phil, it'll be important next year when your new console will support Oculus. I mean, Xbox has nothing of course he's gonna make it look like it's nothing important.

In the meanwhile, i'm enjoying the hell out of my PSVR, it's fucking amazing and sorry but i would miss on some crazy experiences if i didn't know about VR. I love the thing !

VR doesn't need 100 hours crafting rpg open world bla bla, it's a perfect compliment to those lenghty games imo and for me, it feels more like going to an arcade and experiencing those games that bring me a rush no 2d screen can.

For example, i have a hard time playing a racing game on a flat screen since i played Driveclub VR, the immersion of being in a car combined with the rush of racing is just crazy awesome !

 

[phant0m]

I only own 2 games: Thumper and Rez Infinite. These 2 games legitimizes VR for me right off the bat.

Yup. Rush of Blood is at the same level as well.

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Cerny talks shit about MS and their 'Native' 6TFlop 4K
Spencer talks shit about Sony and VR

Yep seems about right.

 

[Trup1aya]

Yes I agree with him.

3D gaming at 1994 consoles/pcs felt like ''Demos and Experiments'' also.
Right now I remember that period as the best in the last 30 years.

I feel the same with VR today.

He said that the sun is bright. He doesn't have to.

This is why i don't understand why people are offended by the 'experiment' line.

What if Rare didn't experiment with FPS on consoles?

would we have ever gotten dual analog controllers?

Developers literally have to try shit, and put stuff out, just so that they can go back to the drawing board and do it better next time.

 

[Falchion]

Yep seems about right so far.

 

[SillyEskimo]

VR feels unique, inspired, original, fresh, and new. VR is the wild west of the videogame frontier right now.

No one has figured out how to package, exploit, and turn obscene profit from it yet. The huge companies have taken a back seat to indie developers and hobbyists. It is a super exciting time full of the experimentation and risk taking.

I am not surprised at all to see MS taking a wait and see approach to another emerging technology. Lets hope it works out better for them than their approach to mobile phones.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

He's not wrong. Sony are doing a terrible job supporting the headset so far, nothing but tech demos and relying on third party support for what are essentially overpriced mobile games, it's pretty much the Kinect all over again. And just like the Kinect, as impressive as it is technical, I'm still not convinced its place is in the home. VR has a long, long way to go. And we're not going to get there on tech demos, the headset companies need to start taking risks

Im sorry but this is all bullshit. The PSVR launch lineup is great. Sony isn't dropping support we have gotten releases already since launch. Robinson from crytek comes out in a week and RE7 is a few months. The playtime I've gotten out of my PSVR since launch is a ton better then I had at the Xbox one and PS4 launches

 

[Caayn]

Cerny talks shit about MS and their 'Native' 6TFlop 4K

Cerny answers a question about the performance required for 4K. He thinks that 8TF is a good minimum. Which, funnily, enough is roughly 4.5x the base PS4, similar to the Scorpio being 4.5x the XB1.

Spencer talks shit about Sony and VR

Likewise do I not see Spencer talk shit about Sony and VR in this interview. He talks about how VR is currently still in its infancy and why he thinks so.

 

[sublimit]

Well can't say i disagree with him.Although to be honest i was never interested in VR in the first place.

 

[wesleyshark]

Cerny talks shit about MS and their 'Native' 6TFlop 4K
Spencer talks shit about Sony and VR

Yep seems about right.

Neither of these things happened.

 

[Funkybee12]

Exactly my thoughts.
That's why I didn't bother getting VR at launch & won't bother buying it till 2nd-3rd generation when the tech will be in better developlemnt stage & with a good amount of games selection.

 

[Plasma]

Right now I don't think he is wrong the two best things I've played on PSVR are Batman Arkham VR and Playstation VR Worlds neither of which are really full length games. That being said if there are enough of these really well put together experiences being released regularly enough I would be ok with that.

I can't see myself playing something like RE7 in VR all the way through anyway because of the free movement.

 

[Spukc]

Well my samsung gear told me i needed to wait with VR.
It's a cool tech but every game felt like a cool demo/mini game.

But i must say that minecraft with a controller was the best vr experience i have ever had.
Anyway, it has been collecting dust for about 2 months now.

So yeah i'm all into VR but ill wait till gen 3 and ffs no wires..

 

[AbandonedTrolley]

Cerny answers a question about the performance required for 4K. He thinks that 8TF is a good minimum. Which, funnily, enough is roughly 4.5x the base PS4, similar to the Scorpio being 4.5x the XB1.
Likewise do I not see Spencer talk shit about Sony and VR in this interview. He talks about how VR is currently still in its infancy and why he thinks so.

Neither of these things happened.

You don't feel that either of the comments are sly digs at their competitors solutions right now?

 

[watdaeff4]

You don't feel that either of the comments are sly digs at their competitors solutions right now?

If they are their honest opinions/takes in the situations.....no, not at all.

 

[wesleyshark]

You don't feel that either of the comments are sly digs at their competitors solutions right now?

I don't feel that at all.

 

[Journey]

He'll think it's there in the Fall of 2017.

I.e. it's not important until we do it.

sounds like something someone being left behind would say.

It's not like he's not supporting it or saying it has no future, but he's right about the state of VR right now.

 

[ducksauce]

I own a Vive and he's not wrong.