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Physician-Age: Calling all students and doctors
- Thread starter Adam Blade
- Start date
Four_Chamber
Member
Even though I'm going into IM, I really enjoyed my surgery rotation.
Yeah, some surgeons don't treat you with kid gloves. Well, tough- I grew up a lot more in my Surgery rotation than I did in a lot of rotations. I was pretty sensitive to (even constructive) criticism throughout med school but after doing Surgery that weakness disappeared. The real world doesn't baby you and I think every medical student needs to go through that process.
Plus, getting to first assist (for about 15 minutes) during a CABG was badass.
Yeah, some surgeons don't treat you with kid gloves. Well, tough- I grew up a lot more in my Surgery rotation than I did in a lot of rotations. I was pretty sensitive to (even constructive) criticism throughout med school but after doing Surgery that weakness disappeared. The real world doesn't baby you and I think every medical student needs to go through that process.
Plus, getting to first assist (for about 15 minutes) during a CABG was badass.
ReasonableSnob
Neo Member
PGY-IV in pathology (only a few months of residency left to go). It's really hard to do well, but I love the field. One year of fellowship in July and then a real job.
Aruarian Reflection
Chauffeur de la gdlk
Angry_Gorilla said:
The student criticism isn't what I disliked about surgery. It was the awful working environment where unhappy attendings, residents, scrubs techs, and anesthesiologists had to work together in close quarters for long periods. They seemed to barely tolerate each other (and that's if it's a good day!). Very uncomfortable atmosphere. Most of the surgeons also seemed to hate each other but were passive aggressive about it. They would use M&M conference as a venue to vent, ripping each other's residents to shreds. We as medical students would just sit in the back and watch the slaughter.
Of course, your experience will vary based on who you work with, your hospital, etc. I actually had a good time with minimally invasive surgeries and was praised by multiple people for my manual dexterity and spatial orientation. I can't count the number of times I was asked, "You must play a lot of video games?" I got to be first assist on a laparoscopic case!
Some good advice I received was not to be a surgeon if you had the slightest doubt. The enjoyment I had with laparoscopy was dramatically outweighed by all the other negative experiences. You could say that not everyplace is that bad, and you'd be right, but I've heard enough stories to know that it's not uncommon. I would hate to have a chance of working in an environment like that for the rest of my career.
bggrthnjsus
Member
wasn't operating the laparoscope up to his specifications. bear in mind i had never done that before in my life, and i was also retracting with my other hand. the entire event was even funnier because he would say "up" meaning "zoom in", but also "up", meaning "point up", and then get pissed when i mixed them up. that surgeon was notorious for fighting in the OR...his wife was also a surgeon, and in one surgery they got in a fight and she just stormed out of the OR leaving just him and a student :loleggandI said:
and for the record, it wasn't so much that i disliked surgery, it was more that i disliked most of the surgeons. partly for their concepts of what constructive criticism was, but really it was more for their overall attitudes towards everyone around them. they'd talk shit about every other specialty without mercy - that obgyns are just urology emergencies waiting to happen, that the internal medicine people can't manage patients for shit, that psychiatrists aren't real doctors. fine, sometimes criticism is warranted, but they did it far more than any of the other specialties i rotated through.
You guys enjoy your crazy working hours. Dentistry ftw. Slightly less pay but you get so much free time to do other stuff.
Don't know what I want to specialise in right now but I'm leaning towards prosthodontics with oral surgery or just regular general dentistry. Orthodontics is nice but it seems like too many are specialising in that now a days (or trying to at least). Might consider a periodontology/oral surgery programme but I don't like the perio crap so bleh.
Uni was pretty easy, you just need to have good manual skills so if you have some Art/Music hobbies that would help a lot.
P.S. Regarding surgeons, most of the ones I've dealt with in school/hospitals/friends are quite nice and seem to have a slightly dark sense of humour. There are a couple of ass holes I've encountered in the Oral Surgery department but they were youngish so that's expected I guess.
Don't know what I want to specialise in right now but I'm leaning towards prosthodontics with oral surgery or just regular general dentistry. Orthodontics is nice but it seems like too many are specialising in that now a days (or trying to at least). Might consider a periodontology/oral surgery programme but I don't like the perio crap so bleh.
Uni was pretty easy, you just need to have good manual skills so if you have some Art/Music hobbies that would help a lot.
P.S. Regarding surgeons, most of the ones I've dealt with in school/hospitals/friends are quite nice and seem to have a slightly dark sense of humour. There are a couple of ass holes I've encountered in the Oral Surgery department but they were youngish so that's expected I guess.
bggrthnjsus
Member
funny story with that - the one female gen surg attending at our hospital seemed kind of sad and lonely because she was the youngest attending, the only one without a family, and the only woman. so she'd always be asking the residents and students if they wanted to hang out after clinic on fridays (since there was never anything scheduled)...so one day she asks us if we want to get something to eat at this bar nearby.SnowWolf said:
the intern and all of the students go 'uh, i gotta write some notes'
the chief resident goes 'i have to ...uh...buy a...car.'
and the other resident goes 'i uh...yeah i just don't want to go'
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Specialist-nurses-paid-higher-hmoney-2327465018.html?x=0
seemed relevant to post here instead of a new thread
seemed relevant to post here instead of a new thread
In my program there is no guarantee--the PhD is done when its done. The administrators just urge you to finish on time by threatening to cut your funding. I don't know of anyone that has finished the PhD portion in 2 years, and I consider those that finish the PhD within 4 years pretty fast. I'll be here for about a total of 8 years, but there are a good number of people here that take >10 years total depending on their research.j_k_redtail said:
IAmtheFMan
Member
I've really got nothing against surgery in general. Hell, some of the nicer co-residents that I've met on call, or had to consult have been from CT surg, and I'm pretty good friends with a few of the Neurosurg guys (being Neuro, that can be a weird relationship to have.) You run into egos, and assholes in any specialty. Gimme any specialty, and I can list at least a couple assholes that I know in there, from Psych, Rehab, and Medicine to Vascular and Ortho.
The way I approach it, is that we're all in this shit together as residents. We just gotta survive any way possible.
The way I approach it, is that we're all in this shit together as residents. We just gotta survive any way possible.
j_k_redtail
Member
That's what I suspected. It seems like it depends a lot on the project -- imaging/informatics are really fast, anything requiring animal studies is slow.liposome said:
I know of a few horror stories where the PI died/moved away/vanished, and the student had to start over. If I get any interviews, I'll be sure to ask them about average time to completion.
To be honest, it's made me realize how little I actually know about the PhD portion of the program. How do you they when you're finished? A certain number of credits + a certain number of solid publications?
Rad Agast said:
Yeah, and owning your own practice/being your own boss is priceless. The downside is that every major/semi-meajor/medium city in the entire USA is saturated with dentists. So unless you love crazy competition, it's out in the boonies for ya :lol
But yeah, the work/life balance is one of the major reasons I chose dentistry. I read somewhere once that a surgeon could only be 2 of these 3 things: A good surgeon, spouse or parent.
bggrthnjsus said:
:lol keep those stories coming dude. This is amazing.bggrthnjsus said:
Falch said:I'm a 6th year (non-US, straight into med school after highschool) med student and should be an MD in a couple of months.
Compared to the horrorstories of the US system I'm not complaining at all. We have 3 years of theory followed by 2 years of clinical rotations (internal, surgery, gp, dermatology, ENT, dermatology, ophthamology, obgyn, neurology, pediatrics, social medicine, psychiatry and a rotation of choice) and a final year in which you do two 16 week rotations at a dept. of your own choice, one of which has to be clinical (neuropsychiatry for me) and one research (radiology for me). I actually did my psy rotation in the US (SUNY Upstate Medial University) and I loved it, but I don't think it's a fair representation of how clinical rotations in the US usually are.
Also, I'm not stuck with any debt at all, woohoo.I want to become a neurologist, btw. Neuropsychiatric and movement disorders in particular really interest me.
You went to med school right after high school, are getting your MD in a few months, and will have no debt?
WHERE DO YOU LIVE? TAKE ME THERE
Considering I eventually want a family and a life and people to spend time with, I'm not sure if I'll enter surgery.
Pepé Silvia
Member
I'm starting Med School in August. Don't ask me what I want to go into because I get asked that question 12 times a day. I don't know yet. I have time to decide. LAY OFF people.
Although, today I was advised by a couple ER docs to go into facial maxillary surgery, or basically any sort of oral surgeon. With that you can have your own practice and you won't have to be a hospital's bitch. I really do want to do something surgical too, so it's an option i guess.
And for those asking for what to do to improve chances of acceptance, GET EXPERIENCE. The first year I applied I had good GPA (3.75), good MCAT (32), and got waitlisted. This year, the only difference in my application was that I had been working in a hospital for a few months, and I got accepted right away. I honestly spent 85% of my interview talking about my job. It really made a huge difference.
For whoever was wondering about MCAT scores, I got a 13 in biological sciences, 10 in physical sciences, and a 9 in verbal reasoning. Fuck verbal reasoning.
I was working in ER Christmas day and we had to call in a radiology tech for a patient who had been in three days in a row for some bullshit back pain. I never saw a man so angry, especially after the patient starts trying to sit up right in the middle of the MRI for no reason and we had to completely start over. That's one thing about working ER. When someone genuinely needs medical attention, a person is more than happy to do their job. But when you see the same patient three times a week because they want narcs/attention/a warm bed, you can't help but become a little cynical.
Although, today I was advised by a couple ER docs to go into facial maxillary surgery, or basically any sort of oral surgeon. With that you can have your own practice and you won't have to be a hospital's bitch. I really do want to do something surgical too, so it's an option i guess.
And for those asking for what to do to improve chances of acceptance, GET EXPERIENCE. The first year I applied I had good GPA (3.75), good MCAT (32), and got waitlisted. This year, the only difference in my application was that I had been working in a hospital for a few months, and I got accepted right away. I honestly spent 85% of my interview talking about my job. It really made a huge difference.
For whoever was wondering about MCAT scores, I got a 13 in biological sciences, 10 in physical sciences, and a 9 in verbal reasoning. Fuck verbal reasoning.
HylianTom said:
I was working in ER Christmas day and we had to call in a radiology tech for a patient who had been in three days in a row for some bullshit back pain. I never saw a man so angry, especially after the patient starts trying to sit up right in the middle of the MRI for no reason and we had to completely start over. That's one thing about working ER. When someone genuinely needs medical attention, a person is more than happy to do their job. But when you see the same patient three times a week because they want narcs/attention/a warm bed, you can't help but become a little cynical.
Yeah, asking average time of completion is definitely something to ask. You should also ask the students directly if they're actually happy in the lab. Anyway, your mileage may vary, there may be some programs out there that urge the PI to give the student their PhD within 2 or 3 years. But, no self-respecting PI I know would do that. You're correct about the credits and publications, but again, it varies and graduating depends largely on the PI. Some PIs hang on to their students until the student is "ready". This is supposed to happen when the student has a good "story" for a thesis and can design and analyze experiments on their own. But again, there are stellar students still stuck in lab, while mediocre students sometimes slip through the cracks. Hope that helps, and good luck dude. Give me a PM when you decide what you're gonna be doing.j_k_redtail said:
Dogenzaka said:
The Netherlands. The education system is set up completely different from high school up, so it's hard to compare. There's a lot of pre-reqs for getting into med school straight after high school though. There's a set tuition fee of about 1500 euro a year independent of what university you go to and what study you choice, and my parents pay for that.
I never once considered surgery or anything related because I don't have the manual skills and don't like the insane amount of hours (lot better in Europe compared to the US though, but still a lot more than most other specialties). I also don't like the working environment. The thing I really like is seeing out-patients.
bggrthnjsus said:
That's actually kinda sad
I did bio-engineering at school so got to work with a couple of radiologist during my masters project that I did in elastography (bouncing boobs with ultrasound).
During my whole masters, I really wondered if I was gonna go to med school afterwards. What I did on the medical side was utterly interesting and enjoyable so I did think long and hard about it.
But in the end I didn't. I would probably would have been able to join directly in 3 year in France (as the system is 8+ years right after high school and the first 2 years are mostly basic physics and physiology, that kinda thing) but even though, couldn't see myself going back to working my ass off and being not or underpaid for 5 more years.
My friend tho did go to med school. She started from the ground up and is now rocking her 2 year, but she was hard working and had it pretty easy memorizing things.
I have a question though, did any of you were scared by blood and if so, how did you get over it? That was one of the reasons I didn't go as well
Patrick Bateman
Member
I'm still trying to get to university, but until now no luck.
I worked for over 2 years in a operating suite concentrating mostly on orthopedics and visceral surgery.
And that's pretty much the profession I would want to get later. It has to be something surgical, but I'm a bit undecided whether gynecology or even oral and maxillofacial surgery would be nice.
The latter would be a bit much thou, because I probably will start with university at the age of ca. 25. Meaning I would be 32 when I'm done with medicine and then I had to do another 3-4 years of dental medicine. After this it would be about 6-7 years of specialisation.
I would finnish at around 43, if everything goes well. :lol
I worked for over 2 years in a operating suite concentrating mostly on orthopedics and visceral surgery.
And that's pretty much the profession I would want to get later. It has to be something surgical, but I'm a bit undecided whether gynecology or even oral and maxillofacial surgery would be nice.
The latter would be a bit much thou, because I probably will start with university at the age of ca. 25. Meaning I would be 32 when I'm done with medicine and then I had to do another 3-4 years of dental medicine. After this it would be about 6-7 years of specialisation.
I would finnish at around 43, if everything goes well. :lol
Dogenzaka said:
If you're willing to learn a second language, some EU countries provide free tuition as long as you study in their native language.
Pepé Silvia said:
I'm not sure how the US system works but in Europe, it's a long road to reach maxfacs. Med school, dentistry school, general surgery, oral surgery, then maxfacs. I might have missed a step too but they're seriously thinking about changing it so that it would take shorter time period to reach the speciality.
Alcoori said:I have a question though, did any of you were scared by blood and if so, how did you get over it? That was one of the reasons I didn't go as well
Scared of blood? nope, didn't experience that (I remember one student out of 40 or so feeling sick after the first dissection session but that's about it). Most of us felt really hungry after classes and ate a lot. The only time I remember feeling uneasy was a forensics case involving a 10 years old sexual assault/asphyxiation victim. I still remember her face to this day. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that shit any more.
The Stealth Fox
Junior Member
Finishing up MS1 here at the University of South Florida.
Only thing I've enjoyed is the Behavioral Medicine course so far. Everything else is boring bookwork.
Not sure what I wanna do in terms of specialty, but maybe psychiatry (maybe addiction psychiatry).
Only thing I've enjoyed is the Behavioral Medicine course so far. Everything else is boring bookwork.
Not sure what I wanna do in terms of specialty, but maybe psychiatry (maybe addiction psychiatry).
Dogenzaka said:That's a good field. My godmother's a facial maxillary surgeon. She makes bank and has time for her family
OMS is no joke, though. I hope you were in the very top of your class and your resume is outstanding. Very competitive specialty. And it's another 4 years you'll have to do, too.
LoganKnight4949
Member
Working as a Radiologic Technologist. (X-Ray Dude). Got my Associates in Applied Science, and now going to Northern Arizona University for the next two years to get my Bachelors in Applied Science in Radiography.
Been working at a Hospital in one capacity or another since I was 17,(2001). I want to apply to University of Arizona's Med School program after I get my Bachelors. If I get a good MCAT score, great recommendations(I've networked with MANY doctors), keep my GPA at 3.8, and have a combined 6 years as an X-Ray tech by the time I apply to med school, will I have a good chance?
Thanks.
Been working at a Hospital in one capacity or another since I was 17,(2001). I want to apply to University of Arizona's Med School program after I get my Bachelors. If I get a good MCAT score, great recommendations(I've networked with MANY doctors), keep my GPA at 3.8, and have a combined 6 years as an X-Ray tech by the time I apply to med school, will I have a good chance?
Thanks.
IAmtheFMan
Member
To all M4's:
Good luck tomorrow! Go have fun on the pre-match/St. Pat's day combo.
And ENJOY the rest of your 4th year. Seriously.
Good luck tomorrow! Go have fun on the pre-match/St. Pat's day combo.
And ENJOY the rest of your 4th year. Seriously.
Four_Chamber
Member
Yeah, I'm pretty excited
Tomorrow is gonna be a crazy day. The whole range of emotion will be on display
Tomorrow is gonna be a crazy day. The whole range of emotion will be on display
Thagomizer
Member
First year pre-med here.
Just wondering what you guys think of ophthalmology/optometry. Having worked in an private opth/opt clinic, all the doctors have really good hours and can spend time with their families after Residency. The only think I don't really like about it (Optometry especially) is that you need some reaaaaally advanced physics beyond even the standard MCAT.
Just wondering what you guys think of ophthalmology/optometry. Having worked in an private opth/opt clinic, all the doctors have really good hours and can spend time with their families after Residency. The only think I don't really like about it (Optometry especially) is that you need some reaaaaally advanced physics beyond even the standard MCAT.
Adam Blade
WWKC
Bump. Congrats to all those who matched today and good luck to those who have to scramble. I know I'm going to be a nervous wreck around this time next year.
Four_Chamber
Member
I got my first choice
Gonna have to move across half the country, but I'm frickin stoked. Other than moving, this is going to be fantastic
Gonna have to move across half the country, but I'm frickin stoked. Other than moving, this is going to be fantastic
j_k_redtail
Member
Bump, because I'm filling out AMCAS these days and wondering if anyone is here with me.
Patrick Bateman
Member
Adam Blade
WWKC
Patrick Bateman said:
One of the trauma attendings showed this vid the other day. :lol
Tornado Condor
Member
Didn't see this thread.
Current Status: Pre-medical student.
Career Goal: Plastis Surgeon. I am planning to join the ARMY under the 4-year HPSP scholarship (medical school is paid at the expense of serving for 4 years as a doctor). Yeah, basically my plans are to be a plastic surgeon in the ARMY. So no boob jobs or anything like that :lol
Current Status: Pre-medical student.
Career Goal: Plastis Surgeon. I am planning to join the ARMY under the 4-year HPSP scholarship (medical school is paid at the expense of serving for 4 years as a doctor). Yeah, basically my plans are to be a plastic surgeon in the ARMY. So no boob jobs or anything like that :lol
Ben Pierce
Member
I'm a relatively new pre-med student (just beginning to start my "major work" science courses in college--A&P, chemistry, etc...), and I would like some advice from Doctor Gaf. I'm not very solid as to what kind of doctor I want to be, honestly. I've always been interested in surgery, but I want to be able to have a life outside of my career. Based on what I've heard, how true those things are, I don't know, but it would be hard to do as a hospital surgeon. I cherish the times I have outside of work, but I am not lazy.
I'm laid back by nature and like to go at my own pace. I'm calm under pressure, but would prefer to not be rushed (as I'm sure most would not like to be rushed).
I also want my time that I put into my work to show in how much I make. I don't know the specifics for all Doctors, but i know it varies. The helping people thing is nice, too
There are so many fields, and I just would like to know some of your opinions about what would you think would be good for me or what fields would suit my personality. I know I haven't listed a lot about myself, but I don't have a lot of time. I'll try to say some more things or answer questions you have (I'm sure what I've given you isn't enough), but I need to go to bed to get ready for lab tomorrow. What does Doctor Gaf think?
I'm laid back by nature and like to go at my own pace. I'm calm under pressure, but would prefer to not be rushed (as I'm sure most would not like to be rushed).
I also want my time that I put into my work to show in how much I make. I don't know the specifics for all Doctors, but i know it varies. The helping people thing is nice, too
There are so many fields, and I just would like to know some of your opinions about what would you think would be good for me or what fields would suit my personality. I know I haven't listed a lot about myself, but I don't have a lot of time. I'll try to say some more things or answer questions you have (I'm sure what I've given you isn't enough), but I need to go to bed to get ready for lab tomorrow. What does Doctor Gaf think?
Adam Blade
WWKC
Ben Pierce said:
Getting into medical school should be your priority now, since you'll have a lot of time in medical school to decide what field into which you'll eventually go. A lot of classmates of mine didn't decide on a specialty until 4th year.
RN here. Work in general pediatrics. The attending MD's and staff on pediatrics and its specialties all seem to be nice and easy to work with. I think the biggest culture shock most students and residents have is going from a teaching hospital environment where people seem to work together to a private hospital setting where the MD's are source of the hospital's income and get the pressure to perform. Some of the teaching hospitals are going semi-private so they are bringing more pressure on the attendings to perform financially. But it still is a culture shock when a new MD goes from having other residents and attending MD's to support them to being in charge.
The bump in pay is nice.
The best laid back lifestyle is that of allergists. Usually 9 am-6 pm, a rare hospital consult now and then. Allergy shots provide a steady income source.
The most pressurized lifestyle I have seen are the cardiologists. They are doing cardiac caths 24/7 now. Long office hours.Always hospital rounds and consults. A lot of competition these days. Hospitals love the revenue stream they provide. Telemetry and caths are big money makers for the hospitals. So you get the long hours of surgery and the pay of medicine.
The above is relevant for the USA.
The bump in pay is nice.
The best laid back lifestyle is that of allergists. Usually 9 am-6 pm, a rare hospital consult now and then. Allergy shots provide a steady income source.
The most pressurized lifestyle I have seen are the cardiologists. They are doing cardiac caths 24/7 now. Long office hours.Always hospital rounds and consults. A lot of competition these days. Hospitals love the revenue stream they provide. Telemetry and caths are big money makers for the hospitals. So you get the long hours of surgery and the pay of medicine.
The above is relevant for the USA.
bggrthnjsus
Member
that'd be a good job for all the reconstructive worksalva said:
learn more about the stipulations of the military scholarships though, when i went into school and inquired about it, it was more like 10 years of total service. remember they're going to be investing $200k+ into you so they're going to want to get their money's worth...so 4 years might just be the part of the deal they tell you about up front
also what are all the MS4s applying to? i'm applying in pathology lol
this interview process is gonna be expensive as fuck
Im saving up to do this now, take the gamsat in around a year (Exam to get into medical school where you dont have a med background, i did Law at uni) and ive got to say that one of my biggest fears is just not being smart enough for med school . Through my school life ive never actually applied myself before. I remember people telling me Law school was hugely difficult and only for the brightest but i found that so long as you stayed with the work it wasnt that challenging at all for the most part, but med school seems so much more intense and intellectually demanding, im really concerned that i just couldnt cope with it. Did anyone else go through this sort of fallacy? And how did you sort of convince yourself you could handle it?
. Through my school life ive never actually applied myself before. I remember people telling me Law school was hugely difficult and only for the brightest but i found that so long as you stayed with the work it wasnt that challenging at all for the most part, but med school seems so much more intense and intellectually demanding, im really concerned that i just couldnt cope with it. Did anyone else go through this sort of fallacy? And how did you sort of convince yourself you could handle it?Mr Cola said:Im saving up to do this now, take the gamsat in around a year (Exam to get into medical school where you dont have a med background, i did Law at uni) and ive got to say that one of my biggest fears is just not being smart enough for med school
med school really isn't that bad. it's just a time sink. you need some sort of baseline intelligence to be able to absorb that amount of work. i can get by studying maybe 3-4 hours per day, and i don't go to class. it's pretty easy to pass, hard to do well. it really scales with the amount of hours you put in.
nothing in medical school is very hard, it's more just the sheer volume of work. if you can focus for the hours you put in, you'll be A OK.
You are doing the GAMSAT? What school are you applying for?Mr Cola said:Im saving up to do this now, take the gamsat in around a year (Exam to get into medical school where you dont have a med background, i did Law at uni) and ive got to say that one of my biggest fears is just not being smart enough for med school
I'm in USyd Med1 so I've gone through the entire GAMSAT/MMI process. School isn't that hard to pass, in fact they tailor it to make it easy to pass. But it'll be hard to excel at. You will be very conscious of being a student and I've found that most people are quite lax at our lack of knowledge. You are there to learn after all, and they're quite empathetic to that.
I found the level of detail you have in post-grad is actually less than my previous degree in undergrad (Optometry). Very basic sciences which don't make you run into the nitty gritty of say, pharmacology of each drug or immunology of each disease. Cuts all the excess out.
PGY3 currently. It's been pretty fun, as I'm starting to do senior call. I'm not that stressed about shit hitting the fan anymore, and I get to operate solo with my attendings. So much win! Last time I double scrubbed as a junior was over 2 months ago. I'm assigned to a new attending who is a HUGE name and it's pretty scary, but the guy is pretty cool and down to earth. Got to start doing some research with him. Kind of crazy how much stuff I don't know yet, despite reading pretty much everyday. Well, I could always cut on GAF, haha.