I'm not saying that it's right, but this time the devs put out the cracked version themselves. Some people might see that as "oh hey, since the devs themselves are giving us a free alternative, why not go for it".
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pirates react to their games being pirated in Game Dev Tycoon
- Thread starter usea
- Start date
No it doesn't make it legal. They didn't put up two versions on their website and say "We're releaseing a free and a paid version, choose whichever you like!". They uploaded a torrent of their game, under an unrelated username, to analyse the impacts of piracy. That's completely different.
Other companies probably do the same, they just don't talk about it.
Question - if this blog post hadn't appeared, would you have known that the developers had uploaded a "free" version that you say is legal? No, because without that knowledge it looks like any other download for any other game. Without that knowledge it would be considered piracy - just because you now know it was the devs who uploaded it under a different username, and not another person, does not make it legal.
Where did they say they wanted people to pirate the game? It was used as part analysis of how piracy affects them, and part clever marketing due to the changed code.
Yes but, as above, it was uploaded with an unrelated username, so if the blog post hadn't appeared, hardly anyone would know it was the devs who'd distributed it.
You've misunderstood that article. It only applies to software that is specifically licensed. The part you quoted after the bolded even clarifies that.
There hasn't been some sweeping change to copyright law to make all copies of computer software require licenses.
Virtually none of the games I own have any license agreement attached to them, and thus I own them in the same sense I own my books. They're controlled by standard copyright law.
Mithos
Member
The law makes it legal because I now they did place it there, at least here, maybe not in your country.
Well not "only" because I know they placed it there, but also because THEY placed it there.
Hmmm? TOS you accept on installation doesn't count?
Virtually no game I own has a TOS on installation.
If they violate your rights, nope. Rights are not up for negotiation.
Megalosaro
Banned
What. Every single thing I've ever installed every has a ToS.
If you're talking about console games, then check the manual. The terms of service are in there.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Wow, that is really funny :lol
This is extremely unlikely, you probably just don't know what you are talking about. I'm sure they aren't even seeding it anymore.
Mithos
Member
Neah, the law is pretty clear on this.
1. If I download a copy of a movie/tv-series, a game or a music file, that has been put online without the authorization of the rightful owner, I'm breaking the law.
2. If I download a copy of a movie/tv-series, a game or a music file, that has been put online WITH the authorization of the rightful owner, I'm NOT breaking the law, whether the file is placed online by the rightful owner him/her-self or if they gave given their authorization to a third party to put it online.
Guess where this so called *cracked* version of Game Dev Tycoon fits in, 1 or 2?
You didn't answer my question.
Mithos
Member
Until the second they revealed that they were indeed behind that copy, you would believed that you were a pirate, but legally you would not have been one a single second depending on your location,I can't speak for the law in every country.
KojiKnight
Member
I've yet to see a PC game that doesn't have a ToS on installation. You probably just click "next" too fast
As for console games, the ToS is in the manual and most force you to agree to the ToS when you go online for the first time (that thing you don't read, but sometimes have to scroll to the bottom to get past)
Also, Sony and Microsoft make you sign their ToS when you create online accounts.
Single-player offline games don't have terms of service because there's no service.
I guess ones with online components have something, but the last console game I bought with online stuff was PSO for Dreamcast. (The most modern consoles I own are PSP and 3DS, so I have no idea if PS3 and 360 games are coming with EULAs these days or something.)
Also a TOS and a EULA are two different things.
A EULA requires the user to agree to it in some fashion, usually with a button during installation. You can't stick a EULA in the manual and claim the user agreed to it just because it's there, and as far as I know no game maker has ever tried.
I checked the manuals in the two most recent PSP games I bought (Kokoro Connect and Haganai Portable), but there's nothing like a EULA or TOS in them.
I do own a handful of American PC games with EULAs. (Mostly Blizzard.)
But if any of my Japanese PC games have EULAs, it's so rare I've forgotten about them.
Just to test I grabbed Ys Origin off the shelf and installed it now.
Here's the whole sequence; there's no EULA:
http://i5.minus.com/iL4A1mbkG4103.jpg 2006...I forgot how old this is. I really need to get around to playing it...
http://i6.minus.com/ibjuLxy5HsLiXG.jpg "Thank you for buying Ys Origin. This install requires 1.8GB."
http://i7.minus.com/iTBT5fZrfa93L.jpg "This installer is running with admin rights. Do you want to install for all users or just this user?"
http://i5.minus.com/iY6h6vea6dgBS.jpg Choose installation folder
http://i7.minus.com/idkOzlpKCK31s.jpg "Press 決定 to start the installation."
http://i3.minus.com/ibyaIPRpjJqqJ6.jpg
http://i1.minus.com/ibbATEDOy9dxeO.jpg "Installation complete."
http://i3.minus.com/ibyuP2iBBlxxgR.jpg
OK installer's done, let's start the game.
http://i6.minus.com/ibjv7Z0WXaOrpw.jpg
http://i1.minus.com/isfXGj80e35BQ.jpg
http://i3.minus.com/iDuOLcDUYHw73.jpg
No EULA/TOS/anything anywhere.
You are likely misreading or misunderstanding the law. It makes no sense for the download to be authorized (this just means licensed unless it's public domain fyi) if you don't even get the file from the original seed and the copyright holder did not intend to authorize anything. It's probably not a settled area of the law, but I'm quite confident in that there is no authorization. Can you link to the relevant statute, it doesn't matter if it's in Swedish
Mithos
Member
When these guy agree with me I'm pretty sure I'm not misunderstanding it. But this is not a link to the relevant statute you asked for, just the guys who work FOR the industry to halt/stop illegal use of everything they hold dear.
http://www.antipiratbyran.se/index.htm?id=faq
I think your just splitting words (if thats the correct term, dunno) here, when I mean authorized, I just mean that its not an illegal download. Like if I went to some site NOW and downloaded Dead Space 3 it would be an illegal download, not "authorized" by EA or Viseral Games.
BUT if tomorrow EA and Viseral Games decide to put up Dead Space 3 for download, oh lets say here on Neogaf and it is really them doing it, that download WOULD be an "authorized" download and hence not illegal to download.
I don't understand everything, but that seems to leave open what authorization actually means and seems to say that you actually have to believe that the download was authorized, and considering they are publicly calling these people pirates, I don't see how you could in good faith believe that.
kurtrussell
Banned
I watched a bit of TotalBiscuit's stream of the game yesterday. It looks to be a shameless ripoff of Game Dev Story, with worse graphics. Most of the differences I saw were just in the UI, but it also looked like you could research new genres instead of unlocking them like in GDS. I also saw that you could research things like joystick or gamepad control.
Can anyone articulate what else is different in the game? I'm currently stunned that someone would have the gall to charge $8 for a hacky remake of someone else's work. No respect for this developer, even with the twist on McPixel's approach of posting on TPB.
EDIT: maybe stunned is the wrong word. I can believe it, but I'm grossed out.
Can anyone articulate what else is different in the game? I'm currently stunned that someone would have the gall to charge $8 for a hacky remake of someone else's work. No respect for this developer, even with the twist on McPixel's approach of posting on TPB.
EDIT: maybe stunned is the wrong word. I can believe it, but I'm grossed out.
Jake Tower
Banned
Still false. I defy a corporation to win a jury case on this matter.
kind of.
Its basically the same but with some deeper thing like choosing the percentage of time dedicated to graphics or dialogs.
You also have to invest quite some time into discovering new thing like mouse, joystick, open world, savegames and then you need to develop a game engine that contains those things in order to use on your games.
_You also can have publiser deals in which you need to get above a score or else you have to pay some money. They pay some money upfront and you get a cut of every sold game.
It's kind of crappy to be honest. Because the things that were on game dev story work really well, but the new additions....well, let's say they didn't think them as much. Its like they pasted it on top of game dev story and call it a day.
So....not really recomended unless you love this kind of games, which I do.
Sounds like padding, thanks for the explanation.
After playing it more, I wouldn't say it's nearly identical to GDS though the early start of it is very similar. Making a custom game engine with new technology every so often is rather crucial and I've failed quite a bit after getting to the new office so I'd at least say it's harder than GDS.
On the surface, it's easy to say it's a 'blatant ripoff' of GDS but imo, as you keep playing, it feels both different yet similar.
I'd say it's easily inspired by GDS (they (the devs) have said this themselves) but it feels different and in some ways, it feels like an improvement on this addictive formula. (I was up until 8am this morning playing it before going to sleep... woops)
Said this earlier but I wish someone would make a proper full blown sim like RCT or The Movies for Game development.
So, to recap: EULAs are binding, they can control just about everything you might dream up, and only Congress can change the situation.
Your disagreement does not change the fact that federal law says differently.
Specifically ""We hold today that a software user is a licensee rather than an owner of a copy where the copyright owner (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user’s ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions.""
IchigoSharingan
Member
Don't let logic get in the way of an agenda. And given the "pirates are redcoats, screw all of them' logic in this thread, your post will be acknowledged by very few.
milkham
Member
I believe he was referring to the rampant game cloning there is in the apple app store not the type of game it is when he says "ios style" as in "ios style game cloning"
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Have you ever downloaded an mp3 without paying for it?
Off-Kilter
Banned
Funny stuff.
Also thanks for bringing this game to my attention. It looks pretty fun.
Also thanks for bringing this game to my attention. It looks pretty fun.
faceless007
Member
That doesn't apply everywhere, just the Ninth Circuit.
Anyway, the court is wrong. Not for the first time.
PorygonVandal
Member
You never own the software you buy.
You are not the owner simply because you don't decide what changes are made, when the updates are available, how the interface should be, etc. you just receive all this from the real owner that let's you use it's software.
You are not the owner simply because you don't decide what changes are made, when the updates are available, how the interface should be, etc. you just receive all this from the real owner that let's you use it's software.
NoirVisage
Banned
I'm incredibly suspicious of that "help" post -__-
Did they ever respond to being "duped"?
Did they ever respond to being "duped"?
I am going to choose to play the demo.
Demos are usually my first point of call. If they are not available, or do not give enough time/variation on the game to make up my mind if I like it or not, then I will try to rent it. I mean there's nothing worse than getting the tutorial level as the demo and wading through the hand-holding etc. If a rental isn't available I will pirate it as my third step, before deciding if it's worth the money or not.
Other times I pirate it is because of a lack of funds, and if the game is enjoyable I later purchase it. Or it is an accessibility thing (i.e. I just want to watch a film I have sat over there on my bookcase, not sit through copy-write screens and un-skippable trailers/adverts for 5-10 minutes on the DVD.)
Demos are usually my first point of call. If they are not available, or do not give enough time/variation on the game to make up my mind if I like it or not, then I will try to rent it. I mean there's nothing worse than getting the tutorial level as the demo and wading through the hand-holding etc. If a rental isn't available I will pirate it as my third step, before deciding if it's worth the money or not.
Other times I pirate it is because of a lack of funds, and if the game is enjoyable I later purchase it. Or it is an accessibility thing (i.e. I just want to watch a film I have sat over there on my bookcase, not sit through copy-write screens and un-skippable trailers/adverts for 5-10 minutes on the DVD.)
Dave Meltzer
Banned
lol
exmachina64
Banned
False. The game itself is considered a service.
They do.
Then you're not aware of the practices of EA, UbiSoft, Activision, Microsoft, etc. There is no functional difference between an EULA or a TOS and it is enforceable in court. The burden is on the consumer to read the EULA/TOS in a manual or on a screen during installation.
You should have seen one in World of Warcraft or StarCraft 2 (or whatever Blizzard games you play).
A niche Japanese game isn't indicative of what we're discussing in this thread.
If you read the article, you missed an important sentence:
ArsTechnica said:
Courts in the U.S. are required to base decisions on judicial precedent. Actions taken by Congress can overrule the decisions of courts. Courts can stray from judicial precedent in some instances (which probably won't apply here since we're discussing copyright law). At most, you'd get a judge discussing various changes they would like to see in the law.
In a future case, this decision can be used as judicial precedent. If a case goes all the way to the Supreme Court, it would be surprising if their decision deviated from what we saw in this case.
Unless Congress revises copyright law/expands what constitutes fair use, nothing is going to change.
KittenMaster
Member
I haven't played the game, but I just want to say that probably isn't a silly thing at all, you'd want to want to have a good knowledge and inspiration from a genre you're trying to create for.
exmachina64
Banned
The tutorial's automatically disabled after you make it through each section. As the complexity increases, I'm glad to have the hand-holding. If anything, the tutorial needs to be expanded to explain the rating system more clearly and how the various components of time allocation matter for each genre. What I tend to think matters for say military action games (graphics and gameplay), doesn't seem to be echoed by the reviewers.
Considered a service by whom? What do you mean? Show me a game with no internet connectivity that has something labeled "Terms of Service."
EULAs govern copies of software. TOS govern the use of services.
For example, World of Warcraft has a EULA for the game client and TOS for using their game servers to play:
EULA http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_eula.html
TOS htp://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/wow_tou.html
I'm sure it's not unusual to put everything in one agreement, but as you can see, it varies by title, and saying that the two terms mean the same thing is incorrect.
As for putting a EULA (not TOS) only in the manual and not behind an OK button in the installer or at software startup, and claiming that it governs the use of the associated software (not internet services)--I'm certainly curious about that if you can show me some examples.
Yes, that's why I said they had EULAs.
dutchguyhjack said "you don't strictly speaking own any game in your collection"
I responded that that's not the case.
The game this thread is about is more niche than Ys Origins.
My reason for that is probably the style of the game. While a programmer rapidly mashing on the keyboard is probably not what a game dev actually does in real life like GDS shows it, at least it's better than the people you see in this game who just sit in front of a computer occasionally moving their hands to simulate typing or slowing writing on a notepad.
Jake Tower
Banned
So why didn't the Ninth Circuit follow the clear precedent of First Sale?
Congress already enacted law governing this matter: Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109
Section 109(a) provides: "Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 (3), the owner of a particular copy or phonorecord lawfully made under this title, or any person authorized by such owner, is entitled, without the authority of the copyright owner, to sell or otherwise dispose of the possession of that copy or phonorecord." The elements of the first sale doctrine can be summarized as follows: (1) the copy was lawfully made with the authorization of the copyright owner; (2) ownership of the copy was initially transferred under the copyright owner's authority; (3) the defendant is a lawful owner of the copy in question; and (4) the defendant's use implicates the distribution right only; not the reproduction or some other right given to the copyright owner.