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'The gold rush is over:' Slay the Spire and Darkest Dungeon devs say that big Game Pass and Epic exclusive deals have dried up for indie devs
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And he's masterfully spinning that one Square Enix quote about why FF16 was exclusive to "MoSt dEvS"
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
People hate gamepass because it is MS and because it is a subscription service so a lot of people absolutely don't want gaming to go the Netflix route.
People seem to be going a bit too far on this though. It doesn't say indie deals are gone, just that they aren't as big money wise as they used to be. We saw this a little time ago with Apple Arcade as well. I guarantee half the people complaining are still taking the reduced deals.
DaGwaphics
Member
They have a lot more first party games launching now. Those studios must get paid something for launching day one on there and those titles need to be given some room to shine. Possibly the previous games these particular devs released didn't get much engagement and that closed the door on them a bit.
Gojiira
Member
Plenty of Indies which the discussion was about were. Really doesn't change the point though.
Gamepass releases have not led to profits for said Indie developers.
Playstation has been better at supporting them.
Gamepass haa not been profitable or growing.
Lol at you and others copium…
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Now you’ve got to get by selling your games to real life customers. Imagine that!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not a single game released on Xbox is 'game pass exclusive', all games and content is available to purchase.
You're just being wrong in multiple posts here.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Oh man, plenty of GP exclusive titles that didn’t make profits because of said exclusivity? Damn that sucks. Please list some of them, since there are “plenty”.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
The problem with assuming most indies are filler, is that Microsoft might mistakenly assume some of what they've acquired is not filler itself.
Case in point: RedFall
Oh come on, that's like calling Sony "The Banking Company". Yeah video games might be a part of the company but we both know MS are mainly known for things outside of gaming (just like Sony are known mainly for things outside of banking/finance)
One correction: they didn't add ABK games to Game Pass either
So indie GP deals died because of Zenimax and ABK acquisition, and then Microsoft didn't add ABK games to Game Pass for 6 months (and counting) either
Well they did just recently (literally just) added Diablo IV after almost a year, but yeah no other ABK games in sight on the service.
People are trying to spin this news with indie deals drying up as "just" the market readjusting itself and indies needing to get back to reality. But seeing how MS are hesitant in putting almost any of the ABK games into the service despite now being free to do so, and pushing early access for preorder bonuses more aggressively, it'd seem this is a wider issue with Game Pass's current model not working well with the profits-driven revamp across their gaming division.
It's not revenue that's the issue. Well, it kinda is, but it isn't. The actual issue is profits.
People look at the revenue from a service like Game Pass and think that's net profit; it isn't. Licensing fees and costs for various software subsidized in dev fees to be Day 1 in the service, plus operating costs for the servers and such, each up a good amount of the revenue. I'd imagine the cost for MS to license any given 3P legacy release in GP costs them a decent bit more than Sony doing the same, so it's kinda funny the problem (from MS's end) of "paying more" for the same 3P content doesn't change regardless if it's 3P AAA exclusives or 3P catalog/legacy content in a subscription service.
But hey, that's their price to pay for having less market share in hardware, and 3P software sales. It's not because of anything anticompetitive, it's because Xbox wasn't competitive enough in the first place and paying more for the same 3P content is a consequence of that. A fair consequence, at that.
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Saber
Gold Member
You would be ultra rich everytime you read those stupid posts on GAF as well. I can remember when D&D released and was bad people were like "well its garbage, but I will play if goes to GP".
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Oh come on, that's like calling Sony "The Banking Company". Yeah video games might be a part of the company but we both know MS are mainly known for things outside of gaming (just like Sony are known mainly for things outside of banking/finance)
Irrelevant. Microsoft makes the Xbox, they are part of the gaming industry. But feel free to qualify away
all games are literally like that to me. i barely even play video games anymore so the only motivation is if they "free" on gamepass. can't be bothered otherwise esp when most games are friggin horrible cringe waste of my time (as an adult)
The Pleasure
Member
You forgot a brought to you by Carls Jr. FUCK YOU. I'M PLAYING!fixed that for you
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Irrelevant. Microsoft makes the Xbox, they are part of the gaming industry. But feel free to qualify away
You and I both know most people in the world don't think of video games first when they think of Microsoft. They think of Windows, they think of Office, they think of PCs and businesses, they think of Azure well before thinking of Xbox.
Only in American and maybe UK do most also think of Xbox in comparable weight. So calling them "The Video Game Company" is just kinda hilarious unless you're American.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Who cares? What you think of when you think Microsoft is irrelevant to the back and forth. All that matters is Microsoft is part of the video game industry. Context is a thing, you gold journalists need to learn that.
Not going to reply to you any further here
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
99% of EGS exclusives are timed to lock the competition out. That benefits no one but Tim Sweeney.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Who cares? What you think of when you think Microsoft is irrelevant to the back and forth. All that matters is Microsoft is part of the video game industry. Context is a thing, you gold journalists need to learn that.
Not going to reply to you any further here
Gold journalists? That's a new one.
Guess that the 'blue checkmark' equivalent
nikolino840
Member
Slay The Spire & Darkest Dungeons Studio Heads Talk Indie Funding, Clarify Earlier Remarks
Indie game developers Casey Yano and Chris Bourassa shed light on the challenges facing the industry, clarifying that the funding crunch comes from all corners.
gamersocialclub.ca
summarizingSlay The Spire & Darkest Dungeons Studio Heads Talk Indie Funding, Clarify Earlier Remarks
Indie game developers Casey Yano and Chris Bourassa shed light on the challenges facing the industry, clarifying that the funding crunch comes from all corners.
1-The article they published surprised him because he spoke in general about the funds dedicated to supporting indi developers and projects and not in relation to Gamepass and Epic specifically.
2- He was not referring to Gamepass or EpicStore per se, he was referring to the general situation of all publishers and platform holders and how now the industry is less willing to finance indie games. At a time when there are massive layoffs, it is clear that the investment in founding indi games was going to decline....
3-In fact, it was referring more specifically to EpicStore and not to Gamepass (According to the Studio, they do not have data on Gamepass). In fact, he only claims to know of some very good agreements signed by Indi studios with Gamepass.
But an article that can be interpreted as "Gamepass killed my grandmother" is better and sells more.....
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lefty1117
Gold Member
Gamepass is an awesome deal for consumers, I don't think this is much of a debate. The question is does it make sense for developers to put their stuff on it. Regardless of the channel though, there's a glut of games and only so many players, so a lot of good titles will be lost to the noise and there's nothing really to be done about it. I think we're in for a period of consolidation among game developers coming soon. Regarding Darkest Dungeon dev - they sort of shit the bed with DD2 so they bear some blame for their own situation.
Raven117
Member
In theory, I can see what MS thought GamePass would work. They wanted it to be the "Netflix of gaming."
It very well may have worked, but, among other things, in the end, they couldn't deliver enough big headliner games that would drive UP the sales of XBOX (and by extension GamePass) to have enough users to support it. Almost all of their "BIG" games were met by and large with collective "mehs." Gamers went elsewhere for the games they wanted...and that was that. (Plus, losing the first "digital" generation (ie, last gen) really put them behind.
It very well may have worked, but, among other things, in the end, they couldn't deliver enough big headliner games that would drive UP the sales of XBOX (and by extension GamePass) to have enough users to support it. Almost all of their "BIG" games were met by and large with collective "mehs." Gamers went elsewhere for the games they wanted...and that was that. (Plus, losing the first "digital" generation (ie, last gen) really put them behind.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This month's Game Pass drop certainly lends a lot of credence to this.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Colt eatswood agrees with you.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
recursive
Member
Did they say 10 to 15%? Pretty sure I saw subscriber target numbers of 100 million or more.
Xbox Game Pass subscribers expected to grow to 110 million by 2030
Microsoft defines leadership in the subscription space by pushing Xbox Game Pass past 100 million subscribers, seeks lofty 110m target for XGP service.
www.tweaktown.com
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Yep. As a matter of fact, their internal leaked charts also showed that they expected to be north of 40 million subscribers at this point -- which they failed to do.Did they say 10 to 15%? Pretty sure I saw subscriber target numbers of 100 million or more.
Xbox Game Pass subscribers expected to grow to 110 million by 2030
Microsoft defines leadership in the subscription space by pushing Xbox Game Pass past 100 million subscribers, seeks lofty 110m target for XGP service.
It is one of those "sour grapes" situation.
They failed to grow GP's market share and revenue, so now they are trying to pretend as if that never was their goal in the first place.
Little Chicken
Member
PC Gamer strikes again, they really have it out for Xbox for some reason.summarizing
1-The article they published surprised him because he spoke in general about the funds dedicated to supporting indi developers and projects and not in relation to Gamepass and Epic specifically.
2- He was not referring to Gamepass or EpicStore per se, he was referring to the general situation of all publishers and platform holders and how now the industry is less willing to finance indie games. At a time when there are massive layoffs, it is clear that the investment in founding indi games was going to decline....
3-In fact, it was referring more specifically to EpicStore and not to Gamepass (According to the Studio, they do not have data on Gamepass). In fact, he only claims to know of some very good agreements signed by Indi studios with Gamepass.
But an article that can be interpreted as "Gamepass killed my grandmother" is better and sells more.....
The clarification just makes them and the commentary in this thread look stupid
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Did they say 10 to 15%? Pretty sure I saw subscriber target numbers of 100 million or more.
Xbox Game Pass subscribers expected to grow to 110 million by 2030
Microsoft defines leadership in the subscription space by pushing Xbox Game Pass past 100 million subscribers, seeks lofty 110m target for XGP service.
Yes in the year 2027.
Yet they’ve done nothing the crystal ball doom and gloomers said they would do in order to increase subs (release episodic trash, churn out endless GaaS games, lock titles behind GamePass or do GamePass timed exclusives, etc). Their actions with GamePass since launch has been making it something entirely optional. Nothing close to trying to make the industry subscription only.
Topher
Gold Member
Slay The Spire & Darkest Dungeons Studio Heads Talk Indie Funding, Clarify Earlier Remarks
Indie game developers Casey Yano and Chris Bourassa shed light on the challenges facing the industry, clarifying that the funding crunch comes from all corners.
summarizing
1-The article they published surprised him because he spoke in general about the funds dedicated to supporting indi developers and projects and not in relation to Gamepass and Epic specifically.
2- He was not referring to Gamepass or EpicStore per se, he was referring to the general situation of all publishers and platform holders and how now the industry is less willing to finance indie games. At a time when there are massive layoffs, it is clear that the investment in founding indi games was going to decline....
3-In fact, it was referring more specifically to EpicStore and not to Gamepass (According to the Studio, they do not have data on Gamepass). In fact, he only claims to know of some very good agreements signed by Indi studios with Gamepass.
But an article that can be interpreted as "Gamepass killed my grandmother" is better and sells more.....
PC Gamer strikes again, they really have it out for Xbox for some reason.
The clarification just makes them and the commentary in this thread look stupid
PC gamer just sucks at reporting all around these days, but I'm not sure that PC gamer got this one wrong. They say....
"Slay the Spire launched to slow sales in Steam early access before eventually becoming a deckbuilding juggernaut. Darkest Dungeon was likewise a Steam early access success; both games are available on PC Game Pass, though DD director Chris Bourassa said that Microsoft's deals for getting games on Game Pass have "come down in scope" since the subscription service began.
"Way down," Yano added.
"So has Epic," Bourassa said. "The Gold Rush is over. I come from the Northwest Territories. The town I'm from was built on gold, and then they found diamonds further north. Maybe another paradigm shift is waiting for us, but I definitely think the scale of the deals I'm hearing about is significantly dimishese from the big swinging days. Certainly we got our Epic [deal] at the right time.""
So how are they not referring to Game Pass at all here? Did PC gamer just make up that entire bit about Game Pass and insert it into the article?
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Generic
Member
NeoGAF is the only place in the internet where people want to pay more for games
Now you’ve got to get by selling your games to real life customers. Imagine that!
Or perhaps their success criteria changed when it became clear growth has slowed?
Must have changed overnight then, since last month was pretty good.
Topher
Gold Member
NeoGAF is the only place in the internet where people want to pay more for games
What's this nonsense? Buying games rather than subscribing to a service is not wanting to "pay more for games".
MikeM
Member
Ever heard of sales?NeoGAF is the only place in the internet where people want to pay more for games
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Folks are still playing Diablo 4 or MLB The Show '24. I love that you were mum about game pass all last month and come back swinging 'this month' Heis, much love
.That being said, that drop was only for the first two weeks of the month, they don't do entire month drops at the same time unlike PS+, and we already know Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes is coming later in the month.
Shit's good, fam.
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That post he quoted was daft anyway. Games on GP are also available for sale, not just on other platforms but also on Xbox.
Topher
Gold Member
That would have been a much better reply.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
NeoGAF is the only place in the internet where people want to pay more for games
Or maybe it's just that people understand that games don't fall from the trees but it's companies that invest hundreds of millions to make them? If nobody pays, where does money come from? The same magic trees?
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KaiserBecks
Member
Microtransactions and season passes for unfinished products. Probably.
JackMcGunns
Member
Bruh .. the embedded tweet is leading with "helped a ton of games get funded".
I don't think you can make a better argument for the hater part
NeoGAF is the only place in the internet where people want to pay more for games
Nobody wants to pay more for games, they just hate Game Pass and would love to see it fail.
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Well this is dumb. Game pass is easily the best value in gaming right now.
As for PC (oh no I have to make an extra click on my mouse to launch my favorite game)
Wtf is wrong with yall
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Weird, I didn’t see you pipping up last month. Also the entire month of games aren’t even announced yet.
You think people pay for GamePass or other subscription services with bananas?
Again, indie devs with their games on subscription services still have their games up for sale in all markets.
JackMcGunns
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Awww, you missed me.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Awww, you missed me.
Just pointing out the bias of your gold journalism, friend, per usual.
Article has been debunked though, y’all have fun predicting the end of GamePass ver816
JackMcGunns
Member
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Nothing has been debunked, but ... sure.
I remember you saying the exact same thing about "the dream of Xbox going third-party" loly’all have fun predicting the end of GamePass ver816
Look at where we are now.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
wait a fricking minute, are there still people defending Xbox/Game Pass?.
my advice. Just go away and enjoy it while it lasts
my advice. Just go away and enjoy it while it lasts
Klayzer
Member
The usual infantrymen, of course.wait a fricking minute, are there still people defending Xbox/Game Pass?.
my advice. Just go away and enjoy it while it lasts