It's not nitpicking. You say that fans think the game is just "good". There are people in this very thread, like I one I quoted, that stated that the game had so much influence on them that it changed the way they viewed shooters. That's more than good, in my book. I actually can't think of a game that I've played where it's impacted my life to the point that I view other games differently.
If we disagree on what "good" means, then so be it.
I think this is where we disagree, this is not a big deal imo (particularly in this case as it was the entire point of the game). I certainly don't think this kind of opinion could justify the OP, which was my original point.
Seriously? You didn't give me a choice or anything? I'm not at fault because your shitty game design forces players to do something that you get to blame them for.
That was the point. In games like CoD, or heck, in linear action games with plots in general. You destroy things, kill people, in the exact way the game wants, or you do not get to progress, period. You might get congratulated, given gameplay perks, and have all the negative consequences sweaped under the rug, but Spec Ops was going to turn that around in this exact moment. Not to mention the scene was incredibly important for Walker's characterization as he got more and more detached, started repeating "I had no choice" throughout the game and his team's spirit got broken.
As far as pretty much everything is concerned, it's a military Bioshock Infinite.
It wants you to believe it's a much better game than it really is. And the impact of the pivotal moment in the story is entirely negated by the fact that you don't have a choice, unlike the other 'karma' moments. It's weak, then the game tries to make you feel bad about it, but it's terribly executed.
The only thing I really liked about it was
how it dealt with the murder of one of your squad-mates.
That was an interesting twist on being an 'Oo-Rah!' US soldier in a foreign country, and how the people living there might perceive your actions.
That was the point. In games like CoD, or heck, in linear action games with plots in general. You destroy things, kill people, in the exact way the game wants, or you do not get to progress, period. You might get congratulated, given gameplay perks, and have all the negative consequences sweaped under the rug, but Spec Ops was going to turn that around in this exact moment. Not to mention the scene was incredibly important for Walker's characterization as he got more and more detached, started repeating "I had no choice" throughout the game and his team's spirit got broken.
That wasn't the point. The lead writer even talked about how they agonized over cutting the ability for the player to choose what to do in that moment. It's a cop-out, and the game suffers for it.
It would have been a better game if there was an alternative, but most players were pushed towards the option that caused the most collateral damage, simply because it was "cool" and "pew, pew, explosions".
This game always to me had that same smell a number of console JRPGs from the last generation had: that it was a rarity we ever got something of that ilk (thematically questioning kill 'em all bravado vs existing at all) that it was loved for being different in an era dominated by the opposite. It's a question of perspective rather than taste, and loving flawed games.
Bioshock did the same thing. Rather than being an interesting twist, I was even more annoyed that Irrational made such a narrow, closed-minded rehash of System Shock 2. That struck me as Levine writing in an excuse for the drastically lessened player agency, not some kind of deep meta-commentary on games like most people claimed.
All it did was highlight how bland the game got for the entire last half.
Let's start with gameplay. I enjoy third person shooters and while this didn't stand out as one of the best ever, the gameplay was solid enough to keep being fun. It wasn't outright bad but it wasn't outright stellar. As a fan of third person shooters and not first person ones, it's always nice to get a decent game in a genre I like.
Onto the story. I loved it. I want to replay this game not just because I saw its name. That's how much I loved it. I love how the game toys with you at times. I love the decisions you have to make. I love how screwed up it can be. Also love that sometimes you might think you can't take the hard way out but you certainly can, it's just really hard to do (I'm thinking of a certain sniper segment).
Anyways, I love the game. It's a good game to me. It's a good game in the eyes of a lot of people and it's not like it got atrocious reviews.
It took me three tries to get through it, I really didn't enjoy it as others have, the perfect example of a 5/10 game, as bland as a game can be, atleast for me.
6 months is more than enough time for allied nations or, y'know, the freaking capital Abu Dhabi to send in support or an army to investigate what happened. The game assumes that Dubai = the entire UAE which botherd the hell out of me frankly speaking.
Over the years I've come to better terms with people not liking what I like. It is what it is, but this game is absolute shit and the people that like this game because they think it sends a message are absolute liars. It just drives me nuts more than anything when I see the posts claiming they are not a fan of FPS games but LOVED this one because it sent a powerful message about first person games and killing. Yeah...
Over the years I've come to better terms with people not liking what I like. It is what it is, but this game is absolute shit and the people that like this game because they think it sends a message are absolute liars. It just drives me nuts more than anything when I see the posts claiming they are not a fan of FPS games but LOVED this one because it sent a powerful message about first person games and killing. Yeah...
Over the years I've come to better terms with people not liking what I like. It is what it is, but this game is absolute shit and the people that like this game because they think it sends a message are absolute liars. It just drives me nuts more than anything when I see the posts claiming they are not a fan of FPS games but LOVED this one because it sent a powerful message about first person games and killing. Yeah...
Agreed. Don't want to be mistaken for a Dudebro. I feel bad for these people as they are missing out on some good FPS/TPS games because they care so much about what people think of them and their taste in games.
It would have been a better game if there was an alternative, but most players were pushed towards the option that caused the most collateral damage, simply because it was "cool" and "pew, pew, explosions".
It would have had to be obfuscated as hell so that people didn't treat the use of WP as a failstate and immediately reload the game. Heck, there is no alternative and I know people still reloaded, in vain.
The "oh I didn't think and did this awful thing" moment still exists right after
Lugo's death
. The Steam achievement percentages are pretty interesting
It was a competent shooter, we all know that by now. I really really felt like The Line was an important game, to me. Using a shooter to make a statement or commentary on shooters was just super interesting to me, so much so that I continued to find it interesting while reading Brendan Keogh's critical play through a little after I'd played it.
You don't have to like it, but I am super glad I played it.
It's fucking awesome. I played through the whole thing for the first time in a day a couple of months ago. Story made me feel some type of way no other game has ever made me felt.
Agreed. Don't want to be mistaken for a Dudebro. I feel bad for these people as they are missing out on some good FPS/TPS games because they care so much about what people think of them and their taste in games.
It would have had to be obfuscated as hell so that people didn't treat the use of WP as a failstate and immediately reload the game. Heck, there is no alternative and I know people still reloaded, in vain.
The "oh I didn't think and did this awful thing" moment still exists right after
Lugo's death
. The Steam achievement percentages are pretty interesting
Yeah, I said that was my favourite part of the game.
But the pivot point of the plot is forced, and it simply doesn't work because of it. The writer even talked about how allowing the player to avoid the use of WP would basically cause two different games to split from that point, but that is what they would have needed to do to make that moment carry any weight.
In the way that it's implemented, it's no more thought provoking than the shit that happens in Homefront.
I think it had a few cool things. The loading screens were genius, for example. But I do agree that it was a mediocre shooter with a predictable plot.
I also think it's a game everyone should play at least once. Despite how much I didn't like it I spent quite a few days thinking about it.
You did though, when you went to the radio tower. But when Konrad shows up after the truck crashes, his face is obscured. There's no reason for them to do this other than to make it a plot point.
That was the point. In games like CoD, or heck, in linear action games with plots in general. You destroy things, kill people, in the exact way the game wants, or you do not get to progress, period. You might get congratulated, given gameplay perks, and have all the negative consequences sweaped under the rug, but Spec Ops was going to turn that around in this exact moment. Not to mention the scene was incredibly important for Walker's characterization as he got more and more detached, started repeating "I had no choice" throughout the game and his team's spirit got broken.
But that's my problem. You can't chide a player for doing what it told you. In CoD or any other linear game, if you do what the game tells you you're allowed to go on. In a game in Dishonored, you get rewarded for making the right choice. In Spec Ops the Line, the game tells you which choice to make and then punishes you for not making the right choice. The whole "weight of your actions" thing doesn't hold up when the player has no control over their actions. Linear games like CoD are there as action movies--there aren't very many action movies where the main guy, after killing dozens of bad guys, gets carted off to the electric chair for mass murder. It's the same thing here. The gameplay doesn't hold up at all and the story isn't very good either. It's a very overrated game. I'm really surprised many people thought it was any good.
I found it fairly average as far as shooters go, very shooting gallery-y. The plot twist was clever, but it was kind of a stretch and not nearly the emotional rollercoaster for me as it is some people claims it to be.
Yeah, I said that was my favourite part of the game.
But the pivot point of the plot is forced, and it simply doesn't work because of it. The writer even talked about how allowing the player to avoid the use of WP would basically cause two different games to split from that point, but that is what they would have needed to do to make that moment carry any weight.
In the way that it's implemented, it's no more thought provoking than the shit that happens in Homefront.
I think that your appreciation of the games plot and character development is adversely affected by how many good books you've read. I picked the game up when it was 5 bucks and found it utterly unremarkable, primarily because I've read so many books with grittier themes and much, much better writing. The fact that this is held up to be such an amazing game for its plot speaks more to the dearth of games with good writing, not inherently how good the game is.
I think it had a few cool things. The loading screens were genius, for example. But I do agree that it was a mediocre shooter with a predictable plot.
I also think it's a game everyone should play at least once. Despite how much I didn't like it I spent quite a few days thinking about it.
I spent quite a few days thinking about Bioshock: Infinite. That doesn't connote that the game had strong themes.
Like B:I, Spec Ops' greatest strength is convincing you that it's a smart game, and making you feel smarter or more aware because of it. "We get it, but they don't get it". Really a good amount of it is just standard shooter faff.
Fair enough if you didn't like it, different strokes and all that. I thought it was great and I felt bad I waited so long to jump on it. The gameplay and shooting wasn't anything new or remarkable but it was a solid TPS with an interesting plot that pulled me in and shocked me in a few ways. I did expect to be shocked and that things may not be how they appear (as in it's not your standard oohrah! military shooter killing all the people that aren't American) due to posts on GAF hyping it up but I wasn't disappointed and really enjoyed the game.
Trying to get people to stop liking a game you don't like is stupid though because it's not hurting anyone.
I spent quite a few days thinking about Bioshock: Infinite. That doesn't connote that the game had strong themes.
Like B:I, Spec Ops' greatest strength is convincing you that it's a smart game, and making you feel smarter or more aware because of it. "We get it, but they don't get it". Really a good amount of it is standard shooter faff.
It was my GOTY of 2012. The game is serene and I love it dearly.
Game's don't need "super interesting/deep" gameplay to be good games. It used its interactiveness just as it should have. The shooting was as competent as it needed to be for me and the story really really got its hooks and me.
The music was great, too.
edit: Also people caling out a "try hard" story is the most laughable shit I've ever seen regarding a game's story. Spec Ops: The Line does a really great job at integrating its story into the game and it tells the story it wants to tell. The story has been told through text, and movies, but the interactive nature of video games adds a lot to that type of story as well.
You did though, when you went to the radio tower. But when Konrad shows up after the truck crashes, his face is obscured. There's no reason for them to do this other than to make it a plot point.
The game doesn't lead to believe that was anything more than a half imagined Konrad based on your recollection of him. Based on the plot he was safely guarded at the hotel and had no reason to actually appear at the crash.
I think that your appreciation of the games plot and character development is adversely affected by how many good books you've read. I picked the game up when it was 5 bucks and found it utterly unremarkable, primarily because I've read so many books with grittier themes and much, much better writing. The fact that this is held up to be such an amazing game for its plot speaks more to the dearth of games with good writing, not inherently how good the game is.
I think that video game writing (even in its questionable state) is very different to write a "book" (that can be anything between Novels, Poems, essays, short stories).
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but the problem with most of these threads is that it almost always feels like the argument is "I HAVE AN OPINION THAT DIFFERS WITH THE POPULAR OPINION AND I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW ABOUT IT" which honestly gets annoying when a dozen of these threads pop up about various games literally every day. I'm not really sure what the OP is trying to achieve here, because these threads always turn into either the poster realizing that his opinion is not actually that uncommon or fans of the game pouring in to tell the poster he is bad and should feel bad.
It's cool that you have your own opinion on a game! But you don't need to make a thread about it.
I respect your opinion and I see what you mean, but I don't agree. This is a reasonable space to open up discussion, especially many months after the game's release, to see if widespread GAF praise for the game has changed. At this point the OT is probably down to just hardcore fans posting there. I don't see an issue with creating a LTTP thread positive or negative to see how people are feeling about a game.
No he's not. His thread title combined with the first post is just stating why he didn't like the game. But nowhere is he opening a dialogue and asking what other think. In fact, the title alone is actively telling people to stop saying it's a good game.
You touched on my biggest problem with what is otherwise a very interesting story:
It's not subtle at all. Its commentary seems crafted in a heavy-handed way specifically aimed to get through the thick skull of some imaginary group of gamers that don't think at all about the shooters they play and how they interact with them (imaginary not because they don't exist, but because it's impossible to define who specifically this group constitutes).
The loading screens are borderline gag-inducing. DO YOU FEEL LIKE A HERO YET? They continually tell you how to feel about the story, instead of presenting a situation and letting you react to it on your own. It's the equivalent of whenever RPGs have their characters openly pontificate about What The Events Of The Story Mean, except in a way designed to chide you for even playing the game in the first place.
...Having said all that, it is a good game. I just don't think it's a great game, and that it could have been done better.
It's funny, though, that most of the emotions that this game tries to stir were evoked far stronger and more clearly by (mild MGS 3 spoilers follow) the famous river scene with The Sorrow in Metal Gear Solid 3. There, it was the fact that I was facing my actual choices as a player that gave the scene weight, as I knew I could have avoided killing most, if not all, of the people in that scene.
It's funny, though, that most of the emotions that this game tries to stir were evoked far stronger and more clearly by (mild MGS 3 spoilers follow) the famous river scene with The Sorrow in Metal Gear Solid 3. There, it was the fact that I was facing my actual choices as a player that gave the scene weight, as I knew I could have avoided killing most, if not all, of the people in that scene.
It's a competent TPS but I've said a number of times that it's overrated here on gaf. North did a great job considering the script he had to work with.
