Poltergust
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Pokémon Sun & Moon |OT2| Calling for help! · · · · · ·
- Thread starter Galava
- Start date
???
The dream is officially dead.
Hungry Ghost
Member
Does Pokemon Sun not have a night time? Can I not catch an Ratatta in Sun?
Also are mega evolutions done now basically? I know you can get them eventually, but with no new ones will they be in future games?
Also are mega evolutions done now basically? I know you can get them eventually, but with no new ones will they be in future games?
What, of course it does.
I'm not an expert by any means. Maybe someone can provide more insight. But what I observed while using the tool is that as long as you have the shiny charm, Masuda method, or both, shiny frames are fixed (though they are different depending on the method), and they usually come in "islands" where many consecutive or nearly consecutive frames hold the shinies. This stays true no matter how many times you restart the game, so I wouldn't call it a reroll effect, but maybe I'm not understanding well your concept of reroll.
Sorry for the late reply, but yes, this is correct. Ability, gender, nature, pokéball, the randomly generated IVs (or IV if you're using Destiny Knot) are all fixed. Which IVs are inherited from each parent is also predetermined, although obviously the IVs themselves will be different if you change the parents.
The Shadow Knight
Member
When determining shinyness for an egg the game will look at additional PIDs when you are using the Masuda Method(5 more) and shiny charm(3 more) and take the first shiny PID it finds.
Simplified this means the same shiny PID can be applied to 8/5/3 different eggs as it can appear as the first, second, etc. PID checked for an egg.
There's also some variance in how many RNG frames the game progresses to determine the other pokemon parameters that can also result in the same shiny PID being available for even more eggs. Not entirely sure about the mechanics behind this though.
Thank you for the explanation! Yes, I noticed once that a particular shiny "island" would only appear if I checked MM box (or both), but no shiny frames would be generated at all with just the SC. And this island was ~1600 frames down-stream from the previous one and ~3500 ahead of the next one.
The Shadow Knight
Member
I think that using only the SC should have the effect of taking more eggs to get to the same shiny PIDs. It shouldn't alter how the RNG progresses, it just makes the game go through the RNG slower.
Fun trivia: The reason that you need to use either Shiny Charm or Masuda Method is because if you don't the PIDs of your eggs are determined by an entirely different RNG which has no connection to the egg RNG. The game will always discard this PID when using either Shiny Charm or Masuda Method(yes even if it's shiny!) and replace it with one that comes from the main egg RNG.
I'd say a good starting place is to try and make a battle tree singles team:
1) Since a battle tree team is only 3 Pokémon instead of 6, it requires less prep work to get started. Additionally, the Battle Tree is lenient enough that you don't need to breed for perfect IVs and there's flexibility in acceptable natures.
2) Experimenting with the Battle Tree will get you to start thinking about team synergy and coverage in a more natural way than just reading a guide.
3) You'll be exposed to a WIDE variety of different Pokémon and strategies, which will give you the opportunity to build a basic understanding of Pokémon roles and specialisations. It may even inspire you to try out some of the Pokémon you run into.
4) At the end of the month, sharing teams with QR codes will become available. While teambuilding is still hugely important to understand, I don't want to tell you to do a lot of prep work when it may be more effective to try and learn some fundamentals rather than putting time into catching Dittos.
Yes it does, it goes night at 18:00 in real life or whenever your 3DS clock turn 18:00.
And much as I wish that mega are removed in future game, they will probably make new one in future games and will probably return in gen 8.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Do these games make anyone else feel a bit... uncomfortable?
like i got no problem playing games like Bloodborne or GTA, but something about these games rubs me the wrong way.
-EV Chaining is basically you beating the crap out of these creatures friends and family because you messed with their adrenal gland so they panic and call for help (adrenaline orb).
-they make a big deal about conservation and how corsola is brutally killed to the point of being endangered, but you're free to poach as many as you want and even get them to fight their mortal enemy.
-they're supposed to be your "friends" or "partners", yet you aren't going to have a perfect IV Pokemon from the start, so you're encouraged to get rid of your entire team eventually by breeding or trading.
-They basically made mega evolutions into an atrocity thats abusive, maybe to promote the new Z moves.
all the messed up pokedex entries are being brought to the front and center, being featured in the games plot and also things like showing pikachu being murdered in the official artwork (apparently what happened to lusamines one wasnt enough). But we're supposed to suspend disbelief that this world is centered around getting creatures to fight each other who brutally kill each other? then theres like the ratata who were hunted by yungoos, but you can get them to fight each other too... and after battles youll have a pokemon dripping in poison and looking like theyre crying.
Gen 1 never rubbed me this way, and seems quaint by comparison. No Sephiroth wannabe jrpg bosses or anything.
Before you say im taking it too seriously, the game itself takes itself too seriously.
like i got no problem playing games like Bloodborne or GTA, but something about these games rubs me the wrong way.
-EV Chaining is basically you beating the crap out of these creatures friends and family because you messed with their adrenal gland so they panic and call for help (adrenaline orb).
-they make a big deal about conservation and how corsola is brutally killed to the point of being endangered, but you're free to poach as many as you want and even get them to fight their mortal enemy.
-they're supposed to be your "friends" or "partners", yet you aren't going to have a perfect IV Pokemon from the start, so you're encouraged to get rid of your entire team eventually by breeding or trading.
-They basically made mega evolutions into an atrocity thats abusive, maybe to promote the new Z moves.
all the messed up pokedex entries are being brought to the front and center, being featured in the games plot and also things like showing pikachu being murdered in the official artwork (apparently what happened to lusamines one wasnt enough). But we're supposed to suspend disbelief that this world is centered around getting creatures to fight each other who brutally kill each other? then theres like the ratata who were hunted by yungoos, but you can get them to fight each other too... and after battles youll have a pokemon dripping in poison and looking like theyre crying.
Gen 1 never rubbed me this way, and seems quaint by comparison. No Sephiroth wannabe jrpg bosses or anything.
Before you say im taking it too seriously, the game itself takes itself too seriously.
Kinda, I refused to use Mega, due to the fact it seems to put Pokémon in pain but also because they are powered by dead Pokémon.
The only time I used Mega was part of my story in Pokémon X during the final Lysandre fight, after that my character left the mega stone at Route 10 as thanks to the dead Pokémon for lending their power.
It is just your feeling lol. First Gen pokedex also had the same edgy case there. During Gen V, team plasma is even worst by asking us the big question on catching Pokemon lol.
I'd say that it's not that you're taking the games too seriously, but that nothing has actually changed.
- The same thing was happening with horde battles or the old way of EV training. At least now the body count is smaller.
- Pokédex entries have always been horiffic, pick any ghost type at random.
- If anything, Hyper Training gives you the chance to bump up your starters to compete at a competitive level. Personally I prefer the narrative of being a ruthless trainer, casually discarding everything in the search of perfection.
- Zangoose and Seviper existed in Gen III and their relationship in ORAS was far more savage than anything in Sun & Moon. Ganging up on a lone creature is far more savage than finishing of a weakened prey.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
First gen kept it completely in the background as seemingly nonsensical lore
I know some of its not exactly new, and I used to defend the franchise by saying "but they like battling and they only faint!"
but even thats messed up now that you get them dripping with poison and crying about it, making me feel like an asshole
we get nothing justifying it other than a quick handwave.That said I think the new anime is the most watchable the shows ever been for me.
The Shadow Knight
Member
First gen kept it completely in the background as seemingly nonsensical lore
I know some of its not exactly new, and I used to defend the franchise by saying "but they like battling and they only faint!"
but even thats messed up now that you get them dripping with poison and crying about it, making me feel like an asshole
That said I think the new anime is the most watchable the shows ever been for me.
Gen 1 did have that Marowak that was killed by Team Rocket as a prominent part of the game progression.
Am I remembering wrong or does an NPC actually mention it being shot?
No they just state that it was killed by Team Rocket as she tried to protect Cubone, her child.
I just assumed that Team Rocket used their Pokémon to viciously attack Marrowak but the game leaves it to the player to fill in the blank.
The Shadow Knight
Member
Oh yes, you're right. My memory was very fuzzy.
For reference here's the actual dialogue:
Pokemon Blue Text Dump said:
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Yeah, it had a few darker parts, but nothing even remotely comparable to sun/moon.
Cubones 'omg so sad' lore doesn't even make any sense when 1. every cubone has the same backstory, and 2. they come out of the egg wearing their mothers skull.. just like the new mimikyu comes out wearing its disguise which makes its sad story completely redundant.
I know some of its not exactly new, and I used to defend the franchise by saying "but they like battling and they only faint!"
but even thats messed up now that you get them dripping with poison and crying about it, making me feel like an asshole
That said I think the new anime is the most watchable the shows ever been for me.
Some, almost all of it. Just accept things are the same as they have always been. If you find battling horrific now, then it was always horrific and you just chose to blind yourself to the suffering of your friends.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
they're not friends, the game made that very, very clear, and with this gen lost all of the ability to suspend disbelief that any of this is fun any more.
Like I said, it used to be mostly background noise that was easily skipped, and not front and center in between an edgy storyline about all kinds of abuse and insanity. Its more a straw that broke the camels back situation here, and I did beat the game and the post game, but its likely the last main pokemon game I buy.
Pokken and Mystery Dungeon were great recently so its not like the franchise itself is soured.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
da fuq you smoking? You can feed and take care of your Pokémon when they get dirt on them. They are friends more than ever. Lillie even mentions atop the last trial what battling means to Pokémon.
It just so happened that you were just a kid that gen 1 was background noise, as in, you didn't give a fuck. Just say Pokémon is too real for you with all the technological advancements and you can't handle it anymore.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
you mean that bollocks about pokemon not being things to collect that lilly spouts? I said "fuck off" out loud at that scene. This is a game where half the time youre collecting pokemon, a franchise that prided itself on "catching em all".
and then you get her legendary pokemon, take the islands deities, take some shit that just wants to go back to its dimension, stash the ones you're not using, and breed a super inbred team of pokemon that the only thing you can do with them is rub them with a stylus before you decide to replace them with something with better synergy or stats?
Yeah, friends...
at least pokemon yellow had pikachu follow you around and emote somewhat.
But apparently having an opinion different to your own is considered enough to be patronized.
The Shadow Knight
Member
You've always been stashing pokemon away if you abided by the "Gotta catch 'em all" catch phrase. If you want to go by in-universe logic, Pokemon at least have a nice place to go chill now with Poke Pelago rather than having to sit in a PC box for eternity.
You're right about breeding though, the way it works is definitely antithetical to the whole concept of pokemon as friends.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I agree the pelago thing was a nice peace of mind for people who thought the box system was questionable. Theres a lot to like about the game, but if theyre taking the series in a more serious, cutscene and dialogue heavy style, its just not for me any more.
At least I beat the game with terrible unevolved pokemon like arctic vulpix because theyre cute the way they are.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Labor camps working on berry farms or mines is a "nice place to chill" ?
LordRaptor
Member
It mines the shards, or it gets the hose again. Shards or hose.
The Shadow Knight
Member
That's on you as the player though, you can send them to a nice hot spring resort too.
While we don't know the specifics of being stored in the PC, labor camps are likely still better than something like limbo or permanent stasis.
Subtervotion
Member
The entire breeding concept has been half baked since it's inception in gen 2. And to an extent this includes genders.
Nidoran male and Nidoran female should be the same dex number
Machamp shouldn't be female
Cubone, like you mentioned
Kangaskan, born with baby
Chansey, egg in an egg?
Aegislash has gender but magnemite doesn't?
Just to name a few. There's really no consistent logic. And to be fair, all the issues with any gem 1 Pokémon can be somewhat explained because breeding didn't exist back then, but certainly a retcon of those issues or a fix would be better than nothing. Lol.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
I mean apparently nobody had seen a baby pichu until its inception
People seem to love the idea of serious pokemon to the point where they want "realistic animal noises"
Imagine hearing a dog-like pokemon yelping in pain. Im not sure how that would be appealing.
What you're saying fits what I know about the system. By "rerolls", I don't mean a true random process involved, but getting several values from the RNG instead of one. Since you get e.g. 5 consecutive values (which I call rolls), each one possibly a shiny, discarding 1 RNG value by rejecting 1-4 eggs will still give you a shiny if you reached the first one.
For this reason, It may be interesting to reject eggs when breeding magikarps, because this way, you could go BACK (by not rejecting eggs) as well as forward in the sequence when you find a shiny.
That's curious... Do you have details on this, that interests me a lot? That's such a strange way to code it... I thoght the main difference would be that SC or MM require more RNG values, not a completely different way to compute shininess...
The Shadow Knight
Member
This is my conclusion from looking at the disassembly made by PkHex author Kapothics that I found a while back. Basically it first calls the regular pokemon creation function which uses a different RNG to create the new Pokemon, PID included. Then it rolls additional PIDs(3 SC, 5 MM) using the egg RNG and overwrites the PID of the new pokemon after each roll and stops rolling more if the last one was a shiny.
It does not check the initially created PID for shinyness before overwriting it, which I assume is to avoid the odds becoming 9/4096 instead of 8/4096(with 8 additional rolls).
lvl99 Pixel
Member
forgot to ask earlier but is there any info on the hat pikachu in the game? is it available in any way?
Nope, at least not yet.
It's easier just to breed normally, then when you reset, stop one egg before the shiny one, save, and advance one by one from there. Shiny Charm + Masuda method means each egg uses ~30 RNG calls, so stopping an egg early gives you easily enough leeway. Mixing in rejections while breeding Magikarps is just asking for you to forget the exact order and mess it up (even if you do the same number of rejections and eggs, you'll get a different sequence unless you do them in exactly the same order too).
cooljeanius
Member
Just was fighting a shiny Granbull, my first wild random Shiny encounter in Pokémon I can remember (Red Gyarados doesn't count)...
and it used Roar before I could catch it.
>_<
and it used Roar before I could catch it.
>_<
Quick balls exist for this reason.
Two more shinies today... Starmie and Togedemaru. They really happen a lot when chaining.
I still don't understand why the function require a different number of random values for the same situation, though (except when you roll a shiny, obviously). I really need to look into assembly.
Do you still have the link for the code? I'm REALLY interested in this (if you don't, I'll google it, don't bother looking for it)
Well, they could do one less roll...
Yes, thinking about it, you're probably right...
I still don't understand why the function require a different number of random values for the same situation, though (except when you roll a shiny, obviously). I really need to look into assembly.
Meanwhile my beldum took 903 eggs and my porygon is 300 in
You gotta wait for the "Eggs hatched" stat to show up
Thats true. Didnt even think about that. I wonder how many people thought i hacked in ORAS. My wife hatched my eggs and ev trained for me in that game so my stat was always 0.
cooljeanius
Member
I was out. :-(
I saw someone with a shiny garchomp (and others).
No one is going to waste time on a shiny garchomp.
So what's the ove/under on chances of Pokemon news in a few hours?
I'm using RNG manipulation to do it, but I will still be taking the time.
That's not true! I'm planning on going for a full team of shiny pseudo-legends at some point!
I'm using RNG manipulation to do it, but I will still be taking the time.