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[Firestorm]

>_>

. . . Damn, my plug isn't going to work on anyone. Im gonna get a fucking Charmander one day!

If I didn't hate trying to work with wifi so much i'd get you a Charmander =p I think I bred about 100 of them. I wanted Fire Punch but it was an Emerald move tutor thing. My cousin had Emerald, but I didn't. I had to breed him in Fire Red (only 3rd gen game I own). There's no way to influence what nature you get ;_; so for a decent IV'd Charmander with a decent nature took me forever.

Not to mention it took me around 29 Charmanders to get a female which I could breed with Snorlax for Belly Drum. 1/8 chance of the child being a female my ass.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Reading through the beginners part of Smogon. Jesus Christ, no wonder these games take GameFreak so long to make. :O

The rabbit hole goes faaar.

Which tier is Magmortar, though? I can't seem to find him.

 

[Firestorm]

Reading through the beginners part of Smogon. Jesus Christ, no wonder these games take GameFreak so long to make. :O

The rabbit hole goes faaar.

Which tier is Magmortar, though? I can't seem to find him.

"Underused". Smogon, a few months ago, chucked everyone from the Borderline tier into UU to properly test and see what tiers they belonged to. Hopefully this isn't too much information for one day, but this is how the tiers work:

Uber: Banned except in Uber battles
Overused (OU): Most often used Pokemon in the competitive metagame
Borderline (BL): Banned from UU play. Basically, too strong for UU play but aren't really used enough to be in the top whatever% of Pokemon
Underused (UU): Only Pokemon from this tier and under can be used in UU play (low tier play)
Neverused (NU): Holy crap these Pokemon suck ass buff plz

Think of OU as sort of like a threat list. You will see a LOT of those Pokemon >.>

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

"Underused". Smogon, a few months ago, chucked everyone from the Borderline tier into UU to properly test and see what tiers they belonged to. Hopefully this isn't too much information for one day, but this is how the tiers work:

Uber: Banned except in Uber battles
Overused (OU): Most often used Pokemon in the competitive metagame
Borderline (BL): Banned from UU play. Basically, too strong for UU play but aren't really used enough to be in the top whatever% of Pokemon
Underused (UU): Only Pokemon from this tier and under can be used in UU play (low tier play)
Neverused (NU): Holy crap these Pokemon suck ass buff plz

Think of OU as sort of like a threat list. You will see a LOT of those Pokemon >.>

OU seem to be the ones that everybody comes up with strategies to counter against. You can subvert this by coming up with novel movesets or by using something completely out of left field, like a Shedinja* or that Dunsparce evo.

* I'm not sure if this is UU or whatever.

 

[Eteric Rice]

"Underused". Smogon, a few months ago, chucked everyone from the Borderline tier into UU to properly test and see what tiers they belonged to. Hopefully this isn't too much information for one day, but this is how the tiers work:

Uber: Banned except in Uber battles
Overused (OU): Most often used Pokemon in the competitive metagame
Borderline (BL): Banned from UU play. Basically, too strong for UU play but aren't really used enough to be in the top whatever% of Pokemon
Underused (UU): Only Pokemon from this tier and under can be used in UU play (low tier play)
Neverused (NU): Holy crap these Pokemon suck ass buff plz

Think of OU as sort of like a threat list. You will see a LOT of those Pokemon >.>

Can UU be used in OU matches?

What makes this sort of confusing is that the way tiers are named, it sounds like it goes by usage, and not by effectiveness.

Though I guess those two go hand in hand, but still.

 

[rainer516]

The metagame has significantly improved since Garchomp became uber, I had raised 2 pokemon specifically for it (Vaporeon and Ludicolo). Now that I don't have to have them all the time (I hate being forced into a corner with my choices) I can focus on using my faves such as Zangoose and Solrock.
Nothing like beating somebody's cookie cutter EV trained Gyrados with a floating sun-face rock thing.

People who despise the current pokemon battle methodology don't understand what it is quite yet. The system has improved significantly with each generation and I'm glad gamefreak takes a long time before updating it because each time they do it's another reason to start experimenting with these critters for ages to find the perfect strategy.

I personally play the game by coming up with unique multiplayer strategies that no one sees coming, breeding and training pokemon for that is quite fun and keeps my additional DS purchases to a staggering minimum which is awesome for someone like me who travels a lot.

Can UU be used in OU matches?

What makes this sort of confusing is that the way tiers are named, it sounds like it goes by usage, and not by effectiveness.

Though I guess those two go hand in hand, but still.

Yes they can, infact I play using only non-ubers and sleep clause as the restrictions, anything goes otherwise. Using an Ampharos to take down a powerhouse like Skarmory is awesome.

 

[Firestorm]

Can UU be used in OU matches?

What makes this sort of confusing is that the way tiers are named, it sounds like it goes by usage, and not by effectiveness.

Though I guess those two go hand in hand, but still.

Yep.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/intro_comp_pokemon#tiers

 

[Forkball]

I didn't know it was a tier list, I just thought it was based on how frequent those Pokemon are used in competitive play. Dugtrio is OU? Do a lot of people really use him?

 

[rainer516]

I didn't know it was a tier list, I just thought it was based on how frequent those Pokemon are used in competitive play. Dugtrio is OU? Do a lot of people really use him?

Dugtrio has one of the highest speed stats in the game, and its ability makes it no slouch either.

 

[Delio]

Man it is pretty fun watching people learn about the metagame hehe. I remember when i started getting into it. So much you had to learn to even get decent.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Man it is pretty fun watching people learn about the metagame hehe. I remember when i started getting into it. So much you had to learn to even get decent.

I just want to whipe the elite four so I can start breeding and shit. :lol

God damn HM bitch took up one of my spots, and I couldn't find another Pokemon I liked in the wild, so I ended up with 4 high levels, and I think I'll need at least 5 to beat them. -_-

What else annoys me is that I can't transfer any of my decent level stuff from Ruby to this (had some pokemon at like, level 55) game until I beat the elite four.

/rage

 

[Neil]

Am I the only one who thinks focusing on IV/EV's takes the fun out of the game? :/

 

[funkmastergeneral]

Am I the only one who thinks focusing on IV/EV's takes the fun out of the game? :/

Agreed. But for spreadsheet number crunchers its like porn.

 

[Somnid]

Am I the only one who thinks focusing on IV/EV's takes the fun out of the game? :/

IVs are fine because it adds some statistical personality to the pokemon and gives you a completely impossible goal that's hard to abuse. EVs are just monotony incarnate but too important to outright ignore.

 

[Kletian]

Does anyone have a Trapinch that they bothered to level up high enough to learn Earthquake? I need to get that move onto my Gliscor and Trapinch is the only one who learns it that he can breed with.

Problem is Trapinch doesn't learn the move til fricking 75.

But my team is starting to flesh out beyond that.

Drapion
Nighslash
Cross Poison
Arial Ace (sorry I like that the move is so random coming from him so I keep it)
???

Gliscor
Earthquake
Roost
Swords Dance
Ice Fang

Dusknoir
Thunder Punch
Shadow Punch
Pain Split
Will-o-Wisp

Ludicolo
Rain Dance
Leech Seed
Giga Drain/Surf
Toxic

Heracross
Megahorn
Close Combat
???
???

And now I need to figure out my last pokemon I'm thinking special sweeper.

 

[Lucario]

To the people who are bothering to raise pokemon with perfect Effort and Individual values: most of the people on smogon (which, in the last page, GAF has been reading a lot) do not do this in the games themselves. Most of them just use Shoddybattle, which lets them make their team in three minutes and battle online immediately from their computers as opposed to needing ten hours of setup before their team is ready.


That, and pokesav. Pretty much everyone on smogon has pokesav.

And now I need to figure out my last pokemon I'm thinking special sweeper.

Breloom. You'll be able to sweep the last two pokemon on a team with spore/leech seed/focus punch.

 

[Lucario]

(Accidentally double-posted due to lag)

 

[Kletian]

To the people who are bothering to raise pokemon with perfect Effort and Individual values: most of the people on smogon (which, in the last page, GAF has been reading a lot) do not do this in the games themselves. Most of them just use Shoddybattle, which lets them make their team in three minutes and battle online immediately from their computers as opposed to needing ten hours of setup before their team is ready.


That, and pokesav. Pretty much everyone on smogon has pokesav.


Breloom. You'll be able to sweep the last two pokemon on a team with spore/leech seed/focus punch.

Except then I'm running two grass types on my team, I thought of Breloom if my Ludicolo doesn't turn out to work how I want.

I was thinking maybe Arcanine just for something different, and I lack strong fire moves.

 

[Lucario]

Except then I'm running two grass types on my team, I thought of Breloom if my Ludicolo doesn't turn out to work how I want.

I was thinking maybe Arcanine just for something different, and I lack strong fire moves.

If you really want a fire sweeper, lead with a BellyZard.

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Fire Punch
EarthQuake
Substitute
Belly Drum

If you want a special fire sweeper, use a Magmortar or a heatran.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

yeah okay guys this is seriously fascinating and all but i want a scyther that can shoot fire from its eyes

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I didn't know it was a tier list, I just thought it was based on how frequent those Pokemon are used in competitive play. Dugtrio is OU? Do a lot of people really use him?

He's a great revenge killer. If one of your pokemon has just been KOed, and the opponent is below 25%, he's great for swapping in, trapping, and delivering the final blow, because his ability prevents the wounded pokemon from switching out, and his incredibkle speed makes it likely he'll act first.

Except then I'm running two grass types on my team, I thought of Breloom if my Ludicolo doesn't turn out to work how I want.

I was thinking maybe Arcanine just for something different, and I lack strong fire moves.

With two grass types, you should consider a heatran. Its special ability makes his fire attacks stronger if he gets hit with a fire attack; with two grass types, you should be pretty effective at drawing attacks like that out. It works like a charm with my team that has Skarmory and Bronzong.

 

[Firestorm]

IVs are fine because it adds some statistical personality to the pokemon and gives you a completely impossible goal that's hard to abuse. EVs are just monotony incarnate but too important to outright ignore.

Really? I think it's the opposite. IVs are boring, tedious work. I mean, higher is better period and you want 31 in all stats if possible (except for Hidden Power stuff). EVs on the other hand lets you customize a Pokemon to do the job you want it to. There's a give and take with it as you figure out how to best distribute the 510 points available to you. And with the items this generation + Pokerus, you can fully EV train a Pokemon in half an hour.

 

[Eteric Rice]

How often do Pokemon switch around in terms of tier?

I'd like to see a day when I can legitamately use a Kingler without being laughed at.

 

[jman2050]

How often do Pokemon switch around in terms of tier?

I'd like to see a day when I can legitamately use a Kingler without being laughed at.

Physical crabhammer + swords dance actually makes it somewhat viable this time around, so you're in luck!

 

[Shiggie]

How often do Pokemon switch around in terms of tier?

I'd like to see a day when I can legitamately use a Kingler without being laughed at.

Kingler is awesome. Fuck the haters.

 

[Firestorm]

Kingler will probably never be OU >.> X-Act updates the tiers (OU/BL) once every 4 months I believe. Don't worry and just use who you want. Hell, leading with Butterfree means lots of people let their guard down against me which leads to fun victories =)

To the people who are bothering to raise pokemon with perfect Effort and Individual values: most of the people on smogon (which, in the last page, GAF has been reading a lot) do not do this in the games themselves. Most of them just use Shoddybattle, which lets them make their team in three minutes and battle online immediately from their computers as opposed to needing ten hours of setup before their team is ready.


That, and pokesav. Pretty much everyone on smogon has pokesav.

Hm... I know quite a few who don't. Then again, a lot of the people I know on Smogon who play in-game like playing Battle Tower over multiplayer. It really requires some interesting strategies that are completely different from wifi play. If anyone is bored of multiplayer, it's a refreshing change.

If you really want a fire sweeper, lead with a BellyZard.

Charizard @ Salac Berry
Fire Punch
EarthQuake
Substitute
Belly Drum

If you want a special fire sweeper, use a Magmortar or a heatran.

Bellyzard isn't for leading. You want to save him to set up and sweep late game. I agree with your earlier post that Heatran is a good Pokemon. Although Kletian, any reason for Rain Dance on Lucario?

 

[Lucario]

Bellyzard isn't for leading. You want to save him to set up and sweep late game. I agree with your earlier post that Heatran is a good Pokemon. Although Kletian, any reason for Rain Dance on Lucario?

In shoddy, my lead bellyzard sweeps the entire enemy team more often than he doesn't kill. Bellyzard is horrible if he isn't a lead, thanks to stealth rock.

 

[Firestorm]

In shoddy, my lead bellyzard sweeps the entire enemy team more often than he doesn't kill. Bellyzard is horrible if he isn't a lead, thanks to stealth rock.

Stealth Rock is definitely a problem but I guess the common leads have changed? When I still played they were usually Pokemon like Salamence and Gyarados who'd eat a Charizard for lunch.

 

[Kletian]

Kingler will probably never be OU >.> X-Act updates the tiers (OU/BL) once every 4 months I believe. Don't worry and just use who you want. Hell, leading with Butterfree means lots of people let their guard down against me which leads to fun victories =)
Hm... I know quite a few who don't. Then again, a lot of the people I know on Smogon who play in-game like playing Battle Tower over multiplayer. It really requires some interesting strategies that are completely different from wifi play. If anyone is bored of multiplayer, it's a refreshing change.

Bellyzard isn't for leading. You want to save him to set up and sweep late game. I agree with your earlier post that Heatran is a good Pokemon. Although Kletian, any reason for Rain Dance on Lucario?

Because it's a Ludicolo and not a Lucario? :lol

And also, isn't Heatran considered an Uber since it's a Legendary?

 

[Firestorm]

Because it's a Ludicolo and not a Lucario? :lol

XD Well what do you expect me to see on a page with two Lucario avatar users!
I knew that moveset looked odd.

 

[Lucario]

Stealth Rock is definitely a problem but I guess the common leads have changed? When I still played they were usually Pokemon like Salamence and Gyarados who'd eat a Charizard for lunch.

Most Salamence leads tend to start with Dragon Dance, and I've never seen a Gyarados lead.

The most common leads now seem to be Bronzong and Azelf; I can set up on either of them.

 

[rainer516]

I've never seen a Gyarados lead.

The most common leads now seem to be Bronzong and Azelf; I can set up on either of them.

Damn, who do you play? Gyrados leads are common as all hell, I think it's the intimidate.

 

[Eteric Rice]

And also, isn't Heatran considered an Uber since it's a Legendary?

Nah, a Pokemon isn't considered uber just because he's legendary. There are quite a few legendary pokemon in OU and lower, actually. I think Articuno is one that is in UU or NU.

 

[RagnarokX]

Because it's a Ludicolo and not a Lucario? :lol

And also, isn't Heatran considered an Uber since it's a Legendary?

Uber and legendary are not synonyms. Uber status is determined by stats and abilities. Look at wobbuffet; it is on the uber list and that's nowhere near a legendary.

 

[Teknoman]

I'll see what I can do about the Charmander when I get back from work Black Wind.

 

[Kletian]

Nah, a Pokemon isn't considered uber just because he's legendary. There are quite a few legendary pokemon in OU and lower, actually. I think Articuno is one that is in UU or NU.

Ah ok, well considering this is fighting friends and no-lengendaries is the rule I'd rather not change that to no ubers and then confuse the fuck out of my more casual friends :lol

 

[Firestorm]

Man if I ever saw a Charizard I don't think I'd do anything to risk getting Belly Drum'd :lol I've swept as a result of my opponent switching/setting up far too many times for that!

Uber and legendary are not synonyms. Uber status is determined by stats and abilities. Look at wobbuffet; it is on the uber list and that's nowhere near a legendary.

And Articuno is nowhere near Uber
buff articuno plz

General rule of thumb, the trios aren't Uber. This means the birds, dogs, regis, pixies are all off the hook.

 

[Johann]

Damn, who do you play? Gyrados leads are common as all hell, I think it's the intimidate.

It also helps Gyarados has a pretty diverse move pool. There are a ton of different builds for it.

 

[JohnTinker]

I miss the R/B/Y battling days without all of this outrageous metagame.

I remember going to the mall tours and beating everyone in the lv100 bracket and facing the same Nintendo rep 2 years in a row. We had identical teams with identical movesets except for 1.

Mine was:
Mewtwo with Double Team, Toxic, Psychic, and Rest
Jolteon with Double Team, Toxic, Thunder, and Rest
Starmie with Double Team, Toxic, Hydro Pump, and Recover (should have been Rest, which is what the NOA guy had)

Both times we played the matches lasted about 20 minutes on the big screen rigs they had set up. First year we played on some "Wide Boy 64" cart that Nintendo had made, and the second year we played on Pokemon Stadium. It would always come down to our Mewtwos


I miss those days

 

[myDingling]

I miss the R/B/Y battling days without all of this outrageous metagame.

I remember going to the mall tours and beating everyone in the lv100 bracket and facing the same Nintendo rep 2 years in a row. We had identical teams with identical movesets except for 1.

Mine was:
Mewtwo with Double Team, Toxic, Psychic, and Rest
Jolteon with Double Team, Toxic, Thunder, and Rest
Starmie with Double Team, Toxic, Hydro Pump, and Recover (should have been Rest, which is what the NOA guy had)

Both times we played the matches lasted about 20 minutes on the big screen rigs they had set up. First year we played on some "Wide Boy 64" cart that Nintendo had made, and the second year we played on Pokemon Stadium. It would always come down to our Mewtwos


I miss those days

Why Rest over Recover? I think my Mewtwo was Recover, Psychic, Amnesia, and Toxic(?). Don't remember that last one, I think I switched it up a lot since it'd didn't usually matter, the other three moves were enough.

Also, I completely agree. All of this bullshit with feeding them, growing, plants, day/night, BLAHH. The worst part is if you don't do it, you won't be viable in Battling either.

Also, really Nintendo? Remake of these games? Man they're scraping the barrel and you're all eating it up. Kinda sad.

 

[Varjet]

Mine was:
Mewtwo with Double Team, Toxic, Psychic, and Rest

RBY Mewtwo without Amnesia? FAIL

 

[Deleted member 13876]

Also, really Nintendo? Remake of these games? Man they're scraping the barrel and you're all eating it up. Kinda sad.

A remake of one of my favorite games ever/what I considered to be the best Pokemon game so far. You bet your ass I'm all over this. Nostalgia or not, it's not like it's a direct port as it'll feature all the enhancements the series has gone through so far and more, so I'm pretty damn excited.

 

[Kletian]

Also, really Nintendo? Remake of these games? Man they're scraping the barrel and you're all eating it up. Kinda sad.

It honestly makes sense though as this will be the only real way to get ahold of like 50% of the pokedex for the current generation.

And now with this, thanks to D/P/Pt we probably wont need to see any of the games remade until 6th generation at least and even that will probably only be remakes of D/P/Pt, or maybe R/S/E

 

[JohnTinker]

RBY Mewtwo without Amnesia? FAIL

Double Team would eventually raise its evasion so high that nothing could ever touch it. Toxic would have the opponent completely killed off in a few turns, and back then nobody ever utilized Rest like they should have. I never lost any battles except to that NOA guy back then

 

[Boss Doggie]

Gen II is the only Pokemon not "updated".

 

[Firestorm]

Hm. I didn't realize we'd been talking in the GS thread. I think anyone who's trying to learn more about competitive play and the current generation should ask for help in the Platinum thread!

I miss the R/B/Y battling days without all of this outrageous metagame.

Heh, RBY still had a ridiculous metagame. Except instead of 32 potential IV numbers there were 16 iirc. And instead of EVs requiring any sort of strategy, you could max every stat. IIRC, the game was filled with Wrap + Hyper Beam due to how the moves worked back then. This was with Mewtwo + Mew banned. Those two obviously tore shit up =p <3 Mewtwo/Mew. No legendary Pokemon since can match up to those guys! stupid rayquadfadfa whatever

It honestly makes sense though as this will be the only real way to get ahold of like 50% of the pokedex for the current generation.

And now with this, thanks to D/P/Pt we probably wont need to see any of the games remade until 6th generation at least and even that will probably only be remakes of D/P/Pt, or maybe R/S/E

I honestly think we'll have an RS remake next generation. Hell, maybe the generation after that Nintendo will do a DP and RB remake because it would have been 10 / 20 years! :lol

 

[Black-Wind]

If I didn't hate trying to work with wifi so much i'd get you a Charmander =p I think I bred about 100 of them.

>_> . . . Your not making be feel better.

When does CoroCoro leak? Today?

 

[OutLawSuit]

And Articuno is nowhere near Uber

He would be if Mind Reader + Sheer Cold was allowed...

 

[Jokey665]

He would be if Mind Reader + Sheer Cold was allowed...

Not really... he's still really bad even with that combo. Partly because that combo is also pretty bad.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

He would be if Mind Reader + Sheer Cold was allowed...

switch- the most powerful move in the game.