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PoliGAF 2017 |OT5| The Man In the High Chair

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C

Cesare Borgia

Banned
Plinko said:
Right, and I still think people need to differentiate between a motion to proceed and the actual bill. It is by no means guaranteed that the bill would pass after the MTP was agreed upon.
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I could see a MTP vote working, but I see no indication that a healthcare bill can be passed right now.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
um not to take away from the gravity of the threat of tens of millions of people potentially losing their health insurance later today but...there is still the matter of my new tag that needs to be addressed

just throwing that out there

no rush or anything
 
S

Siegcram

Member
Ecotic said:
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 1m1 minute ago

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has taken a VERY weak position on Hillary Clinton crimes (where are E-mails & DNC server) & Intel leakers!
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Not enough laughing gifs on the internet 😂😂😂
 
H

Hyoukokun

Member
Nordicus said:
And he is aiming his frustrations at Sessions, not Rosenstein.
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Even he is smart enough to know that going for Rosenstein directly is a bad look. Pointless, though, since he's made it clear that the fundamental reason he wants Sessions out is to get direct influence over the Russian investigation.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
http://www.businessinsider.in/Liber...ir-hamburger-problem/articleshow/59640802.cms

As I see it, Democrats' problem isn't that they're on the wrong side of policy issues. It's that they're too ready to bother too many ordinary people about too many of their personal choices, all the way down to the hamburgers they eat.

They don't always want to prohibit those choices. But they have become smug and condescending toward anyone who does not match the personal lifestyle choices of liberal elites. Why would the voters on the receiving end of that smug condescension trust such a movement to operate the government in their best interest?
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The gender-reveal party you held for your most recent child inaccurately conflated gender with biological sex. ("Cutting into a pink or blue cake seems innocent enough - but honestly, it's not," Marie Claire warned earlier this month.)

You don't ride the subway because you have that gas-guzzling car, but if you did, the way you would sit on it would be sexist .

No item in your life is too big or too small for this variety of liberal busybodying. On the one hand, the viral video you found amusing was actually a manifestation of the patriarchy . On the other hand, you actually have an irresponsibly large number of carbon-emitting children .

All this scolding - this messaging that you should feel guilty about aspects of your life that you didn't really think were anyone else's business - leads to a weird outcome when you go to vote in November.
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It's an interesting take. Don't agree with it 100%. Do agree with it at some level. Liberals won the cultural wars, no need to take it too far. More importantly, no need to make people feel that simple things they like to do is bad for you/earth/children/atmosphere.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
Every once in a while I like to go look at fake rogue account Twitter and feel sad anyone actually bought it but I'd totally actually believe it's a propaganda account now since all they do is dunk on Pelosi and other democrats for trying to stop healthcare instead of focusing on Russia. It's almost like it's part of an agenda or something...

0JgAtex.png
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O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
cartoon_soldier said:
http://www.businessinsider.in/Liber...ir-hamburger-problem/articleshow/59640802.cms





It's an interesting take. Don't agree with it 100%. Do agree with it at some level. Liberals won the cultural wars, no need to take it too far. More importantly, no need to make people feel that simple things they like to do is bad for you/earth/children/atmosphere.
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Figured it was Josh Barro. He whined about this the other day on Left, Right and Center.

I'd take his criticisms more seriously if Republicans didn't busybody a thousand times more (and want to enshrine their shit into actual law) and people still have no problem voting for them.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
cartoon_soldier said:
http://www.businessinsider.in/Liber...ir-hamburger-problem/articleshow/59640802.cms





It's an interesting take. Don't agree with it 100%. Do agree with it at some level. Liberals won the cultural wars, no need to take it too far. More importantly, no need to make people feel that simple things they like to do is bad for you/earth/children/atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Republicans literally want to legislate what bathroom you use so I don't really buy Democrats being the ones who invade people's personal decisions too much.

Wilsongt said:
So are we about to have Saturday Night Massacre 2: Electric Trumpaloo?
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How far down do you think Trump would have to go before he found someone willing to fire Mueller? He's barely filled out most of the positions, right?
 
D

Dr. Worm

Banned
The good news about the liberal cultural disconnect not really being about public policy is that Democrats don't have to change any important cultural policy positions to fix the disconnect.

I have a few ideas about how Democratic politicians can effectively signal to voters across the cultural spectrum a message along these lines: "I get you, I don't have a problem with the way you live your life, I have some ideas about how government can work better for you, and I'll otherwise get out of your way."

Don't tell people they should feel guilty. As I discussed at the top of this piece, Americans are broadly open to liberal positions on cultural policy issues. Over the last few decades, they have increasingly internalized the idea that the government should let people be free to do what they want in their lives. So embrace that ethos, by emphasizing how liberal policy positions will let members of all sorts of groups live their best lives, protected from discrimination and harm. Don't tell people they should feel bad about living their own lives as they want.

Say when you think the liberal commentariat has gone overboard. While former President Barack Obama has urged people to eat less meat, usually the leading voices of the new liberal moralism are non-politicians. Less-smug liberal commentators will usually protest that these voices are marginal, especially the college students who get so much attention on Fox News for protesting against culturally insensitive sushi in the dining hall. If these voices are so marginal, it should be easy enough for Democratic politicians to distance themselves by saying, for example, that some college students have gotten a little nuts and should focus on their studies instead of the latest politically correct cause. Showing that you also think liberal cultural politics has gotten a little exhausting is a good way to relate to a lot of voters.

Offer an agenda that provides benefits people can see mattering in their daily lives. If you want voters to refocus away from petty cultural fights and toward public policy, it's not enough to turn down the temperature on culture; you need a policy agenda they can relate to. I wrote in December about some ideas to do this , though of course you could also make such an agenda in farther-left flavors.

Don't get distracted by shiny objects. If the government can't do anything about the problem you're discussing, if it's purely a matter of the cultural discourse, should you spend your time on it, and risk alienating people on the opposite side of the issue? Probably not.
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Isn't this what Democratic politicians are already doing?

I'm reminded of an earlier discussion of how people voted for Trump because of Colin Kaepernick and Black Lives Matter, despite neither of those things having received much acknowledgement from the Clinton campaign.
 
W

Wilsongt

Member
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump

So great that John McCain is coming back to vote. Brave - American hero! Thank you John.
6:44 AM · Jul 25, 2017

Such a brave, American hero for voting on a bill that will literally kill Americans.

I better hope I don't end up in the ER again with problems with my heart. It's now a pre-existing condition and I am sure Trump Fuckboy Henry McMaster will allow SC to opt out of the pre-existing condition clause
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Oblivion said:
Figured it was Josh Barro. He whined about this the other day on Left, Right and Center.

I'd take his criticisms more seriously if Republicans didn't busybody a thousand times more (and want to enshrine their shit into actual law) and people still have no problem voting for them.
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I think GOP has largely withdrawn from cultural wars. They haven't withdrawn from identity politics.

benicillin said:
Republicans literally want to legislate what bathroom you use so I don't really buy Democrats being the ones who invade people's personal decisions too much.
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Let's remember, NC voted out Republican Governor over this in a state Trump won. The question is, whether people are also fine with being told that saying "Ladies & Gentlemen" is wrong, whether
 
S

Siegcram

Member
F

Finale Fireworker

Member
I think there's definitely something to liberals "getting triggered" over stupid stuff. Stuff that normal people that don't think about politics 24/7 take for granted and get super annoyed when they have to defend themselves on it.

Every positive ideology suffers from this. Veganism is plagued by the attention-seeking "I'm a vegan" stereotype. Feminism is plagued by the uppity man-hating stereotype that seeks offense at every opportunity. Environmentalism struggled with the "tree-hugging hippie" stereotype for decades. The issue we're facing now is liberals, or more accurately, many progressives falsely conflated as "liberals", are dealing with the extremist issue.

Because a normal apolitical person thinking "liberals" care how many children you have or where you buy your sushi is as accurate as somebody thinking Americans clap after eating. Maybe it was Tumblr or maybe it's high-profile instances in the news, but now people hate how liberals get "triggered" or "need a safe space" over every little thing.

And, like, those were our words. Those were things we made up and propagated on social media and most people thought we were extremely stupid. The self-fulfilling "libtard" prophecy.

I don't really have a point to make about that. Just sort of thinking out loud. I have no idea how much it influences voters. But if both parties are defined by their extremists, regardless of how many of them there are, I think you could argue that its the representatives responsibility to moderate that image. Republicans embraced their insanity and are now run by extremist sycophants. Democrats don't really talk to their extremists, or cater to them, or acknowledge them. They let them be and they don't really come up.

Again: I am not able to draw any conclusion from this. But I think it's worth talking about. People hate being preached to, and if people think SuperWhoLock_Lov3r's beliefs are everything Democrats stand for, I can see apolitical voters rolling their eyes more often than being inspired.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I want to post this for the people who keep saying, "The Senate will just re-hire Mueller":
Adam Schiff‏Verified account @RepAdamSchiff

Adam Schiff Retweeted Donald J. Trump

Fully transparent: @POTUS wants to force Sessions to resign so he can appoint someone to curb Mueller probe. Only works if Senate lets it.
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The Senate needs to agree to do it. This is the same Senate that is fighting desperately to pass an incredibly unpopular health care vote. The same Senate that is bending over backwards to stay on Trump's good side, avoiding saying anything negative about him. The same Senate who is constantly "troubled" yet supports him endlessly.

I don't trust them to re-hire Mueller. Him firing Sessions and appointing someone who will could result in a disaster for this country. The investigation would be effectively dead. The IC would have to take it upon themselves to do the work under direct orders to stop. At that point, the only hope would be the NY Attorney General filing state charges.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Oblivion said:
um not to take away from the gravity of the threat of tens of millions of people potentially losing their health insurance later today but...there is still the matter of my new tag that needs to be addressed

just throwing that out there

no rush or anything
Click to expand...

I didn't know you were a Tingle fan.
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Plinko said:
I want to post this for the people who keep saying, "The Senate will just re-hire Mueller":

The Senate needs to agree to do it. This is the same Senate that is fighting desperately to pass an incredibly unpopular health care vote. The same Senate that is bending over backwards to stay on Trump's good side, avoiding saying anything negative about him. The same Senate who is constantly "troubled" yet supports him endlessly.

I don't trust them to re-hire Mueller. Him firing Sessions and appointing someone who will could result in a disaster for this country. The investigation would be effectively dead. The IC would have to take it upon themselves to do the work under direct orders to stop.
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The senate also doesn't want to have to deal with this and politicians don't want to have to answer constant questions about it. Mueller provided an easy out for them to defer all questions and make it so they didn't have to do any work or get messy doing it.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
balladofwindfishes said:
The senate also doesn't want to have to deal with this and politicians don't want to have to answer constant questions about it. Mueller provided an easy out for them to defer all questions and make it so they didn't have to do any work or get messy doing it.
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I agree to an extent, but many of these Senators are running again soon. Do you think Trump publicly attacking them repeatedly is something they want to deal with during their campaign? Most likely, they go along with his wishes so he leaves them alone. The press asking them questions isn't generally going to hurt them in their districts, especially with a voter base that hates the press.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Plinko said:
I want to post this for the people who keep saying, "The Senate will just re-hire Mueller":


The Senate needs to agree to do it. This is the same Senate that is fighting desperately to pass an incredibly unpopular health care vote. The same Senate that is bending over backwards to stay on Trump's good side, avoiding saying anything negative about him. The same Senate who is constantly "troubled" yet supports him endlessly.

I don't trust them to re-hire Mueller. Him firing Sessions and appointing someone who will could result in a disaster for this country. The investigation would be effectively dead. The IC would have to take it upon themselves to do the work under direct orders to stop. At that point, the only hope would be the NY Attorney General filing state charges.
Click to expand...

If he fires Bobby Three Sticks, I cannot begin to imagine the oppoium that would come out, based on what we already know.
It would eventually become politically unsustainable to pretend nothing happened.
 
N

nature boy

Member
Maggie Haberman‏Verified account @maggieNYT 11m11 minutes ago
More
I asked two ppl close to Trump why he is tormenting Sessions instead of firing him. The answer from both, paraphrased: Because he can.
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Sounds like a nice person
 
S

SeeThree

Member
I think Malcolm Nance joked that if Trump fires Mueller a crate with all the shit they found so far will fall off a truck in front of NYT.
 
B

Blader

Member
I already know the answer to this, but just to torture myself with the question: why would McCain release a statement saying the GOP needs to work with the Dems on a bipartisan healthcare bill then, days later, return to vote yes on MTP with the Republican healthcare bill that everyone hates?
 
B

balladofwindfishes

Member
Pyrokai said:
Wait, wtf? They're voting today on health care?

Fuck. We're fucked.
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No, they're not. They're voting to move onto debate and amendments. Not the bill itself.

JettDash said:
They think they may.
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Which is ridiculous. The best case scenario for them at this point is a tie. And even that's asking a lot (100% of non-Murkowski/Collins need to vote yes)

Blader said:
I already know the answer to this, but just to torture myself with the question: why would McCain release a statement saying the GOP needs to work with the Dems on a bipartisan healthcare bill then, days later, return to vote yes on MTP with the Republican healthcare bill that everyone hates?
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Because McCain has no positions at all and just does whatever everyone else is doing
 
K

Kusagari

Member
If Murkowski is sure everyone else is voting yes, that makes it even more likely she would vote no for her moderate darling credentials.
 
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