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[platypotamus]

Take a knee, run out the clock!

 

[ViperVisor]

In NFL 2K on Dreamcast you could punt the ball sideways and the other team wouldn't get it. You then pick it up and it let you run for a TD.

 

[Patrick Klepek]

This is pretty damn cool. Obama toured a Riddell production facility in Ohio today. My dad's one of the VP's of the company and handed him a custom-made NFL helmet that was designed by my best friend. The helmet's labeled "44."

 

[RiskyChris]

We have such a cool President.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

This is pretty damn cool. Obama toured a Riddell production facility in Ohio today. My dad's one of the VP's of the company and handed him a custom-made NFL helmet that was designed by my best friend. The helmet's labeled "44."

I'm from around that area too!

 

[BigGreenMat]

And THERE'S your problem!

How is it a problem? It will cost LESS THAN WE ARE PAYING NOW!! If you simply shifted all the money we pay now in health insurance costs, copays, etc. to a single payer system we would run a surplus. The only problem is obstructionists who prey on close-minded people and those too dumb to understand it (see wealthy republicans, drug syndicates, healthcare conglomerates, and insurance companies).

 

[Gruco]

More articles coming re: how Geithner is a liability.

 

[platypotamus]

This is pretty damn cool. Obama toured a Riddell production facility in Ohio today. My dad's one of the VP's of the company and handed him a custom-made NFL helmet that was designed by my best friend. The helmet's labeled "44."

Pretty cool for sure!

 

[besada]

How is it a problem? It will cost LESS THAN WE ARE PAYING NOW!! If you simply shifted all the money we pay now in health insurance costs, copays, etc. to a single payer system we would run a surplus. The only problem is obstructionists who prey on close-minded people and those too dumb to understand it (see wealthy republicans, drug syndicates, healthcare conglomerates, and insurance companies).

Yep. It would be cheaper for both companies and citizens. Rather than paying outrageous premiums to private companies, you'd be paying reduced amounts directly to the most efficient health care coverage system in the U.S.

I recommend http://www.hr676.org for more information.

 

[devilhawk]

In NFL 2K on Dreamcast you could punt the ball sideways and the other team wouldn't get it. You then pick it up and it let you run for a TD.

In QB Club 98 you could go offsides and steal the long snap to the punter and the computer would strangely decide to decline the penalty.

More on topic: Does anyone else feel that reforming health care is a useless endeavor? The entire system needs to be revamped. I think it is more likely that a laundry list of band aid fixes will actually be detrimental because it will lessen the chance of real change.

My entire family is in the health care industry so maybe I'm too close to the situation.

 

[RiskyChris]

In QB Club 98 you could go offsides and steal the long snap to the punter and the computer would strangely decide to decline the penalty.

More on topic: Does anyone else feel that reforming health care is a useless endeavor? The entire system needs to be revamped. I think it is more likely that a laundry list of band aid fixes will actually be detrimental because it will lessen the chance of real change.

My entire family is in the health care industry so maybe I'm too close to the situation.

This is absolutely right and exactly why everyone should be in full-on panic mode about the bill's strengthening of the insurance industry.

 

[besada]

More on topic: Does anyone else feel that reforming health care is a useless endeavor? The entire system needs to be revamped. I think it is more likely that a laundry list of band aid fixes will actually be detrimental because it will lessen the chance of real change.

That's part of the problem with an incremental approach. For example, if you expand Medicare to 55 year olds, you've just removed anyone over the age of 55 from the pool of people serious about changing the system. We saw this in the recent MA elections, where health care reform wasn't such a big deal because they already have better health care than the rest of the country. You'll see the same thing happen in Hawaii for the same reason.

Incrementalism in health care reform creates a shrinking pool of supporters for further reform. It's part of the problem now, as so many people are shielded from the real costs of their health care because the majority of their premiums are paid by employers.

Of course, bold changes require bold legislators, and we're mostly out of those.

 

[devilhawk]

Of course, bold changes require bold legislators, and we're mostly out of those.

Historically, I'd argue that bold changes require bad things to happen first. Getting close to the fan isn't motivation enough. SS and Medicare will likely have to hit it first.

 

[besada]

Historically, I'd argue that bold changes require bad things to happen first. Getting close to the fan isn't motivation enough. SS and Medicare will likely have to hit it first.

Except there was no real flashpoint for Medicare itself, just the slow realization we were letting our grandparents die because they couldn't afford care. Why should we do less for our wives, husbands, sons, and daughters.

Part of the problem is the unwillingness of politicians to really treat this as the moral issue it is, and failure on the part of the media to show the real costs of continuing to labor under the current broken system.

 

[empty vessel]

This would literally be the simplest way to do it. Suddenly everyone in the country would be covered by Medicare, at which point you could shut down Medicaid altogether. There would have to be a tax increase, but that's not such a big deal since at that point companies could divest themselves of their existing coverage (should they so desire) and reinvest the massive amount of money they're now paying for health care coverage, either in new equipment or hiring, both of which create jobs.

It's amazing that the simplest change is also the most radical.

And THERE'S your problem!

Except it's not really a problem. The tax increase would be offset by wage increases. Wage increases would even be relatively higher, because of the additional savings that single payer would provide over what employers currently have to pay to private insurance industry.

The problem is perception, politics, and public relations (the manufacture of consent, or dissent in this case), not reality.

 

[Tamanon]

Historically, I'd argue that bold changes require bad things to happen first. Getting close to the fan isn't motivation enough. SS and Medicare will likely have to hit it first.

Means the deficit will definitely never be taken care of until its too late.:lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

How the Democrats may solve their health-care problem

There is no question that Democrats have looked weak in responding to the Massachusetts election. The notion that they would just shelve health care after all they have put into it -- the message they have gotten across, even if that’s not exactly what they have all been saying -- paints a portrait of a party that, to say the least, lacks persistence and conviction.

But there is a good reason behind all the confusion. The core problem is that the House Democrats no longer trust the Senate Democrats. And let’s be honest: There is no reason in the world for House Democrats to trust the Senate Democrats at this point, or even to feel very kindly disposed toward them.

That’s why there is resistance in the House to the most straightforward solution, which is for the House to pass the Senate health-care bill and send it to the president, and then to use the reconciliation process (which requires only 51 votes in the Senate) to pass the changes in the bill that House and Senate negotiators have agreed to -- or, at least, as many of those changes as is procedurally possible. They can’t get all the changes into law that way, but they could get a lot of them.

The catch is that the House Democrats don’t believe the Senate Democrats will necessarily keep their word and pass the reconciliation bill containing the amendments. And it’s not only the question of trust: anyone who has watched the Senate for the last year can be forgiven for wondering if it is even functional enough (given Republican obstruction and a lack of cohesion in the Democratic caucus) to keep a promise sincerely made.

So here’s an idea, I have been told reliably, that leaders of both Houses are considering: The House would pass a version of the reconciliation bill containing the various amendments and send it to the Senate. The Senate would change it slightly (in ways that the House agreed to), which would require the House to vote on it again. Only after it got the revised reconciliation bill would the House take up the Senate bill. The House could then pass both bills and send both to the president. Problem solved, health-care passes, and we move on.

Not all the difficulties with this scenario have been worked through, and it is not a slam dunk. For one thing, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi faces a revolt on her left against passing the Senate bill without changes. Some may still have to be persuaded to make sure it gets the votes it needs. There are also some House Democrats from moderate-to-conservative districts who are wary, after Massachusetts, of voting for a health-care bill, period. And there are a lot of procedural issues that need to be ironed out.

Nonetheless, for those (and I’m one of them) who believe in health-care reform -- and who think the Democrats would be committing suicide if they gave up on health care now -- it’s heartening to hear that serious people are making serious efforts to get a health bill through. In a pinch, I think that enacting the Senate bill into law without changes is far preferable to passing nothing. But I also understand that there are aspects of the Senate bill to which House members have legitimate objections. Solving this problem will require Democrats to pull themselves together across many lines of division -- notably between the House and the Senate, and between moderates and liberals. Can they do it? The answer to that question depends in part on leadership from President Obama. Can he do it?

Sounds like at least the leadership are working together toward something.

 

[Tamanon]

This is just sounding more and more like a hostage trade.

 

[The Librarian]

Sounds like at least the leadership are working together toward something.

Sounds good to me and it would be a good way to wrap the entire thing up.

I've been wondering, though: How long would it take to write up a reconciliation bill?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

edit-SPOOKS!

 

[Tamanon]

.

 

[platypotamus]

This is just sounding more and more like a hostage trade.

I don't know if it's more disturbing that your description is accurate, or that your description sounds like an improvement in the process.

 

[Milabrega]

Not in the least bit :lol

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Also, did anyone see Jon Stewart tear Keith Olbermann a new asshole? Hoooooooly shit he went after him for 15 minutes. :lol :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

This is just sounding more and more like a hostage trade.

That's what it's been all along. But the House and Senate had agreed to a wide array of compromises in their negotiations - the whole package had been sent to the CBO. So they could - could! - just carve out the portions that are eligible for reconciliation and bundle them up.

We'll see. Seems like the possibility is getting stronger as the week goes on.

 

[Diablos]

That's what it's been all along. But the House and Senate had agreed to a wide array of compromises in their negotiations - the whole package had been sent to the CBO. So they could - could! - just carve out the portions that are eligible for reconciliation and bundle them up.

We'll see. Seems like the possibility is getting stronger as the week goes on.

I'm not expecting anything to happen at this point. I think Obama will indirectly state at his SOTU that real HCR is being put on the backburner indefinitely. The best we can expect at this point are specific things being passed in smaller bills, and being branded as "reform" so Obama can save face.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm not expecting anything to happen at this point.

Shocking.

 

[The Librarian]

Shocking.

:lol

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Could we get reconciliation through by adding the medicare buy-in and expanding the poverty level to 200%?

 

[Diablos]

Shocking.

Oh here we go again. Come on, Obama's health plan just got punched in the gut. Enough damage control already. The instant you get the slightest indication that both chambers are communicating again, you revert back. :lol

 

[zou]

I see people say this all the time but can't figure out why. We are a different nation than many in Europe. We have a different history, so why compare us to those "other" nations?

You seriously can't be this dumb. Even for you this a new level of stupid. And I think everyone will agree that you have been trying really hard. I wonder how many brain aneurysms your mental garbage has been responsible for.

This can be your "If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college", embrace it.

 

[Oblivion]

Also, did anyone see Jon Stewart tear Keith Olbermann a new asshole? Hoooooooly shit he went after him for 15 minutes. :lol :lol

I'm a big fan of Olbermann but that segment really was gold. :lol

 

[TestOfTide]

Just wondering, but in the case that somehow the house dems do manage to agree and pass the senate bill, just how quickly would the reconciliation be able to be applied. Would they be able to get the reconciliation done before, say, a bunch of people who happen to have cadilac taxes end up having to pay the 40% excise tax (even if only for one payment)?

 

[GhaleonEB]

Oh here we go again. Come on, Obama's health plan just got punched in the gut. Enough damage control already. The instant you get the slightest indication that both chambers are communicating again, you revert back. :lol

Damage control? Have you read any of my posts since the election? :lol The Dems are flopping around like dying fish and Obama is sitting back watching.

But there's been an unmistakable shift in the tenor, from uncontrolled panic to a narrow selection of options that are being debated, with multiple reports of leadership sketching out a path forward. And while I've posted about those developments, I've caveatted with comments such as, "We'll see," because I want to see action before drawing conclusions. You have no such restraint; it's all panic all the time.

The hurdles reform has cleared are still fresh in my mind. The bill(s) have been pronounced dead or near dead over a dozen times now. I maintain what I've said since the very beginning: something will pass; it might be shitty. So, we'll see.

 

[soul creator]

Just wondering, but in the case that somehow the house dems do manage to agree and pass the senate bill, just how quickly would the reconciliation be able to be applied. Would they be able to get the reconciliation done before, say, a bunch of people who happen to have cadilac taxes end up having to pay the 40% excise tax (even if only for one payment)?

if I recall correctly, the excise tax related stuff wouldn't even start until years from now anyway

 

[Kuan]

I maintain what I've said since the very beginning: something will pass; it might be shitty. So, we'll see.

I agree. If something passes, even if it sucks, the Dems can try to color it nice. Since the bill won't have any noticeable effects for a few years this should be possible. But if nothing passes, the Republicans can tout it as an enormous victory. It's a possible loss vs. definite loss scenario.

Dems should pull back health care, reach out to Republicans (again) and remind the nation that they are the party of "no" (again). Best shot at a decent mid-term election result in my opinion.

 

[Diablos]

Damage control? Have you read any of my posts since the election? :lol The Dems are flopping around like dying fish and Obama is sitting back watching.

But there's been an unmistakable shift in the tenor, from uncontrolled panic to a narrow selection of options that are being debated, with multiple reports of leadership sketching out a path forward. And while I've posted about those developments, I've caveatted with comments such as, "We'll see," because I want to see action before drawing conclusions. You have no such restraint; it's all panic all the time.

The hurdles reform has cleared are still fresh in my mind. The bill(s) have been pronounced dead or near dead over a dozen times now. I maintain what I've said since the very beginning: something will pass; it might be shitty. So, we'll see.

I really haven't been spazzing since it was pretty obvious that Coakley fucked up. Simply stating that since we've been at the "1 yard line" for eons now, I don't expect this latest development to mean anything.

 

[TestOfTide]

But there's been an unmistakable shift in the tenor, from uncontrolled panic to a narrow selection of options that are being debated, with multiple reports of leadership sketching out a path forward.

The fact that there was any panic in the first place should tell you that the Dems are so badly organized that they didn't even have a firmly secured plan B. Either that, or somehow the democrats have managed to do a 180 flip from being a party that can't even unify on most basic of plans to a party that is not only as unified as the republicans, but able to make democrats put up a facade of weakness.

This is the same party that just assumed Leiberman would go along with everything as planned, and when he didn't, they had to waste more time just to get all the votes.

 

[Dupy]

I really haven't been spazzing since it was pretty obvious that Coakley fucked up. Simply stating that since we've been at the "1 yard line" for eons now, I don't expect this latest development to mean anything.

Is this a joke? Today alone you've gone on like 8 rants about how bad things are and how hopeless it all is. Honestly your posts are starting to sound like a certain other poster who mistakenly gets his string pulled every few days.

 

[platypotamus]

Is this a joke? Today alone you've gone on like 8 rants about how bad things are and how hopeless it all is. Honestly your posts are starting to sound like a certain other poster who mistakenly gets his string pulled every few days.

Lets not say things that we can't take back now...

 

[Gruco]

The funniest part is, whatever the Democrats do under "plan B" probably will be almost identical to what would have happened under plan A had Croakley won.

Thanks for freaking out, guys.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Sounds like at least the leadership are working together toward something.

Perfect opportunity for the progressive caucus to get something done...will they do it

 

[The Librarian]

The funniest part is, whatever the Democrats do under "plan B" probably will be almost identical to what would have happened under plan A had Croakley won.

Thanks for freaking out, guys.

The cycle of PoliGAF. Remember when the PO was first cut from the Senate bill and everyone was like "OMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then proceeded with lots of doom and gloom posts? Then that afternoon everyone was like "Oh, hey, this is a good compromise!"

 

[teiresias]

It's very annoying though that after all the freaking time and changes and concessions to try and get something passed in the Senate they're going to go ahead and use reconciliation anyway when they could have just gone ahead and done it with something much stronger to start with.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

The cycle of PoliGAF. Remember when the PO was first cut from the Senate bill and everyone was like "OMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then proceeded with lots of doom and gloom posts? Then that afternoon everyone was like "Oh, hey, this is a good compromise!"

We've kind of been averaging down ever since then.

 

[RiskyChris]

The cycle of PoliGAF. Remember when the PO was first cut from the Senate bill and everyone was like "OMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then proceeded with lots of doom and gloom posts? Then that afternoon everyone was like "Oh, hey, this is a good compromise!"

The proper response is to freak out over both plan A and B since they are both deplorable.

 

[Pimpwerx]

The cycle of PoliGAF. Remember when the PO was first cut from the Senate bill and everyone was like "OMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then proceeded with lots of doom and gloom posts? Then that afternoon everyone was like "Oh, hey, this is a good compromise!"

Who did? If it's not obvious enough, this thread is out of line with the rest of the public. I sure wasn't one of those that changed my opinion. Killing the PO and not killing the mandate was such an obvious loser in this economy, I don't what they were thinking. If they pass a bill with no PO and the mandate still intact, Dems will bleed this year. The "pass anything" mentality was not the majority opinion outside of this thread. PEACE.

EDIT: Dean called for use of reconciliation to pass a stronger bill months ago. The DNC needs that guy back bad.

 

[WickedAngel]

The cycle of PoliGAF. Remember when the PO was first cut from the Senate bill and everyone was like "OMGWTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" then proceeded with lots of doom and gloom posts? Then that afternoon everyone was like "Oh, hey, this is a good compromise!"

...and the people who were freaking out predicted exactly what would happen and it happen. The Democrats sacrificed a huge bullet point and we all knew that nothing was sacred if they were willing to drop that. After the PO was dropped, every other compromise was dropped as well.

 

[The Librarian]

...and the people who were freaking out predicted exactly what would happen and it happen. The Democrats sacrificed a huge bullet point and we all knew that nothing was sacred if they were willing to drop that. After the PO was dropped, every other compromise was dropped as well.

Nobody was predicting anything, everyone was just freakin' out. Those that weren't freaking out considered the PO dead long before that day, and they were right in expecting that. HCR reform was much more than just the PO.

 

[WickedAngel]

Nobody was predicting anything, everyone was just freakin' out. Those that weren't freaking out considered the PO dead long before that day, and they were right in expecting that. HCR reform was much more than just the PO.

Yes, I was.

...and in all likelihood, we've lost most of the rest of it as well. Feel free to take your blinders off any time now.