yikes
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PR: COLECO to release Chameleon, console that focuses on new cartridge games
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
yikes
ultrazilla
Member
I'm not sure how *anyone* could/would want to work with him after all this mess.
Wait, why's this also happening?
Mike Kennedy is the publisher of RETRO.
CoolZombie360
Member
Does anyone know if Woita is still on board with this or did he go the way of Carlsen after the last debacle?
Wow. A bloody harsh outcome.
panda-zebra
Banned
SerTapTap
Member
RetroVGS, overpriced and underfeatured as it was, was the "right way," but it wasn't good enough. So I guess he went all in, coleco name, ALL THE CONSOLES, fake prototypes, toy fair.
Honestly I'm impressed/disgusted how far he got away with it, there was a LOT of media coverage of coleco chameleon and almost all of it failed to mention basic facts like Coleco being a shell company and the whole thing being a rebrand of an extremely underfunded crowdfunding project.
This thing possibly could have had a successful Kickstarter if they managed to hide their fakes better. Lotta people willing to believe this crap.
Devilgunman
Member
Patrick gave a hint from his latest post. Look like Mike is certainly doing some shady business, enough to drive his staff away.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Wasn't there some behind the scenes unknown hardware developer codenamed "Li" that was doing the majority of the hardware engineering? I guess that could still be Woita. I wouldn't want to publicly associate myself with Mike anyways. Everyone who did got burned.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Except he says he hold no ill will towards him in the same post.
Since it's being discussed anyway, might as well quote the post here for clarity:
(emphasis and ellipsis mine)Former RETRO magazine writer said:
Edit: Beaten by the entire time it took me to post D:
Risible
Member
"I am incredibly choosy who I do business with and if or when I make a business split it is because I'm not comfortable with how those people are conducting business at that time."
He also implies that shady shit is going on if I'm reading this correctly.
SerTapTap
Member
It basically reads as "It's not mike, but it's mike" to me. I guess you can realize working with someone is a poor business decision without exactly holding ill will against them.
No, it's just as he says: Mike Kennedy has been good to him personally but he can no longer be associated with him. No need to read between the lines.
The man is so toxic that even people he has had good relations with have to distance themselves from him lest their reputation also be tainted by his scam.
Yeah, he's basically saying it's not a personal spat in which anyone's feelings got hurt, but that Mike is overall a terrible businessman and a shitty person he can't work with anymore on a professional level. Still, his behavior with this console endeavor and how he must be in his day to day life... they can't be mutually exclusive. People who met him say he's "nice" but what does that even mean? The months of shit revolving RVGS and Chameleon say more about his true character.
Anyway I'm relieved the guy is being really honest and didn't leave it on a vague note or go the default "for personal reasons" excuse for leaving the mag.
Anyway I'm relieved the guy is being really honest and didn't leave it on a vague note or go the default "for personal reasons" excuse for leaving the mag.
They're probably not. I'm sure he can be very charming to people especially when he wants something from them but has no shame lying to and dicking over his business partners and throwing them under the bus them to further his goals. He's a classic manipulator.
After the Indiegogo failed and he alienated kevtris he could have sold the Jaguar moulds to recoup some of his costs and moved on. Instead he pushed on and doubled down on his lies. That alone gives a fascinating insight into his mind.
Dreamwriter
Member
I really doubt that he could have easily sold the molds. The previous owner put them on eBay, nobody bought them, Mike ended up getting a great deal by lowballing the guy in person. See, a big problem is the cost to ship them anywhere is extremely expensive, and they are too heavy to move around without at least a hand-truck. And of course you need an industrial injection-mold company to make any real use out of them (unless you want to try and make Jello Jaguars or something).
Yeah, I think Mike is the only person on the planet that would have bought those molds. I cannot think of a reason someone else would ever buy them.
NoFaceNico
Member
I always thought it would be great to donate them to a video game museum. They could put glass over them and make them into coffee tables in a lounge.
The Jaguar still has a loyal following with a decent homebrew scene so different colour system shells and cartridge cases for new releases would sell. I think he did a run of them a year ago so he's already made some of his money back. Point remains that he could have cut his losses and stopped after the initial failure but he didn't.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
After re-watching the John Carlsen video, I forgot how laughably bad it is. Holy shit, this thing stinks. I know the RVGS was already circling the toilet when John released this video, but damn, it certainly did not help at all. It looks just as fake as anything Mike has associated himself with on this project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzJb22Buvbk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzJb22Buvbk
Ninja Scooter
Member
From the beginning it felt like this guy thought having fucking Jaguar molds was like 80% of the battle in creating a new console. This all started with those fucking molds.
IrishNinja
Member
...i can't be the only one getting weird dave halverson vibes at this point
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
I had the same thought yesterday.
He is clearly wayyyy in over his head and keeps bullshitting and delaying hoping that things will fall into place. I'm guessing he thinks if he could just get all of that Kickstarter money, it would make all of his problems go away. But, of course, it won't. Dude doesn't know what the fuck he's doing without a million dollars. He won't know what the fuck to do with a million, either.
yea, the machine shop that had the molds eventually took ownership of them, when the dental company was done with them. That's when they went on ebay and didn't sell, then Mike contacted them to buy them with cash.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
Here is Mike after he overpaid for the molds:
Here is the person that sold the molds to him:
My impression is that he got them at a discount, considering the eBay auction didn't sell. And that money was made back selling replacement shells.
Honestly, if you're in a position that you can utilize these things and sell new colors of legacy shells, doesn't seem like a bad thing to have. Probably should have left it at that, maybe tried to adapt them as like a Ras Pi case or something at most.
I imagine he did okay with the shells but there are only so many Jag fans out there and an even smaller number looking to modify their original hardware. So the revenue dried up and that's when he got the brilliant, not at all terrible idea to use them for a new console.
Or he always knew the market for shells was going to be small and had this silly plan in mind from the start. In either case, that market was tapped out and he pushed onward to making a gaming system with no real knowledge on how it's done.
Or he always knew the market for shells was going to be small and had this silly plan in mind from the start. In either case, that market was tapped out and he pushed onward to making a gaming system with no real knowledge on how it's done.
Dreamwriter
Member
He had the plan to make a new cartridge-based game console long before he bought the Jaguar molds. Those were just a bonus. As for the molds, he basically said he got them for a steal from the dental guy, far less than the $6000 they were listed for. He then sold over $10,000 worth of Jaguar shells on AtariAge.
I've read about how the money was made back... but a plan? He had thoughts and wishful aspirations, because there is no way he had carefully planned for months. Otherwise he would have had the backing of a solid team that doesn't put out cardboard, an off the shelf dev board, a SNES Mini and a DVR card as prototypes. A real plan would have at least produced an early prototype a long time ago.
Anyway, gamester from Collectorvision put out a video. He's the guy who was doing the pack-in game and was one of the major supporters before pulling out of this mess. Something interesting to watch on the way home!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgl2fzHjy84
Anyway, gamester from Collectorvision put out a video. He's the guy who was doing the pack-in game and was one of the major supporters before pulling out of this mess. Something interesting to watch on the way home!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgl2fzHjy84
Cool video. A lot of it was about Pat's video so it's kinda longer than it needs to be. I agree that Pat was kinda harsh on news outlets and supporters with regards to CC. But this video also kinda overemphasizes the 'two sides' of the story angle. No way going to Mike directly would have helped.
Takeaways:
- Gamester81 and CollectorVision were just as in the dark about the goings-on as everyone
- They dropped support for the Coleco Chameleon a day or two before the Kickstarter launch, possibly factoring into the delay
- They're worried about their reputation for having been involved, are moving on
Ninja Scooter
Member
And you know all of this has to be true because he's proven to be such a believable guy.
Wow, this interview with Steve Tom Sawyer, who collaborated with Mike Kennedy for years (up until Retro Magazine, where he says he was screwed over by Mike and promptly left) is pretty crazy.
It's not really about the Retro VGS and the Coleco Chameleon (because he left before that was started), but if you want to hear his tale on how Mike Kennedy handled the Magazine, you should listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl754JuG1vw
It's not really about the Retro VGS and the Coleco Chameleon (because he left before that was started), but if you want to hear his tale on how Mike Kennedy handled the Magazine, you should listen to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl754JuG1vw
NoFaceNico
Member
Are you sure the money was made back?? ..... Surely this can't be a bold faced lie....
Working on a video today. We might explore this.
Dreamwriter
Member
He sold them for $45 a piece, at that price he'd only need to sell a little over 200 to make $10,000 (that's not counting the $8 cartridge cases he also sold). Seems like a reasonable number on an Atari collector's fan site. Especially when you consider the cartridge cases, some of those were bought by indie Jaguar developers to sell special versions of their games,
NoFaceNico
Member
Where did the money go?
Wait for the video. All will be answered. From Mike Kennedy himself, no less!
$45 shells and $8 cart shells. Honestly Nico I don't think it's farfetched at all that he made his money back if he got the molds for $1-2K. I'm not saying he made $10k+, but at least breaking even and some extra profit is completely reasonable. Heck, I saw a couple of Gaffers post pics of their shell purchases before. This aspect of the RVGS/Chameleon story is believable and quite removed from the new console shitshow.
bmcphail2008
Member
I don't think anyone knows for sure what Mike paid for the molds or how many he sold other than perhaps Mike and he has less than zero credibility at this point time. While it's possible that he made a small profit or broke even, I recall the original Atari Age thread when he sold these special cases and in that thread, it didn't look like hundreds of cases or cartridges were sold. Indeed, in the first ten days of the preorder, he only had commitments to buy a total of 15 shells and slightly more cartridges.
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/233486-translucent-jaguar-console-pre-orders/page-1
Yes, he accepted orders from elsewhere, but Atari Age was the primary market and I find it hard to believe that hundreds of these were sold. Also, he would have had to sell more than 200 to hit $10K, especially when you factor in the plastic and whatever the facility charged him for setting the run up and manufacturing. It's not like this can be done at home. In short, just like every other claim Mike has made recently, I don't believe that his acquisition of the molds was cheap or profitable.
superNESjoe
Member
It's not just manufacturing and material costs, but other simple things like shipping and packaging. I also find it hard to believe, given the publicly available interest and the obscurity of the Jaguar console, that he sold hundreds of these shells.
He didn't have to sell hundreds to make money. Like I said, I don't believe he sold $10k as Dreamwriter states. But if he only sold a mere 50 console shells and 50 cart shells (not just online, at gaming cons too), that's over $2500. Obviously there are the costs of the materials for the shells and the packaging/shipping, but if Mike paid only a couple thousand at most I don't see how he couldn't have at least broken even + made some extra cash.
This is like the least important and least controversial aspect of this entire story.
This is like the least important and least controversial aspect of this entire story.
bmcphail2008
Member
It's speculation either way, but to me his claims that he paid for the molds simply through the sale of some clear shells raises red flags and I think one of the reasons that he might have been pushing that storyline so hard is that it would give him some credibility with potential backers and investors that there weren't going to be a lot of additional start up costs for the Retro VGS/Chameleon. As Mike kept claiming, just having the shell mold saved potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars (which I think we all realize is BS) and that was most of the battle in Mike's convoluted thinking.
I'm also skeptical that the previous owner of the molds let them go for pennies on the dollar. I recall seeing the auction on Ebay repeatedly for months and I also recall collectors on various forums saying they tried to negotiate with the seller and he was not reasonable or open to anything less than his full asking price. My recollection is that the seller claimed at one point that he had invested tens of thousands of dollars in the molds at auction and that he wanted to recoup that investment. Maybe Mike worked his now legendary powers of persuasion, but I don't think the molds story is uncontroversial given all that has transpired in the last few months and weeks in particular.
So, I've been thinking about it. Mike has been making a series of unforced errors. There was no reason to rebrand and rerelease PR about the Chameleon before it was ready. There was no reason to be at the Toy Fair this year. There was no reason to show a 'prototype' until it was ready, there was no reason to mention a kickstarter until it was ready. There was no reason to show a transparent version of the prototype until it was ready.
Is there really nobody near Mike physically that would tell him, "You know.... you might want to slow down a bit and make sure stuff works."
Is there really nobody near Mike physically that would tell him, "You know.... you might want to slow down a bit and make sure stuff works."
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
That's the weird part. In cases where tight deadlines turn people into lunatics with horrible judgement, I might see this happening. In this case, he should be pretty free to take his time and wait until he's actually got something to show. Does he have some Coleco deadline to meet?