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[Keratay]

No need to derail a thread for a question easily answered by one's own abilities.

It's not a matter of everyone telling one person to go look up a term. It's that there isn't just a single person who wouldn't know what VAC means, so when writing posts you should try to elaborate on terms that people might not understand (if it's the author's intention to let anyone read it). If ten people came in here asking wondering what VAC was, would you ask them all to go look it up? Or would it be better to have one person answer the question here?

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This sounds absolutely absurd, lifetime bans shouldn't be applied to underage-user's accounts. At the same time, if it was in the tournament rules then I suppose it's the player's fault, even if it's a stupid rule.

 

[Marcel]

Maybe don't cheat in games then so you don't run afoul of the arbitrary punishments you're likely to receive. Hard to feel bad. Looks like you'll just have to get a day job like the rest of us, pal.

 

[CookTrain]

Can you tell me how a smurf account effects this competition?

It appears it was the actions on that smurf account that are the issue, I believe? In which case, if you're a demonstrable cheater, back of the queue. Honest people should go first. Unlucky for cheaters, but there we go.

 

[jeffers]

Clara has been cheating for how many years?!

 

[atomic moth]

You do you and I'll do me. If you still have an issue then feel free to use the ignore button

If that’s you doing you then yes, where is the ignore button? I would assume you’d google it for me and everyone else that doesn’t agree with your odd brand of righteousness.

Is there an ignore button on mobile?

 

[Jarsonot]

I assume this is one of those "turn up in person" tournaments, etc. So unless he gets plastic surgery or puts on a comedy fake mustache and glasses I don't think it'll help.

Ooh, can't a case be made that it was the account that was banned, not the person?

Do they have any evidence that he was the one who got the account banned? Like, if my car was used in a robbery, they'd still need to prove I was actually the one using the car...

of course, if it WAS him doing whatever got him banned, then we're back to discussing the original question...

 

[AlephAlpha]

I like how people are like well "people cheat in so and so event and get away with it so why shouldn't this kid". How about instead of just accepting the fact that people cheat and get away with it, you hold people accountable like what is being done here? Sucks for him that he's banned but maybe he shouldn't have cheated in the first place.

Or, you know, have some middle ground in the punishment. There is no need for a lifetime ban in this case.

 

[LordRaptor]

Probably not to be honest since VAC has a lot of other meanings. I was kind of shocked the article didn't mention what it stood for anywhere.

I think its fair enough that if you follow CS:GO as an eSport enough to care about a newstory that has no bearing on the game itself and is solely related to the behaviour of professional players as an eSport, you know what being VAC banned means.

Like if you go read a news report about a cyclist being banned "for doping", you don't need to go on off a tangent describing what that term means.

 

[panty]

Am I supposed to know what the fuck VAC means?

Yes?

 

[Marcel]

Or, you know, have some middle ground in the punishment. There is no need for a lifetime ban in this case.

If you follow other popular multiplayer games you know that these companies and organizers sometimes hand out severe punishments for cheating so maybe that's why you don't cheat in the first place.

 

[Mattenth]

Permanent bans are just shit.

Society (and gamer culture) ought to practice forgiveness more. The US has issues reintegrating criminals, and I think it's because of an inability to forgive.

Why is there a belief that a permanent, lifelong ban is more effective than a ~1-2 year ban? Is there any serious evidence that this is true?

It doesn't matter if he's a kid or not. Permanently banning someone for a simple mistake is just cruel. It's a punishment that lacks compassion and empathy that gamer culture needs.

 

[Euphor!a]

Ooh, can't a case be made that it was the account that was banned, not the person?

Do they have any evidence that he was the one who got the account banned? Like, if my car was used in a robbery, they'd still need to prove I was actually the one using the car...

of course, if it WAS him doing whatever got him banned, then we're back to discussing the original question...

This is not a court of law. You are responsible for your account.

 

[FX-GMC]

I think its fair enough that if you follow CS:GO as an eSport enough to care about a newstory that has no bearing on the game itself and is solely related to the behaviour of professional players as an eSport, you know what being VAC banned means.

Like if you go read a news report about a cyclist being banned "for doping", you don't need to go on off a tangent describing what that term means.

Amen. Some people just gonna whine about something...

I would assume you'd google it for me and everyone else that doesn't agree with your odd brand of righteousness.

 

[mullet2000]

Or, you know, have some middle ground in the punishment. There is no need for a lifetime ban in this case.

But if there's a middle ground I can't make a definitive statement about whether something is right or wrong within 5 seconds of reading about it. I don't like that.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Because it doesn't just affect the cheater. Why should they be free to act with impunity when people who stuck it out honestly get left out in the cold? Much like major sports, it sets an abysmal example for people to follow. Don't worry about taking shortcuts, it'll blow over and you can get right back to it.

As long as we're talking about professional sports, there are countless examples of athletes doing terrible things and still being allowed to play because teams value their ability to perform at a high level over their moral compass. I don't know the circumstances of this kid's cheating, but if he has the ability to perform at a high level on LAN now, that's not going to be because he used cheats in the past. That's really all professional teams care about; how good are you? If he makes a pro team, it's because he's demonstrably better without cheats than the other players trying to make that team.

 

[Marcel]

Permanent bans are just shit.

Society (and gamer culture) ought to practice forgiveness more. The US has issues reintegrating criminals, and I think it's because of an inability to forgive.

Why is it that a permanent, lifelong ban is more effective than a ~1-2 year ban?

A cheating ban in a video game has nothing to do with criminal law and no amount of mental gymnastics by you or anyone else changes that.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

There should be a zero tolerance policy for cheaters. This was the proper response.

It's getting easier to track which people we give tolerance policies to.

 

[Mattenth]

A cheating ban in a video game has nothing to do with criminal law and no amount of mental gymnastics by you or anyone else changes that.

Forgiveness isn't about criminal conduct; it's a community exercise. Justice and fairness are concepts that aren't limited to the legal system.

I think it's wrong to give lifelong bans to people. It's a move that permanently ostracizes them from communities they care about. I would rather be part of a gaming community that practices forgiveness and understands that people sometimes make bad decisions.

 

[CookTrain]

As long as we're talking about professional sports, there are countless examples of athletes doing terrible things and still being allowed to play because teams value their ability to perform at a high level over their moral compass. I don't know the circumstances of this kid's cheating, but if he has the ability to perform at a high level on LAN now, that's not going to be because he used cheats in the past. That's really all professional teams care about; how good are you? If he makes a pro team, it's because he's demonstrably better without cheats than the other players trying to make that team.

And as above, I think that's a truly terrible example to set for everyone. You don't have to be honest, you just have to win. Win big enough, and it all fades into the noise. I get why professional sports are conducted that way, there's too much money and influence in it. That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it the model that eSports should follow.

You cheat? You're out. You don't get a second chance at the expense of another person's first chance.

 

[Keratay]

I think its fair enough that if you follow CS:GO as an eSport enough to care about a newstory that has no bearing on the game itself and is solely related to the behaviour of professional players as an eSport, you know what being VAC banned means.

Like if you go read a news report about a cyclist being banned "for doping", you don't need to go on off a tangent describing what that term means.

Or maybe I'm just interested in the development of esports in general and have no interest in CS:GO and thus no idea of what VAC means? There are other games out there besides CS:GO.

Last post I'll make on this, I guess. This discussion is getting way too off topic.

 

[Spman2099]

Sounds like your complaints would be better addressed to the OP.

I think it is an innocent enough mistake to make, I wouldn't go out of my way to criticize the OP for making it. You, on that other hand, were being a bit of an egregious knob, so I thought you were more deserving of the criticism.

 

[FX-GMC]

And as above, I think that's a truly terrible example to set for everyone. You don't have to be honest, you just have to win. Win big enough, and it all fades into the noise. I get why professional sports are conducted that way, there's too much money and influence in it. That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it the model that eSports should follow.

You cheat? You're out. You don't get a second chance at the expense of another person's first chance.

Agreed on all counts. Professional sports aren't the model we want to look to in cases like this.

I think it is an innocent enough mistake to make, I would go out of my way to criticize the OP for making it. You, on that other hand, were being a bit of an egregious knob, so I thought you were more deserving of the criticism.

lol. You would think this was the first time someone has been told to google something. Didn't mean to trigger so many people but the fallout is making me laugh. Swift judgement because of hurt feelings.

Thanks for laughs, internet champion..

Not interested in petty titles. You can keep those to yourself.

 

[atomic moth]

Amen. Some people just gonna whine about something...

Haha. The irony on display here is tremendous. Thanks for laughs, internet champion.


Also I cheated in little league once.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

And as above, I think that's a truly terrible example to set for everyone. You don't have to be honest, you just have to win. Win big enough, and it all fades into the noise. I get why professional sports are conducted that way, there's too much money and influence in it. That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it the model that eSports should follow.

You cheat? You're out. You don't get a second chance at the expense of another person's first chance.

He didn't cheat in an event though. He cheated before he ever went pro. It's like banning someone from the MLB draft because they threw spitballs playing ball in the park.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

You should be banned from going on Jeopardy if you ever cheated in a casual quiz game. Fairs fair.

 

[Clipse]

Lifetime ban seems a little much, but okay. He’s still young though, plenty of time to find another career.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Nah. Would have been quicker for you to type 3 letters into a search bar than ask in a forum thread.

Hey what if OPs had context or something.

crazy i know

 

[Podge293]

Shouldn't have cheated. Glad they're taking the hardline approach

 

[ScaryShark]

It appears it was the actions on that smurf account that are the issue, I believe? In which case, if you're a demonstrable cheater, back of the queue. Honest people should go first. Unlucky for cheaters, but there we go.

The actions took place on an account that had nothing to do with the professional scene. This is an inane technicality and blanket rule that wasn't well thought out.

A ban for 'cheating' should be reserved for someone who does something against the rules, in a competitive setting, to get an advantage. That is how it is handled in any other sport. That wasn't the case here.

This is like Lebron being banned for life, from the NBA, because he took Nike money as an 'amateur'. It's irrelevant to the actual competition he is now in.

 

[arts&crafts]

I know what a "Smurf" account is, but why is it called a "Smurf" account?

 

[Spman2099]

lol. You would think this was the first time someone has been told to google something. Didn't mean to trigger so many people but the fallout is making me laugh. Swift judgement because of hurt feelings.

Point taken... you were being unoriginally obnoxious.

 

[Skiptastic]

Sounds dumb to me. He was a kid who made a mistake. He's an adult now and not cheating. Let him play.

 

[Marcel]

Forgiveness isn't about criminal conduct; it's a community exercise. Justice and fairness are concepts that aren't limited to the legal system.

I think it's wrong to give lifelong bans to people. It's a move that permanently ostracizes them from communities they care about. I would rather be part of a gaming community that practices forgiveness and understands that people sometimes make bad decisions.

If you can't conform to the codes of conduct set for you by tournament organizers or the corporations who own the games then maybe you shouldn't be competing at the professional level. The player will have plenty of time to think about a day job now.

 

[Reani]

-so kid wants to be cool in high school and plays with cheats, gets banned.
-some time later he is becoming more mature, realizes he is actually doing really good even without them. eventually becomes a professional player, no hacks in sight.
-"but you hacked in high school!" says the audience and kid gets banned.

what lesson should he learn from this? the one he already learned when he got first ban? and then just fuck you forever?

this is super petty and this ban serves absolutely no purpose.

 

[LordRaptor]

Or maybe I'm just interested in the development of esports in general and have no interest in CS:GO and thus no idea of what VAC means? There are other games out there besides CS:GO.

Okay, but then "I like news stories about eSports but have no frame of reference to any terminology used" brings up
What's CS:GO?
What is VAC?
What is WESG?
Who are VNT?

and yeah, "why don't you find out before posting your opinion then?" becomes a somewhat understandable response

 

[CraigerGamer]

And as above, I think that's a truly terrible example to set for everyone. You don't have to be honest, you just have to win. Win big enough, and it all fades into the noise. I get why professional sports are conducted that way, there's too much money and influence in it. That doesn't make it right and that doesn't make it the model that eSports should follow.

You cheat? You're out. You don't get a second chance at the expense of another person's first chance.

If you get caught cheating in a professional game, you should be banned. Maybe not a lifelong one, but the punishment should be severe. But, a kid creating an alt account and fucking around with cheats well before he became pro does not deserve a ban, especially when there is no evidence (yet) that the cheating occurred in the game he currently competes in.

Conspiracy theories abound are saying this was dug up because they beat Virtus Pro, a very popular, world-renowned team. And the company behind the tournament found a way to keep VP in through some shady research and questionable sources. I have no link on this so take it for what it is, but that's the noise surrounding this whole thing.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I know what a "Smurf" account is, but why is it called a "Smurf" account?

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/smurf_account

 

[CookTrain]

He didn't cheat in an event though. He cheated before he ever went pro. It's like banning someone from the MLB draft because they threw spitballs playing ball in the park.

I'm not familiar enough with baseball to know how severe spitballs are, so I'm not really sure how to react to the analogy. In keeping with the thread, allow me to google the term.

...

Ah, so modifying the trajectory using... well yes. Ok. I don't know if I agree with the comparison there. I'd put it a good deal above playing in the park. That's more akin to private server land. It would at least be in the realm of organised sport. Should you get docked from the draft if you cheated in the lower strata? I believe so, but hey, that's me.

Again, not super familiar with baseball, so I'm not sure if I've got a good grip on that context.

 

[DorkyMohr]

The actions took place on an account that had nothing to do with the professional scene. This is an inane technicality and blanket rule that wasn't well thought out.

A ban for 'cheating' should be reserved for someone who does something against the rules, in a competitive setting, to get an advantage. That is how it is handled in any other sport. That wasn't the case here.

This is like Lebron being banned for life, from the NBA, because he took Nike money as an 'amateur'. It's irrelevant to the actual competition he is now in.

If I commited a felony in conneticut that shouldn’t have anything to do with my life in montana.

 

[arts&crafts]

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/smurf_account

Interesting. The more you know.

 

[LOLCats]

Ya do not agree. Player was a kid and probably should have been banned accordingly, for example banned until age 18.


My opinions about esports are probably out there, here is one.


How the fuck do you become a subject matter expert/professional without understanding the vulnerabilities of your trade. I would not be surprised to learn that all high level esports players have tried hacks and cheats for the sole purpose of understanding them. I dont know much about CS:GO really... is there a way to run a private server to test these things?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Interesting. The more you know.

Also, in the references - http://classic.battle.net/war2/glossary.shtml

Pretty cool

 

[mullet2000]

Personally, I think if a kid gets caught with weed at 14, he should have drug charges on his record for life.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Should have planned ahead.

 

[JambiBum]

Or, you know, have some middle ground in the punishment. There is no need for a lifetime ban in this case.

Nah. Middle ground punishments are how you get people who want to cheat again in different ways so that they don't get caught the next time around. If you start banning people for life from something it acts as a deterrent for people who might want to follow in their footsteps. This kid isn't facing prison time or anything ridiculous like that, he can find something else to spend his time on. What's to say he got to where he is now without cheating? Want to continue playing a game professionally? Don't cheat. It's pretty simple.

There are plenty of videos out there with pro players in CS cheating. Hopefully if people start seeing more pro players getting banned for it then they'll stop. Or they won't and they'll risk their career to cheat.

 

[ScaryShark]

If I commited a felony in conneticut that shouldn’t have anything to do with my life in montana.

You're comparing a 15-year old's cheating in a video game with a criminal felony? The hell? Keep with the sport analogies, they actually makes sense.

 

[autoduelist]

Conversely, they're taking up a slot for someone else to make a source of income who didn't cheat. So hey ho.

High level competition is not a 'slot'. In theory, you want the best in the world. Obviously, bans for cheating are important. But banning someone from an entire occupation - especially one they are skilled at - for an act they did at 15 seems a bit much.

I honestly find the ease with which some of you hand out life long sentences a bit disturbing.

 

[Marcel]

Personally, I think if a kid gets caught with weed at 14, he should have drug charges on his record for life.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Private groups and organizations set the rules for who competes and what conduct is expected of them. This has nothing to do with criminal law, smart guy. Your comparison is stupid.

 

[snail_maze]

Don't actual athletes only get temp banned from events if they get caught doping? This seems harsh

 

[FX-GMC]

Point taken... you were being unoriginally obnoxious.

Do you have anything to contribute or are you simply here to "teach me a lesson" on telling someone to google something?

 

[DocSeuss]

You should 100% be denied from ever competing professionally if you cheat. It's a deterrent.