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[serversurfer]

Well it will depend on the game I'm guessing. As the main use for alternative output will be multiplayer. So sending headset display then would be a dick move

Not necessarily. I was imagining an Iron Man game where Tony wore the Morpheus, and a second player played as JARVIS on the TV, painting targets, unlocking doors, etc. With the new ability to display something different on the TV, the JARVIS player can have their own command interface displaying on the TV, along with a picture-in-picture view showing what Tony is seeing right now, to help JARVIS stay up to speed. Anything JARVIS needs to say would be picked up by the mic on the Camera and piped to Tony's headphones, loud and clear over the explosions and such.

 

[DHC-Shannow]

I think eyetracking and foveated rendering will be the next huge things for second generation VR.
Last year at GDC Sony already showed some pretty good eye tracking demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYr9MaZw3I

Now put that in a VR headset, track what people are looking at, render only that part of the screen in high res(saves a ton of performance) and use it as additional input device.

I don't think Sony will have it ready for launch of Morpheus, but the second gen of Morpheus could see this. And then VR will be truly epic. It will also solve the problem of the Ps4 not beeing that powerful, because foveated rendering really frees up a ton of performance.

Apparently the woman lead designer of the Fove headset which does have eye tracking used to work for Sony. Not sure what happened, maybe Sony didnt think the tech was good enough yet.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think eyetracking and foveated rendering will be the next huge things for second generation VR.
Last year at GDC Sony already showed some pretty good eye tracking demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYr9MaZw3I

Now put that in a VR headset, track what people are looking at, render only that part of the screen in high res(saves a ton of performance) and use it as additional input device.

I don't think Sony will have it ready for launch of Morpheus, but the second gen of Morpheus could see this. And then VR will be truly epic. It will also solve the problem of the Ps4 not beeing that powerful, because foveated rendering really frees up a ton of performance.

Chris Kohler from Wired said in a podcast that he demo'd a version of Morpheys with eye tracking (I want to say last GDC), but the people giving him the demo repeatedly said it was only a prototype. So it is possible now but maybe it would raise the price too much.

 

[Fiveshift]

Chris Kohler from Wired said in a podcast that he demo'd a version of Morpheys with eye tracking (I want to say last GDC), but the people giving him the demo repeatedly said it was only a prototype. So it is possible now but maybe it would raise the price too much.

I think for eye tracking to be effective the FOV needs to be higher than they are planning for the morpheus. I'm really curious if the 1st gen morpheus will be designed to extend fully into the PS5 generation. What do you guys think?

 

[gunslikewhoa]

I think for eye tracking to be effective the FOV needs to be higher than they are planning for the morpheus. I'm really curious if the 1st gen morpheus will be designed to extend fully into the PS5 generation. What do you guys think?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be compatible. I'm sure there will also be a Morpheus 2.0 or whatever available for PS5, though.

 

[Refreshment.01]

You conveniently ignored the second part of my post which mentions that even the Move was created with VR in mind, and that was how long ago?

Believe what you want to believe, I guess. That's your prerogative. I'm sure this is all just a coincidence:

i did not conviniently ignore anything. Due to the nature of it's absolute tracking the Move can and is been used for VR. However, is not a very complete solution since Sony didn't put an input system to abstract movement, either a Dpad or Analogue stick. And if Sony was so forward thinking about VR, then it's obviously the user would be using two moves to simulate hand movements, so omitting those input systems is a hughe obversight.

Why would they include the light bar otherwise (plus insist it being on all the time even with the backlash against it)? Literally the only thing I can think of which has used the tracking from the light is the Playroom demo. C'mon, VR was in the works and they specifically made the DS4 to work as a great trackable controller for VR applications. Console design is done years in advance, so are things like Morpheus. They did not jump on the VR bandwagon, and have even shown them working with early prototypes back before Oculus existed.

Because the "light bar" is a cheap LED for tracking purposes, it doesn't increase the costs too much and can be used for absolute positioning, which can be used outsie of VR applications. And like you said, the main use is the playroom wichi is an AR eyetoy type of use.

Edit: They revealed Morpheus just a few months after launching the console, of course it was in the works in advance. Don't be silly!

They revealed Morpheus in 2014 (corrected) GDC? Wasn't it?

Also you guys are missing the point here. Of course Sony had to be experiementing with VR at some point, like probably Sega and Nintendo at some stage or any other company that has been experimenting with it for decades.

However, the fact that experimentation took place doesn't mean the PS4 is a VR oriented console. If Sony was experimenting since the MOve early stages of development then Sony would have been the one kickstarting (yet again) the new VR push. BUt they simple weren't, there were no talks about it during the specs leak, no talks about it during the unveiling and no talks at launch. And if they were so into VR (since 2009 according to some posts) then it's kind of interesting that they will be probably the lastt to release after Valve and Oculus.

So i stand by my point, they saw the VR brewing and jumped into the bandwagon, else since experimentation were as early as 2009 there would have been a clear VR strategy since the PS4 launch and many supporting titles early on.

 

[stryke]

They revealed Morpheus in 2015 GDC? Wasn't it?

2014

 

[Refreshment.01]

2014

It has been corrected, many thanks.

 

[backbreaker65]

i did not conviniently ignore anything. Due to the nature of it's absolute tracking the Move can and is been used for VR. However, is not a very complete solution since Sony didn't put an input system to abstract movement, either a Dpad or Analogue stick. And if Sony was so forward thinking about VR, then it's obviously the user would be using two moves to simulate hand movements, so omitting those input systems is a hughe obversight.

Because the "light bar" is a cheap LED for tracking purposes, it doesn't increase the costs too much and can be used for absolute positioning, which can be used outsie of VR applications. And like you said, the main use is the playroom wichi is an AR eyetoy type of use.


They revealed Morpheus in 2014 (corrected) GDC? Wasn't it?

Also you guys are missing the point here. Of course Sony had to be experiementing with VR at some point, like probably Sega and Nintendo at some stage or any other company that has been experimenting with it for decades.

However, the fact that experimentation took place doesn't mean the PS4 is a VR oriented console. If Sony was experimenting since the MOve early stages of development then Sony would have been the one kickstarting (yet again) the new VR push. BUt they simple weren't, there were no talks about it during the specs leak, no talks about it during the unveiling and no talks at launch. And if they were so into VR (since 2009 according to some posts) then it's kind of interesting that they will be probably the lastt to release after Valve and Oculus.

So i stand by my point, they saw the VR brewing and jumped into the bandwagon, else since experimentation were as early as 2009 there would have been a clear VR strategy since the PS4 launch and many supporting titles early on.

Hey man they were experimenting with VR before Oculus. They had an early prototype that they released a trailer showing the the set up with the PS MOVE Game Datura. So stop it, ok.

Here's the video from 3 years ago and mind you this is not the original source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l1Bq-9zWvc

 

[Planet]

So Sony has been working on VR for quite some years now, and the PS4 was created with certain VR related features (like e.g. 120 Hz output capability). But the controllers are absolutely not, I repeat, under no circumstances created with VR in mind. Fact. End of discussion.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

So Sony has been working on VR for quite some years now, and the PS4 was created with certain VR related features (like e.g. 120 Hz output capability). But the controllers are absolutely not, I repeat, under no circumstances created with VR in mind. Fact. End of discussion.

Sony originally designed the PlayStation 4's DualShock 4 controller with virtual reality in mind, and that's the reason why it has a lightbar. Speaking with TechRadar, Sony senior designer Jed Ashforth said, "The tracking light… it was our department that said we need that on," he said. "It was for tracking for VR."

The PS4 was released six months ago, and Sony began talking about the system and showing off the controller even before that. This meant Ashforth and the rest of his team had to keep quiet about the real purpose for the DualShock 4's lightbar, even as fans began to wonder.

"When all these things were coming out six months ago and everyone was going 'it's reflecting in my TV,' we were going 'oh no' because we couldn't tell anyone what it was for," he said.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ps...originally-morpheus-vr-tracking/1100-6419509/

 

[Man]

So Sony has been working on VR for quite some years now, and the PS4 was created with certain VR related features (like e.g. 120 Hz output capability). But the controllers are absolutely not, I repeat, under no circumstances created with VR in mind. Fact. End of discussion.

But they are. They have absolute positional tracking built in. Sony designed it with VR in mind. It works great.

 

[boredandlazy]

So Sony has been working on VR for quite some years now, and the PS4 was created with certain VR related features (like e.g. 120 Hz output capability). But the controllers are absolutely not, I repeat, under no circumstances created with VR in mind. Fact. End of discussion.

Did you design it?

 

[mrklaw]

I don't know if we have seen TrackMania in VR in this thread, if not here's some footage of the game. Not in VR of course but from the social screen. Looks good, don't know the language of the guy, if anyone would like to translate feel free.

Thanks to @Machine head
It's Brazilian Portuguese =]

He basically says that Morpheus is very cool and impressive. He felt like he was inside the game, so much so that he got a bit scared once the car took a jump, as he is afraid of heights. He also mentioned that the track was pretty basic, but being able to see everything and everywhere was great in helping with the feeling of immersion.
Not much info, but lots of praising!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VaH48NdCzE

keeping my fingers crossed for Stunt Car Racer style stomach churning on the jumps.

 

[le-seb]

But they are. They have absolute positional tracking built in. Sony designed it with VR in mind. It works great.

Did you design it?

Sarcasms, how do they work?

 

[boredandlazy]

Sarcasms, how do they work?

It only works when other people detect it.

 

[Planet]

It only works when other people detect it.

My sarcasm always fails in that category.

 

[backbreaker65]

She experience Project Morpheus at E3 2015. She played Playroom, Kitchen, EVE, Battlestation in that order in the video starting at 5:24. EVE said the image isn't that sharp which made her have a rough time because it needs to be a little more clearer for precision.

6:50 Device review has a little ways to go image is just not sharp similar to oculus, she thinks gamers will have issues with games where you need to clearly see the images.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQrNv9YsL9c

 

[backbreaker65]

Question asked about RIGS graphic fidelity.
What Gen would you rate the graphics fidelity? PS2, PS2.5, PS3 or PS3.25 or PS3.5?

Good question! It is really weird. When looking at the game on screen (like you are in this vid) the graphics are not quite PS4 but definitely better than PS3. With the helmet on however the quality goes up a notch. Not quite MGS but close to launch day PS4. That may change though because the build I played was pretty early.

 

[Reallink]

Why would they include the light bar otherwise (plus insist it being on all the time even with the backlash against it)? Literally the only thing I can think of which has used the tracking from the light is the Playroom demo. C'mon, VR was in the works and they specifically made the DS4 to work as a great trackable controller for VR applications. Console design is done years in advance, so are things like Morpheus. They did not jump on the VR bandwagon, and have even shown them working with early prototypes back before Oculus existed.

Edit: They revealed Morpheus just a few months after launching the console, of course it was in the works in advance. Don't be silly!

Edit 2 (Sorry): https://youtu.be/pWMp_o03qH4?t=4m57s (4:57 in). Back in 2010 Sony experimenting with VR.

They were no doubt toying with VR, probably perpetually, but they most likely didn't have an affordable, wide FOV, presence evoking solution they realistically expected to take to market anytime soon. That is evidenced pretty well by the HMZ-Tx HMD's demos they did with Move's strapped to them, which were only 45 degrees, nearly $1000, and predate Oculus. Facebook didn't pay $2 billion for Oculus cause every CE manufacturer under the sun had already pieced together the puzzle of phones screens, fish eye lenses, and SW distortion correction. You're being incredibly generous assuming Sony has been sitting on Morpheus for years or just stumbled into it at almost exactly the same time as Palmer and Carmack. Much more likely IMO is that they didn't know what Nintendo and MS were going to do with regards to motion controls, which was obviously still a very big trend when they would have been taping out potential final designs. They were probably just hedging their bets not wanting to be the odd man out if Wii U and/or Xbone launched some radical new motion interface standard.

 

[DavidDesu]

They were no doubt toying with VR, probably perpetually, but they most likely didn't have an affordable, wide FOV, presence evoking solution they realistically expected to take to market anytime soon. That is evidenced pretty well by the HMZ-Tx HMD's demos they did with Move's strapped to them, which were only 45 degrees, nearly $1000, and predate Oculus. Facebook didn't pay $2 billion for Oculus cause every CE manufacturer under the sun had already pieced together the puzzle of phones screens, fish eye lenses, and SW distortion correction. You're being incredibly generous assuming Sony has been sitting on Morpheus for years or just stumbled into it at almost exactly the same time as Palmer and Carmack. Much more likely IMO is that they didn't know what Nintendo and MS were going to do with regards to motion controls, which was obviously still a very big trend when they would have been taping out potential final designs. They were probably just hedging their bets not wanting to be the odd man out if Wii U and/or Xbone launched some radical new motion interface standard.

Please stop.. We get it. Cool. Can't be bothered arguing! It seems to me, with plenty of evidence to back it up the DS4 light bar was very specifically put on there to future proof it for a potential VR use.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Hey man they were experimenting with VR before Oculus. They had an early prototype that they released a trailer showing the the set up with the PS MOVE Game Datura. So stop it, ok.

It's like you didn't read the post you just quoted and this is not meant as a personal attack, because maybe you are doing it unintentionally. Let me try to explain again:

Sony could have been experimenting with VR in the 50's beating Sutherland to the development of an HMD and this wouldn't change that Sony is bandwagoning to the VR trend in this round. Why? Because of commitment plain and simple.

While Sony is a company very innovation driven, their videogame branch is more reactionary than proactive and that has worked fantastically for them, so there's nothing wrong with that. Interestingly, this is all very similar to past events involving Sony and MS. Various examples:

The inclusion of motion sensors in the DS3 was a reactionary Move to the Wii Remote without much of a clear goal going forward.

The move was yet another reaction to the Wii Remote after the Wii was a record breaking success. Do you guys remember at that time that Sony began spreading videos with Dr. Marx and he's experiments? Yes, Sony did have a product and various experiments with motion gaming but that didn't meant they had the commitment to that type of interface until they saw that trend and adapted to it.

MS did something similar. When they were fetching for a motion solution, they first demostrated a wand type of device with motion input, one of their internal experiments. Yet again, that doesn't meant they weren't following a trend.

It is quite curious that they have been experimenting all this years (and this stated with zero sarcasm from my part as the fact has been proven) yet they will arraving later than Occulus and without a more robust answer to Oculus touch. Also there isn't a very VR driven killer app unveiled from their part, which is strange considering the years of experimentation. Most 1st party VR software seems to be typical gaming stuff retrofited to VR.

The company that did present something forward thinking is Valve. We can all agree with that i think.

i would close by saying that this round seems like a triumph for consumer level VR but a hollow victory for creativity. Basically, the tech companies i've seen that wanted to do a VR headset have done a pretty competent job, this is mostly due to the components been mature enough. Even StarBreeze pulled of some very decent HMD and demo.

 

[Planet]

The inclusion of motion sensors in the DS3 was a reactionary Move to the Wii Remote without much of a clear goal going forward.

So you compiled a few examples where Sony followed a trend, and that counts as evidence Sony never setting any themselves? Why do you hate Sony that much to be so blind?

In the first Morpheus reveal it became very clear that Sony has a huge advantage with its trackable controller and Move, and that Oculus Rift has to improve in that area a lot - which they partly did with Oculus Touch, but the inclusion of an Xbox One controller was weak.

this is mostly due to the components been mature enough. Even StarBreeze pulled of some very decent HMD and demo.

They didn't just pull that out of their backside within a short time, they acquired a company experimenting with that for years, allegedly as long as Oculus Rift.

The tech is not just lying there in the shelves for everyone, it is still pioneer days for the youngest approach, which is vastly advanced im comparison to the ancient days you seem to recite often. Affordably high quality VR for the masses had to rest a couple of decades, now it is coming. And everyone working on it does innovate at the moment, often sharing insights, as stated e.g. by Sony and Oculus Rift numerous times.