backbreaker65
Banned
Does anyone know why EA was eager to support Kinect, but wants no parts of Morpheus? I know EA and MS play musical chairs when it comes to swapping Exec, but you at least think EA would explore VR as an option.
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Project Morpheus E3 2015
- Thread starter Man
- Start date
Refreshment.01
Member
You do have a point somewhat but not for the reasons expressed.
One of the reasons for the lack of software you anticipate is due to the limitations of the PS4 platform. It would be very hard to reach the bar of the big games you like in a VR environment even if the big publishers wanted, the PS4 (i think) is not designed with VR in mind. It just needs higher specs.
In my case im always been interested in VR and was impressed with HMD's even when played in 320 resolution. So i would gladly take PS2/PS3 level of graphics fidelity in VR since it's quite more inmersive than any regular PS4 title would ever be.
LookAtMeGo
Member
i don't think you just add VR support to already existing games. While I'm sure it can be done, thats not what we will see with VR. Killzone adding lightgun support is absolutely nothing like adding VR support to the game. AAA support for VR is something more along the lines of the Rigs game or Eve Valkyrie. A game should be built from the ground up with VR in mind and so far it has seen more support than move ever has and it hasnt even released yet. Shit, there are more games available for Morpheus at launch so far then the PS4 had.
backbreaker65
Banned
From everything we have been told to the including of the lightbar on the DS4, the PS4 was designed with VR in mind.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, they better really make and release it.
Refreshment.01
Member
Having a LED in the DS4 doesn't mean the PS4 is designed with VR in mind. That's like saying the X1 was designed with VR in mind since it had Kinect 2 out of the box or that the PS3 was designed with stereo 3D in mind. Sony is a trend follower not a trend setter, their strong point lies in that they are quick to adapt to such trends.
Anyway, i was talking about the processing abilities of the device. Speaking of which, it would have been rather cool and forward thinking for VR if they had made possible to link 2 PS4 consoles for dual rendering.
But what matters is that they have been making an exellent job with morpheus and what they have. i do wonder why they insist in supporting Move when they could come up with a more up to date solution for input in more inmersive VR games. Is not like if you are interested in MOrpheus in the first place you' ll refrain from buying one because it doesn't support your old move controller.
SolidSnakex
Member
How much did EA really support Kinect? Other than them trying to jump on the exercise craze with Sports Active, wasn't it mostly just a bunch of games that had voice commands?
I always love when VR experiences are portrayed as a full body experience when someone is only wearing a headset lol.
Sony has said themselves ps4 was designed with VR in mind anf the light bar was very much apart of that idea. I believe it has even been said they were thinking ahead when they designed move controllers which is why they went with a very low latency. I do agree they should revise move but probably won't to keep cost down.
I was literally going to make a thread about this last night, but I thought someone might have caught it already lol.
EventHorizon
Member
What I think will happen, especially early on, is that the assets of existing games will be repurposed for a VR experience.
I think the use of VR in games will have a much larger impact than the graphical quality (beyond a certain minimum threshold) in determining how good a game is for the next couple of year. While graphical quality is nice, the bigger questions that need to be solved are things like how to handle movement, and what game types work best in VR. As it stands, we don't know what the killer app will be for VR. If someone solves that problem yet has to do it with Minecraft level graphics, it's still going to be a killer app.
Speaking of graphics, Media Molecule and Yoshida have both hinted heavily that Dreams is a Morpheus title. Probably not exclusively a VR game, but it certainly looks far better suited to VR than a flat display, considering you're 3D sculpting. If Morpheus can run games looking like Dreams then we're fine.
Rigs looks good too. As does The Heist. Even Battlezone looks cool. To discuss graphics right now is missing the point of VR. We can certainly focus on graphics in the following generation, and until then PC gamers with a lot of money to spend can maybe try out a few games designed for super high end VR. Fact is the majority of developers will be targeting Morpheus level on PC and console. They're not that far apart.
The immersion will make concerns of photo real flashy graphics a moot point for some time to come. What is being done on PS4 right now, on a closed system where everyone is guaranteed a good experience, is surprisingly impressive given some concerns that we should expect absolutely nothing worthwhile from Morpheus. People are being seriously impressed by it so far be it Rigs, The Heist or the Kitchen.
Rigs looks good too. As does The Heist. Even Battlezone looks cool. To discuss graphics right now is missing the point of VR. We can certainly focus on graphics in the following generation, and until then PC gamers with a lot of money to spend can maybe try out a few games designed for super high end VR. Fact is the majority of developers will be targeting Morpheus level on PC and console. They're not that far apart.
The immersion will make concerns of photo real flashy graphics a moot point for some time to come. What is being done on PS4 right now, on a closed system where everyone is guaranteed a good experience, is surprisingly impressive given some concerns that we should expect absolutely nothing worthwhile from Morpheus. People are being seriously impressed by it so far be it Rigs, The Heist or the Kitchen.
Sony planned to innovate the console market with CD based medium, which was belittled by many in the beginning, because of the loading times, and the assumed lack of benefit for gameplay. Even Sega initially planned on releasing the Saturn with a module slot only. Sony had those plans since the SNES days, so don't count intermediate devices like 3DO, this was driven by Sony.
So Nintendo invented the gamepad with analogue stick for the N64, yes? But why oh why did they internally limit it to a star shaped form, so that you basically still could only use it 8-ways? Sony not only gave their analogue stick 360° freedom, they put 2 on it, which proved very usefull. They weren't the first, but they were the first to do it right - which I don't count as simply "following trends". The first implementation of a light bulb also wasn't the end of innovation in that area.
There is more, but discussing it is probably pointless.
Nightengale
Member
Tales from my arse regarding Dreams :
You can sculpt in VR/Morpheus, but playing it is probably only for regular screens.
If you compare the specs of the PS4 Camera to the specs of the Kinect camera, you'll see that one is very suitable for VR and the other isn't. You could say all of it (including the LED in the DS4) is a coincidence, but I don't believe so.
I think that's how it would launch, too. I don't think they would let user created games for VR just yet. Initially Morpheus play would have to be strictly controlled.
Alx
Member
Yeah I don't remember EA having a specific support of kinect, they did use some of its features ingame, but that came mostly "free" (or at least at a low development cost), since it's a standard feature. While designing a game for VR is much more complex, and for a crowd that is yet to be estimated.
Technicall I think the PS4 camera was more designed with AR in mind, the kind you see in Move party games. Hence the two cameras, one can do fast tracking of the orbs (low exposure and reduced resolution for faster framerate), while the other can capture an image with optimal quality to display. Reliable tracking is also useful for VR indeed and they certainly had it in mind when designing it, but if they had been looking for a pure VR solution, they would probably have chosen IR cameras to track "invisible" markers (like Oculus Rift does).
If the game/whatever it is came with some basic performance analysis tools,there would be no reason to not have VR 'play'. It would be tragic not to have it, honestly. At the very least, the ability to download and look around somebody's 3d space would be interesting. And some basic interaction shouldn't be a big step from that.
DHC-Shannow
Member
In the recent Media Molecule interview they mentioned in response to a Morpheus question that Anton Michielov (sp?) now worked for them and he created the first Morpheus prototype - it seemed a heavy hint that they were heading that way.
The short answer is that Microsoft paid them to use kinect (or more likely gave them free advertising/lower platform fees for software that was 'better with kinect').
If there's a commercial opportunity to make money with Morpheus/VR, then EA will eventually take it.
However, I think EA are more aligned with Microsoft - and I would expect to see more casual titles/AR focus than VR from EA.
Now compare the principle of each and Kinect would win by a landslide because it would make wonders better presence. But of course latency is still king, so in practice Kinect just doesn't work unfortunately. A combination of motion controllers and low latency Kinect tracking would be amazing..
https://twitter.com/mykeryu/status/614246492262416385
https://twitter.com/mykeryu/status/614246854650261504
Pretty sure he's calling out Kotaku's impressions haha.
https://twitter.com/mykeryu/status/614246854650261504
Pretty sure he's calling out Kotaku's impressions haha.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Neuromancer
Member
Presumably in reference to this Gizmodo hit piece
http://gizmodo.com/i-ogled-a-school...2391186#_ga=1.206559251.1036943575.1419283387
serversurfer
Member
Maybe not. I got this tweet from Alex about a year ago:
Although, I suppose you could still be right, and the VR will only be for sculpting. lol That said, I'm guessing VR will be optional, whether sculpting or playing.
The LittleBigPlanet games already had a very crude system. Basically, there was a thermometer that filled up as you added content to your level. Some stuff would fill it a lot, and other stuff, not so much. They could easily do something similar in Dreams. Also, there may be certain effects which are simply unavailable or limited when viewing in VR.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't see any point in letting you create in VR, but not play things in VR. If Dreams is a Morpheus title I believe it'll be Morpheus all the way.
Neuromancer
Member
There's a positive writeup of Futuridium VR from VRFocus:
http://vrfocus.com/archives/18009/preview-futuridium-vr-on-project-morpheus/
backbreaker65
Banned
I don't know if we have seen TrackMania in VR in this thread, if not here's some footage of the game. Not in VR of course but from the social screen. Looks good, don't know the language of the guy, if anyone would like to translate feel free.
Thanks to @Machine head
It's Brazilian Portuguese =]
He basically says that Morpheus is very cool and impressive. He felt like he was inside the game, so much so that he got a bit scared once the car took a jump, as he is afraid of heights. He also mentioned that the track was pretty basic, but being able to see everything and everywhere was great in helping with the feeling of immersion.
Not much info, but lots of praising!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VaH48NdCzE
Thanks to @Machine head
It's Brazilian Portuguese =]
He basically says that Morpheus is very cool and impressive. He felt like he was inside the game, so much so that he got a bit scared once the car took a jump, as he is afraid of heights. He also mentioned that the track was pretty basic, but being able to see everything and everywhere was great in helping with the feeling of immersion.
Not much info, but lots of praising!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VaH48NdCzE
Sounds Portuguese. Can't wait for Trackmania on consoles, with or without VR. Though, thinking of some of the custom maps on PC, not sure I'd want to play those on VR.
So I'm guessing not all games will have the "social screen", do we have any indication of which of the games known so far that have the second screen/social screen feature?
Depends on what you mean. All games will provide some kind of output to the TV. I believe that at the moment. The processing box connecting the Morpheus and TV to the PS4 can unwarp and display what is in the headset at no.overhead by default. Or the developers can send their own output to the TV. (Playroom VR has a good use of this for assymetric gameplay)
Concur
Oh, that's pretty good then. Hope you can select to send the headset display to the TV on all games, even those that can output something else as well.
Yep. They said they've done away with polygons. Not up on my rendering tech but it looks like quite a different style of rendering altogether, so it's pointless us sitting here speculating about how the game will operate. They're showing much more at Paris Games Show so let's wait and see. I'd figure if they're making such a game for Morpheus they won't go into it half arsed. Think this could be the surprise Morpheus hit. If they reach even half of their hyperbollic sounding ambition then it'll be a seriously unique thing to experience.
Well it will depend on the game I'm guessing. As the main use for alternative output will be multiplayer. So sending headset display then would be a dick move
SolidSnakex
Member
Here's another video of someone playing Kitchen
https://www.facebook.com/PlayStationTaiwan/videos/939773122732094/
https://www.facebook.com/PlayStationTaiwan/videos/939773122732094/
Refreshment.01
Member
Sorry but i just don't bite that.
Could the DS4 absolute tracking be applied to VR? Yes. Does that mean Sony planned the PS4 as a VR console? Not necessarily.
Sony is following a trend here. Had this not be the case you would have heard hints of their VR approach since before launch. There wasn't any practical reason to hide the fact. The above are just PR statements (even if they are coming from talented developers), in this case i prefer to follow common sense.
And we agree here? You took my reply out of context, please read Kal2006 post and then one from me that was a reply to him.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
I think eyetracking and foveated rendering will be the next huge things for second generation VR.
Last year at GDC Sony already showed some pretty good eye tracking demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYr9MaZw3I
Now put that in a VR headset, track what people are looking at, render only that part of the screen in high res(saves a ton of performance) and use it as additional input device.
I don't think Sony will have it ready for launch of Morpheus, but the second gen of Morpheus could see this. And then VR will be truly epic. It will also solve the problem of the Ps4 not beeing that powerful, because foveated rendering really frees up a ton of performance.
Last year at GDC Sony already showed some pretty good eye tracking demos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYr9MaZw3I
Now put that in a VR headset, track what people are looking at, render only that part of the screen in high res(saves a ton of performance) and use it as additional input device.
I don't think Sony will have it ready for launch of Morpheus, but the second gen of Morpheus could see this. And then VR will be truly epic. It will also solve the problem of the Ps4 not beeing that powerful, because foveated rendering really frees up a ton of performance.
gunslikewhoa
Member
You conveniently ignored the second part of my post which mentions that even the Move was created with VR in mind, and that was how long ago?
Believe what you want to believe, I guess. That's your prerogative. I'm sure this is all just a coincidence:
Machinehead
Member
It's Brazilian Portuguese =]
He basically says that Morpheus is very cool and impressive. He felt like he was inside the game, so much so that he got a bit scared once the car took a jump, as he is afraid of heights. He also mentioned that the track was pretty basic, but being able to see everything and everywhere was great in helping with the feeling of immersion.
Not much info, but lots of praising!
He basically says that Morpheus is very cool and impressive. He felt like he was inside the game, so much so that he got a bit scared once the car took a jump, as he is afraid of heights. He also mentioned that the track was pretty basic, but being able to see everything and everywhere was great in helping with the feeling of immersion.
Not much info, but lots of praising!
Why would they include the light bar otherwise (plus insist it being on all the time even with the backlash against it)? Literally the only thing I can think of which has used the tracking from the light is the Playroom demo. C'mon, VR was in the works and they specifically made the DS4 to work as a great trackable controller for VR applications. Console design is done years in advance, so are things like Morpheus. They did not jump on the VR bandwagon, and have even shown them working with early prototypes back before Oculus existed.
Edit: They revealed Morpheus just a few months after launching the console, of course it was in the works in advance. Don't be silly!
Edit 2 (Sorry): https://youtu.be/pWMp_o03qH4?t=4m57s (4:57 in). Back in 2010 Sony experimenting with VR.
fallen_dawn
Member
Edit: They revealed Morpheus just a few months after launching the console, of course it was in the works in advance. Don't be silly!
On top of that, weren't there a decent amount of rumours pointing to some sort of Playstation VR before launch? I remember at TGS in 2013 it was speculated that the Playstation VR solution would be shown (in the end we got the PS Vita TV).
As you said, for Sony to reveal Morpheus when they did, a lot of work would have gone into it beforehand.