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[Seanspeed]

Is there any reason that Sony couldn't update the positional tracking to something similar to Vive by allowing for the addition of a second camera behind the player? My immediate thought would be cable length might be an issue, but if both the camera cables are the same length it shouldn't, right?

I think you can get away with this kind of stuff on PC, but the console scene needs to be a bit more straightforward in how you handle it.

Or if you're talking making dual cameras *required*, that would be messy and also raise the cost quite a bit.

But yea, it should technically be possible.

 

[majik13]

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Sony have built the panels with a higher density of whatever OLED pixel cells are called, and this helps screendoor on the relatively low-res 1080p screens.

Thought I read that just the center of the screens has a higher pixel density, and that greatly helps alleviate the screen door effect.

 

[Seanspeed]

Thought I read that just the center of the screens has a higher pixel density, and that greatly helps alleviate the screen door effect.

Higher pixel fill. Basically, the pixels themselves are actually larger, meaning the space between pixels(which is what causes the screen door effect) is smaller.

Pixel density across the display will be equal.

 

[Man]

Summer Lesson has now passed a million views on YouTube.

/the_thirst_is_real

 

[Theonik]

Higher pixel fill. Basically, the pixels themselves are actually larger, meaning the space between pixels(which is what causes the screen door effect) is smaller.

Pixel density across the display will be equal.

They probably have better sub pixel arrangement for VR too no? DK2 looked pretty terrible because of the pen tile.

Seems like Sony is getting the best panels in this race. Shame they aren't doing dual displays and higher resolution but I guess that's G2 on the PS5

 

[Man]

Seems like Sony is getting the best panels in this race. Shane they aren't doing dual displays and higher resolution but I guess that's G2 on the PS5

There will be drastic developments within VR over the next five years.

Morpheus 2 might become a standalone platform ala PSP with built-in-chipset and eye-tracking (enabling FOVEAted rendering) in 2020.

 

[Seanspeed]

They probably have better sub pixel arrangement for VR too no? DK2 looked pretty terrible because of the pen tile.

Seems like Sony is getting the best panels in this race. Shame they aren't doing dual displays and higher resolution but I guess that's G2 on the PS5

Oculus consumer version and Vive have far better displays than in the DK2.

 

[Theonik]

There will be drastic developments within VR over the next five years.

Morpheus 2 might become a standalone platform ala PSP with built-in-chipset and eye-tracking (enabling FOVEAted rendering) in 2020.

I mean that's what the Hololens sort of is.

Spoiler

Which is why it will cost you $599+

I think we are not at the point of convergence with mobile technology where we can outright replace the need for a desktop VR set for a few years still barring some breakthrough development which cannot be predicted. Mobile performance growth is hitting its slump finally.

Oculus consumer version and Vive have far better displays than in the DK2.

They do. But they are still pentile afaik.

 

[Seanspeed]

They do. But they are still pentile afaik.

Yet still look better by most accounts with less noticeable screen door effect.

Is Morpheus global update?

 

[Man]

Is Morpheus global update?

I have not heard such a thing.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Great OP, thanks Man. Just finished reading all the updates. The Deep is probably the game there I'm most excited about, as I find the deep sea fascinating and terrifying in equal measure. To compare it to a few other games I've played, I love being at the bottom of the sea in games like GTAV, AC Black Flag and Far Cry 3. A whole game based around that with a strong emphasis on solitude and horror could be amazing.

Also interested to see more of Super Hyper Cube. With it being Polytron, does that mean Phil Fish is developing it?

And very excited about EVE Valkyrie. Should be amazing. I love space games.

I would love Sony to bring back some of their old IPs for Morpheus - Colony Wars is so perfect, and I'd love a new Wipeout or Rollcage. Heck, maybe they should bring back Lifeforce Tenka!

 

[Man]

I would love Sony to bring back some of their old IPs for Morpheus - Colony Wars is so perfect, and I'd love a new Wipeout or Rollcage. Heck, maybe they should bring back Lifeforce Tenka!

RIGS is actually giving me plenty WipEout deja-vu (especially the first one) in terms of style. Looks like it could be one of the main sources of inspiration.

 

[Blanquito]

There will be drastic developments within VR over the next five years.

Morpheus 2 might become a standalone platform ala PSP with built-in-chipset and eye-tracking (enabling FOVEAted rendering) in 2020.

By standalone platform do you mean similar to Hololens?

Because I feel like having it be similar to Hololens would really limit the capabilities of the system: using batteries, having smaller and less powerful chipsets, and having much more strict thermal throttling would really hamper progress.

 

[serversurfer]

Yet still look better by most accounts with less noticeable screen door effect.

In the most recent Tested video, Norm mentioned that screendoor was still noticeable with Morpheus. Will interjected, "But it's the same with Oculus." Norm conceded the point, but said that it was "different," and speculated that Sony aren't using Frenel lenses — I have no idea if they are or not — and also mentioned the sub-pixel arrangement. The fact that Sony have a full RGB display seems to have Norm convinced they're still using LCD. lol

Is Morpheus global update?

I believe so. In the initial prototype, they used a rolling update which updated horizontally rather than vertically, because they thought that would help reduce blur when you turned your head side-to-side. However, I'm pretty sure they switched to global update when they switched to the low-persistence OLED at GDC '15.

Hey, where'd you get that fill ratio diagram? It's a lot prettier than the ones I made. lol

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Does Sony still manufactur OLED panels? I thought they sold that off a while back.

 

[Seanspeed]

In the most recent Tested video, Norm mentioned that screendoor was still noticeable with Morpheus. Will interjected, "But it's the same with Oculus." Norm conceded the point, but said that it was "different," and speculated that Sony aren't using Frenel lenses — I have no idea if they are or not — and also mentioned the sub-pixel arrangement. The fact that Sony have a full RGB display seems to have Norm convinced they're still using LCD. lol

Yea, they were incorrect about that and I wouldn't ever treat Tested as the ultimate 'say' on these things, but they aren't the only ones to suggest that the other headsets have a better image, which really, I don't know why you'd be so sceptical. It seems pretty obvious they would.

I believe so. In the initial prototype, they used a rolling update which updated horizontally rather than vertically, because they thought that would help reduce blur when you turned your head side-to-side. However, I'm pretty sure they switched to global update when they switched to the low-persistence OLED at GDC '15.

Why do you believe so? You've offered no links or sources or even first hand anecdotes to suggest this is the case.

Hey, where'd you get that fill ratio diagram? It's a lot prettier than the ones I made. lol

Quick google! I don't know if some people would get the point, so a thankfully useful illustration popped up first thing!

 

[Vyrance]

And people thought "Kitchen" was scary...



http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/2...allenges-you-to-walk-between-the-twin-towers/

That sounds awesome. As someone who can be scared of heights sometimes I'd love to try it.

Kind of gave me an idea that someone should make a game called Face your Fears. Where it has height challenges, water, spiders, snakes, bugs, etc., lol.

 

[Neuromancer]

And people thought "Kitchen" was scary...



http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/2...allenges-you-to-walk-between-the-twin-towers/

Hmm... Will this be a commercial Morpheus game, or just something to show off in theaters while the movie is being shown?

 

[DavidDesu]

That sounds awesome. As someone who can be scared of heights sometimes I'd love to try it.

Kind of gave me an idea that someone should make a game called Face your Fears. Where it has height challenges, water, spiders, snakes, bugs, etc., lol.

That is a damn good idea. Also, NOPE.

 

[mckmas8808]

And people thought "Kitchen" was scary...



http://www.siliconera.com/2015/06/2...allenges-you-to-walk-between-the-twin-towers/

But the Morphesus is wired. How would this work?

 

[Neuromancer]

But the Morphesus is wired. How would this work?

I figured you don't really walk anywhere, but it tracks your head movement to determine how balanced you are. I guess we'll see.

 

[mrklaw]

But the Morphesus is wired. How would this work?

With the talk of future headsets, making them wireless would be my first wish. Can't they get local wireless transmission down to only 1-2ms? That would seem a reasonable trade off for losing the wires.

 

[DHC-Shannow]

But the Morphesus is wired. How would this work?

The Vive is wired too and that uses room scale / walkabout VR.

 

[serversurfer]

Yea, they were incorrect about that and I wouldn't ever treat Tested as the ultimate 'say' on these things, but they aren't the only ones to suggest that the other headsets have a better image, which really, I don't know why you'd be so sceptical. It seems pretty obvious they would.

I'm not skeptical. I actually hadn't heard too many first-hand comparisons of the various systems, particularly with regard to the RGB vs pentile aspects of the displays. I know Vive has a higher resolution — and I assume Rift does too — but I've generally heard good things about the RGB display Sony are using. Regarding screen door specifically, in the video I just saw, one guy said Morpheus had noticeable screen door, the other guy said it was no worse than Rift, and the first guy conceded the point.

What exactly are you arguing here? That they're wrong, and it's more noticeable on Morpheus? AFAIK, all of the current headsets have detectable screen door that gets forgotten during normal use. Are you saying this isn't the case? Are you saying pentile displays are better than RGB?

Why do you believe so? You've offered no links or sources or even first hand anecdotes to suggest this is the case.

That's because I can't remember where I heard it. As I recall, it was more of an anti-confirmation type of thing. Someone asked them about the horizontal refresh they were doing initially, and they basically said that was just en experiment, and they'd abandoned that solution. I don't recall if they explicitly said they were using global refresh instead, but I see no reason why they wouldn't be.

Quick google! I don't know if some people would get the point, so a thankfully useful illustration popped up first thing!

lol Yeah, I explained it a bunch before I finally made pictures and people started getting it.

 

[TheGuardian]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

 

[Seanspeed]

I'm not skeptical. I actually hadn't heard too many first-hand comparisons of the various systems, particularly with regard to the RGB vs pentile aspects of the displays. I know Vive has a higher resolution — and I assume Rift does too — but I've generally heard good things about the RGB display Sony are using. Regarding screen door specifically, in the video I just saw, one guy said Morpheus had noticeable screen door, the other guy said it was no worse than Rift, and the first guy conceded the point.

Not how I interpreted that conversation at all. I took it to mean that while the screendoor is not completely gone on the Rift, it's still better than on Morpheus, so much so that the one guy basically said he couldn't see it on the Rift.

That's because I can't remember where I heard it. As I recall, it was more of an anti-confirmation type of thing. Someone asked them about the horizontal refresh they were doing initially, and they basically said that was just en experiment, and they'd abandoned that solution. I don't recall if they explicitly said they were using global refresh instead, but I see no reason why they wouldn't be.

Because a panel of the sort they need might not exist?

 

[Mokubba]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

His reactions gets me all the time lol.

He's really into it.

 

[mckmas8808]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

Yo he's so into it. Got me even more excited.

 

[DangerMouse]

Yo he's so into it. Got me even more excited.

Yeah

 

[Z3M0G]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

That's not the driving sequence. I didn't realize they were demoing another part of London Heist at E3...

 

[dumbo]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

His other video on Morpheus is also quite interesting/amusing...
Hip Hop gamer plays The Kitchen

I quite agree with that video.

 

[Soi-Fong]

That's not the driving sequence. I didn't realize they were demoing another part of London Heist at E3...

Holy shit. This is completely new. Awesome.. Haha it's so funny in the beginning you can tell he wanted to scream "Oh Shit!" lol

 

[Blanquito]

Holy shit. This is completely new. Awesome.. Haha it's so funny in the beginning you can tell he wanted to scream "Oh Shit!" lol

Is this actually the older demo that was playable at all the events last year? I'm pretty sure it is -- you start in front of the big guy and then you end up in a shootout.

 

[Reallink]

I am concerned about how Vive and Rift both wound up on 2 screens with IPD adjustments while Sony is sticking to one with no IPD adjustment (on the current units at least).

 

[paulogy]

I am concerned about how Vive and Rift both wound up on 2 screens with IPD adjustments while Sony is sticking to one with no IPD adjustment (on the current units at least).

Why is that a concern? Why did they each switch to split screens? If it's because they think they could yield them better, perhaps Sony is not as concerned about their manufacturing.

 

[DHC-Shannow]

I am concerned about how Vive and Rift both wound up on 2 screens with IPD adjustments while Sony is sticking to one with no IPD adjustment (on the current units at least).

I think single 1080p screen Morpheus uses is probably the best match for the PS4 - increasing the resolution and the framerate to match Oculus & HTC would greatly limit the games they could produce (nearly double the number of pixels to draw per second). I'm sure the PC alternatives do look clearer but (not having tried them) I don't think they're massively better.

As for the IPD, I've not seen that mentioned anywhere so are they using a software solution?

Is there going to be a battle to create the standard interface used for VR...

http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-to-open-rift-constellation-positional-tracking-api-to-third-parties/

 

[cakefoo]

PLAYSTATION VR Ressurects PS MOVE At E3'15 [THE LONDON HEIST]

I've always struggled to gauge HHG's true enthusiasm level. Maybe after 3 redbulls I'd feel the same.

 

[serversurfer]

Not how I interpreted that conversation at all. I took it to mean that while the screendoor is not completely gone on the Rift, it's still better than on Morpheus, so much so that the one guy basically said he couldn't see it on the Rift.

Ah, right on. Sorry, I was talking about this conversation between Will and Norm, from Tested, wherein Norm says it's noticeable on Morpheus, Will says it's just as noticeable on Rift, and Norm concedes it's equally noticeable but still feels like Oculus is better for reasons he can't explain; likely the "fact" that Sony are still using LCD.

Because a panel of the sort they need might not exist?

Wut? Of course global refresh displays exist. Also, Sony are a display company, so they can make whatever displays they want. You act like they're rooting through the dumpsters behind LG.

Do you actually have some reason to believe Sony aren't using global refresh, or are you just concerned?

 

[Reallink]

Why is that a concern? Why did they each switch to split screens? If it's because they think they could yield them better, perhaps Sony is not as concerned about their manufacturing.

I think single 1080p screen Morpheus uses is probably the best match for the PS4 - increasing the resolution and the framerate to match Oculus & HTC would greatly limit the games they could produce (nearly double the number of pixels to draw per second). I'm sure the PC alternatives do look clearer but (not having tried them) I don't think they're massively better.

As for the IPD, I've not seen that mentioned anywhere so are they using a software solution?

Is there going to be a battle to create the standard interface used for VR...

http://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-to-open-rift-constellation-positional-tracking-api-to-third-parties/

I'd guess they chose 2 primarily because it allows them to implement a mechanical IPD slider and still use all the real estate of the screens (better FOV and resolution). Trying to implement mechanical adjustments on one screen means people with very wide or narrow eye separation are going to have a lot of screen that's not visible resulting in a lower FOV and resolution. Doing it in software means those same people (with off average IPD's) are off the sweet spot the lenses are designed for and will get increased blurring, fringing, and a generally lower quality experience. Trying to shoehorn everyone into one size could also be a contributor to simulator sickness. The first Morpheus prototype they demoed did have a mechanical slider, but they removed it by the second showing, it's still MIA out of E3 AFAIK, and they're on record saying the E3 HW is basically feature complete with the planned retail units. Vive/Rift are only 1200x1080 per eye, Morpheus is 960x1080, so they're very close in terms of pixels to draw.

 

[DHC-Shannow]

I'd guess they chose 2 primarily because it allows them to implement a mechanical IPD slider and still use all the real estate of the screens (better FOV and resolution). Trying to implement mechanical adjustments on one screen means people with very wide or narrow eye separation are going to have a lot of screen that's not visible resulting in a lower FOV and resolution. Doing it in software means those same people (with off average IPD's) are off the sweet spot the lenses are designed for and will get increased blurring, fringing, and a generally lower quality experience. Trying to shoehorn everyone into one size could also be a contributor to simulator sickness. The first Morpheus prototype they demoed did have a mechanical slider, but they removed it by the second showing, it's still MIA out of E3 AFAIK, and they're on record saying the E3 HW is basically feature complete with the planned retail units. Vive/Rift are only 1200x1080 per eye, Morpheus is 960x1080, so they're very close in terms of pixels to draw.

Ah good info on the IPD slider, not seen that before. I wonder how they incorporated it earlier with a single screen, I guess they just moved the lenses across.

With regards to the number of pixels drawn, it's surprising what the difference is when you do the math

1 x 1080 x 1920 x 60 = 124416000
2 x 1080 x 1200 x 90 = 232280000

As long as the reprojection works well enough I think the 60 fps is a smart move for Sony.

 

[sono]

Every dream will come

Dream will come

Will cum

Is DLC extra?

 

[Planet]

Also the PS4 is capable of native 120 FPS with simpler graphics, and some recent games demonstrated a completeley seperate image for the TV, also at 60 FPS.

And if I heard it right, both Vive and Oculus are using PenTile matrix displays instead of RGB what Sony puts into Morpheus. You can discount 2/3rd of the resolution then - at least in terms of sharpness and clarity, the GPU will still have to render the pixels as if they had every subpixel.

Without hands-on I'd still say Sony found all the right compromises. Hopefully they will do the same with the price.

 

[bj00rn_]

Also the PS4 is capable of native 120 FPS with simpler graphics, and some recent games demonstrated a completeley seperate image for the TV, also at 60 FPS.

And if I heard it right, both Vive and Oculus are using PenTile matrix displays instead of RGB what Sony puts into Morpheus. You can discount 2/3rd of the resolution then - at least in terms of sharpness and clarity

No. You can't "discount 2/3 of the resolution", it doesn't work like that. Not even 1/3 is the whole truth in practice even though you can arguably say that on paper.

Samsung already had AMOLED displays with striped RGB in the market, so we know they have the tools ready to make them if needed. Point is, we simply do not know what's in the Vive and Rift yet. It'll be interesting to see when we get the specs.

 

[Soi-Fong]

No. You can't "discount 2/3 of the resolution", it doesn't work like that. Not even 1/3 is the whole truth in practice even though you can arguably say that on paper.

Samsung already has had displays with striped RGB in the market. Point is, we simply do not know what's in the Vive and Rift yet. It'll be interesting to see when we get the specs.

Teardown is gonna be scrumptious!!!

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Summer Lesson has now passed a million views on YouTube.

/the_thirst_is_real

I'm at work and this sounds like something I should not search up what it is...

 

[Nightengale]

I'm at work and this sounds like something I should not search up what it is...

It's fine.

 

[cheezcake]

And if I heard it right, both Vive and Oculus are using PenTile matrix displays instead of RGB what Sony puts into Morpheus. You can discount 2/3rd of the resolution then - at least in terms of sharpness and clarity, the GPU will still have to render the pixels as if they had every subpixel.

I am so confused by what you're trying to say here? "Discount 2/3 of the resolution", what does that mean?

"the GPU will still have to render the pixels as if they had every subpixel"
Were people saying that subpixel structure effects GPU operation?

 

[BaldusCattus]

Is this actually the older demo that was playable at all the events last year? I'm pretty sure it is -- you start in front of the big guy and then you end up in a shootout.

Yeah for the record HhG was playing the Interrogation/Heist sequences in that video, from the demo that was at GDC '15 for example ( Project Morpheus GDC 2015 - The London Heist VR Demo PlayStation 4 )

I'm told he played the new Getaway sequence after that was shot, so he might do another video later.

 

[Nightengale]

Shu Yoshida talks Summer Lesson... among other VR things.

Digital Spy Interview with Shu on VR. Some select quotes :

Bandai Namco have tweaked the setup on Summer Lesson. It's such a 'present' experience - you are part of the story and the character is totally aware of you, observes what you think and you can communicate… Everyone in Japan, boys, girls, men, women, fell in love with that experience. It was dangerous."

Without eye tracking, people naturally move their head, not just eyeballs. With eye tracking, Summer Lesson could become even more dangerous."

"On Oculus Touch, you see your virtual fingers move?"

"Yes.Very nice. I like their challenge. That will make Summer Lesson even more dangerous. That demo destroyed lots of people in Japan. They never want to come back."

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Seanspeed]

Ah, right on. Sorry, I was talking about this conversation between Will and Norm, from Tested, wherein Norm says it's noticeable on Morpheus, Will says it's just as noticeable on Rift, and Norm concedes it's equally noticeable but still feels like Oculus is better for reasons he can't explain; likely the "fact" that Sony are still using LCD.

That's the interview I'm talking about, and no, that's not what they say. You are interpreting the comment in a way I don't understand. Clearly Norm felt the screendoor was much less of an issue on the Rift, enough to say he couldn't notice it. Will only clarifies that the screendoor effect still exists on the Rift. At no point is it said it is 'just as bad' or 'equally noticeable'. That is you putting words into their mouth.

Wut? Of course global refresh displays exist. Also, Sony are a display company, so they can make whatever displays they want. You act like they're rooting through the dumpsters behind LG.

Do you actually have some reason to believe Sony aren't using global refresh, or are you just concerned?

I didn't say they didn't exist at all. But the ones Sony would need for Morpheus might not.

And I have no idea. Which is why I asked the question, obviously. You just happened to answer that they did and I asked for a source for which you had none whatsoever...