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Project Phoenix Ain't Looking Too Good
- Thread starter Sumio Mondo
- Start date
A programmer working on a different game, lol. This other game will probably release, make a measly 5k or so, then the programmer quits when they can't pay him anymore.
I seriously doubt you can just switch gears to some "fun little game" and suddenly make enough money to fund a bigger game which couldn't be done with $500,000.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
The incompetence of this project is staggering. It's amazing that, years later, they still think getting one programmer only, never mind one working on another game, isn't a risk.
What a bunch of idiots.
What a bunch of idiots.
secretanchitman
Member
I backed this game on kickstarter for the lowest tier (thankfully) so I'm not out that much money.
I'm still not surprised that after a number of updates, there isn't much progress that I can see. To their credit, they are being transparent but even still...
I'm still not surprised that after a number of updates, there isn't much progress that I can see. To their credit, they are being transparent but even still...
spazchicken
Member
They had 90% of the music done before they had 1% of the game complete?
I hate when devs do this.
I hate when devs do this.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
When fans who have never managed a project or worked on large scale projects try to make a large scale project.
This is some ass backwards game development. Usually you would, after the core gameplay design is figured out, make a prototype game that looks like crap but allows the designers and developers evolve the mechanics while artists get to work creating the visuals needed.
One programmer for something of this scale is such a terrible idea. You can get by with one guy for a simple game but not for something as large as a JRPG.
One programmer for something of this scale is such a terrible idea. You can get by with one guy for a simple game but not for something as large as a JRPG.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
I forgot about this, this was the one that looked even sketchier then Unsung Story right? With the director who was a musician and a designer who had previously only done QA work?
blankslatenator
Banned
It's professional to always have a contingency plan. Especially with Indie Game Development, since everyone is so flighty and unhinged Financially. I really like Hiroyuki's family like approach to the work though, I went in $500 deep this year just cause of that.
How about Nasir? I mean he basically invented everything in the first place and then just disappeared on royalties tied to the final fantasy name.
I've read Devs saying that kickstarter is a drying up oasis for Videogames,people are realizing they are paying premium for nothing.
How about Nasir? I mean he basically invented everything in the first place and then just disappeared on royalties tied to the final fantasy name.
I've read Devs saying that kickstarter is a drying up oasis for Videogames,people are realizing they are paying premium for nothing.
Unreal Champ
Banned
Projects like this is the reason why the studio I work with decided not to go with Kickstarter, because they felt they wouldn't get pledges. Shame really because I believe we have the team in place and good management but it's not my call to make.
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
to me it's pretty much dead.... they failed big time! it was two years ago, i considere my money gone! If the games come out one day, it will be a bonus
a little bit pissed, but i don't look back on what i spent two years ago, it happens
that's the risk with kickstarter, you're not pre-ordering a game, you're financing it, and there's no real guarantee it will succeed
a little bit pissed, but i don't look back on what i spent two years ago, it happens
that's the risk with kickstarter, you're not pre-ordering a game, you're financing it, and there's no real guarantee it will succeed
clay_ghost
Member
Lol maybe their should remake it into a visual novel? The art and music assets are already there right? No way can one programmer do everything.
Glass Shark
Banned
.
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
90 % really? A LOT of good games came from kickstarter, the list is long.... what's your source for this number? You just saw some projects fail and then decided "ho that must be the majority" ?
Glass Shark
Banned
.
LegitMcfalls
Member
If I had 3 years and a million or even half that with kickstarter fees and other expenses, I could ATLEAST have some sort of slice of gameplay to show my backers. And I have next to no game design skills! Id ask for your money back people!
Finale Fireworker
Member
The issue isn't that "most Kickstarter games are failures", it's that Kickstarter failures are so high profile. It would take fifty successful games of ordinary start-up reputation to outweigh the lukewarm reception to Yooka-Laylee and Mighty No. 9 speaks for itself.
If Shenmue or Bloodstained don't deliver, I can't see the zeitgeist surrounding crowdfunding to be as enthusiastic as it has been ever again. Crowdfunding had a really strong community aspect to it where lots of fans plugged and promoted their projects. I remember pledging $250 to Bloodstained and telling everyone I could to donate.
There used to be this feeling that "if we help create this, it will be amazing." Now, there are multiple examples of "if we help create this, it could be just okay."
Which, to be fair, was always the reality. There was no guarantee of quality, only the dream. Dare I say, we have woken from the dream and reality is sobering.
The games might not be good. Knowing that, how much would you donate?
It's very different from before where the expectation of greatness was unshakable. Even with tons of smaller games delivering at a level these high-profile games did not.
If Shenmue or Bloodstained don't deliver, I can't see the zeitgeist surrounding crowdfunding to be as enthusiastic as it has been ever again. Crowdfunding had a really strong community aspect to it where lots of fans plugged and promoted their projects. I remember pledging $250 to Bloodstained and telling everyone I could to donate.
There used to be this feeling that "if we help create this, it will be amazing." Now, there are multiple examples of "if we help create this, it could be just okay."
Which, to be fair, was always the reality. There was no guarantee of quality, only the dream. Dare I say, we have woken from the dream and reality is sobering.
The games might not be good. Knowing that, how much would you donate?
It's very different from before where the expectation of greatness was unshakable. Even with tons of smaller games delivering at a level these high-profile games did not.
IlGialloMondadori
Member
That's the funniest thing. Just hire a goddamn bunch of coders, you idiots.
They were banking on getting a coder to work for free, and paying him in potential profits, which is really fucking stupid.
You pay for what you get.
Fuck these kind of kickstarters.
Unreal Champ
Banned
You'll be surprised how often this happens in the industry. For example the first Nier had all the music done and they had to build the game around it.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
This talk again...
At this point I agree with one of the comments in the KS update: It's time to call it quits, project failures happen. But they keep doubling down on promising to start this project even with the mismanagement and inexperience to even start this massive project. I don't think that's healthy for their future.
Cosmic Star Heroine and Thimbleweed Park was released and basically they delivered what they promised to do. But the higher profile the project was, the more attention is drawn to them--even the most miniscule of mistakes would make headlines in gaming blogs. With Kickstarter for Video Games slowing down in 2016, KS will be home for small projects asking a reasonable amount of money instead of asking 2M outright.
Cosmic Star Heroine and Thimbleweed Park was released and basically they delivered what they promised to do. But the higher profile the project was, the more attention is drawn to them--even the most miniscule of mistakes would make headlines in gaming blogs. With Kickstarter for Video Games slowing down in 2016, KS will be home for small projects asking a reasonable amount of money instead of asking 2M outright.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
I programmed Cosmic Star Heroine by myself. Admittedly, it took me nearly 4 years, but it is doable.
That explains a lot.
CupONoodos
Neo Member
I backed this and just want my money back at this point but I'll probably never see it. I've only backed 3 kickstarter projects: Mighty No. 9, Project Phoenix, and Hyper Light Drifter. Only Hyper Light Drifter was worth backing.
We also tend to remember the bad better than the good, as the old adage goes- once bitten, twice shy.
Kickstarter (well, not alone) gave us Divinity: Original Sin, Pillars of Eternity for example, not even delving into the many smaller projects (as you mention) that blew up way out of their initial scale from using Kickstarter as a springboard like Undertale, etc.
BRSxIgnition
Member
Thank god I got my money out & away from this when I did.
Finale Fireworker
Member
I'm definitely a small-project kind of guy. I backed $250 to Pixel Noir, for example. And not being able to hack CSH is one of my biggest regrets, because it's a game I would love to say I was part of.
And here's another thing: people always focus on Kickstarters they backed. Lots of people back these high-profile projects because they are, well, high profile. They get a lot of exposure and so lots of people back them who may not have backed a lot of projects before.
And since the mainstream only backs the Shenmues and the Yooka-Laylees, they don't even know that games like Divinity, Skullgirls, and Undertale are "Kickstarter games."
So they never even enter their consciousness. What they think of is what they personally backed. And lots of people only backed high-profile projects. And high-profile projects, so far, have not had a real home run to set the expectation firmly in the positive.
There where still a lot of high profile sucesses. The CRPG's like Pillars and Divnity turned out great. As did the shadowrun games. Shovel Knight ect..
People often forget that these games were kickstarters because they don't really advertise it that much.
At least for long forgotten PC genres Kickstarter has been fantastic.
edit:
Yeah we did
Finale Fireworker
Member
I agree. I actually just said that in the post above yours. We were probably writing our posts at the same time.
Literally doing nothing doesn't cost all that much
Prophane33
Member
If they have music and assets they should plug them into RPG maker at least and release SOMETHING. Not much programming needed for that. You'd think after, let's say, 2 years of delays they would do something a bit more pragmatic just to give people (again) SOMETHING to play. I know the horror stories get more press than the successes, but stuff like this continues to make me weary of kickstarted video games.
LordGorchnik
Member
Quickest $120 I've ever thrown away. I was such a fool back then.
My cardinal rules for Kickstarters are to only consider pledging for:
1) Clearly well-organized things featuring such established names that they will almost certainly succeed (Shenmue II, Bloodstained)
2) Things where there is visual evidence where the project is already underway, like a gameplay demo.
You need programmers from the get go. Seriously, they claim that the character models are done. What if they get a programmer and he's all like "I can't use these, they need to be in xxx format" or something like that, forcing them to re-do work they've already done? It's honestly like announcing a building project without an architect.
Anyway, the current situation is sad and I hope that they're eventually able to deliver something.
1) Clearly well-organized things featuring such established names that they will almost certainly succeed (Shenmue II, Bloodstained)
2) Things where there is visual evidence where the project is already underway, like a gameplay demo.
You need programmers from the get go. Seriously, they claim that the character models are done. What if they get a programmer and he's all like "I can't use these, they need to be in xxx format" or something like that, forcing them to re-do work they've already done? It's honestly like announcing a building project without an architect.
Anyway, the current situation is sad and I hope that they're eventually able to deliver something.
Seems like a good time to post Stump's google doc with all the major and semi-major gaming kickstarters and their current status.
There's a fair share of stinkers and failed projects, but considering that the vast majority of these games would have never seen the light of day without kickstarter, it certainly seems worth it. Over time the incompetent developers will get weeded out and people will be more wary of projects with little to show.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
"Violinist Hiroaki Yura will serve as the game's director and producer, while L.A. Noire QA analyst Vaughan Smith will be the game and battle designer."