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[PaulLFC]

I would imagine most of the backlash that they are facing is because of their sheer and unimaginable incompetence in not having a backup of the game and their subsequent unprofessional (and quite frankly, shameful) handling of the situation on that Twitter account. I don't think anyone would truly blame them for getting robbed, which is of course very unfortunate. 5 pounds or 50, it doesn't really matter.... those people are his investors. He makes a huge mistake and then turns around and talks to those people like that? Being emotionally traumatized, while understandable, is no excuse for that kind of behavior. Being drunk is no excuse. There actually is no excuse for the unprofessional behavior he displayed.

He admits as much on the apology blog, and yes there isn't an excuse for him to say stuff like that. But there's also no excuse for people calling him a "con artist". That's just out of order. He delivered a product for their money, and while it wasn't the final version, IMO it had more content and was more enjoyable than some other games for which more money is asked.

Everyone has different perceptions of what's worth the money and what isn't, but I'm happy with the version of the game I got for £5, it felt complete enough for me to feel as if I got my money's worth for the small amount asked, and any future updates and improvements to the game were like free bonuses. I realise not everyone will have that view, but I don't think anyone should be saying the guy conned them, because he didn't. He didn't take the money and deliver nothing.

 

[f0rk]

he made a mistake, but he's learned from it and it's not like getting burgled is a good thing. if anything this just shows how entitled gamers think they are.

People have paid early for future development of this game. Turns out it might be a bad idea to give money to some random guys working out of a bedroom, but they still have a right to be pissed to a certain extent when people you have invested in don't observe obvious backup procedure. Of course the internet takes it to far, but they have a right to express their unhappiness.

 

[Dakota47]

People have paid early for future development of this game. Turns out it might be a bad idea to give money to some random guys working out of a bedroom, but they still have a right to be pissed to a certain extent when people you have invested in don't observe obvious backup procedure. Of course the internet takes it to far, but they have a right to express their unhappiness.

The number of people who are angry about this far exceeds the number of people who actually paid money for this game, it seems.

 

[shuyin_]

The number of people that are angry about this far exceeds the number of people who actually paid money for this game, it seems.

I didn't pay for this game. So i'm not angry. I just disaprove anyone that's taking the developer's side. There is no excuse for shit like this.

 

[Servbot #42]

Man that fucking sucks, i hope they manage to recover from this whole business.

 

[AlimNassor]

He admits as much on the apology blog, and yes there isn't an excuse for him to say stuff like that. But there's also no excuse for people calling him a "con artist". That's just out of order. He delivered a product for their money, and while it wasn't the final version, IMO it had more content and was more enjoyable than some other games for which more money is asked.

Everyone has different perceptions of what's worth the money and what isn't, but I'm happy with the version of the game I got for £5, it felt complete enough for me to feel as if I got my money's worth for the small amount asked, and any future updates and improvements to the game were like free bonuses. I realise not everyone will have that view, but I don't think anyone should be saying the guy conned them, because he didn't. He didn't take the money and deliver nothing.

That's nice and all, but, an apology isn't going to bring back the game or my money. i did donate because I had met one of the devs on another forum and liked him. This isn't a simple mistake that can be corrected with an apology. This is the kind of thing that costs people their jobs and get's them into serious trouble. This isn't a silly minor mistake, this is a big time screw up. It's a shame they were robbed, but, it's even more of a shame they didn't have multiple back-ups or think this over.

I won't lose sleep or go on a rampage due to no refund ,but, I sure won't donate to them again. It's even more insulting is how they go get drunk and harass their fans who were justifiably upset over this. I don't care if they're an indie dev, they're making money off this they should act like they know what they're doing. :/

 

[TheSeks]

I hate the "It's only £X!" argument. Some people see value in their money, no matter how low it is. They save up, they could've bought something else with the money. So just telling someone to forget about it is ridiculous.

I'm guessing you're the kind of guy that gives £5 to the homeless guy smoking in front of Tescos... Or loves to say "keep the change" in every shop they visit.

If EA took $1 to pre-order their next "AAA" game and didn't deliver and didn't refund. There would still be a huge backlash. It's not the amount of money that was lost, it's the fact that money was lost. Money is money, no matter how big or small it is.

The difference here is it's an indie dev so they don't have a lot to lose and there aren't as many buyers so it's hard to get the refund for people that want it. Which is why people should blame themselves for not thinking it over before buying.

This. So very this. Don't use "It was only a dollar!" I paid that dollar in the expectation of getting your final product, you as a person that is taking my money have the responsibility to back your shit up in remote locations and have a version tree so you do not lose "months of work" in a fluke theft.

You also have the responsibility to take my insults and anger and go "yes, we were idiots. We're sorry" in stride instead of being insulting and then going "fuck it, I'm going to go play Deus Ex instead of working on the game you paid for."

Spoiler

Of course, I don't buy Alphas in the first place because I have enough common sense to see shit like this could happen and thus lose money. Sucks for you guys that bought this, but lesson learned. Don't give start up capital until you've see all bases and they are covered.

 

[Corto]

That's nice and all, but, an apology isn't going to bring back the game or my money. i did donate because I had met one of the devs on another forum and liked him. This isn't a simple mistake that can be corrected with an apology. This is the kind of thing that costs people their jobs and get's them into serious trouble. This isn't a silly minor mistake, this is a big time screw up. It's a shame they were robbed, but, it's even more of a shame they didn't have multiple back-ups or think this over.

I won't lose sleep or go on a rampage due to no refund ,but, I sure won't donate to them again. It's even more insulting is how they go get drunk and harass their fans who were justifiably upset over this. I don't care if they're an indie dev, they're making money off this they should act like they know what they're doing. :/

Well, if you consider you giving them money a donation then your relation it's not of a consumer/seller one but of a patron/sponsee and the refund is totally dependent of their discretion.

 

[angelfly]

Looks like they were according to their recent tweets, just not regular ones.

So they keep online backups but don't bother backing anything up for six months because they feel pressured? Like I said before big project with multiple people and not using any kind of VCS just seems like BS. If they actually were just moving stuff back and forth then that's just negligence on their part.

 

[spindoctor]

He admits as much on the apology blog, and yes there isn't an excuse for him to say stuff like that. But there's also no excuse for people calling him a "con artist". That's just out of order. He delivered a product for their money, and while it wasn't the final version, IMO it had more content and was more enjoyable than some other games for which more money is asked.

Everyone has different perceptions of what's worth the money and what isn't, but I'm happy with the version of the game I got for £5, it felt complete enough for me to feel as if I got my money's worth for the small amount asked, and any future updates and improvements to the game were like free bonuses. I realise not everyone will have that view, but I don't think anyone should be saying the guy conned them, because he didn't. He didn't take the money and deliver nothing.

I don't know man. I bought the game and I wouldn't call them con artists, but I kind of see why someone might. I know that when you buy the game, there is a clause which says that legally you are buying the game 'as is' and they are under no obligation to give you anything more. But having said that, I'm dead sure that each and every one of their customers have bought the game in good faith with the implicit expectation that it will someday be a completed project. Last night in that Twitter drama he actually did say stuff like the project was over, they were finished, and he would 'take the money and jump out of a window' and he ended it with a fuck you to his customers. Is it really hard to see why someone would call him a con artist? It doesn't help that these guys make excuse after excuse for all sorts of problems and delays in the project. I've never seen more excuses from any developer, indie or otherwise. The fact that you felt the pre-alpha they released was more than worth the price you paid doesn't really absolve them of the ethical responsibility of releasing a completed game which they promised. When they actually say that it will not happen, of course people are going to be upset.

And leaving all that aside, they are not the first developers to get crap flung at them. Have you seen the amount of vitriol towards Call of Duty or Activision or EA etc.? Have you ever seen any of those developers hitting out at the fanbase in retaliation? Imagine being Robert Bowling who took so much shit from PC gamers over Modern Warfare 2 and continues to do so, and yet he has never uttered a single word against them. Because that's being professional. This Indie Stone guy lost it inside minutes. It wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't contributed to making it so, so it's hard to feel sympathy for him over this drama.

 

[PaulLFC]

I don't know man. I bought the game and I wouldn't call them con artists, but I kind of see why someone might. I know that when you buy the game, there is a clause which says that legally you are buying the game 'as is' and they are under no obligation to give you anything more. But having said that, I'm dead sure that each and every one of their customers have bought the game in good faith with the implicit expectation that it will someday be a completed project. Last night in that Twitter drama he actually did say stuff like the project was over, they were finished, and he would 'take the money and jump out of a window' and he ended it with a fuck you to his customers. Is it really hard to see why someone would call him a con artist? It doesn't help that these guys make excuse after excuse for all sorts of problems and delays in the project. I've never seen more excuses from any developer, indie or otherwise. The fact that you felt the pre-alpha they released was more than worth the price you paid doesn't really absolve them of the ethical responsibility of releasing a completed game which they promised. When they actually say that it will not happen, of course people are going to be upset.

And leaving all that aside, they are not the first developers to get crap flung at them. Have you seen the amount of vitriol towards Call of Duty or Activision or EA etc.? Have you ever seen any of those developers hitting out at the fanbase in retaliation? Imagine being Robert Bowling who took so much shit from PC gamers over Modern Warfare 2 and continues to do so, and yet he has never uttered a single word against them. Because that's being professional. This Indie Stone guy lost it inside minutes. It wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't contributed to making it so, so it's hard to feel sympathy for him over this drama.

Oh I agree completely that they should have backed up the game and the guy shouldn't have lost it on Twitter. I also don't think it's wrong if someone feels annoyed by this, as I said everyone has different perceptions of value and what they expect for their money.

I just didn't like the wording of the guy on Twitter who called him a con artist, that was my main problem. To me a con artist is someone who takes your money in promise for something, and you get nothing in return. At least we got something, and had his house not been burgled, we would apparently have got an updated version.

Hopefully they manage to get back on track, make regular back ups from now on and manage to get back to, or close to, where they were before this happened.

 

[Draft]

Indie products have gotten so polished I sometimes forget these things are often built on personal computers by teams of one or two people. How amazing and awful to have all that work lost by something as simple as a laptop being stolen. I wonder how many other indie titles came close to extinction due to a relatively benign event like hard drive failure, spilled soda, power surge, etc.

 

[bengraven]

Funny enough, I think I might actually buy PZ now instead of just replaying the beta over and over again.

I know it's a small investment and I've been putting the majority of my gaming funds into indie projects the last year, but with other zombie survival RPGs coming out in the next year I was sitting on my laurels.

No more, I'll give them some cash to help get back on their feet.

 

[wutwutwut]

Indie products have gotten so polished I sometimes forget these things are often built on personal computers by teams of one or two people. How amazing and awful to have all that work lost by something as simple as a laptop being stolen. I wonder how many other indie titles came close to extinction due to a relatively benign event like hard drive failure, spilled soda, power surge, etc.

Anyone who loses significant amounts of code (ESPECIALLY after asking for money for it) due to a computer failure is a moron. Whatever code I write gets backed up at least three times, including once offsite. Source control exists, use it.

 

[TheSeks]

Anyone who loses significant amounts of code (ESPECIALLY after asking for money for it) due to a computer failure is a moron. Whatever code I write gets backed up at least three times, including once offsite. Source control exists, use it.

Also stop posting on reddit and being an idiot.

Dude is crazy stupid. And some people were trying to be helpful but no fuck yooooooou mr. helpful. I'll shit on the people that bought my game and are mad that I didn't back my shit up at least weekly and take my ball and go home.

And his "apology" blogpost is hilariously "no, not accepted." He made his true feelings about the project and people expecting much if they're investing in the project known. Dude should never be hired by a coding firm after this.

 

[Fusion Pizza]

Damn, that project has had so much bad luck, really sucks to see it end this way. At the very least this will be a cautionary tale for other indie dev's concerning backups and home security.

Also stop posting on reddit and being an idiot.

Dude is crazy stupid. And some people were trying to be helpful but no fuck yooooooou mr. helpful. I'll shit on the people that bought my game and are mad that I didn't back my shit up at least weekly and take my ball and go home.

And his "apology" blogpost is hilariously "no, not accepted." He made his true feelings about the project and people expecting much if they're investing in the project known. Dude should never be hired by a coding firm after this.

I can understand his venting, and he is drunk I think, but still, would have been better to just let people know what happened.

And who knows, he might come back.

 

[Zomba13]

Also stop posting on reddit and being an idiot.

Dude is crazy stupid. And some people were trying to be helpful but no fuck yooooooou mr. helpful. I'll shit on the people that bought my game and are mad that I didn't back my shit up at least weekly and take my ball and go home.

And his "apology" blogpost is hilariously "no, not accepted." He made his true feelings about the project and people expecting much if they're investing in the project known. Dude should never be hired by a coding firm after this.

I wonder how well you'd take twitter messages calling you a thief and con artist and fucking idiot etc etc right after you've been burgled and lost more than £5000 worth in laptops, your credit card and the code for the next update to your game.

If you can cope with that stuff then good on you, he couldn't and neither could I in the same position.

 

[spindoctor]

Dude is crazy stupid. And some people were trying to be helpful but no fuck yooooooou mr. helpful. I'll shit on the people that bought my game and are mad that I didn't back my shit up at least weekly and take my ball and go home.

His comments on that link are unbelievable.

 

[f0rk]

Funny enough, I think I might actually buy PZ now instead of just replaying the beta over and over again.

I know it's a small investment and I've been putting the majority of my gaming funds into indie projects the last year, but with other zombie survival RPGs coming out in the next year I was sitting on my laurels.

No more, I'll give them some cash to help get back on their feet.

Well that's the thing, if they had followed good standard practice with back up and not acted like a complete idiot on the internet in reaction to other idiots, they would have probably ended up ahead after the loss due to the publicity. I know I might have bought it. But I know I'm not going to now.

 

[Madrical]

I feel for the guy, but it was a silly move.

I was hoping to see it better, I'd definitely buy it.

 

[Lesiroth]

I feel sorry for his team members and the project(especially since it looks interesting), but that guy is an unstable mess. He really shouldn't be allowed to speak for anything official for the game ever again.

 

[shuri]

Typical indie dev bullshit.

 

[Marco1]

I bought this and it is a great game but they promised so much and didn't deliver.
There was so much talk followed by so much delays.
Sorry but something is off here and it's not the fish.

 

[gofreak]

How big are the updates for this? How long between them?

He says they lost everything since the last update (?) - would it be a HUGE issue to re-do the work?

(I mean, obviously it sucks, but if he doesn't want to throw in the towel it's possible he could recover things by branching off a new update. But if we're talking months and months of work then...I dunno...)

 

[Zek]

The last update was over a month ago, they've been talking this up as the big one for a while. These guys make Notch look like a master of PR.

 

[wutwutwut]

right after you've been burgled and lost more than £5000 worth in laptops, your credit card

These I sympathize with.

and the code for the next update to your game.

This I do not. They deserve absolutely all the name-calling they get for this.

The most work I've ever lost due to a hard drive failure is six hours' worth. Think about that.

 

[spindoctor]

How big are the updates for this? How long between them?

He says they lost everything since the last update (?) - would it be a HUGE issue to re-do the work?

Their last update was on August 28th. And that particular update was also significantly delayed. I'm not 100% clear on the details, but it was delayed because their code and/or game got stolen and/or cracked and pirates were playing along side paying customers with all the extra features that only customers were supposed to get. As a result, they had to disable the version of the game that customers got for a month or so, disable their Amazon cloud accounts and they had to recode their security protocols from scratch to stop this from happening again. Some more insight into the development of this project.

 

[Valygar]

It's stupid not to use some sort of online backup with a project like this. there are quite good ones that also help documenting the changes in the code, working more than one person at the same time... I thought this was standard procedure amongst programmers, I'm not IT but I'be used something like that twice, one in a big project with more people, and then once for a small personal project, just to synchronize the code in my PC and laptop,and keep the changes in case I fucked up.

The game seems interesting though, maybe I'll buy it once it's completed. I was thinking of buying it now to support, but that guy was too much of a dick.

 

[bengraven]

God, he really isn't a very good writer.

 

[Kinyou]

Just played the demo and... wow

A damn shame about all that code losing stuff.

 

[Psychotext]

On the bright side... if there is one, it's the sort of mistake you'll only ever make once.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Also stop posting on reddit and being an idiot.

Dude is crazy stupid. And some people were trying to be helpful but no fuck yooooooou mr. helpful. I'll shit on the people that bought my game and are mad that I didn't back my shit up at least weekly and take my ball and go home.

And his "apology" blogpost is hilariously "no, not accepted." He made his true feelings about the project and people expecting much if they're investing in the project known. Dude should never be hired by a coding firm after this.

Small indie company are physically burgled so they lose the work on an update, fuck them and their shitty anti-consumer practices.

Giant global corporation deliberately and willingly removes a feature some consumers actively paid for, pfff, no problem, only nerds were affected.

 

[Noshino]

It's stupid not to use some sort of online backup with a project like this. there are quite good ones that also help documenting the changes in the code, working more than one person at the same time... I thought this was standard procedure amongst programmers, I'm not IT but I'be used something like that twice, one in a big project with more people, and then once for a small personal project, just to synchronize the code in my PC and laptop,and keep the changes in case I fucked up.

The game seems interesting though, maybe I'll buy it once it's completed. I was thinking of buying it now to support, but that guy was too much of a dick.

It happens all the time with collaborative work, hell, just some weeks ago 3 people were working on the SOP for the ophthalmology/optometry, whenever I worked on something I would save it on the shared file, on the local file, and sending myself the updated version through emails, but for the past month or so I was so busy that I was only saving on the shared file.

Well, something happened with the file on the shared drive and when we wanted to pull the latest version....it was like 3 weeks old. We are talking about 20 pages of work gone. No one but ourselves to blame, not just that, but our higher ups didnt even give us shit because they knew that we working our asses off.


I can understand where these guys are coming from, its very frustrating to have to deal with the loss, and then have people frustrate you even further. But I do agree that staying quite, and ignoring people (at least while they aren't calm) would've been better. Gamers can be some of the most bitchy people out there.

What I have played of the game is great as is. I paid when they first asked for donations, hoping that they could achieve what they were aiming for. Wouldn't mind donating more so they actually finish their game.

 

[WEGGLES]

These I sympathize with.

This I do not. They deserve absolutely all the name-calling they get for this.

The most work I've ever lost due to a hard drive failure is six hours' worth. Think about that.

Even 6 hours seems like enough to lose.

He said he didn't have time to [sobstory]back up his code because he just spent so much time and effort answering all our mean emails all the time[/sobstory]


If only there was a free service that allowed you to automatically back-up your files to the "cloud".

 

[Wiktor]

I don't buy Alphas in the first place because I have enough common sense to see shit like this could happen and thus lose money. Sucks for you guys that bought this, but lesson learned.

Ermm...I have no sympathy for such people, they should know the both gains and risks this model has before giving devs the money. If they didn't think about it before paying...well..then it's their own fault.
You do not pay for full version of the game. You pay for alpha and that's what you're getting. By funding the developer you take a calculated risk, you will pay a little and risk not getting anything. THat's the model. If somebody doesn't like it nobody forces him to buy the game before it's done.

 

[Beaulieu]

I think this project is back on tracks no ? Is it doomed or what ? Seems like there are recent updates on the website.

I'm not sure if there will be subsequent updates or not. Want to know this before buying.

 

[Psychotext]

I had pretty much forgotten about this after the data loss problem. Hopefully they're still making progress.

 

[bengraven]

I finally broke down and bought this based on the new screens and videos from a couple weeks ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtEZArEji4U&feature=player_embedded


I hate to say this, but I really wish they'd just make a 3D hero. Just use a very light, low poly model, like an early 3D iso game like Sacred 1 for example.

 

[Toma]

A few updates since the last thread bump, major version release soon

blog post showing videos of mouse controls and item dropping

Definitely will give it another try with the next update

 

[EternalGamer]

I had pretty much forgotten about this after the data loss problem. Hopefully they're still making progress.

So what the happened anyway? I gave them money and then stopped paying attention after these incompetants continued to trapeze from one melodramatic episode to another.

Was the game actually released? I don't think I ever got an email with my copy/keycode.

 

[ZZMitch]

Here is a youtube video of the new update-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc6GCdW_rfA&feature=g-all-u&context=G258e295FAAAAAAAASAA

 

[PaulLFC]

When it's released will Desura just update to the new version automatically? It's still showing 0.1.5 for me but I assume the update hasn't been released yet.

 

[Sarcasm]

I don't whether to buy standalone or with desura (it be the only game I own on it)

 

[MNC]

Wow I kind of stopped following this after the breakdown; so they picked up their shit and started again? Good on them. Hope it finally will be something good. The alpha was fun.

 

[Mafro]

For those that don't know, they've been releasing little pre-release updates on their forum before the next proper update. The latest one has stuff like various resolution settings and the ability to save, I think.

 

[Toma]

Guys... serious question... How do I start the game? Downloaded from their website, and I have all those java and batch files, but no file to start the game?

What am I missing?

Edit: nvm, clicking on of the batch files worked. Didnt work earlier. Ah well.

And I just noticed that the current release 0.2 is only on Desura, not on my non Desura Version. Bleh.

 

[Dragnet]

Worth the £5?

 

[Toma]

Worth the £5?

Depends on what you are looking for in your 5 bucks investment. But if the premise sounds even remotely interesting to you, yes.

 

[PiLON]

I had been following this last summer but stopped paying attention. Is this game ever coming to Steam? It looks amazing.

 

[Juravsky]

It probably will, but in a long time.