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[Kujo]

They already have. There aren't any more 60GB systems at the Sony warehouses.

But see, they have to create the perception of a lower-classed system or else they'll enroach on their 80GB system.

They won't go full software PS2 BC just yet (doubt they're that far), so the only noticeable thing they can do is to remove a few USB ports and reduce the HD space. Internally, the system may be entirely different due to 65nm parts or a better PSU etc, but who knows? The FCC report doesn't speculate on those internals.

By the way, one important thing to note is that while a new chassis design would be early, it certainly isn't out of the question.

There's still around a million 60GBs left in store warehouses and on shelfs though. The thing is they don't even need to bring out a 40GB model. They can put the 80GB at all the same price points they can with the 40GB because they would cost basically the same to make. USB ports cost next to nothing. Bringing out a new SKU to save a measly $5 and yet price it $100 cheaper would be a dumb move by Sony. And 65nm parts can be streamed into the 80GB production easily.

A PSthree would be good, but they're going to need to reduce heat a lot more before they can make it smaller, so we'll probably see one when they go to 45nm chips.

 

[Raistlin]

They won't go full software PS2 BC just yet (doubt they're that far)

I don't expect them to ever get that going ... at least not at a high percentage of compatibility.

PS2's GS/eDRAM just had way too much BW.

 

[SRG01]

I don't expect them to ever get that going ... at least not at a high percentage of compatibility.

PS2's GS/eDRAM just had way too much BW.

Not to mention that some of the native functions of the PS2 still blow away conventional video cards. It was mentioned in one of the threads or b3d a while back.

 

[SRG01]

There's still around a million 60GBs left in store warehouses and on shelfs though. The thing is they don't even need to bring out a 40GB model. They can put the 80GB at all the same price points they can with the 40GB because they would cost basically the same to make. USB ports cost next to nothing. Bringing out a new SKU to save a measly $5 and yet price it $100 cheaper would be a dumb move by Sony. And 65nm parts can be streamed into the 80GB production easily.

A PSthree would be good, but they're going to need to reduce heat a lot more before they can make it smaller, so we'll probably see one when they go to 45nm chips.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing in favor of the 40GB system. In actuality, I'm very much against it.

But all signs point to "yes" so meh. :/


Oh by the way, they could have reworked the BD drive too. Different drive and laser mechanisms can be a significant cost reduction.

 

[Kujo]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing in favor of the 40GB system. In actuality, I'm very much against it.

But all signs point to "yes" so meh. :/


Oh by the way, they could have reworked the BD drive too. Different drive and laser mechanisms can be a significant cost reduction.

But a cheaper BD drive would then be used in all of the models though. So I mean all of the cost reduction advances of the PS3 can go into the 80GB over time without the need for another SKU.

I just hope Sony don't introduce another SKU, it's not going to help them reduce manufacturing costs. They need to just ride it out basically. The biggest costing non-essential components in the PS3 are the PS2 GPU and WiFi. I wouldn't mind if they took them out. They'll probably just remove the PS2 GPU in the PSthree and just stop listing BC as a selling point.

Also Kaz Hirai has mentioned they're going to stick with 1 SKU from now on, so who knows.

 

[JudgeN]

Average person to store clerk: What's the difference between the $399 version and the $499 version?

Store clerk: Nothing really, just a bigger hard drive and useless stuff like card readers.

Average person: So I can get a PS3 with all the functions for $399?

Store Clerk: Yea

Average person: ok, that one please.

Added my own fix but this is exactly how that would go, once again stop trying to make sense of the situation and just realize you will be getting a PS3 for $100 cheaper then the 60 gig and all you be losing is really 20gigs of hardrive space. Thats what customers will see and thats all sony needs to do is get away from the $500-$600 cost impression they made upon the world.

 

[Elios83]

BTW isn't a bit weird that this article is linked in the Playstation blog?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/26/fcc-reveals-ps3-model-cechg01-the-el-cheapo-40gb-ps3/

Usually that space in the blog is reserved for links to informative (and of course mostly positive) PS related articles from other websites/blogs.

 

[SRG01]

BTW isn't a bit weird that this article is linked in the Playstation blog?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/26/fcc-reveals-ps3-model-cechg01-the-el-cheapo-40gb-ps3/

Usually that space in the blog is reserved for links to informative (and of course mostly positive) PS related articles from other websites/blogs.

They're playing with our heads. :lol

 

[jonabbey]

But a cheaper BD drive would then be used in all of the models though. So I mean all of the cost reduction advances of the PS3 can go into the 80GB over time without the need for another SKU.

I just hope Sony don't introduce another SKU, it's not going to help them reduce manufacturing costs. They need to just ride it out basically. The biggest costing non-essential components in the PS3 are the PS2 GPU and WiFi. I wouldn't mind if they took them out. They'll probably just remove the PS2 GPU in the PSthree and just stop listing BC as a selling point.

Also Kaz Hirai has mentioned they're going to stick with 1 SKU from now on, so who knows.

The 40 gig would have a different hard drive simply so that people could upsell themselves to the 80 gig model.

It's the same reason that Wendy's sells a triple burger. It's not that they expect anyone to buy the triple, it's that having it on their menu makes people more likely to pay for the double.

The 80 gig unit would stay around so that Sony could profit from people choosing of their own accord to stretch to get the next nicer unit, once they've already decided to 'Hop On'.

It's purely a market differentiation move, like Toyota calling one car the Avalon, and one a Lexus.

 

[tehbear]

The 40 gig would have a different hard drive simply so that people could upsell themselves to the 80 gig model.

It's the same reason that Wendy's sells a triple burger. It's not that they expect anyone to buy the triple, it's that having it on their menu makes people more likely to pay for the double.

The 80 gig unit would stay around so that Sony could profit from people choosing of their own accord to stretch to get the next nicer unit, once they've already decided to 'Hop On'.

It's purely a market differentiation move, like Toyota calling one car the Avalon, and one a Lexus.

I heard In-And-Out let you have as MANY patties as you want. I've personally seen a guy with at least 6 patties on a burger once... Of course I was tempted, so I had to slap a 200GB HD in my PS3. Man if only Wendy's let you bring your own patties.

One thing I do wonder is how well the 20GB really sold.

 

[p_xavier]

The 40 gig would have a different hard drive simply so that people could upsell themselves to the 80 gig model.

It's the same reason that Wendy's sells a triple burger. It's not that they expect anyone to buy the triple, it's that having it on their menu makes people more likely to pay for the double.

The 80 gig unit would stay around so that Sony could profit from people choosing of their own accord to stretch to get the next nicer unit, once they've already decided to 'Hop On'.

It's purely a market differentiation move, like Toyota calling one car the Avalon, and one a Lexus.

IMO, I don't think it's about choice, but about perception. They need a major price drop, and sooner the better. The iPhone dropped $200 and had lots of negative talks.

A 399 40GB, 449 60GB and 499 80 GB would look less desperate, and would permet sony to perfect a PSthree for next fall. A 399 80GB could be possible next spring for the big games.

 

[Kujo]

Sony's problem though is that the price of their lead SKU needs to drop. If they do make a 40GB and manufacture it in small quantities, it's going to be exactly what happened with the 20GB. It's not really worth it. Maximum sales would be had by having the 1 SKU with real price drops every 6 or so months.

They should drop the 60GB to $449 these holidays with the 80GB down to $499. Once the 60GB are finally cleared, drop the 80GB to $399 in the first half of next year. Having 40GB with the same manufacturing costs as a 80GB would just lose them money they didn't need to lose. Of course I wouldn't put it past them to bring out another SKU.

 

[Menaged]

Just guessing, but maybe the 40 GB SKU will be the only SKU? After all, isn't the 80 GB a limited edition?

 

[Kujo]

Just guessing, but maybe the 40 GB SKU will be the only SKU? After all, isn't the 80 GB a limited edition?

The 80GB with Motorstorm is limited, but not the SKU itself. 40GB drives cost about the same as 80GB so there would be no point in introducing a new model to cut the storage in half while costing the same to produce.

I wonder when DualShock3 will be included though.

 

[NIghtWolf]

IMO, I don't think it's about choice, but about perception. They need a major price drop, and sooner the better. The iPhone dropped $200 and had lots of negative talks.

A 399 40GB, 449 60GB and 499 80 GB would look less desperate, and would permet sony to perfect a PSthree for next fall. A 399 80GB could be possible next spring for the big games.

Agree and after all what you said at first its the truth, marketing is not a battle between brands but perception, and thats something sony needs to change asap if they want to sell at least 1/4 of what ps2 sold (well yeah, still selling ). What you wrote actually makes sense in a global basis (to different kinds of consumer perceptions) looking at what the ps3 is capable of....as a media station.

Sony's problem though is that the price of their lead SKU needs to drop. If they do make a 40GB and manufacture it in small quantities, it's going to be exactly what happened with the 20GB. It's not really worth it. Maximum sales would be had by having the 1 SKU with real price drops every 6 or so months.

They should drop the 60GB to $449 these holidays with the 80GB down to $499. Once the 60GB are finally cleared, drop the 80GB to $399 in the first half of next year. Having 40GB with the same manufacturing costs as a 80GB would just lose them money they didn't need to lose. Of course I wouldn't put it past them to bring out another SKU.

I think a 40GB ps3 would make a huge impact as a cheap blue-ray player (the cheapest blu-ray player perhaps? with HDD and all the funtionality that the ps3 have, it could mean a good Xmas choice). Also, we can't make early conclusions about they losing money since we don't know yet what components will have the machine and if they change them in some way. I know what you say, but I believe that a $450 60GB ps3 would not sell as much as a $400 ps3, they will be losing money but also selling 2x-3x more (3x in the best case), and also that money they lose is going to be money they will get back as soon as the consumer start to consume (in games or movie w/e).

Im just assuming this is happening in the future but I am a "see to believe" with sony.

 

[spwolf]

It's purely a market differentiation move, like Toyota calling one car the Avalon, and one a Lexus.

wtf?

 

[spwolf]

The 80GB with Motorstorm is limited, but not the SKU itself. 40GB drives cost about the same as 80GB so there would be no point in introducing a new model to cut the storage in half while costing the same to produce.

I wonder when DualShock3 will be included though.

EHM, how about not making conclusions without any info? Of course 80 GB wont be replaced by 40 GB, but price difference between the two is around 15$-20$.... and 40 GB is around 8$ less than 60 GB.

Saving on those, plus usb, wifi, and whatever else they can save on, would be more than $100 mill over 5 million units sold.... $100 mil might not be much for you, but is significant for Sony...

 

[Kujo]

I know what you say, but I think that a $450 60GB ps3 would not sell as much as a $400 ps3 even if they lose money they will sell more systems that would translate in $$$$ for them in the future.

I agree that they need to get down to $399 ASAP, but I feel that they should do that with the 80GB and not create another 40GB model. A $449 60GB would just be to clear them out before dropping the 80GB to $399 next year.

Saving on those, plus usb, wifi, and whatever else they can save on

According to this article; WiFi, USB, and the rest are still in there (if that is indeed the new one). So if it comes down to just 2 different HDDs, if you've seen the wholesale prices, the difference between them is around $5 depending on the brand. So not much at all. Like I said before, the biggest thing they can cut is the PS2 GPU which is around $20. Cutting out WiFi, GS, memory card reader, some USB ports, and a smaller HDD, and they might save $40. But that's already been done before.

 

[joshcryer]

Yeah, but if they just price down the 80GB model then they don't make the money on people seeing 40GB/80GB and chosing the 80GB model over the 40GB. They lose more with the 40GB, so why not leave the 80GB out there so people with a bit more money can help them save costs? This reminds me of the "PS3 not a price drop" 50 page thread we had here.

 

[NIghtWolf]

I agree that they need to get down to $399 ASAP, but I feel that they should do that with the 80GB and not create another 40GB model. A $449 60GB would just be to clear them out before dropping the 80GB to $399 next year.

Well it dont think our points can be the same since I am not seeing that one sku politic happening but if it does then I believe its going to be like you say. Maybe we see a 40GB limited Xmas edition ps3

(I know, I kid)

 

[Kujo]

It would be interesting to see if anyone is actually buying the 80GB with Motorstorm bundle. Has there been any numbers on that?

What they could do is:

40GB PS3 - $399
80GB PS3 with 2 games - $499

But are they going to just keep juggling SKUs? It just makes more sense to simplify production.

 

[spwolf]

I agree that they need to get down to $399 ASAP, but I feel that they should do that with the 80GB and not create another 40GB model. A $449 60GB would just be to clear them out before dropping the 80GB to $399 next year.



According to this article; WiFi, USB, and the rest are still in there (if that is indeed the new one). So if it comes down to just 2 different HDDs, if you've seen the wholesale prices, the difference between them is around $5 depending on the brand. So not much at all. Like I said before, the biggest thing they can cut is the PS2 GPU which is around $20. Cutting out WiFi, GS, memory card reader, some USB ports, and a smaller HDD, and they might save $40. But that's already been done before.

um, thats just another model, they know nothing about it... it could be 500 GB .

Again, for you, them saving $30-$40 per PS3 sold might not matter, but for them, we are talking about a lot of money...

 

[Guy Legend]

They should drop the 60GB to $449 these holidays with the 80GB down to $499. Once the 60GB are finally cleared, drop the 80GB to $399 in the first half of next year. Having 40GB with the same manufacturing costs as a 80GB would just lose them money they didn't need to lose. Of course I wouldn't put it past them to bring out another SKU.

As it was said earlier, even if the cost reduction isn't that much between the potential 40 gb model and 80 gb model, it's still very beneficial to have two skus selling at a substantial price difference. The 360 elite has proven that there are people willing to pay for top end models.

For Sony, offering a $399 40 gb unit taps into an entire new set of consumer willing and able to buy the product. Simply put, this is the move to increase the installed base - even if it comes at a loss to Sony financially right now. The 80 gb option allows Sony to generate more revenue. Some people are willing to pay more for a higher end unit, and for the bottom line having this option makes sense.

That's also why I was saying Sony should release the 40 unit in silver. Not only does it create visual differentiation between models, but I think some people who prefer black would pony up more cash for the 80 gb unit for that fact. I honestly believe that the 360 elite was benefited by the fact that it came in a black case design. Whether it's true or not, an obvious difference in appearance is another way to easily differentiate models for consumers.

 

[mepaco]

EHM, how about not making conclusions without any info? Of course 80 GB wont be replaced by 40 GB, but price difference between the two is around 15$-20$.... and 40 GB is around 8$ less than 60 GB.

Saving on those, plus usb, wifi, and whatever else they can save on, would be more than $100 mill over 5 million units sold.... $100 mil might not be much for you, but is significant for Sony...

I really doubt that the price difference between the 80GB and the 40GB would be anywhere near $20. I don't think the difference is even that large for consumers, much less when buying in bulk.

 

[Kujo]

Again, for you, them saving $30-$40 per PS3 sold might not matter, but for them, we are talking about a lot of money...

No I said there's no point cutting just storage in half to save $4. But cutting out WiFi, PS2 GS, memory card reader, etc, etc, then that may be worth it. But that could just end up like the 20GB again. They would need to ship a lot more units than they did with the 20GB.

So what I'm saying is, if they're going to bring out a 40GB model, they should go all out and cut as many unnecessary features as possible. But I would think that a $399 80GB would outsell both a $399 40GB and $499 80GB combined. Also silver's a good idea, I've always preferred it to black.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Saving on those, plus usb, wifi, and whatever else they can save on, would be more than $100 mill over 5 million units sold.... $100 mil might not be much for you, but is significant for Sony...

If they then charge $100 less for it, that's $100 million in the positive and $500 million in the negative.

 

[DiddyBop]

they basically just need to un bundle motorstorm and include a 2nd sixasis controller to get rid of all the old stock to make way for the new dual shock next spring. and of course,drop the price of the 80gb to 400.

 

[jonabbey]

wtf?

Lexus is Toyota's luxury marque. The Toyota Avalon and the low-end Lexus sedan are basically the same car, but you pay $10k more for the Lexus for the privilege of the name.

Or some such.. I'm not sure about the precise numbers, but they do get a lot of money for that Lexus badge, all other things being equal.

 

[McGarnagle]

If they then charge $100 less for it, that's $100 million in the positive and $500 million in the negative.

Yeh, costs savings from removing a couple of usb ports or wifi is insignificant. The commodity costs for those controller chips are next to nothing. even the difference between a 40gb HD and a 80 gb harddrive is minor.

Significant costs savings for Sony will only come from a Cell/RSX die shrink and somehow achieving better efficiency at producing BD drives. These are the major costs components according to the teardown.

 

[Lightning]

If Sony don't lower the price, regardless of how much loss they take, the PS3 will fail and the entire project will be dead. Sony need to make the choice to take losses now and have the PS3 selling long term or keep the outrageous high price and have sales drop more and more each week until the console slowly dies. The big exclusives will not do anything on a console that is failing, it is as simple as that.

 

[tanod]

If they then charge $100 less for it, that's $100 million in the positive and $500 million in the negative.

It all depends on how much marketshare they plan to "buy" with that money, as all pricing promotions are evaluated.

 

[Elios83]

Ok October 12, Europe (Italy), PS3+Spiderman3 Blu Ray bundle, price TBA.
PS3+300 and PS3+ Pirates of the Caribbean: At the World's end to follow.
Starter Pack could be discontinued.

 

[spwolf]

Lexus is Toyota's luxury marque. The Toyota Avalon and the low-end Lexus sedan are basically the same car, but you pay $10k more for the Lexus for the privilege of the name.

Or some such.. I'm not sure about the precise numbers, but they do get a lot of money for that Lexus badge, all other things being equal.

i know that... I am just interested to see what car is Avalon related to... since you are wrong. It is Camry and ES350, and once you sit in ES350 you would never think it shares the platform with Camry.

Thinking that Toyota JUST calls one Camry and other one ES350 borders with insanity.

 

[Doc Evils]

Ok October 12, Europe (Italy), PS3+Spiderman3 Blu Ray bundle, price TBA.
PS3+300 and PS3+ Pirates of the Caribbean: At the World's end to follow.
Starter Pack could be discontinued.

Really? interesting...

 

[SRG01]

Ok October 12, Europe (Italy), PS3+Spiderman3 Blu Ray bundle, price TBA.
PS3+300 and PS3+ Pirates of the Caribbean: At the World's end to follow.
Starter Pack could be discontinued.

Day one purchase

Spoiler

but I already have a PS3

 

[tanod]

Ok October 12, Europe (Italy), PS3+Spiderman3 Blu Ray bundle, price TBA.
PS3+300 and PS3+ Pirates of the Caribbean: At the World's end to follow.
Starter Pack could be discontinued.

Source: Your ass?

 

[Elios83]

Source: Your ass?

I'd like my ass to be such a valuable source but I'm afraid it's not :lol :lol :lol

http://www.gamestar.it/showPage.php?template=News&id=12419&argomento=PlayStation+3&feed=1

And they're not talking out of their ass, just to stay in theme
The news comes from Andrea Cuneo,Marketing Manager of SCE-Italy (he's well known among italian gaming websites).
He said that the Starter Pack is a limited edition and it's coming to an end.
When asked if the new bundle will be cheaper he replies: "Emm we're thinking about it".

 

[Wollan]

I want to believe.

 

[Elios83]

Update number two now with official PR from SCE-Italy:

PS3 bundles announced today:

PS3+ Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
PS3+ Spiderman 3 BR
PS3+ Pirates of the Caribbean: At the World's End BR

Price TBA

PS2:
Gamer's Pack (PS2+memory card+Tekken5) and Starter Pack (PS2+ memory card+ 2 controllers)
149€

PSP:
PSP Slim&Lite + Harry Potter and the order of Phoenix
PSPSlim&Lite Spiderman Edition (red&black)+ Spiderman3 = 189€
PSPSlim&Lite Piano Black+ Tekken 5 DR or MotoGP= 179€

 

[DiddyBop]

If Sony don't lower the price, regardless of how much loss they take, the PS3 will fail and the entire project will be dead. Sony need to make the choice to take losses now and have the PS3 selling long term or keep the outrageous high price and have sales drop more and more each week until the console slowly dies. The big exclusives will not do anything on a console that is failing, it is as simple as that.

Hear him!

 

[Robinspain]

I think that the bundles are different depending on where you live. For example, in Spain there's going to be these packs:

PS3 + PRO 6
PS3 + RATCHET

PS3 + FIFA 08 (only for "Game" shops)

I wonder how much are going to cost these packs. If the starter pack (with 2 pads, 2 games) costs 599 e, thes packs MUST be cheaper....

 

[Elios83]

Yup it seems like SCEE won't introduce a new PS3 model but will go with the 60GB model bundled with a game or a BR movie this holyday season. There will be a price adjustement for sure, these bundles cannot have the same price of the Starter Pack and we're going to find how much cheaper they are in the coming weeks...or days.

 

[marwan]

i guarantee everybody that a 40GB PS3 version is coming soon, just wait and see!

 

[Elios83]

i guarantee everybody that a 40GB PS3 version is coming soon, just wait and see!

In Europe? That is probably true with the US. SCEE has not the same problems SCEA had, they have not an expensive model on the market to get rid of, the market hasn't rejected the price as strongly as the US. A single SKU with different bundles and a lower price seems the way for them.

 

[marwan]

Source: Your ass?

no, his mom.

 

[Kosma]

Pleaseeeeee be cheaper pleeeeeaseeeee.

My best mates are going on a 3 hour train trip tommorow to get a PS3 for 444 euro here in the Netherlands (2 pads, no games). I'm still undecided if I should bite with these new packs on the horizon.

 

[tanod]

i guarantee everybody that a 40GB PS3 version is coming soon, just wait and see!

Spill if you got new info or GTFO. Mods ban people for saying shit like that.

Case in point: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7983446&postcount=62

 

[marwan]

In Europe? That is probably true with the US. SCEE has not the same problems SCEA had, they have not an expensive model on the market to get rid of, the market hasn't rejected the price as strongly as the US. A single SKU with different bundles and a lower price seems the way for them.

i'm confident the U.S would get the 40GB version, dunno about europe.....i hope they do too.

 

[Kosma]

Argh I'm so torn....should I:

-Get a PS3 tommorow for 444 euro with 2 pads and no games
or
-Wait for 100 euro price drop bundle and with my store discount get a PS3 with a game for 436 euro? (But I'll have to wait for a 100 euro price drop...it must happen right...right?)

 

[duk]

I am sooo ready for this bad boy to drop.