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PS3 custom firmware issue linked to PSN access
- Thread starter Garcia
- Start date
ThatChairMan
Member
I am curious as to what effect this would have on PS3 online multiplayer games. I don't know much about CFW for the PS3, but would it be likely that cheating in online games would become more prevelant?
Cosmo Clock 21
Banned
I recall fail0verflow trumpeting that the keys they discovered were also unpatchable without a hardware revision, but that obviously didn't turn out to be the case. I'll wait a few weeks before declaring the PS3's security model busted open again.
Well, its seems to me someone with a CFW console running game hacks can play online. That can be a problem.
Jmanunknown
Member
I hope all this hacking does not make Sony go all crazy with the PS4 in terms of security.
It is probably safe to say because of what happened with the PS3 something like other os will probably never happen again on a console. I hope Sony does not go with proprietary hard drives like they did with memory cards on the Vita. They will probably lock down the ps4 tight and be as restrictive as possible without being draconian or overbearing.
It is probably safe to say because of what happened with the PS3 something like other os will probably never happen again on a console. I hope Sony does not go with proprietary hard drives like they did with memory cards on the Vita. They will probably lock down the ps4 tight and be as restrictive as possible without being draconian or overbearing.
You don't need new CFW to play online.
You don't need CFW to have cheated stats in games.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
Would it be possible for Sony to have the PSN servers run a check on the PS3 unit as its logging into PSN to make sure its legit? And just autoban accounts that are on cfw?
I'm not just talking about current fw version number, but other things it could look at too.
I'm not just talking about current fw version number, but other things it could look at too.
Zoe
Member
They've identified accounts on CFW PS3's before, but they've never acted past sending out warning letters.
I thought games would require higher firmware to play online, what exactly is the point of this crack then?
And you can certainly use exploits in games, but i'm talking about actual mods hacked into the game. Also if this allows access to PSN store i'm wondering what someone could do with that. Wonder if this will cause changes to the new PSN store.
This is to be able to play games built/patched with newer firmware. Pretty much nothing else.
Being able to now access PSN like a normal console is a byproduct.
CrashPrime
Member
I'm not entirely sure the OP understands what this even is.
"PS3 custom firmware issue linked to PSN access"
PS3 custom firmware issue? What issue?
And how is this issue linked to PSN access?
What has happened here is the LV0 encryption keys have been leaked, and more up to date CFW has been released allowing games that require newer firmware to play without special eboot patches.
PSN access on 3.55 has been around for at least a couple weeks if not more (through firmware, and also F***PSN).
This has NOTHING to do with PSN, other than the by product of being up to date is PSN access is restored.
Also, unless I am wrong, a simple update of the LV0 keys close this hole right up, and we are right back where we started with 3.55, after the keys were changed.
"PS3 custom firmware issue linked to PSN access"
PS3 custom firmware issue? What issue?
And how is this issue linked to PSN access?
What has happened here is the LV0 encryption keys have been leaked, and more up to date CFW has been released allowing games that require newer firmware to play without special eboot patches.
PSN access on 3.55 has been around for at least a couple weeks if not more (through firmware, and also F***PSN).
This has NOTHING to do with PSN, other than the by product of being up to date is PSN access is restored.
Also, unless I am wrong, a simple update of the LV0 keys close this hole right up, and we are right back where we started with 3.55, after the keys were changed.
I believe that its impossible to change the lv0 keys. What is possible is to activate the lv0.2 which was introduced with the slim and was meant for an issue like this.
KojiKnight
Member
This... Lv0 can't be changed. It's not a matter of compatibility, it's the fact that it's read only. It's designed that way to prevent people from altering it to begin with. As I said, even if you COULD change it, it wouldn't do any good. It's the first step in the chain of trust of the PS3, it would take using the lv0 to decrypt and apply those changes, and since this article claims we have lv0 access, we can then do the same and get the new codes
I honestly don't know anything about a lv0.2 so I can't comment on that. I imagine the original slim models probably don't have it either (though since I don't know, I could be mistaken), and is probably related to why newer PS3 systems can't be downgraded.
zerokoolpsx
Member
So cfw ps3 can finally connect to psn. Wouldn't be surprised if Sony started banning them for going online.
woah, didn't think about that.
Still I thougth that teh encryption was on the vita so the ps3 is acting liek a PC, just providing space for the vita nothing else.
umm..link to the discussion?
KojiKnight
Member
As mentioned earlier, CFW ps3's have been on PSN again for the last month or so, this didn't help with that.
chesskid: Link please? From what I understood, all the files for Vita titles are encrypted except for when they are on the system itself... That's why the Vita has complete control over what files get transferred over/etc. Not sure what Sony would have ever gotten with storing unencrypted files on the PS3... unless the newest firmware for PS3 just happens to have keys for Vita software, but again that would make little sense to me, what need would the PS3 ever have for unencrypted Vita games?
Not saying you're wrong on this, but I'd definitely like some more info.
(edit) Lol beaten.
http://wololo.net/talk/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=18097
not much intelligent discussion, but after all the CFW just came out.
but i wouldnt be surprised in the future, they'll learn how to grab the PS VITA files off a ps3, let you copy it to your ps3, then copy it to your vita. hacked ps3s, of course. hopefully this is not the case, tho, idk. they just need a hole to get into the vita.
who knows how much info they can get off the ps3, the "hub" of the vita.
KojiKnight
Member
Color me flabbergasted... Sony actually doesn't fully encrypt the files on the PS3... The eboots are of course still encrypted, but it's not like when you put the files on PC where everything is encrypted.
In other words, the games are per-system encrypted. They won't run on other people's vitas, but they lack whatever PC encryption that Sony's software manager does on top of that.
I imagine Vitas also "call home" on any unregistered PSN game sitting on the card to make sure it's purchased (like when you switch user accounts on it)
Awesome that is called psp2 lol
endresults
Member
So Slims on >3.55 firmware are SOL without a complicated downgrade while fats can be CFW'd regardless of firmware revision?
My 2 fat PS3 just went up in price
Reading wololo, he says that some of the slims may not have this. Still we don't know how Sony made the changes. After all the failures to protect the ps3 I wouldn't discount the lv0.2 not working or something like that.
KojiKnight
Member
Speaking of the wololo article, I don't see it posted here on this thread, correct me if I'm wrong so here.
http://wololo.net/2012/10/24/ps3-blown-open-scene-chaos-lv0-keys-leaked-and-working/
Much more indepth/detailed/etc than my take.
(edit) Reading this some more I'll drop a few more interesting points since it was brought up a few posts ago (for those that don't want to read the long article)
The only systems with lvl0.2 are the newer 3k models and super slims, any system that could have downgraded to 3.55 will work. Only the newer slims and super slims will be effected by lv0.2 and it looks like something that won't get a solution... but with the rest of the system ripped open, there could be hope for other user mode exploits.
(edit 2) Also I was mistaken on the chain of trust. bootldr and metldr come before lv0. Good to know. Either way it's still not changable in OLDER consoles (older slims and phats) but apparently IS on the lv0.2 enabled slims/super slims.
http://wololo.net/2012/10/24/ps3-blown-open-scene-chaos-lv0-keys-leaked-and-working/
Much more indepth/detailed/etc than my take.
(edit) Reading this some more I'll drop a few more interesting points since it was brought up a few posts ago (for those that don't want to read the long article)
The only systems with lvl0.2 are the newer 3k models and super slims, any system that could have downgraded to 3.55 will work. Only the newer slims and super slims will be effected by lv0.2 and it looks like something that won't get a solution... but with the rest of the system ripped open, there could be hope for other user mode exploits.
(edit 2) Also I was mistaken on the chain of trust. bootldr and metldr come before lv0. Good to know. Either way it's still not changable in OLDER consoles (older slims and phats) but apparently IS on the lv0.2 enabled slims/super slims.
endresults
Member
I've been looking through it a bit as well, and it seems right now that 3.55 firmware is required to do any of these CFW flashes, and if you want to downgrade, you need an expensive flasher. This doesn't sound like a massive Sony checkmate to me, unless this is the beginning of what is possible.
KojiKnight
Member
The best way to think about this would be like a Zelda dungeon. You first have to find out how to get into the dungeon, usually some item unlocks it. In this case, that's lv0. With lv0 we can get inside the dungeon. Now the dungeon is filled with all sorts of locked rooms we can't get into just because we got into the dungeon. Luckily, we know the keys to all the seperate rooms are somewhere in here... some keys are locked behind other doors, but like every good Zelda dungeon, no key is inaccessible. It just takes time and a lot of exploration.
That's the first big hurdle. Once you have all of that, then you can begin your investigations properly. Maybe once everything is unlocked they'll find a nice exploit that will directly let them sign some code that can be run on any machine. Not likely, but far from impossible. If such a convenient thing doesn't exist, they at least now have access to all of the hardware again on the latest firmwares and they can begin looking and accessing exploits.
So no, this isn't an immediate magic solution to CFW on machines that are up to date on OFW, but it is the largest step in that direction since the first dongles appeared.
fafahlada: He shows dumping a PSN game he bought on Vita (in this case, Uncharted: GA) to PS3 and then dumping the files from his PS3. I'll go through it again later to double check, but it sounds like he's just using the regular way to copy vita games to PS3.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Quick, everybody panic, it's absolutely nothing!
KojiKnight
Member
Dumping a game doesn't do anything useful by itself. 3DS games have been dumped since the first 3-6 months of the system's release.
You still need a Vita exploit to be able to run these, and the only Vita exploits in the wild are all PSP related.
jediyoshi
Member
Quick, everybody panic, it's absolutely nothing!
One would think a game company would care that one of their systems has been opened in such a way that games could now be dumped from it.
I understand that. But it certainly seems like an inevitability at this point.
KojiKnight
Member
Depending on what can be found lurking in the latest PS3 firmwares... this is true. Honestly if it does I'll be kind of surprised. Not that it happens, but I kind of pegged 3DS getting fully hacked first.
Systems getting hacked are all an inevitability, it's actually pretty impressive on Sony for how they dealt with metldr being dumped/exposed by GeoHots and everything that came from that so long.
Actually I misread your original post, I thought you were inferring this has some implication on download packages (which are encrypted differently).KojiKnight said:
Are the Vita->PC backups really encrypted though, or is it just packed in some non-standard container? When it comes to restoring backups - IIRC both devices phone home before you can copy(that's why content-manager requires internet access).
CadetMahoney
Member
Most probably.
it takes so long that it can only be being encrypted on the vita prior to the copy.
That's most likely a result of slow USB interface.
It's equally slow copying to PC and ps3. It is also the same speed as copying data without drm, or copying between PSPgo and PC/ ps3 which has no encryption.
test_account
XP-39C²
There isnt much need for a PS3 in this process. The PS3 just acts like a Content Manager as far as i know, which also excist for PC. The PC is a wide open platform and you can already view all the files there. No need to go through the PS3 first when you can do the exact same thing with Vita to PC directly.