Microsoft's Azure backbone is certainly ready for this. I'm not sure Gaikai is. It's not designed for this, but yeah, they could totally leverage its power if they wanted.
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PS4 Architect Mark Cerny: 'Cloud won't work well to boost graphics'
- Thread starter Audioboxer
- Start date
Microsoft's Azure backbone is certainly ready for this. I'm not sure Gaikai is. It's not designed for this, but yeah, they could totally leverage its power if they wanted.
Games look worse with Gaikai so he is on to something.
I think that issue shouldn't need to be clarified anymore by now. I mean it was clear it was complete BS from the start, not only intuitively, but there were many articles in many places shooting it down.
Smooth.
Smooth.
The Faceless Master
Member
what about pseudo-dynamic re-baked lighting!?!?!?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
faulty logic all over the place.
'cloud' isn't a microsoft invention, but azure, the cloud technology that will be powering the xbox one online component is completely owned and operated by microsoft.
Sony does not have an azure, your post is flat out wrong.
dragonelite
Member
GI from the sun is something you could do on the cloud hardly latency sensitive. Shadows and sun direction aren't things that change fast If you do 60~120 min day night transition. There are algorithms/simulations that could be done on the cloud so they don't have to take GPGPU resources.
There are quiet some latency between pulling and releasing your control trigger and seeing your grenade getting thrown, in that time the server could have calculated the impact and physics simulation before the grenade reaches a wall and explodes. There are several latency hiding mechanic devs can use i believe Gow:A makes extensive use of those techniques to hide latency in multiplayer.
Question is how much performance is given to the devs and how easy it will be to implement it. If you have multiplayer with 32 players the server can run one simulation push the data to the 32 players and let the engine only render the data maybe buffer two or more states to interpolate between the states like almost every mmorpg out there.
In the end $$$ says it all, if its too expensive it wont be used.
There are quiet some latency between pulling and releasing your control trigger and seeing your grenade getting thrown, in that time the server could have calculated the impact and physics simulation before the grenade reaches a wall and explodes. There are several latency hiding mechanic devs can use i believe Gow:A makes extensive use of those techniques to hide latency in multiplayer.
Question is how much performance is given to the devs and how easy it will be to implement it. If you have multiplayer with 32 players the server can run one simulation push the data to the 32 players and let the engine only render the data maybe buffer two or more states to interpolate between the states like almost every mmorpg out there.
In the end $$$ says it all, if its too expensive it wont be used.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
It could however make gfx better indirectly, by offloading AI work to "the cloud", free up some gpu work and allow for better gfx, no?
I wonder if sony is ever going to use gaikai to power up some ps4 games, why shouldn't a games distant background be a streamed hi-def video or based on cloud calculations?
I wonder if sony is ever going to use gaikai to power up some ps4 games, why shouldn't a games distant background be a streamed hi-def video or based on cloud calculations?
You're going to have to explain what you mean by that...If it's anything that needs to be updated every frame or even every second, than no. Not without a massive laundry list of potential issues and obstacles that would not only complicate the development process, but also open the flood gates for all manner of things to go wrong if you get bandwidth issues, a drop out, someone else using your connection etc. Then devs need to start worrying about fall backs to the point where it's just nonsensical and they might as well use local level hardware which is going to do that stuff much better with bandwidth thousands of times faster and more appropriate.
Gaikai is NOT Sony's one and only cloud.
It's a specific cloud service which, IIRC, is about proprietary video encoding and decompression so users can play games just streaming the video. Imagine it more like you holding your PS3 controller and you are in the toilet. You can't see your TV but you have a Web cam pointed to your TV in the living room and so you bring your laptop, Web cam to the living room and play your PS3 'remotely'. Gaikai in this case is a technology that focuses on making the video stream data as small as possible so the lag is not too bad. It will look grainy and be laggy in poor network conditions. What I described is certainly the case for OnLive.
Microsoft 's Azure is general purpose and not gaming specific, just like Amazon's ECW cloud computing.
Whatever Microsoft does on the cloud, Sony can do too. Actually to be more specific, whatever Bungie does on the cloud, Naughty Dog can do too. There is nothing exclusive here.
Yeah, that's a good point actually. It would result in improved graphics. Just indirectly.
I know, exactly. But still, I think it's their best shot. They've got a ton of servers with Gaikai and they can be multi-purposed to perform these tasks.
NemesisPrime
Banned
True... but Sony doesn't own the infrastructure. It will cost them. Also MS has the low level APIs build into their OS at the moment... I expect a lot of cloud integration the next 5-10 years.
Windows 8.1 is already doing this.
No
Templar_Dante
Banned
Cerny is a genius in a field where Im not the sharpest tool. I think he knows more than PR guys like Major Nelson and Dan Greenawald and the rest of the suits at Redmond.
AI is quite latency-sensitive as well, unless you're fine with ennemies reacting to what you're doing with a big delay (which won't work well unless it's turned based).
FUD spread by posters like yourself should be actively monitored.
I have 7 years in MMO gaming industry experience and I'm highly familiar with cloud computing. You?
Azure is a fake magic secret sauce, it's not what you are making it out to be.
Not when it's full of clouds.
Tripolygon
Banned
I think what he is getting at is
1. Azure is not exclusive to Xbox one, any developer can pay for it and use it.
2. There are other companies like Amazon and Google that offer similar services.
Sony does not need to own a cloud compute service to use one.
What does that even mean?
Yes. Microsoft PR.
dragonelite
Member
Credentials?
MS a couple of times, directly.
And saying stuff like "essentially your console will be 4x as powerful with the cloud" is extremely misleading, and straight up BS unless they'd precise that it would be for very specific things. Which they haven't of course.
It's a service and they can use it as a customer, however unlikely that is... Apple does. Azure in itself isn't necessarily xbox exclusive technology.
I'm open to a Mod verifying me privately. Bring it.
Well the yacht did have some tubs..
The Faceless Master
Member
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Oh god, post this thread on Neowin. I am banned from Neowin now but I want to see it implode.
*edit* nevermind saw you already did.
They had to. They're releasing a console a good degree less powerful than it's main rival, whilst charging a good amount more for it at the same time. They had to fill in the gap with some sort of PR spectacle. Disingenuous but not surprising.
I smell confidence.
perineumlick
Member
Don't MMOs use cloud computing more than just about any genre of game?
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
That is true, how about npc AI or damage on road tracks in a car racing games like burnout or motorstorm...RPG damage calculations... some games skybox?
Actually i don't really believe that cloud computing could do much in therm of gfx or that it's actually worth the effort, but i'm trying to find at least some light of hope
SneakyStephan
Banned
just some technobabble i made up on the spot... it was supposed to be funny
I thought it was funny.
dragonelite
Member
You don't have to.
But so much trolling and stuff going on that its hard to know what is serious and what is not.
Tripolygon
Banned
Playing MMOs does not a Server Engineer make, unless he is an actual Engineer.
Maybe because MS's shitty Cloud PR campaign made some people believe their lies? Also I dont see anyone mad in here, all you XBone stans really are seeing things
There's quotes and a link on the previous page that proves otherwise. Unless you regard lighting as something unrelated to graphics lol...
Neuromancer
Member
Some people don't like being lied to.
Because they are pushing bullshit and lying to people? It's the people that actually KNOWS that have the most reason to get annoyed and angry about it.
So we shouldn't believe MS even tho they said they have infinite power from the cloud for better looking games? What else should we not believe from them?
Even then, I would not get mad and rather just point and laugh at their stupid shenanigans.
Getting madder and madder seems like stooping to their mornonic level.
So you believe everything they say is true? I mean, PR is there for a reason.
faulty_fork
Member
I can't see why it would have to be any bigger delays in reactions than when you're playing against real people online. Should work perfectly fine for AI.
You make it sound like people are sitting here, yelling at their monitors and frothing around the mouth. I don't see anyone doing that? People will just call out their bullshit as long as they are spewing it - That has nothing to do with anger and not even close to 'stooping to their level'. You can't blanket statement that opinion because you don't care about a company lying to their customers, some do and it's fair game.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
what the fuck? What am I making it out to be?
read my post again and read it in the context of the person I was responding to.
Jesus, you act like you spent 7 years playing MMOs instead of talking to people and using your manners.
I have 13 years experience in the IT field and I'm also highly familiar with 'cloud computing'
Microsoft owns and operates Azure and as such will be able to leverage (and customise) that as much as they want to push their own system. That is fact. As for how well cloud computing will benefit consoles, I make no statements there.
I'd say a mod could already probably verify you being an arrogant ass.
perineumlick
Member
Well he didn't say that he had 7 years experience playing MMOs; he said he has 7 years experience in that field, which leads me to believe he had some hand in creating said MMOs.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't see anyone getting all that mad in this thread, certainly there haven't been any meltdowns.
Calling corporations out on their bullshit is important, I think.
From the sort of replies I read, I do wonder that about certain users.
I wasn't even advocating for not doing that, though