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[Etnos]

In a heavily multi-threaded program (which next-gen games will be), it absolutely does. Sure, that 2-core Intel CPU might beat the PS4 CPU in single-threaded tasks at the same clocks, but once you start utilising all the cores it's just going to be blown away by anything with 8 cores from AMDs side.

Not really treads can be adaptive to cores, Instruction Per Clock is what matters. Intel is way ahead AMD on IPC.

AMD is putting a bunch of cores because that's.. what you do (I guess), when you don't have the resources to develop a strong core.

Example the Intel still beats AMD FX (8 core) with 4 Cores for heavy traded apps such as Vray rendering. 8 AMD cores can beat 4 intel cores.

Again is about the amount of IPC (Instructions Per Clock), MHz and Cores kinda mean little nowadays.

 

[Etnos]

What a bizzare comparison.

Yes, Haswell even in a ULV package is faster than Kabini.

Ya I know its kinda bizarre.. but if we talking about Engineering marvels, I would say even a Ipad retina is more impressive than a PS4.

It pushes more pixels than 1080p it also has: great wireless + LTE + Hefty battery life, in a tiny slim package.

The PS4 is fine and dandy, but it is pretty much a glorified mini ATX with mediocre APU, oohh and a blu-ray.

 

[iamshadowlark]

Not really treads can be adaptive to cores, Instruction Per Clock is what matters. Intel is way ahead AMD on IPC.

AMD is putting a bunch of cores because that's.. what you do (I guess), when you don't have the resources to develop a strong core.

Example the Intel still beats AMD FX (8 core) with 4 Cores for heavy traded apps such as Vray rendering. 8 AMD cores can beat 4 intel cores.

Again is about the amount of IPC (Instructions Per Clock), MHz and Cores kinda mean little nowadays.

Its either or. Its a tradeoff.

 

[Reg]

I don't understand why people are bashing the tech. It's perfectly reasonable for a $400 console. If people want something more expensive then they have to realize that user adoption is gonna be slow and that won't be healthy for the industry.

 

[Threi]

WiiU is also pretty impressive for its size.

 

[strata8]

Again is about the amount of IPC (Instructions Per Clock), MHz and Cores kinda mean little nowadays.

Cores absolutely do matter if you can utilize them properly. Which will certainly happen with the PS4.

Ya I know its kinda bizarre.. but if we talking about Engineering marvels, I would say even a Ipad retina is more impressive than a PS4.

It pushes more pixels than 1080p it also has: great wireless + LTE + Hefty battery life, in a tiny slim package.

The PS4 is fine and dandy, but it is pretty much a glorified mini ATX with mediocre APU, oohh and a blu-ray.

The PS4 APU has the most powerful GPU (by far) of any APU on the market. Not exactly what I'd call 'mediocre'.

 

[LeBoef]

Gaf and its ps4 is like

 

[Usobuko]

I don't understand why people are bashing the tech. It's perfectly reasonable for a $400 console.

Less if you take away the cost of the controller and accessories.

 

[c0de]

Wow, is that a real photo of the inside of the Xbox One? Gross. So much wasted space.

what? where? i think the design is pretty straight-forward and i don't see much wasted space. but please go search the pic showing the mainboard and show me what you would've done better.

 

[Serandur]

No I realise that the Gpu in his laptop is much more powerful, but my point was that many PS4 exclusives will still look better than the best his Alienware will be able to muster. Closed platform, dedicated development and budget etc. Add to that, despite the stronger specs it'll still have that ram shortfall.

Debatable, in a closed boxed system vs a PC that is. 4-5 years from now its very possible PS4's GPU will be doing things that two 7970m would struggle to do at the same framerate. Especially if QD Sorcerer demo is any indication.

The closed platform development benefits are not likely to improve performance anywhere close to over 2 times to fill in the gap between these two GPU solutions of the same architecture (likely even the same chip, specifically, give or take some minor differences such as disabled CUs and clock speed), let alone surpass it. General optimizations, as we've been seeing over the course of the previous console generation, benefit performance on both console and PC versions and unlike with anomalies such as the PS3's Cell processor, there is no learning curve for even PC developers to tackle with the PS4's standard PC-based architecture to lend any console-specific performance boosts as the platform ages.

This same discussion was had back when Nvidia's 8800 line was released. The 8800 GPUs had a similar performance advantage over the PS3 and 360 as crossfire 7970ms would have relative towards the PS4 and yet, the 8800GT, for example, commands the same performance advantage over the PS3 and 360 as it always did. The only specification I could see making a difference in relative performance between that laptop and the PS4's GPU would be VRAM utilization, given that crossfire 7970ms only have 2GBs of VRAM to work with, but at the same time, I question the PS4 GPU's capabilities to even utilize significantly more than that amount. That is a debatable aspect as are both its effect on relative performance and just how much, specifically, touted closed platform benefits will truly improve PS4 GPU performance. However, it is pretty much fact that closed platform development benefits will not allow a GPU to overpower a PC counterpart (of the same architecture, no less) with over 2x as much raw processing ability.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

CPU wise a Core i5 is way faster than a Jaguar. That's not bias... Jaguar core is slower than a Phenom II a 7 year old architecture.

The GPU is faster than the HD5000 but not that much faster than you would think.

Again check benchmarks.

The ps4 GPU is incredibly more powerful than the shitty hd5000. I've been following GPU tech for over a decade and the power difference between the two is not even remotely close. It gets curb stomped by the ps4 GPU that has a 1840 gflop GPU vs the 704 gflop hd5000 intel GPU.

 

[badb0y]

The ps4 GPU is incredibly more powerful than the shitty hd5000. I've been following GPU tech for over a decade and the power difference between the two is not even remotely close. It gets curb stomped by the ps4 GPU that has a 1840 gflop GPU vs the 704 gflop hd5000 intel GPU.

That's not even taking into account the difference in memory bandwidth. APUs benefit a lot from higher memory bandwidth which is the primary reason why PS4 went with GDDR5 as system memory and Microsoft decided to implement the ESRAM.

 

[strata8]

The ps4 GPU is incredibly more powerful than the shitty hd5000. I've been following GPU tech for over a decade and the power difference between the two is not even remotely close. It gets curb stomped by the ps4 GPU that has a 1840 gflop GPU vs the 704 gflop hd5000 intel GPU.

GFLOPS aren't the best metric. The 7870 for example only has 250% more GFLOPS than the HD 5000 but performs 700% faster in reality.

 

[diehard]

That's not even taking into account the difference in memory bandwidth. APUs benefit a lot from higher memory bandwidth which is the primary reason why PS4 went with GDDR5 as system memory and Microsoft decided to implement the ESRAM.

hd5000 has embedded ram

GFLOPS aren't the best metric. The 7870 for example only has 250% more GFLOPS than the HD 5000 but performs 700% faster in reality.

please dont tell me you are citing 3dmark as reality.

 

[strata8]

hd5000 has embedded ram

The HD5200 does. Not the HD5000.

 

[AkIRA_22]

That's the funniest gif I've ever seen. I was laughing my ass off on the bus, people were starting at me and the middle aged woman in front of me turned around.

 

[Dorimukyasuto]

It's a sexy beast, to be sure.

Every time I see it, the thing looks sexier.

 

[Brofist]

I'm not too keen on the shape, but the size truly is amazing especially considering no power brick.

 

[strata8]

please dont tell me you are citing 3dmark as reality.

Fair enough.

The 7870 is 600% faster in Battlefield 3.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

No I realise that the Gpu in his laptop is much more powerful, but my point was that many PS4 exclusives will still look better than the best his Alienware will be able to muster. Closed platform, dedicated development and budget etc. Add to that, despite the stronger specs it'll still have that ram shortfall.

Exlusives looking better is completely irrelevant. PS4's high graphic output is, indeed, a benefit of the closed platform, not magic engineering. You should compare the raw specs on paper to claim it as an engineering marvel.
Just like one should look at manufacturing costs, not retail prices. The PS4 will make its profit from software licences and online, so the 399 isn't comparable to laptops. They haven't priced it that way out of sheer benevolence and magic.
Thread makes me think PS4 is more of an economics marvel.

 

[Caayn]

A mid range 2012 GPU and a netbook CPU is an engineering marvel? Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with this.

 

[miso_Jeff]

Certainly I'd rather lean on the positive side than the negative side on this stuff. Sony is much better at constructing their hardware than Microsoft is. We get it though, you've been very outspoken about the PC, everyone knows about its advantages! Most PS3 people I know had a PC in addition because it was the perfect complement.

I'm still surprised, confused more than anything, that PC gamers have decided to jump into the "console wars." I wasn't in the forums when the PS3/360 was out, but were PC guys actively down playing the consoles or touting the power of they're GPUs?

 

[sonny21004]

A mid range 2012 GPU and a netbook CPU is an engineering marvel? Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

This.

 

[Spy]

This.

I'd like to see Battlefield 4 run on a PC with these "low-end" specs.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

The closed platform development benefits are not likely to improve performance anywhere close to over 2 times to fill in the gap between these two GPU solutions of the same architecture (likely even the same chip, specifically, give or take some minor differences such as disabled CUs and clock speed), let alone surpass it. General optimizations, as we've been seeing over the course of the previous console generation, benefit performance on both console and PC versions and unlike with anomalies such as the PS3's Cell processor, there is no learning curve for even PC developers to tackle with the PS4's standard PC-based architecture to lend any console-specific performance boosts as the platform ages.

This same discussion was had back when Nvidia's 8800 line was released. The 8800 GPUs had a similar performance advantage over the PS3 and 360 as crossfire 7970ms would have relative towards the PS4 and yet, the 8800GT, for example, commands the same performance advantage over the PS3 and 360 as it always did. The only specification I could see making a difference in relative performance between that laptop and the PS4's GPU would be VRAM utilization, given that crossfire 7970ms only have 2GBs of VRAM to work with, but at the same time, I question the PS4 GPU's capabilities to even utilize significantly more than that amount. That is a debatable aspect as are both its effect on relative performance and just how much, specifically, touted closed platform benefits will truly improve PS4 GPU performance. However, it is pretty much fact that closed platform development benefits will not allow a GPU to overpower a PC counterpart (of the same architecture, no less) with over 2x as much raw processing ability.

Just out of curiosity, what settings and framerate does a 8800gt run BF3 or Crysis2/3 at?

 

[Tiduz]

sony should use NOCTUA fans =D

 

[Ushae]

Lets wait to see how hot/loud it gets and what the failure rate is.

I'd also like to see this. The design is impressive, sleek and sexy looking. But the lack of ventillation part from the rear is a little worrying. Then again these parts don't really run that hot?

 

[Raist]

I'd also like to see this. The design is impressive, sleek and sexy looking. But the lack of ventillation part from the rear is a little worrying. Then again these parts don't really run that hot?

What lack of ventilation?

 

[Hypron]

Just out of curiosity, what settings and framerate does a 8800gt run BF3 or Crysis2/3 at?

It can't run Crysis 3 because it's a DX11 game only, but it can run BF3/Crysis 2 on settings comparable to what you have on consoles, at a locked 30 fps in 720p (or maybe a bit above, like 1280*1024). I used to have a 9600GT (which is about as powerful) until last year and I could play pretty much all the recent games as long as I used a resolution lower than 1080p and low/medium settings (I had 2 screens: a 1280*1024 and a 1440*900, and I could use them in their native resolution). When I bought a 1080p display I had to buy a more recent card though (HD6770).

 

[Elios83]

The fact that PS4 is based on a SOC with a low power CPU made me think since the beginning that the box would be similar to the PS3 Slim (2009) in terms of size and TPD.I was definetly not expecting something like the PS3 fat.
But actually they did a bit better than the original PS3 slim so kudos to them and the design is really nice.
It's the Xbox One design which seems really conservative and not really console-like. It's like they turned back and designed the console as a compact PC as they did with the Xbox1.

 

[Perkel]

A mid range 2012 GPU and a netbook CPU is an engineering marvel? Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

And is there any SoC with that kind of power ? Protip: No.

High performance SoC generates more heat than your "netbook" hardware. There isn't any SoC on PC market that is even comparable to that.

 

[freefornow]

Gaf and its ps4 is like

Spot on!

 

[Acheteedo]

I'm really worried it's going to be loud. There has to be some kind of downside... surely?? Can Cerny really cram all that power into there and have it be quiet?

I bought my PS3 at exactly the wrong time when they were cutting back on components, it sounds like a hair dryer when super demanding games are on.

 

[TheContact]

I like how Yoshida said that it looked like the second or third generation of consoles--that was my thought exactly. It already looked like the Slimmed down version of a PS4. It truly is a work of art.

 

[Durante]

I'm really worried it's going to be loud. There has to be some kind of downside... surely?? Can Cerny really cram all that power into there and have it be quiet?

Think of it like a gaming laptop -- since that's about the TDP range of the hardware -- and compared to that, it actually has more than adequate space for cooling.

 

[Kosma]

I'd like to see Battlefield 4 run on a PC with these "low-end" specs.

Exactly, something pc fanboys seem to ignore.

 

[omonimo]

Not really treads can be adaptive to cores, Instruction Per Clock is what matters. Intel is way ahead AMD on IPC.

AMD is putting a bunch of cores because that's.. what you do (I guess), when you don't have the resources to develop a strong core.

Example the Intel still beats AMD FX (8 core) with 4 Cores for heavy traded apps such as Vray rendering. 8 AMD cores can beat 4 intel cores.

Again is about the amount of IPC (Instructions Per Clock), MHz and Cores kinda mean little nowadays.

A lot of people need a shower of humbleness here.

 

[strata8]

I'm really worried it's going to be loud. There has to be some kind of downside... surely?? Can Cerny really cram all that power into there and have it be quiet?

I bought my PS3 at exactly the wrong time when they were cutting back on components, it sounds like a hair dryer when super demanding games are on.

It should be fine. The two chips in the PS3 had a total die size of 495mm2 (Cell 235mm2 + RSX 260mm2). The APU in the PS4 by comparison should be around 310mm2 (CPU 100mm2 + GPU 210mm2), and if the CPU is clocked at 1.6 Ghz it'll consume hardly any power at all (like, 20W).

 

[Hypron]

Exactly, something pc fanboys seem to ignore.

It's not what those people are talking about though. They are just talking about the TDP of the PS4. The fact that its power can be used more efficiently than a PC has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

[Caayn]

And is there any SoC with that kind of power ? Protip: No.

High performance SoC generates more heat than your "netbook" hardware. There isn't any SoC on PC market that is even comparable to that.

The PS4 is not a SoC. It's a custom made APU system designed around existing jaguar and ngc cores from AMD. And let's say that It is going to generate 150~200 watt. My laptop with a stronger cpu and weaker gpu generates 130watt in a much smaller environment than the PS4 and most likely a much smaller fan than the PS4.

The reason that it has that "much" power is because the software is specifically written for that closed system. Which greatly boosts the the systems graphical output.

The PS4 is not an engineering marvel!

 

[Hermii]

Good to know. How long would it reasonably take for PC components to drop in price enough to make something with specs for a similar (or cheaper!) price?

You would need a superior specs PC to get similiar performance.

 

[sublimit]

I'll wait to hear if there are any overheating issues first before i'm impressed that much...it must have smaller fans than the ones in XBone right?
If it works fine then it is an engineering marvel.

 

[Cosmozone]

That innards look really nice. Comparable to Gamecube's, that also looked very tidy.

 

[Durante]

The PS4 is not a SoC. It's a custom made APU system designed around existing jaguar and ngc cores from AMD. And let's say that It is going to generate 150~200 watt.

That's unlikely.

The PS4 is not an engineering marvel!

It may not be a "marvel" like e.g. an ultrabook is, but compared to XB1 I can see how it would look like alien technology!

 

[strata8]

The PS4 is not a SoC. It's a custom made APU system designed around existing jaguar and ngc cores from AMD.

Do we know this? The Xbox One isn't an SoC (there's a separate chip for the IO) but I haven't heard anything about the PS4.

Regardless, it's still the most powerful single chip CPU+GPU (or APU, whatever) in existence right now.

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

A mid range 2012 GPU and a netbook CPU is an engineering marvel? Must be nice to be so easily impressed.

You sir are a waste of DLC

 

[eival]

while gloating about how awesome an engineering feat it is to be smaller than hardware developed 10 years ago, have they even announced yet if the PS4 will have full game install capabilities?

i feel like most journalists dont think of this as a major feature and havent actually asked/addressed any Sony officials during the entire E3.

the fact that the PS3 still doesnt allow it baffles me, unless they've recently made changes im sure when i finally get around to playing Last of Us and even Beyond 2 Souls later this year ill still be having to worry about the possibility of a disc read error interfering with my gameplay..in 2013

microsoft has already confirmed its going to mandate it, let alone offer it as an option which they offer now with 360 since their 2008 firmware update, but thats DVD media, both consoles will be BluRay from now on and i have a feeling theres going to be a 2nd BluRay based generation of Playstation consoles released later this year and still requiring games to be played live off disc.

journalists are more worried about thinking up edge case scenarios surrounding the Online DRM issues as if the % of gamers possibly effected by those cases are anywhere near the amount who experience the wide range of DRE issues, even with brand new clean discs because random errors can happen with digital technology but it can be completely avoided.

 

[Jeanmamadou]

I know it's conspiracy thinking but it feels like MS made it purposely big for making it easier to slim Xbox One V2.

 

[PAULINK]

I really hope neither console will have heat issues this gen. It seemed almost inevitable a few years ago after the 360 debacle.

This is the absolute thing I am most worried about. I hope the ps4 has good heat dissipation.

while gloating about how awesome an engineering feat it is to be smaller than hardware developed 10 years ago, have they even announced yet if the PS4 will have full game install capabilities?

For the 360, this feature was awesome because games were a lot smaller in size. But I really hate how they are mandating full game installs for the Xbox one, just seems wasteful. I wouldn't mind a partial install, but I don't want to install the whole damn disc. Imagine if games were generally 20 gb in size, the HDD will fill up fast and leave no space for other content.

 

[androvsky]

while gloating about how awesome an engineering feat it is to be smaller than hardware developed 10 years ago, have they even announced yet if the PS4 will have full game install capabilities?

i feel like most journalists dont think of this as a major feature and havent actually asked/addressed any Sony officials during the entire E3.

the fact that the PS3 still doesnt allow it baffles me, unless they've recently made changes im sure when i finally get around to playing Last of Us and even Beyond 2 Souls later this year ill still be having to worry about the possibility of a disc read error interfering with my gameplay..in 2013

microsoft has already confirmed its going to mandate it, let alone offer it as an option which they offer now with 360 since their 2008 firmware update, but thats DVD media, both consoles will be BluRay from now on and i have a feeling theres going to be a 2nd BluRay based generation of Playstation consoles released later this year and still requiring games to be played live off disc.

journalists are more worried about thinking up edge case scenarios surrounding the Online DRM issues as if the % of gamers possibly effected by those cases are anywhere near the amount who experience the wide range of DRE issues, even with brand new clean discs because random errors can happen with digital technology but it can be completely avoided.

I suspect it's because Sony said that games would install in the background at the February reveal. There's no way a system with 8 GB of RAM is loading straight off a 6x Blu-ray; the game disc is basically an install disc plus authenticator, 360 style.

On a side note, have you gotten disc read errors on a PS3 disc-based game? I don't think I ever have, and I'm not sure if I've heard of anyone else having random errors outside of the drive going out. And it's not like hard drives never die either...