how odd that everything youre "stating" is always going in sonys favor no matter what
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PS4 Neo presentation might have leaked
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
how odd that everything youre "stating" is always going in sonys favor no matter what
Dash_Riprock
Member
I mean, they ARE outselling MS 2:1 worldwide, and the gap in the US is almost at 2 million.
Anothertech proves, decisively and on a daily basis, his need to be on my ignore list. He's one salty dude.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I'd rather the 8tf with Zen be the PS5 vs this half step.
I'm for shortening the actual generations vs doing a half step to drag shit out. PS4 Hardware into 2020 is gonna be ugh.
What is the argument you're trying to make here? That Neo launching a year before Scorpio will mean most people wanting a more powerful console (and only willing to purchase one) will get the Neo now rather than wait the extra year for the more powerful Scorpio? If that's the argument you're making, I definitely see some merit in it, however you must also consider that the difference between games on PS4 and PS4 Neo will also not be as noticeable without a 4K TV. Therefore, for the same reason that people would not be willing to upgrade to Scorpio for the perceived difference between it and Neo that would only be noticeable with a 4K TV, consumers may use the same reason to not purchase a Neo until they have a 4K TV, in order to significantly experience the benefits of the better hardware (in this case over the PS4 they already have).
I'm not an expert on the 4K TV market and when adoption is expected to pick up steam. However, let's go with the assumption that we are still at a small level of adoption and thus most consumers in the market for these new consoles would not be able to fully experience the benefits of the graphical fidelity offered by the newer hardware. If we are to then use this assumption to further assume that most of the consumers who have not yet adopted 4K TVs will wait to buy one or both of the newer consoles until they have first purchased a 4K TV, you would stand to reason that people may wait to purchase Neo and potentially not have purchased 4K TVs until after Scorpio comes out or near its launch. I think the question then becomes, which console do they buy if they are only going to buy one? It doesn't all come down to power of course, price and games matter too. It remains to be seen how the two consoles will stack up in all regards so we simply don't have enough information to make such predictions, but I think your premise may be slightly flawed based on what I've stated above.
geordiemp
Member
I have a 4K TV and 2 Ps4's in the house, and I have no interest in 4K gaming yet, hell we are still waiting for 1080p to be done right on console.
Unless Neo runs games better in 1080p, then I cant justify the change.
If Scorpio comes out and devs start offering 60 FPS (high bandwidth and a powerful CPU, big IF), then that would make me swing back to MS.
If neither console results in noticeable improvements at 1080p, then who cares ? We wait another 3 years for a proper CPU / GPU combo, or go PC.
Unless Neo runs games better in 1080p, then I cant justify the change.
If Scorpio comes out and devs start offering 60 FPS (high bandwidth and a powerful CPU, big IF), then that would make me swing back to MS.
If neither console results in noticeable improvements at 1080p, then who cares ? We wait another 3 years for a proper CPU / GPU combo, or go PC.
wapplew
Member
Scorpio already launch, its call PC. We can play all the Scorpio titles, first party, second party, third party games now.
Unless they decided to make Scorpio exclusive, I guess the wow factor already gone.
AetherZX
Member
Sign me up for that Sunset Overdrive PC version.
anothertech
Member
Cause Sony is doing it right? MS keeps fcking things up?
Im platform agnostic, just easy to see the hands being played from my side.
LukasTaves
Member
Who said anything about making exceptions? The scenario I'm talking about goes like this:
- Xbone support is mandatory until xbone 2 is launched. Then it becomes optional, but now Scorpio support is mandatory;
- Scorpio is a half way jump to xbone 2, so it won't limit the games;
- Xbone however might, and for those games/developers they will be able to not support it anymore.
- But for those who do, since it's uwp it's going to be literally the same game (save for better performance and visuals on xbone 2), but it's a single package that you only have to buy once and play on both (not Bc, but the actual version from each platform)
Jimmy Rustle
Banned
Any gamer that wants to play in 4k, real native 4k, with good graphics and framerates. No jaguar cpu cores, no upscaled/chess board rendered 4k, no 30fps, and you want it now...Come to PC!*
/SugeNight1995TheSourceAwardsBadBoyDiss
*Needs a GTX 1080 or two to achieve consistently.
Pathfinder
Member
A quick glance at your post history makes me question this statement.
Although i won't be buying a NEO, i want Sony to give PS5 full BC with NEO compatible titles, so i can pop in my games and see automatic improvement compared to vanilla PS4. In that way, i'm actually interested to see how things will go.
But as for investing in a NEO or Scorpio, seems pointless being shackled to PS4 games in a mandatory fashion is only one of the reasons i am not interested, but i can also understand why people would take the extra power regardless to see some better performance and IQ
But as for investing in a NEO or Scorpio, seems pointless being shackled to PS4 games in a mandatory fashion is only one of the reasons i am not interested, but i can also understand why people would take the extra power regardless to see some better performance and IQ
MilkyJoe
Member
By your own logic Ps only gets to be lead platform for 1 year out of ever 4, going forward.
Also, how is releasing 1 year later going to add 3 years to the cycle
Because plaform agnostic, duh. Pretty easy to see the hands being played and all.
MilkyJoe
Member
I did have a little chuckle after seeing him claim that after the post I quoted.
Bitch Pudding
Member
2:1 is actually pretty good for MS, given PS4's success. They did't get crushed like during the PS2 era, when they were outselled ~6:1.
No, the real problem for MS is that XBOX One sales peaked within it's first year and keeps on declining, while PS4 sales are still growing (Sony estimated 20 mn additional units this year alone, basically the whole LTD XBOX One tally).
And that's why wee see an XBOX One S right now, and that's why MS throws in the Scorpio just 4 years after XBOX One's launch. From this point of view, it's MS acting and Sony reacting.
gundamkyoukai
Member
How is Sony reacting ?
They are bringing out Neo this year and they are kicking MS ass.
MS is acting yes but that is because they have no choice same for nintendo .
That is call reacting to the market \market leader .
I wish people would stop saying this, because it's not true. XBO selling (less than) half of what the PS4 has isn't in any way good. It's bad. It has very much underperformed.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I am not saying they performed as they expected, they just didn't get crushed in a market where the main competitor pulls out a PS2-esque performance. That's all.
MS handed them that success. Weaker console, more expensive, horrible messaging and marketing, console that wasn't focused on gaming at launch. The ps4 is an all around superior product (I have both not cheerleading).
Scorpio being announced seems to me like MS putting everyone and Sony included on notice that they are coming back to gaming both fists loaded. If neo comes out with weak specs things could easily swing back just like they did with the 360.
Sony also killed it with marketing and message. Not to mention that huge partnership with destiny.
Xbox One would have had to been better than PS4 and probably cheaper for it to win at world wide numbers. It was weaker, more expensive, and had the whole PR fiasco on top. So I doubt corporate projections were anywhere near 40 million now. What would projections be? Probably not 35 million. Probably not even 30? What would be a sensible projection?
Now my point isn't that it didn't perform badly, my point is that it's not as bad as "doing 20 million when it was expected to do 40" as you imply. Now if it was better than the PS4, cheaper, and no PR fiasco, and THEN it did 20 milion, then that would be very, very bad.
Unless I misunderstood?
Oh, also, not to mention that if Xbox One was as good as PS4, each would do 30 million correct? So that would be the ceiling for projections in a good situation?
wapplew
Member
R&D cost for making powerful hardware with on shelf part is low, it's like making new Surface, Lumia or Valve making steam box, not really a big commitment.
Opening 3-5 new internal studio or acquire a couple big name studios, to me, is the bigger statement, telling the whole world they are commit and coming back to gaming.
Your first mistake was saying PS4's level of success was only due to MS fucking up. It wasn't. There's just not enough people interested in Xbox in general. They would have lost regardless of if MS pulled out the best launch they could have.
Your second mistake is acting like what MS does now with Scorpio is resetting their fortunes when it is not. Power generally, isn't what gave PS4 its success, and it won't help Scorpio how your thinking it might. Just because NEO is the weaker of the optional iterative consoles means generally little when it comes to price, availability, ecosystem, and other things.
Umm, what?
The reasons are sort of irrelevant to the basic question of has it or has it not done badly. It has. Its been a huge disappointment to MS. Everything about its initial strategy has failed. All the additional benefits it was supposed to bring MS never materialized. It was sold to MS brass as their way to dominate how media is consumed. That never happened.
It's not like both systems were released and MS went "well of course we need to throw out all of our plans and predictions, our product sucks!"
No. What MS has now is a distant second place game console. None of that is what they wanted, or what they thought they were making.
Hydrargyrus
Member
hehe... No
It was outselled 6:1 when it was the first xbox and when no one knows them, a lot of developers bypassed them and when PS2 was... the only console.
Being outselled by your first competitor in all the markets (and outselled in US too) and by more than double sure it's not what they want and, by far, nothing near "good".
The xbox brand is, probably, in it's worst situation since the launch, but this time without all the buzz around the launch.
Sony and PS4 are the ones who make the sound, MS (Idk what is Nintendo doing) is only dancing that sound. Scorpio is a later response to PS4Neo. Sony, again, has the upper hand
Bitch Pudding
Member
Yeah, there are still too many who truly believe that power ist the single most important purchase driver.
It isn't. It isn't even close to that. Which should be apparent, if you paid any attention within the last 30 years.
As I said earlier, personally I'd prefer Sony would come up with a 6 TF SKU in 2017 as well. But from a market perspective I have no doubt that a $400 Neo in combination with a $300 vanilla PS4 is going to kill any momentum MS tries to build up with XBOX One S and Scorpio.
anothertech
Member
Sure it does. If Sony was fcking up as bad as MS in the last 3 years, I would have given them the same amount of flack. Like I did during the early PS3 years.
Honestly, if you can't see how releasing a year earlier and keeping the message as clean as Sony has in comparison to MS is a good thing, you're just deluding yourself.
@milky- Neo releases in 2016. Scorpio in 2017. PS5 is releasing in 2019, 2 years later. Xbone2 2020, 3 years later. That's all I meant.
I was responding to your oddly cryptic messages that PS5 is not close. I was making a point that Scorpio is also not really close, being 1.5 years away. And really isn't a full generational leap of magnitude from what we have now, much less so from the Neo that's right around the corner.
I don't see how that's such a fanboy thing to say. Your comments conversely scream blatant fanboyism to me, like quite a few others in this Neo information thread. But maybe that's just imo.
MilkyJoe
Member
That last sentence is just your wishful thinking
Come on. MS actions probably impacted how big the difference is, but it didn't hand Sony the win. Sony managed to outsell 360 despite being late, more expensive, more difficult to program for, and usually having the worst performing versions of multi platform games.
PlayStation simply has a stronger brand and consumer preference. Not being late, being less expensive, being easy to program for, and usually having the best versions of multilateral titles (literally an about face in all aspects vs PS3) will have helped them be ahead in the US and UK but I'd say that's about all.
MilkyJoe
Member
You have literally no idea when PS5 is out, you are making it up as you go along. I'm going to be sensible and say these iterations are going to be on 4 year cycles. That will put the next PS 2020, if Neo actually comes out this year, that is not close.
gundamkyoukai
Member
If Neo comes out this year that would be 3 years since PS4.
Truth is when PS5 comes out will depend on how good Neo does and what effect it has on the market .
But if we go by a normal gen PS5 should be out in 2019\2020.
That was what I always had in mind, I wasn't even considering going from arbitrary resolution to another independent arbitrary resolution. I agree that that would be much more difficult, but I don't think it's necessary. (People on PC could easily get more granularity than that anyway if they want/need to by e.g. reconstructing to a larger DSR resolution)
As long as the target resolution is freely selectable and the source scales with it I'll call that "resolution independent".
anothertech
Member
Are you actually trying to say your guess is better than mine? LOL, honestly listen to yourself. Every dam comment on this forum about Neo, Scorpio or fcking NX is someone blowing smoke and making sht up my friend. Including yours.
I am making speculation going by a three year timeline. In Xbox case it may actually be a 4 year like you say, but Sony seems to be on a 3 year.
This speculation is every bit as valid as yours.
I think the iterations will vary based on available technology upgrades and pricing. 14/16nm is a new node for large GPUs (and completely new for APUs) so the time of release is practically dictating the approach - if Sony want to be out now, they get a smaller chip for acceptable yields which means a 'PS4+'. MS waiting until maybe the end of 2017 gives time for processes to mature and yields to improve which means costs come down or they can do a larger APU for a similar price.
That might mean Sony will not want to wait four years after neo. Even three years might be pushing it. They'll want to do something when the price is right and the tech is capable. They will also be looking at 10/7nm and how that is progressing. I don't thnk it'll be ready in time for a PS5 in 2019/2020 for large chips, so Sony may end up repeating the PS4 and going with an APU towards the end of the 14/16nm lifetime
MilkyJoe
Member
And I'm saying 4, the fact that it's 3 since PS4 makes me wonder why Neo is even a thing, with its lack luster specs.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Sony is the market leader and wanted to try a new business model .
With a die shrink they thought it would be a good time which happen to be 3 years .
Therefore MS had no choice but to the bring out a new console .
They decide to wait a year to get more power \ better parts or pricing .
wapplew
Member
Lets see the price before we call it lack luster. Bang for the bucks mostly the best selling, not the most powerful.
irrotational
Member
hehe... No
Neo and Scorpio are different strategies on what the mid-cycle inflection point should be for consoles.
Sony have chosen 4k non-gaming content as their point to release a new model and bumped the power a bit.
MS have hedged their bets with two models, a 4k content machine this year, and a 4k gaming machine next year.
The Scorpio is not a delayed reaction to neo, both manufacturers probably had to make a decision soon after the one/ps4 launch.
anothertech
Member
4 would be Holliday 2017. Sony isn't doing that. MS is. And lackluster specs? When we don't know the specs? Who is making sht up now? Neo and Scorpio could be a lot closer than you think specs wise.
If Sony updates on a 3 year schedule, and MS at 4, Sony will always be a few steps ahead. That's a smarter hand played IMO.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
The difference in sales is increasing. Like you said, Xbone sales peaked at launch. This was the reason why people could pretend that the Xbone was on the same sales trajectory as the Xbox 360. That's going to change. Since MS has lost the European market completely and PS4 will outperform Xbone in 2016/7 with the Neo, PSVR and probably a cheap PS4 Slim, the sales ratio will skew to Sony even stronger.
Another thing: in most of Europe, that sales ration is a PS2 like 4:1 or higher already. Being the cheaper option won't help when European consumers don't want it in the first place.
Obscuritas
Member
Don't play with my heart.
wapplew
Member
Not to mention they completely drop the ball on emerging market like Asia or middle east.
MilkyJoe
Member
Don't you think 3 years between consoles is pushing it a bit value for money wise?
We know the specs, there'll be a wholes PS4 worth of disparity between them.
Sangetsu-II
Member
I honestly think Neo is Sony's XB1 S this year and may infact be working on a new console for 2017/8. They have always been comparing neo to a normal PS4 for people looking for a higher experience like XB1 S. Nothing is stopping Sony from releasing a PS5 once PS4 cycle as a whole has reached 5 years old (normally when new console are announced). If you decided to buy something there is nothing entitling you to deserve your product to remain for 10 years.
My bet is PS5 coming in 2018.
My bet is PS5 coming in 2018.
Obscuritas
Member
Implausible. If anything, Neo will extend the PS4's life.
Bitch Pudding
Member
I tried to visualize the upcoming roadmap of both platforms, based on a 3 year cycle for PS iterative model and 4 years for XBOX.
Now, obviously this is just an educated guess and obviously, things may turn out entirely different, but if you follow this line of thinking, I think there are some nice conclusions which can be deduced from this.
Most important is the clear positioning of the PS Neo SKUs as intermediary / beefed-up SKUs of their predecessors, while Scorpio seems to be more like a hybrid between a beefed up and a complete new gen console. That's why I called Scorpio's successor XBOX 5.
Furthermore, the different approach leads in a constant stream of new consoles within the next years, the biggest gap beeing the time between PS5 and PS5 Neo / XBOX 5 (3 years).
Now, obviously this is just an educated guess and obviously, things may turn out entirely different, but if you follow this line of thinking, I think there are some nice conclusions which can be deduced from this.
Most important is the clear positioning of the PS Neo SKUs as intermediary / beefed-up SKUs of their predecessors, while Scorpio seems to be more like a hybrid between a beefed up and a complete new gen console. That's why I called Scorpio's successor XBOX 5.
Furthermore, the different approach leads in a constant stream of new consoles within the next years, the biggest gap beeing the time between PS5 and PS5 Neo / XBOX 5 (3 years).
Sangetsu-II
Member
How so, entitled much?