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[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wig-XT8Rbiw

Because stuff like this is disgusting.

so a corporation being a corporation and over promoting/lying about the capabilities of their device means I cannot dream of what I want to see in next gen consoles nor dream of what I want to see next gen games to look like?

Nuts to that. I'm not going to live a grey world because a corporation lies lol. I choose to dream!

 

[ekim]

If watch dogs will look like the E3 demo I'm fine. It doesn't matter if the gpu is a little older. You can compensate a lot with on-the-metal optimizations which can't be done a pc due to the variety of gpu's out there.

 

[Reiko]

so a corporation being a corporation and over promoting/lying about the capabilities of their device means I cannot dream of what I want to see in next gen consoles nor dream of what I want to see next gen games to look like?

Nuts to that. I'm not going to live a grey world because a corporation lies lol. I choose to dream!

The lie can't work this time. PC's are already further ahead.

 

[i-Lo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wig-XT8Rbiw

Because stuff like this is disgusting.

While both MS and Sony had their share of trying to sell the press and rest pre-rendered stuff as real time, Sony was the worst offender. One is your example and then there is KZ2 which was even bigger. I think or rather I hope Sony have learned their lesson. I hope they are done away with "X amount of power means, we can do ABC" BS when we'll probably see none of it in real time game environment. I still remember their comment of how all the leaves had their individual sounds during their presentation. Not to mention the unnecessary tech demo of nVidia with the asian woman 3 wraith like creatures.

If they think they fool the crowd again with pre-rendered crap that'll never live up to its real time counterpart then I hope the press destroys them.

 

[Donnie]

BF3 launched in 2011. PS4 most likely will launch in 2014. You mean it will drive this at 720p@30fps? Your cellphone will be able to do this in 2014/15. Please do the math people

Please come back to reality.

 

[DieH@rd]

BF3 launched in 2011. PS4 most likely will launch in 2014. You mean it will drive this at 720p@30fps? Your cellphone will be able to do this in 2014/15. Please do the math people

You live in interesting dreamland. Ipad3 has between 20 and 25 Gflops of total computational power. Thats 10-15x less than 6 year old PS3 and X360. With Cortex A50 they will be able to reach ~60Gflops in late 2014, and 250gflops in devices that have 7-9hr battery life will be reachable much later.

 

[Melchiah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wig-XT8Rbiw

Because stuff like this is disgusting.

Yeah, it truly is...

Raven "Two to Tango" (original Xbox unveiling tech demo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FGeqomYUyU

 

[Racer30]

You live in interesting dreamland. Ipad3 has between 20 and 25 Gflops of total computational power. Thats 10-15x less than 6 year old PS3 and X360. With Cortex A50 they will be able to reach ~60Gflops in late 2014, and 250gflops in devices that have 7-9hr battery life will be reachable much later.

It was a joke and put on the edge to open some eyes a little!

Hell, we have had 1080p@60fps (wipeout HD) this generation...you guys dont expect ANY advancements in resolution/AA??

If the logic in this thread is anything to go by, the console part of the industri is in for a big decline! For getting the average consumer to buy a next gen console, it has to offer something next gen (something the average Joe sees, and not only nerds).
It would be great for cell phones and tablets as a gaming platform though.

 

[Reiko]

Yeah, it truly is...

Raven "Two to Tango" (original Xbox unveiling tech demo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FGeqomYUyU

lol

At least the we had something close to match it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJHdtAlM5I

Motorstorm is a real game.

And that was blatant CG

This is realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0_uJpOnmnM

 

[XtremeXpider]

Yeah, it truly is...

Raven "Two to Tango" (original Xbox unveiling tech demo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FGeqomYUyU

But Two to tango was a tech demo, the PS3 stuff pre-rendered videos.

lol

At least the we had something close to match it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJHdtAlM5I

Motorstorm is a real game.

The snow level is really awesome

 

[Mindlog]

It was a joke and put on the edge to open some eyes a little!

Hell, we have had 1080p@60fps (wipeout HD) this generation...you guys dont expect ANY advancements??

If the logic in this thread is anything to go by, the console part of the industri is in for a big decline! For getting the average consumer to buy a next gen console, it has to offer something next gen (something the average Joe sees, and not only nerds).
It would be great for cell phones and tablets as a gaming platform though.

The average consumer is exactly why 1080p @ 60 FPS will most likely not be standard. Resolution and FPS will be sacrificed to jam more effects into a single frame.

Similarly every sign from Durango and increasingly Orbis is pointing towards multi-tasking as a big part of the average consumer 'wow-factor.'

 

[Racer30]

The average consumer is exactly why 1080p @ 60 FPS will most likely not be standard. Resolution and FPS will be sacrificed to jam more effects into a single frame.

Similarly every sign from Durango and increasingly Orbis is pointing towards multi-tasking as a big part of the average consumer 'wow-factor.'

But this doesnt make sense....at all. You impress far more with being able to fill that 1080p check box. Both in image quality and marketing. (With 1080p sets being almost standard)

 

[BradleyLove]

But this doesnt make sense....at all. You impress far more with being able to fill that 1080p check box. Both in image quality and marketing. (With 1080p sets being almost standard)

I'd argue 1080p isn't needed.

I've been ploughing through Killzone 2 again and the CG intro movie looks astonishing on my 1080p plasma. It's only 720p but my god is it crisp and detailed.

I'd rather see IQ improve rather than resolution.

720p with Pixar movie IQ is more than good enough. Probably not possible next gen anyway, but for consoles I'd argue that the extra power needed for 1080p would be best spent on improving IQ instead.

 

[SapientWolf]

Native 1080p will be standard next gen, of course! Its ok to have low expectations but come on!

Graphics memory bandwith will increase tenfold or close to it, and the majority of tv sets out there will support 1080p in 2014...this is a no brainer! There is no better use of that fill rate/memory bandwith than going native resolution first and foremost.

Are you all here setting expectations unrealistically low so you dont get disappointed?

The jump from 720p to 1080p is a lot less noticeable in the living room than the jump from 30fps to 60fps.

 

[Racer30]

I'd argue 1080p isn't needed.

I've been ploughing through Killzone 2 again and the CG intro movie looks astonishing on my 1080p plasma. It's only 720p but my god is it crisp and detailed.

I'd rather see IQ improve rather than resolution.

720p with Pixar movie IQ is more than good enough. Probably not possible next gen anyway, but for consoles I'd argue that the extra power needed for 1080p would be best spent on improving IQ instead.

IQ and resolution are very related. You are comparing it to a pixar movie where they do high quality supersampling. (rendering at an insane resolution, and scaling it back down).

 

[hteng]

howabout the new consoles let us set the game's resolution at 720p or 1080p?

 

[Nizz]

I think Jeff's enthusiasm is fantastic and I enjoy reading his posts but i think he focuses far too much on 'cutting edge' tech news / leaks.

I think this console will have to be built for $500, with them taking a $100 hit and selling it at $400 to match the 720's launch price.

Expect the original leaks of a 4 Core AMD CPU, a 1.8TF GPU with 2GB's of Ram, which is still a pretty big power leap over the PS3 (Faster CPU, 4x Ram, 7x GPU power, faster BR Drive), if it's any better than that then fantastic but expecting massive bumps in Ram or GPU power just over a year from launch is setting people up for disappointment imo.

I'm expecting similar but a tad bit higher. I think it'll get to 4Gb of RAM, but I don't think it'll be GDDR5 like the early rumors suggested. I could see them getting into the 2-2.5 TFlop range (likely on the lower end) if they use the 8850 or 8870 as the base. Of course those will be underclocked.

Specs like that are enough to run something like BF3 on Ultra well over 30fps at 1080p. That kind of power in a console setting would be fantastic.

That would be awesome to me, honestly. If it could be 720p at 60fps it would be even better but I hope PS4 has enough overhead where a games like Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor could run at very high settings at a rock solid 30fps.

It depresses me sometimes how games nowadays struggle to even hit a solid 30 (on consoles).

 

[Gemüsepizza]

But this doesnt make sense....at all. You impress far more with being able to fill that 1080p check box. Both in image quality and marketing. (With 1080p sets being almost standard)

The only thing that doesn't make sense is your post. 1080 is 2.25x 720p. You need to sacrifice a lot of hardware power for this, which you could use for better effects. Do you honestly think something like this (with maybe a few more effects):

is more impressive than this?

That would be awesome to me, honestly. If it could be 720p at 60fps it would be even better but I hope PS4 has enough overhead where a games like Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor could run at very high settings at a rock solid 30fps.

It depresses me sometimes how games nowadays struggle to even hit a solid 30 (on consoles).

Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor:Warfighter are actually DX9/10 games with a few DX11 effects. I think most Nextgen games will have a much bigger focus on DX11/SM5, and look better.

 

[Racer30]

The jump from 720p to 1080p is a lot less noticeable in the living room than the jump from 30fps to 60fps.

Agreed, but it should be both.

 

[Racer30]

The only thing that doesn't make sense is your post. 1080 is 2.25x 720p. You need to sacrifice a lot of hardware power for this, which you could use for better effects. Do you honestly think something like this (with maybe a few more effects):



is more impressive than this?

Thats not quite how it works

You have to look at what kind of hardware power you need. For the effects shown in the UE4 demo, its mostly computational. For resolution its mostly fill rate and graphics memory bandwith.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Thats not quite how it works

That's exactly how it works. You need more power for 1080p. You have 2.25x pixels compared to 720p.

 

[Racer30]

That's exactly how it works. You need more power for 1080p. You have 2.25x pixels compared to 720p.

Read my post again.

 

[Nizz]

Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor:Warfighter are actually DX9/10 games with a few DX11 effects. I think most Nextgen games will have a much bigger focus on DX11/SM5, and look better.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Read my post again.

So you want to say that a resolution increase does not affect how many power you can use for graphic effects?

 

[HocusPocus]

so a corporation being a corporation and over promoting/lying about the capabilities of their device means I cannot dream of what I want to see in next gen consoles nor dream of what I want to see next gen games to look like?

Nuts to that. I'm not going to live a grey world because a corporation lies lol. I choose to dream!

The sad thing was people got banned from this board for pointing out Sony's BS ahah.

 

[Racer30]

So you want to say that a resolution increase does not affect graphic effects?

It can, but not always...and certainly not to the extent your pics illustrated. You are arguing more effects for lesser image quality. But if you look at whats setting real time graphics apart from CG movies today, its actually mostly image quality/aliasing. (Of course other things as ray-tracing ++ also)

 

[Globox_82]

Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 game development clearly happening now with EA

EA is among the largest and most successful publishers in gaming today, and their second quarter results not only reflected that, but they also indicated the amount of money EA is currently investing in next-generation gaming development.

According to a press release from EA today, they are clearly preparing and developing games for the Xbox 720 and Playstation 4 now; and a clear indication of that is the amount of expenses EA is currently showing in their Research and Development (R&D) department.

Whenever a company is working on next-generation projects, their costs tend to extremely go up in the R&D department and are the dominate expense. This is currently the case with EA.

If you look at the numbers, the three month outlook reveals EA is investing a total of $314 million in Research and Development, with then next closest department being Marketing and Sales, which is costing $212 million.

If that is not a clear enough of an indication, look at the six month outlook where EA is currently investing over $604 million into R&D expenses.

Over that same time frame, the next closest department is once again Marketing and Sales; however, this department only has $357 million being invested in it at this time.

You can make whatever assumptions you want, but EA is clearly deep into next-generation development at this time, much like they said they would be doing months ago.

http://www.examiner.com/article/xbo...ame-development-clearly-happening-now-with-ea

600$m into R&D? Was R&D that big in previous gen?

 

[i-Lo]

lol

At least the we had something close to match it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHJHdtAlM5I

Motorstorm is a real game.

And that was blatant CG

This is realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0_uJpOnmnM

Do you work for MS or something?

 

[SapientWolf]

Agreed, but it should be both.

How many GTX 680 caliber GPUs would they have to cram in the PS4 to run stuff with Agni's Philosophy levels of graphic fidelity at 1080p/60fps?

 

[Racer30]

Battlefield 3 and Medal of Honor:Warfighter are actually DX9/10 games with a few DX11 effects. I think most Nextgen games will have a much bigger focus on DX11/SM5, and look better.

Frostbite 2 engine is pretty DX11 as is!

 

[Racer30]

How many GTX 680 caliber GPUs would they have to cram in the PS4 to run stuff with Agni's Philosophy levels of graphic fidelity at 1080p/60fps?

If this run on a couple of 680`s on a pc, it should run on one in a console environment.

 

[SniperHunter]

I doubt we will get another Killzone CG or Motorstorm CG level bs again, especially for Sony. And both GG and Evolution have been working on next gen games for a while now anyway....

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Frostbite 2 engine is pretty DX11 as is!

Frostbite 2 is, but Battlefield 3 isn't.

 

[Reiko]

Do you work for MS or something?

Hell No.

And Team Ninja>>>>>>>>>Microsoft Tech Demo

They're still blowing minds now... Even without Itagaki.

 

[Racer30]

Frostbite 2 is, but Battlefield 3 isn't.

Hehe, what?

 

[onQ123]

How come people are still talking about the Killzone & Motorstorm videos when the Madden & Need For Speed videos was just as bad?

 

[Reiko]

How come people are still talking about the Killzone & Motorstorm videos when the Madden & Need For Speed videos was just as bad?

Madden 2006/2007 actually had better texture detail compared to the tech demo. Everything else... lol


Wasn't the Need for Speed CG spruced with ingame stuff?

I think part of the bullshit was it running in 60fps.

It runs at 45fps in 480p mode though.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Hehe, what?

BF3 was designed with current consoles (~DX9) in mind. A new frostbite 2 game which is designed to run on DX11 hardware only would probably look better.

 

[Lord Error]

But Two to tango was a tech demo, the PS3 stuff pre-rendered videos.

Two to Tango was originally absolutely 100% CG. Later on they made some crummy version of it that was a realtime demo.

 

[Afrikan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wig-XT8Rbiw

Because stuff like this is disgusting.

to Motorstorm's credit, each of the games in the series were pushing some of the best graphics around when they released.

The first Motorstorm (when played in hood cam) gave a similar sensation to that target render. It had amazing lighting, some of the most advanced destruction physics, and mud that splattered on surrounding areas realistically.

but yes, that trailer is PS4 type graphics....they shouldn't have went to far with it. They should've just said "this is what we are striving to achieve". But no, he head guys on top...lol....boy.

 

[Racer30]

BF3 was designed with current consoles (~DX9) in mind. A new frostbite 2 game which is designed to run on DX11 hardware only would probably look better.

PC was the lead dev platform from the beginning actually..and as you know Frostbite 2 is the graphic engine powering battlefield 3 and MOH.

Johan Andersson, rendering architect on FB2 at DICE released a pretty extensive DX11 pdf slide show some time ago, just google it. (From a talk he had at GDC 2011 i think it was)

 

[Reiko]

to Motorstorm's credit, each of the games in the series were pushing some of the best graphics around when they released.

The first Motorstorm (when played in hood cam) gave a similar sensation to that target render. It had amazing lighting, some of the most advanced destruction physics, and mud that splattered on surrounding areas realistically.

but yes, that trailer is PS4 type graphics....they shouldn't have went to far with it. They should've just said "this is what we are striving to achieve". But no, he head guys on top...lol....boy.

That's true.

But I will say that Killzone 2 came alot closer to reaching the aesthetic of the 2005 trailer.

The use of motion blur and QAA helped achieve that CG look.

 

[Apophis2036]

How many GTX 680 caliber GPUs would they have to cram in the PS4 to run stuff with Agni's Philosophy levels of graphic fidelity at 1080p/60fps?

The mistake people keep falling into again and again is comparing the PC platform to consoles.

To get a real time game that looks like Agni's Philosophy running at 1080p / 60 fps on PC would imo take a top of the range Intel CPU, 16GB's of Ram and a GTX 690 which is over 5.6 TFLOPs.

They will be able to get something that looks similar running on PS4 but it will run at 720p / 30 fps.

As many others have said developers will pick more graphical eye candy and engines like UE4, Agni's, CryEngine 3, 1313 ect over games being native 1080p.

To the average Joe HD is HD, 95% of consumers, maybe more don't sit around on forums comparing every little pixel like us.

Celebrate the fact that we will finally get native 720p resolution and a locked 30 fps instead of sub HD resolutions and frame rates that drop sometimes into the low 20's.

If you want 1080p native resolutions, 60 fps locked and the very best image quality then PC is your platform but it costs a hell of a lot and you will miss out on the big franchise console exclusives, a trade off im not prepared to make.

 

[i-Lo]

This pertains to GG and their optimization with KZ3. It's from a 38 min behind the scenes vid of sorts.

Look at the figures of RAM consumption and see how much headway the makers have had to have kept. I used to think that more of the 256 MB VRAM was in use but the results are very surprising for a guy like me, who isn't in computer science or game development who understands the ramifications of constraints put on texture budget to anticipate a contingency that'd drive up the consumption and in the process detrimentally affect on screen performance.

EDIT: Note the top centre displaying the framerate (before and after optimization)

Makes me wonder how much of RAM in next gen systems would have to be left unused for those unanticipated moments...

 

[jeff_rigby]

This pertains to GG and their optimization with KZ3. It's from a 38 min behind the scenes vid of sorts.

Look at the figures of RAM consumption and see how much headway the makers have had to have kept. I used to think that more of the 256 MB VRAM was in use but the results are very surprising for a guy like me, who isn't in computer science or game development who understands the ramifications of constraints put on texture budget to anticipate a contingency that'd drive up the consumption and in the process detrimentally affect on screen performance.

Makes me wonder how much of RAM in next gen systems would have to be left unused for those unanticipated moments...

With more RAM in next generation there are some optimizations that we are not considering. The worlds don't have to be drawn 100% on the fly, scene tiling is going to occur. Only those tiles that have changes will be redrawn, scrolling has tiles saved and reused when scrolling back into view. This is what Webkit is doing for accelerated composition and what I have read will be done in some game engines. What this means is there is less GPU work thus the resolution can be higher. All sorts of optimizations are planned for next generation.

Next generation has both hardware and SOFTWARE support for 1080P 60Hz planned in! If Sony wants developers to produce games @ 1080P and 60Hz it should be possible right? Brute force GPU power is not always necessary.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Two to Tango was originally absolutely 100% CG. Later on they made some crummy version of it that was a realtime demo.

What I mean is that MS don't showed a game, it was just a tech demo, but motorstorm and kz2 was showed as "it is a game, look, this is what you will get".

 

[AzaK]

Am I the only one not that impressed by these two games? Sure they look amazing but do they look that much better then TLOU, GOWA, beyond? I don't think so, and neither will to an average gamer. IF that is the target. I know it's unrealistic to expect the same kind of leap as in previous gens but still.

1313 looks quite nice but that's mainly due to the fluidity of the animation and the camera work. Look at the guy as he leaves the inside of the ship, just before he jumps. He exits from a the ship and runs across light but doesn't light up and the shadows don't run across him. Definitely not the be all and end all.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Advanced Micro Devices, Inc, or AMD, a semiconductor company, has announced its collaboration with Microsoft Corp for more than 125 Windows 8-based PC designs from OEMs including ASUS, Dell, Fujitsu, HP, Lenovo, Samsung, Sony, Toshiba and more.

Mainstream and ultrathin notebooks, tablets, all-in-one and traditional desktops, home theater PCs and embedded designs powered by the second generation AMD A-Series APUs and AMD Z-Series APUs

-- AMD Start Now Technology: AMD-powered Windows 8-based notebooks boot,
resume and respond faster than competing x86 solutions(1);
-- AMD Catalyst(TM) drivers compatible with Windows 8 featuring support
for DirectX 11, DirectX 11.1 and Windows Display Driver Model 1.2;
-- AMD AllDay(TM) Power enables consumers everywhere to experience
unmatched mobility with more than 12 hours of resting battery life on
their AMD-based device(2);
-- AMD Eyefinity Technology: a feature unique to AMD-powered PCs,
consumers can now span their Windows 8 desktop, user interface, games
and apps seamlessly across three or more monitors for a truly
immersive experience(3);
-- AMD App Acceleration: AMD Radeon GPUs with AMD App Acceleration let
you run multiple applications at the same time with remarkable speed
and reliability that provide enhanced performance beyond traditional
graphics and video processing. Customers running AMD-powered Windows 8
PCs can run desktop apps as well as new apps available from the
Windows Store and from AMD AppZone for a fast and fluid experience.

The above features should be in Game consoles too regardless of the OS. AMD Start Now is probably the 16 gig nand Flash mentioned as being in the PS4.

 

[°°ToMmY°°]

What I mean is that MS don't showed a game, it was just a tech demo, but motorstorm and kz2 was showed as "it is a game, look, this is what you will get".

No.

 

[RaijinFY]

The above features should be in Game consoles too regardless of the OS. AMD Start Now is probably the 16 gig nand Flash mentioned as being in the PS4.

Why consoles would need Eyefinity?
Why consoles would need AllDay tech?
Why consoles would need Catalyst?

Makes no sense at all...

Without Eyefinity, you can remove quite a nice amount of transitors insider the chip.