Support NeoGAF

[Tainted]

Ask me again why I would never give digital download serious consideration.

Oh right, because shit like this will happen.

I'm not sure how you can draw a comparison between a digitally distributed free demo and a disc based game. As mentioned earlier, the licencing and legalities are completely different once money has changed hands.

Having a disc based game also doesn't exclude you from Sony de-authorising titles. Nowadays, the disc is simply there for a check / DRM layer...all the game files still get installed onto the HDD

 

[chadskin]

Don't you need PS+ to download PT? That may be their "get out of jail" card, it's basically content offered through a subscription and stuff always gets deleted without much ado on Netflix, Spotify and other subscription-based services.

 

[Kinyou]

Great... Don't have a Ps4 yet but thought if I put it in my library I could get it sometime in the future. Fuck Konami

 

[Tainted]

Don't you need PS+ to download PT? That may be their "get out of jail" card, it's basically content offered through a subscription and stuff always gets deleted without much ado on Netflix, Spotify and other subscription-based services.

No, it was free to everyone

 

[Darkstorne]

Downloading it now. Seems fine so far. Still EU should do something about protecting us from digital content which we bought taken from us.

They did. They updated the consumer rights act to cover digital goods last year. If this was a paid title, Konami would be f*****.

"in relation to any digital content which is supplied under the contract and which the consumer has paid for, that the trader has the right to supply that content to the consumer"

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Why not cut out the last cut scene and the names. They did it before with the mgs franchise.

 

[Ganondorfo]

Remember when Silent Hill was one of the best things that happened to the video game industry. I will never forget year 1999-2004. Thats when Silent Hill was on a roll, nowadays without Team Silent, this franchise is kinda like Castlevania from that spanish team, its bad and they dont understand what made the franchise so special back in the day.

 

[Shtof]

Still got it on my hard drive. Can I sell my PS4 for a gazillion bucks now?

 

[double jump]

So whatever happen to that guy who was remaking PT with ue4? Lol
This is just a shame, this was the freshest game this gen.

 

[v1ncelis]

They did. They updated the consumer rights act to cover digital goods last year. If this was a paid title, Konami would be f*****.

"in relation to any digital content which is supplied under the contract and which the consumer has paid for, that the trader has the right to supply that content to the consumer"

Oh I missed that. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

That's not what that means. It doesn't mean they think it's legal, it means that if a third party acts illegally you are agreeing that Sony is not accountable for their actions. It's entirely between you and the third party (in this case, Konami).

As far as I can see, since it's a free title, there is no consumer protection here. If anyone tries pulling a paid title like this, they're losing a court case before it's even begun. No reason to worry about digital games vanishing like this in the future - especially if you live in the EU. Digital goods have equal consumer protection measures as physical as of last year.

I posted that EULA quote to show that Sony is not responsible. Since everybody agreed to the EULA before they downloaded this demo nobody can blame Sony, since they are not responsible.

And Konami's EULA states:

2. LIMITED USE LICENSE
Subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement, KONAMI hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one (1) copy of the Game Software solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use. ...... This license does not give you any title or ownership in the Game Software, and should not be construed as a sale or transfer of any intellectual property rights to the Game Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are hereby reserved by Konami and, as applicable, by its licensors.

This EULA is for paid games, but I guess can be used analogically on demos.
100% legal to remove PT, even tho it's shitty. We all agreed to the terms.

 

[Semajer]

What a shower of cunts. P.T. is fantastic and should remain up for download.

 

[pashmilla]

Dodged a bullet, the. I did think about deleting it but didn't in the end. Still, that's pretty harsh =/

 

[NewDust]

People were really expecting to be able to download PT indefinitly? Why would Konami keep spending money on promotion material for a canceled game?

 

[plake]

Still got it on my hard drive. Can I sell my PS4 for a gazillion bucks now?

At least!

 

[RealityCheque]

One final fuck you from me, to my good friends at Konami.

Really sad moves from them. They used to be a great company.

 

[giancarlo123x]

Screw you Konami, easily my least favorite gaming company in quite some time.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

No, it was free to everyone

You needed PS+ to download it in Germany I believe because R rated content has to be restricted somehow in that region (someone correct me please if that's not quite right) I don't imagine it changes anything legally though. Everywhere else it was offered to free to everyone with PSN account. Anyway I don't think there's anything stopping them from no longer offering the download in a legal sense.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

Still works for me in Finland (EU PSN).

I also tried downloading Battlefield Hardline Beta and Bloodborne Alpha, those still download fine as well, haha. I guess SCEE isn't taking things down even after they become useless.

 

[N30RYU]

downloading right from my library... spain.

 

[Darkstorne]

Konami's EULA states:

Subject to your compliance with the terms and conditions of the Agreement, KONAMI hereby grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited right and license to install and use one (1) copy of the Game Software solely and exclusively for your personal and non-commercial use. ...... This license does not give you any title or ownership in the Game Software, and should not be construed as a sale or transfer of any intellectual property rights to the Game Software. All rights not specifically granted under this Agreement are hereby reserved by Konami and, as applicable, by its licensors.

Consumer Rights Act:

Every contract to supply digital content is to be treated as including a term—

(a)in relation to any digital content which is supplied under the contract and which the consumer has paid for, that the trader has the right to supply that content to the consumer.

If this ever happens with a paid game, it's going to be one hell of a show. My money's on Konami losing, but I'll have popcorn ready either way.

 

[kiguel182]

This sets a really bad precedence going forward. If I have a license I should be able to download the game whenever I want even if it's removed from the store.

 

[Respawn]

Yup I redownloaded before it went away. This is the last silent hill folks as short as it is.
Me, my brother and sisters had a heck of time playing and solving it back then lol

 

[Nakkilokki]

I hope my PS4 never dies or I never get the urge to change the HDD.

 

[Zomba13]

I hope my PS4 never dies or I never get the urge to change the HDD.

So if I want to change the HDD I have to re-download everything and can't just copy everything over right? So I'm not stuck with the PS4 default HDD?

I was legit planning to upgrade but would rather keep PT.

 

[Rekki-Maru]

Still got it on my hard drive. Can I sell my PS4 for a gazillion bucks now?

hell yea, don't take a penny less than a cool gazill. Then buy Konami and save Silent Hills.

 

[The perfect Dark]

Silent Hill is never coming back.
Now I'm even fine with a HD collection release on PS4. I just want to play Silent Hill again.

 

[Kinyou]

People were really expecting to be able to download PT indefinitly? Why would Konami keep spending money on promotion material for a canceled game?

Publishers removing demos or games from the store is pretty common, but I don't think anyone ever made it impossible to redownload something. So it's pretty surprising to me they would go this far

 

[PtM]

They did. They updated the consumer rights act to cover digital goods last year. If this was a paid title, Konami would be f*****.

"in relation to any digital content which is supplied under the contract and which the consumer has paid for, that the trader has the right to supply that content to the consumer"

Another reason why F2P is a malady.

 

[Nakkilokki]

So if I want to change the HDD I have to re-download everything and can't just copy everything over right? So I'm not stuck with the PS4 default HDD?

I was legit planning to upgrade but would rather keep PT.

Well, I'm actually not sure. It might be possible to backup games as well.

 

[ShogunDarius]

Silent Hill is never coming back.
Now I'm even fine with a HD collection release on PS4. I just want to play Silent Hill again.

after the mess of the last gen HD collection, you might want to rethink that

 

[Sendou]

So is there any serious guesses regarding why they are doing this? Even removing the demo from store seems weird to me even if the final product would never materialize.

 

[DryvBy]

So yeah, I'll go ahead and post my 20th Anniversary PS4 with P.T. for $2,000,000 if anyone wants to start the bidding wars on eBay. I mean, it's a good deal.

edit: Oh, and look at this deal! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PlaySt...589?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa953b175

For an extra $20, they'll even clean the PlayStation of the caked layers of dust!

 

[Darkstorne]

They did. They updated the consumer rights act to cover digital goods last year. If this was a paid title, Konami would be f*****.

"in relation to any digital content which is supplied under the contract and which the consumer has paid for, that the trader has the right to supply that content to the consumer"

Another reason why F2P is a malady.

That would raise some very interesting questions. F2P only means you can play for free. There are always plenty of payment options to be made inside the game, at which point the consumer has purchased a digital product. I guess this usually falls into the MMO category though, where consumers are made well aware that the game is only available for so long as the servers are maintained, and it's always a limited-time deal.

 

[Castef]

Why would Konami stop people from playing this?

I think they actually pay money for keeping downloadable things on PSN.

Why keeping it if it promotes a dead game?

 

[Luke_Wal]

Just now realizing that I probably didn't re-download it when I had to restore my PS4 and wipe the hard drive...... Dangit.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

If this ever happens with a paid game, it's going to be one hell of a show. My money's on Konami losing, but I'll have popcorn ready either way.

It will be very, very interesting to see what happens in 5-10 years, when the first always-online game like Destiny get their servers shut down. This would make a Destiny disc pretty much a useless collection of 1's and 0's.
My bet is that there will be a huge outcry and from then on every game/console that you will buy will have a diclaimer like "running servers will only be guaranteed until 2020".

Pre-contract information requirements. Certain pre-contract information must
be given to the consumer before the contract is entered into. This information must
be clear and prominent. The list includes information about the digital content and
the systems or hardware it will work with, information on the total price, details about
cancellation rights (if applicable – see below), and information concerning complaint
and redress mechanisms.

If you (as a company) inform the consumer about a possible future server shutdown it's totally legal.
But it is fucking sad, that one day in the future my grandkids will find my X1 and PS4 in the basement and probably can't launch a single game because the license-check servers aren't running anymore.

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

So yeah, I'll go ahead and post my 20th Anniversary PS4 with P.T. for $2,000,000 if anyone wants to start the bidding wars on eBay. I mean, it's a good deal.

edit: Oh, and look at this deal! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PlaySt...589?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa953b175



For an extra $20, they'll even clean the PlayStation of the caked layers of dust!

Someone save that poor console

How could you let something get that filthy

 

[DryvBy]

I think they actually pay money for keeping downloadable things on PSN.

Why keeping it if it promotes a dead game?

You know, if they wanted to charge $3-$5 for me to keep it permanently in my download list, I'd do it. P.T. is one of the best legit horror experiences I've had since Silent Hill 2.

 

[Fugu]

I posted that EULA quote to show that Sony is not responsible. Since everybody agreed to the EULA before they downloaded this demo nobody can blame Sony, since they are not responsible.

And Konami's EULA states:


This EULA is for paid games, but I guess can be used analogically on demos.
100% legal to remove PT, even tho it's shitty. We all agreed to the terms.

EULAs do not supersede the law, regardless of whether or not you "agreed" (sort of a lofty term for ticking a box that you were forced to tick to take advantage of your $400 purchase) to it, so using the EULA to determine the legality of something is, at best, a shaky prospect.

 

[Darkstorne]

It will be very, very interesting to see what happens in 5-10 years, when the first always-online game like Destiny get their servers shut down. This would make a Destiny disc pretty much a useless collection of 1's and 0's.
My bet is that there will be a huge outcry and from then on every game/console that you will buy will have a diclaimer like "running servers will only be guaranteed until 2020".



If you (as a company) inform the consumer about a possible future server shutdown it's totally legal.
But it is fucking sad, that one day in the future my grandkids will find my X1 and PS4 in the basement and probably can't launch a single game because the license-check servers aren't running anymore.

Yep, very true. Fortunately there's a section in the law that protects us from the game provider changing those cancellation rights after we've bought their product, so this definitely would have been illegal if P.T. was a paid game.

As for license-checks on current gen consoles, I think that's only for first time activation. I moved home last month and had to wait two weeks for an Internet connection to be installed. I was able to play all my digital PS4 games offline, even Rogue Legacy which I had never tried playing before that point. So presumably activation is even handled during game installation, not the first time you run it. (Though this presumably only applies to primary PS4 consoles. If you have multiple PS4s using the same profile and game downloads, then I imagine only the primary one will play digital games offline).

 

[Lightning Count]

Still got my copy downloaded, is it not on any demo discs that came with magazines.

If there are I will hunt down a copy a keep it forever.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

EULAs do not supersede the law, regardless of whether or not you "agreed" (sort of a lofty term for ticking a box that you were forced to tick to take advantage of your $400 purchase) to it, so using the EULA to determine the legality of something is, at best, a shaky prospect.

You are right they don't if the terms in the EULA aren't lawful.
But there is no law that can prevent a company from adding a term like "we will only guarantee this game will work the next 4 years" to the agreement.
The EU can and probably will make companies disclose that information in a more prominent manner tho, if the public outcry is big enough.

I was able to play all my digital PS4 games offline, even Rogue Legacy which I had never tried playing before that point. So presumably activation is even handled during game installation, not the first time you run it. (Though this presumably only applies to primary PS4 consoles. If you have multiple PS4s using the same profile and game downloads, then I imagine only the primary one will play digital games offline).

PS4 is way better in that regard (I'm all-digital on both systems). MS makes you check the license at every launch of a game and doesn't let you launch the game if it is not updated. If both companies still exist I hope there will be a OS update/workaround before servers go black that validates you licenses permanently.

 

[Darkstorne]

You are right they don't if the terms in the EULA aren't lawful.
But there is no law that can prevent a company from adding a term like "we will only guarantee this game will work the next 4 years" to the agreement.
The EU can and probably will make companies disclose that information in a more prominent manner tho, if the public outcry is big enough.

Yep, but that length of time term has to be in there before the consumer purchases the game. There's a law preventing them from changing it, or adding a limited-time term, after the purchase has been made. Hence, if P.T. was a paid game, they would be breaking the law by removing it like this.

 

[GeNoMe]

Holy shit. I'm at work and as soon as I saw this thread, I phoned my wife and asked her to switch on my PS4. Went to the store and downloaded PT to my console, she confirmed that it was downloading.

I'm in the Netherlands btw.

 

[psychotron]

Glad I re-downloaded it the other day. Fantastic demo, and a shame Konami ruined it.

 

[RMI]

This is pretty shitty, but I suspect that eventually the emulation community will figure out how to save this thing for posterity. It probably won't be for a while, but it'll happen.

 

[Prezhulio]

Wow so psn now works like the AppStore, goodie. At least this was a free game, but not a great precident to set pulling something you are licensed to have.

 

[Hans.Gruber]

Yep, but that length of time term has to be in there before the consumer purchases the game. There's a law preventing them from changing it, or adding a limited-time term, after the purchase has been made. Hence, if P.T. was a paid game, they would be breaking the law by removing it like this.

Totally correct, a consumer has to know any limits pre-contract.
But as always there is a little backdoor in Sony's EULA, I really expect these to be forbidden. It's like a blank check for the company to screw over the consumer.

SCE reserves the right, from time to time, with or without notice to you, to change the terms of this Agreement. The most current version of this Agreement will supersede all previous versions.

But TBH we can assume that all these companies will want happy customers, that buy their shit. In the case of MS's DRM debacle we saw that companies will change policies quickly as soon as they fear losing money. Fans of NBA 2k14 got 2K to extend the up time of the 2k14 servers by 6 month, too.

 

[Snake017]