Was Rosa Parks a criminal or a victim?
Run away slaves?
Go on. Let's follow this train back to the station.
I wonder if you legitimately think that being gay and being black are basically the same as shooting heroin.
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Rachael Leigh Cook remakes her "Brain On Drugs" commercial
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I wonder if you legitimately think that being gay and being black are basically the same as shooting heroin.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Get those Jews out of your attic, otherwise you're a criminal.
What's race have to do with committing acts that were considered to be illegal at the time?
Aaronology
Member
I wonder if you legitimately think I'm going to ignore your poor attempt at dodging the question of whether an illegal act renders someone incapable of being a victim.
You want to try again? Here, I'll post another gif for you.
reelbigtink
Member
It's insane to me that in 2017 people believe folks' only motivation to use drugs is to "feel good", so find another way to feel good and you don't need drugs.
That's not how it works and you're discounting literally millions of reasons as to why someone would make the choice to break those dumb laws.
That's not how it works and you're discounting literally millions of reasons as to why someone would make the choice to break those dumb laws.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Who knew this thread would get this stupid? Oh, wait..I'm in the OP. Gaming side's double down.
I wonder if you legitimately think I'm going to ignore your poor attempt at dodging the question of whether an illegal act renders someone incapable of being a victim.
You want to try again? Here, I'll post another gif for you.
Not inherently. Obviously one can't choose to be black or be gay, thus they can be the victim of unfair laws. But you choose to shoot heroin or do meth. There is an obvious difference and trying to compare one's choice to do illegal drugs versus something that simply isn't a choice seems disingenuous and silly.
metalslimer
Member
Why in the hell are we talking about sympathy for law breakers? It doesn't matter whether you feel sympathy or not
Aaronology
Member
You're still dodging.
I did not claim it was illegal for Rosa Parks to be African American. I am drawing your attention to the fact that it was illegal for her to occupy a reserved seat on a bus. Was she victimized by this law, Euphor!a?
Answer the question.
Let's try this a third time.
Snowybreak
Member
So if a part of society actively uses something like pot on a standard and recreational basis, and then the people in power decide one day to just make it illegal, the members of that section of society should just stop just because the people in power say so?
You're still dodging.
I did not claim it was illegal for Rosa Parks to be African American. I am drawing your attention to the fact that it was illegal for her to occupy a reserved seat on a bus. Was she victimized by this law, Euphor!a?
Answer the question.
Let's try this a third time.
I never said it was impossible for a criminal to be victimized by a law, I literally just said the opposite.
You're free to do as you like. Edit: As far as I am concerned. Obviously.
Aaronology
Member
Darryl M R
Member
Well god damn this thread turned into something ugly and the beautiful.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
The war on drugs, the whole policy has been a disaster from the get go it's not its enforced that's the only racist component but it's entire purpose of existing and its creation in and of itself was racially motivated to begin with in primarily targeting groups who opposed the Nixon's administration. If this country really wanted a "war" on drugs it should've been focused on addiction treatment instead of incarceration and stronger restrictions and the ridiculousness of Marijuana's DEA classification which was only likely done because of who smoked it. In focusing on treatment it would've been infinity (though okay zero times infinity is still zero) more successful and cost a fraction of what it has over the last 40 years.
Are you seriously going to misrepresent my post by cutting out the part where I was clearly referencing illegal drugs? You're better than that, or maybe you're not...
One hundred one hundred one hundred waving emoji waving emoji waving emoji
Interesting....
Snowybreak
Member
According to your own original argument, it doesn't matter. If it's illegal, you're a criminal.
Is that really an argument? That's a fact.
Aaronology
Member
Are African Americans being victimized by discriminatory enforcement of drug laws, Euphor!a?
They are disproportionately charged and arrested for drug crimes, this is a fact and I am not disputing it. They are however choosing to do those drugs, so no, they are not victims in this instance.
Snowybreak
Member
So you're just going straight literal. Fine. Then that means that Rosa Parks was a criminal, and so were all those people arrested for sodomy.
If you do something illegal, you are a criminal. I don't know what you want me to tell you. I have already conceded that it is possible for unfair laws to victimize people, just not in the instance of choosing to do drugs.
metalslimer
Member
Bullshit laws designed to destroy black communities certainly makes them victims of institutional racism
Others have already made good points, but I'd like to mention that there's more to this than simply "choosing to do drugs".
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
....
That's your solution? Fill the prisons even more?
Everything you've been saying in this thread is myopic and callous, but seriously, this one takes the cake.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
But they are only criminals because of a corrupt State. You could definally pose an argument about criminality of drug dealers but for the User; in an upstanding society they should be treated as victims as taking drugs is far different from other crimes that are punishable.
Obviously there are many simple or complex reasons one gets to that point. But ultimately, yes, it is a choice.
Snowybreak
Member
Here, I'll get real personal so that you might catch a glimpse into the mind of a drug user.
I am a normal member of society who suffers from severe anxiety attacks due to my current job and mental health. I used to battle daily with depression and stress, but ever since I started smoking, I have become more productive, have gained back my mental faculties, and I am currently up for a really fantastic job opportunity. I can't move because of the various stresses involved in that, as well I have set up a rather nice life for myself in Pennsylvania.
I'm not addicted to pot, I stop every so often, even for weeks on end. But I will continue doing it because I'd rather not fall down that hole again.
Because the last time that happened, I ended up in the hospital. Twice.
I choose to use drugs because they have helped me become a better person and have improved my life significantly. And I use them even though they are illegal.
I won't give you any other anecdotes because that's all they are. I know too many people who went down my path, using drugs to better themselves, and were then arrested because the thing that would help them was illegal.
Prism Sentence
Banned
I just want to say you can see her abs through her shirt.
She fine.
Great vid and she still fine.
She fine.
Great vid and she still fine.
BoosterDuck
Banned
So I'm a criminal for breaking the speed limit every day and connecting to unsecure wifi networks and playing poker for money in people's homes?
good to know
Just_myles
Member
Ok. What about opioids and their addictive effects?
You CAN be a drug user and a victim. People die from this. We had how many stars die? How many regular people from pain killers? Come on man.
Anyway this discussion is a no-brainier(see what I did there?). To those offended, I envy you. Must be nice.
Save everyone the time and just get to what you're really thinking: You don't care about the under-served that turn to drug use to make up for the discrepancies in economic status and injustices in their lives.
That's the only real reason anyone would feel the need to bellow out hardline "do the crime, do the time" rhetoric like what you and Paulink are choosing to plant your flag on.
I appreciate it, but I don't need any more glimpses into the mind of a drug user, I've had more than enough for several lifetimes.
Here's a fun change up. Do you believe that illegal immigrants are exploited in jobs like farming even though they "choose" to work there?
Snowybreak
Member
So you have a negative opinion of all drug users?
Messofanego
Banned
I really hope Euphor!a has never downloaded a torrent, would hate for him/her to be deemed as a criminal.
Darryl M R
Member
Someone living life with only absolute sounds delusional. You can be a drug user and a victim of the war on drugs. Let's ignore addictions and underage drug use that leads to longer term drug use.
AstroNut325
Member
I'm posting this image again so certain people can have some goddamn perspective.
This shows that all 50 states are racially discriminatory in their policing, with black Americans arrested at levels from 2x to well over 20x as much as white people for the exact same shit. The majority of the states are sitting at well over 3x.
To think Rachael Leigh Cook's fucking commercial making you feel weird is an issue worth discussing for fucking hours today instead of these discrepancies shows us the obvious, ironic truth in LizardKing's idea that white people just don't give a fuck unless it's about them.
Whoa this is really eye opening. Thank you for posting this. Is there an updated chart?
Aaronology
Member
I appreciate that you don't dispute it. Your conceding this point means we don't have to argue over whether the war on drugs violates the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. Which renders this remark:
...Wrong.
You see, Euphor!a, well over a hundred years ago the Supreme Court recognized in Yick Wo v. Hopkins that racist, discriminatory laws applied with "with an evil eye and an unequal hand" were unjust. At the time, bigoted white Californians were arresting Chinese Americans for breaking a law crafted to target their communities and enforced with extreme prejudice. The court wrote, ""The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: 'Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'"
So, here we are. A century and some change later. If the 14th Amendment rights of African Americans are being violated, which you admit they are, how are those arrested due to selective enforcement not as much victims as the "criminals" the Supreme Court vindicated in 1886?
Edit: Actually I don't want to phrase that as a question. Let me state plainly: You're wrong. In an era where black men and all women could yet not vote, USSC was cognizant enough to establish the fucking obvious fact that selective enforcement victimizes. This is a stupid debate, and yours is a narrowminded opinion.
Snowybreak
Member
Then why brush off my post by saying you don't need anymore stories?
Drug usage is much more complicated than just choosing to use it. You seem hard set on not giving any ear or legitimacy to the idea that drug users may be victims persecuted by the government and society.
Just_myles
Member
Or you know, recovering from an injury. Did I spell opioids wrong? I'm out politiGAF.
I was sure it was her playing Nebula in GotG till I saw in the credits it was Karen Gillan.
I thought the exact same thing when I was watching GOTG. Looked so much like her.
Miles Quaritch
Member
If only they had listened...
Aaronology
Member
Yeah well. I at least think this thread highlights why it's so difficult bringing about change in America even in the face of damning data.
Darryl M R
Member
I appreciate the actual points that are made in good faith and intellectual honesty.
Before I started becoming a frequent poster on OT I felt that an individual's density would always prevail over logic. By having a discussion that highlights the ridiculous logic used by those being disingenuous you are still impacting those that are watching from the sideline. Maybe Euph!ora and LizardKing won't recognize their own intellectual dishonesty in arguing false points and semantics, but I think your random lurker can leave with new knowledge and a new point of view.
Before I started becoming a frequent poster on OT I felt that an individual's density would always prevail over logic. By having a discussion that highlights the ridiculous logic used by those being disingenuous you are still impacting those that are watching from the sideline. Maybe Euph!ora and LizardKing won't recognize their own intellectual dishonesty in arguing false points and semantics, but I think your random lurker can leave with new knowledge and a new point of view.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Some battles just aren't worth it. They leave you annoyed and wondering how anyone can be so damn hard-headed and unwilling/incapable of reasonable thought.
Like the ostrich, they prefer to keep their heads buried in their conformable bubble.
According to the link you posted a law must be conceived under undeniable racist intentions to apply the equal protection clause. I don't believe this to be the case and as of now I don't think the courts do either.
Because I disagree with the idea of doing illegal drugs not being a choice. You can say it is more complicated all you'd like, and it can be, but it is ultimately a choice.
GuessMyUserName
Member
I accept that some people just wanna "maximize" the reach of the message, but "don't bring up race because it makes white people uncomfortable" isn't defensible . Nobody should be offended by the *fact* that some people are more affected than others and that it isn't right. If someone's put off by that message they need to check themselves out.
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