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Radeon RX Vega thread

Kadey

Mrs. Harvey
A 8800 GTX was 600-650€ at launch

The two cards I mentioned I got for $500 back in the day. The 8800 GTX granted was $600 at launch but because ATI was still going toe to toe with them prices didn't last that high and ATI cards had superior image quality at the time. Nowadays Nvidia does whatever the hell they want.

And who cares if these cards trade blows with cards that are considered older than dirt in the gaming world. The fact of the matter is both of these cards should come out and spank nearly two year old cards so Nvidia can actually piss their pants and release volta earlier and at good pricing. But that only happened in an alternate dimension. I want these two companies to duke it out for our money. Not Nvidia laughing their asses off at cards that at most are slightly better than their old offerings.
 

ISee

Member
How long before custom 56 you think? I assume the performance gains will be worth the wait?

September.

Good question about the performance gains and overclocking. Vega 56 is apparently locked to 300W (Bios lock, flashing an unlocked BIOS and HEX editing doesn't work currently). This makes overclocking a bit difficult, AMD was maybe afraid people would be able to push vega56 to stock 64 performance. In the end it depends on AMD; if they allow third parties to configure their custom cards with an unlocked bios (power wise) it will be worth the wait, if not... they will be at least cooler.
As always with Vega, we have to wait and see. This release is really a mess.
 

Sotha_Sil

Member
Read a couple of reviews, and it seems like Vega 56 is a pretty nice card. I didn't think I would consider an upgrade until the next x80 card came out (my 480 4gb has held up really well for $200), but this one might be worth considering.
 

thelastword

Banned
Wow, nothing on Amazon, Vega bundles are going upwards of $2000.00 on newegg....https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=rx+vega&N=-1&isNodeId=1


OTOH
I think Vega 56 benchmarks are pretty impressive and AMD has hit that out the park, however I can still see that they have some driver issues that have to be fixed. I still believe there have not been proper benchmarks on Vega 64air vs 1080 or Vega 64WC vs 1080 Ti. At least I think that's how these benchmarks should be done... Vega 56 vs 1070.....was pretty good...


AMD still needs to work some kinks, I've seen VEGA 64 beating the Ti on some games at 1080p, then loses out at 4k (maybe more memory is helping out there). I've seen some interesting results in Crysis, Vega's performance is awful in Crysis 3, so that has to be addressed....GTAV just prefers intel and AMD but at 1440p Vega 64 compares very favorably with the 1080ti in TOT's video...still, I'm sure lots of perf is left on the table here for AMD cards, but i'm not sure they will bother at this point. PUBG performance is also not optimum and needs to be addressed. Moving on, I've seen Vega 64 beat the 1080ti Fe in Titanfall 2, about match it in hitman and have higher minimums against the 1080 Ti Fe in a few games as well.....64 is definitely not as bad as people are saying and so if AMD fixes the kinks I'm sure they will prove more worthwhile, but for now Vega 56 is the card to beat at$400.00....

I expect to see more solid and thorough reviews of Vega 64 air and WC tomorrow or in the coming days though.......
 

Reallink

Member
They were way more than what people expected when they launched price wise. a GTX 1070 was $459.99 when a generation earlier a gtx 970 was $399 or below.

The founders edition card thing was complete bullshit and raised prices by a decent margin.

The 970 launch MSRP was $329, not $399. The 1070 is, and has always been, a horrible value. The sales numbers reflected this, and were quite sluggish pre-crypto boom, evidenced by slow gains in Steam HW surveys and reputedly why Nvidia dropped the 1080 and 1070 MSRP's to $499 and $349 earlier this year. 1070 only recently started to make large gains when custom cards began routinely streeting at sale prices around $350, and of course the crypto-boom.
 

dr_rus

Member
I've been looking into some different stuff here and there are some points where Vega really does look the worse.

vega_noise7uo6h.png


This is probably the biggest issue for any potential buyer - just don't buy these, they are loud as fuck, if you want Vega so bad wait for custom cards, they are bound to be better in acoustics.

TQ1c.png


Remains to be seen if it will have better thermals however as even with this loud cooler the card under the backplate tend to heat up to 106C. That's quite a lot and I would genuinely worry about such card life longevity.

LQ1c.png


Both cards are universally power limited all the times which means that even at these performance levels they aren't happy with the power supply they are getting. Immediate result is the constant clock fluctuation noticed by several reviewers.

MQ1c.png


Vega 10 still looses a lot of performance even with minimum tessellation factor - which means that they will push for no or low tessellation again in GE titles.

NQ1c.png


Huge wins when using async compute - even compared to Polaris - means that shader core is idling more than it should. Seems to be even bigger than these of Fiji which is really surprising.

QQ1c.png


Vega 64 is almost exactly twice worse in perf/watt than its competitor.

RQ1c.png


There are benchmarks where Vega 10 has worse perf/watt than Fiji - despite being on a 14nm process and having what is essentially the same number of units.

UQ1c.png


All IPC improvements in NCU went into 16/8-bit packed math apparently. I'm not even sure that this counts as an IPC improvement actually.

XQ1c.png


Effective bandwidth went down somewhat - but what's more important is that this isn't compensated by the DCC improvements as can be seen from the results of black texture on Fiji clock/bandwidth.

Links:
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/radeon-rx-vega-64-56-test/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/968-4/consommation-efficacite-energetique.html
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/968-5/nuisances-sonores-temperatures-ir.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeo...6623/Tests/Benchmark-Preis-Release-1235445/3/

For those losing it over Vega's efficiency, check Vega 56 reviews. It's actually pretty decent.

It's because it's not clocked out of its comfortable range like Vega 64. I'm expecting Vega Nano to be even more power efficient although it will likely end up only slightly faster than RX 580 as a result.
 
I don't understand why this took an extra year to come out. Surely they'd have held it back to ensure it was better than the 1080 at a minimum and sat between the 1080 and 1080Ti?

I don't see what they gained compared to the rumours from before, other than brining out cards which are arguably worse overall, equal at best to their competitors 12months later.
 

dr_rus

Member
I don't understand why this took an extra year to come out. Surely they'd have held it back to ensure it was better than the 1080 at a minimum and sat between the 1080 and 1080Ti?

I don't see what they gained compared to the rumours from before, other than brining out cards which are arguably worse overall, equal at best to their competitors 12months later.

My guess would be that the chip itself was ready some time ago, likely by the end of 2016 when they had the first showing. But considering its complexity, with HBM2 and 486mm^2 die (which is bigger than that of GP102 actually), it was impossible to sell products on such chip back then at GTX 1070/1080 price points. So they had to wait for prices of 14nm platters and HBM2 chips to fall to a level where this was economically viable for them.
 

RootCause

Member
I don't understand why this took an extra year to come out. Surely they'd have held it back to ensure it was better than the 1080 at a minimum and sat between the 1080 and 1080Ti?

I don't see what they gained compared to the rumours from before, other than brining out cards which are arguably worse overall, equal at best to their competitors 12months later.
I think it's pretty clear it wasn't held back. It just wasn't ready for the market back then.
 

Marmelade

Member
Wow, nothing on Amazon, Vega bundles are going upwards of $2000.00 on newegg....https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=rx+vega&N=-1&isNodeId=1


OTOH
I think Vega 56 benchmarks are pretty impressive and AMD has hit that out the park, however I can still see that they have some driver issues that have to be fixed. I still believe there have not been proper benchmarks on Vega 64air vs 1080 or Vega 64WC vs 1080 Ti. At least I think that's how these benchmarks should be done... Vega 56 vs 1070.....was pretty good...


AMD still needs to work some kinks, I've seen VEGA 64 beating the Ti on some games at 1080p, then loses out at 4k (maybe more memory is helping out there). I've seen some interesting results in Crysis, Vega's performance is awful in Crysis 3, so that has to be addressed....GTAV just prefers intel and AMD but at 1440p Vega 64 compares very favorably with the 1080ti in TOT's video...still, I'm sure lots of perf is left on the table here for AMD cards, but i'm not sure they will bother at this point. PUBG performance is also not optimum and needs to be addressed. Moving on, I've seen Vega 64 beat the 1080ti Fe in Titanfall 2, about match it in hitman and have higher minimums against the 1080 Ti Fe in a few games as well.....64 is definitely not as bad as people are saying and so if AMD fixes the kinks I'm sure they will prove more worthwhile, but for now Vega 56 is the card to beat at$400.00....

I expect to see more solid and thorough reviews of Vega 64 air and WC tomorrow or in the coming days though.......

We already have a bunch of reviews saying that Vega64 is roughly on par with a 1080FE and behind custom 1080s

No amount of optimization is going to fill the gap with a 1080 Ti.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
I've been looking into some different stuff here and there are some points where Vega really does look the worse.

This is probably the biggest issue for any potential buyer - just don't buy these, they are loud as fuck, if you want Vega so bad wait for custom cards, they are bound to be better in acoustics.

Remains to be seen if it will have better thermals however as even with this loud cooler the card under the backplate tend to heat up to 106C. That's quite a lot and I would genuinely worry about such card life longevity.

Both cards are universally power limited all the times which means that even at these performance levels they aren't happy with the power supply they are getting. Immediate result is the constant clock fluctuation noticed by several reviewers.

Vega 10 still looses a lot of performance even with minimum tessellation factor - which means that they will push for no or low tessellation again in GE titles.

Huge wins when using async compute - even compared to Polaris - means that shader core is idling more than it should. Seems to be even bigger than these of Fiji which is really surprising.

Vega 64 is almost exactly twice worse in perf/watt than its competitor.

There are benchmarks where Vega 10 has worse perf/watt than Fiji - despite being on a 14nm process and having what is essentially the same number of units.

All IPC improvements in NCU went into 16/8-bit packed math apparently. I'm not even sure that this counts as an IPC improvement actually.

Effective bandwidth went down somewhat - but what's more important is that this isn't compensated by the DCC improvements as can be seen from the results of black texture on Fiji clock/bandwidth.

Links:
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/radeon-rx-vega-64-56-test/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/968-4/consommation-efficacite-energetique.html
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/968-5/nuisances-sonores-temperatures-ir.html
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeo...6623/Tests/Benchmark-Preis-Release-1235445/3/

It's because it's not clocked out of its comfortable range like Vega 64. I'm expecting Vega Nano to be even more power efficient although it will likely end up only slightly faster than RX 580 as a result.

Brutal. Those noise levels are especially off-putting. I'll probably mull it over for a little while longer and eventually cave and buy a 1080 Ti, giving up on the FreeSync dream. Oh well, my monitor is only good for 40~60 hz range when it comes to FreeSync anyway.

This being a total fucking paper launch has kind of irked me, too. I've been monitoring it all day and not once have I seen Amazon have stock. There's only ever been one Newegg card that popped up for a couple of minutes at two separate times today.
 

thelastword

Banned
We already have a bunch of reviews saying that Vega64 is roughly on par with a 1080FE and behind custom 1080s


No amount of optimization is going to fill the gap with a 1080 Ti.
I was more thinking these right here. The 1080Ti is ahead, but Vega 64 is pretty competitive in a few games with stock clocks and early/beta drivers....

NL9EGx6.jpg


Concentrate on Vega 64 air vs 1080ti FE, for the record this game always favored NV cards by a long way...not bad huh..
GuTXFIs.jpg


Just Flip Vega 56 scores with Vega 64, there was a mistake there. Check the lows on Vega.
CZudw1s.jpg


Check the lows on Vega here. Smoother experience......
p0wLtiy.jpg


GTAV: For a game that heavily favors Nvidia and Intel, this is pretty impressive for the Vega 64 against the T.I
fVT3TzG.jpg


Hitman Vega 64 vs 1080Ti FE, not bad...not bad at all
NtJu0kV.jpg


Some temps

Xs0CC62.jpg



And to think, this is the air cooled Vega 64 running games optimized for Nvidia for the most part. wish to see some Warhammer, Civilization, Doom, Battlefield, Infinite warfare, Advanced Warfare, Snipe Elite 4, Blops 3 and Dirt Rally amongst others. I think September and some driver updates will become very interesting for all three cards. Vega 56, 64air and 64 WC.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Has there ever been a case where ATI/AMD have closed the gap/seen massive improvements via drivers? Seems like they have always been criticized for their drivers and there is already a performance miracle just around the corner.
 
I was more thinking these right here. The 1080Ti is ahead, but Vega 64 is pretty competitive in a few games with stock clocks and early/beta drivers....



Concentrate on Vega 64 air vs 1080ti FE, for the record this game always favored NV cards by a long way...not bad huh..


Just Flip Vega 56 scores with Vega 64, there was a mistake there. Check the lows on Vega.


Check the lows on Vega here. Smoother experience......


GTAV: For a game that heavily favors Nvidia and Intel, this is pretty impressive for the Vega 64 against the T.I


Hitman Vega 64 vs 1080Ti FE, not bad...not bad at all


Some temps




And to think, this is the air cooled Vega 64 running games optimized for Nvidia for the most part. wish to see some Warhammer, Civilization, Doom, Battlefield, Infinite warfare, Advanced Warfare, Snipe Elite 4, Blops 3 and Dirt Rally amongst others. I think September and some driver updates will become very interesting for all three cards. Vega 56, 64air and 64 WC.

Pcmark? The desperation is strong. Oh and most of the game results are hitting cpu limitations. Well done
 

blastprocessor

The Amiga Brotherhood
To think future consoles will use derivatives of these power inefficient architectures. One hopes Navi reduces the power consumption gap between Nvidias futures gpus.
 
I was more thinking these right here. The 1080Ti is ahead, but Vega 64 is pretty competitive in a few games with stock clocks and early/beta drivers....
For context, the source is this YouTube video (from the 9 minute mark onwards), the CPU used was a Ryzen 1800x (which is why it's CPU-bound on all the 1440p charts thelastword posted) and the Vegas got squished by the 1080Ti in all of the 4k benchmarks and all the 1440p benchmarks that weren't CPU limited (which is why thelastword omitted them).

In other words: cherrypicking and lies.
 

gabbo

Member
So from what I've read today from V56 reviews, I'll wait for third party cards before pulling the trigger for better cooling and acoustic results
 
So from what I've read today from V56 reviews, I'll wait for third party cards before pulling the trigger for better cooling and acoustic results

As a general rule of thumb: never buy blower-style cards. They're noisy and run hotter than the regular cooler style. The two exceptions to this rule is a) if you intend to build a custom watercooling loop (in which case you'll find that the reference design has the greatest selection of compatible watercooling components), and b) if you have a severe airflow restriction (e.g. if you're using a small form factor case and you're forced to mount the graphics card just above the power supply). Otherwise, wait for the AIB partners to bring out the fans.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
For the life of me I cannot understand brand loyalty. I don't understand why someone would throw away their own best interest to pimp their brand.

I appreciate all of the informed posts. I've been watching this thread since the beginning.
 

gabbo

Member
As a general rule of thumb: never buy blower-style cards. They're noisy and run hotter than the regular cooler style. The two exceptions to this rule is a) if you intend to build a custom watercooling loop (in which case you'll find that the reference design has the greatest selection of compatible watercooling components), and b) if you have a severe airflow restriction (e.g. if you're using a small form factor case and you're forced to mount the graphics card just above the power supply). Otherwise, wait for the AIB partners to bring out the fans.

That is a general rule that has served me well up to this point, as I noted, I'm going to stick with it. I thought maybe theyd have a cooling solution as good as their Ryzen cpus, but not the case
 

thelastword

Banned
Pcmark? The desperation is strong. Oh and most of the game results are hitting cpu limitations. Well done
Vega is very strong in compute and everyday business workloads. I thought that was a good point to make, people do use their GPU's for other tasks than gaming you know......

For context, the source is this YouTube video (from the 9 minute mark onwards), the CPU used was a Ryzen 1800x (which is why it's CPU-bound on all the 1440p charts thelastword posted) and the Vegas got squished by the 1080Ti in all of the 4k benchmarks and all the 1440p benchmarks that weren't CPU limited (which is why thelastword omitted them).

In other words: cherrypicking and lies.
I said the 1080ti came ahead overall, but it shows that Vega 64 is very competitive in certain games. The focus in the video was 1440p though and even the reviewer highlighted AMD's focus was ultrawide but he didn't have such a monitor.....I showed where Vega was competitive against the Ti, the air cooled version at that with stock clocks and beta drivers...


FWIW, it is being circulated that HBC and primitive shaders are off in Vega atm....Tomorrow though, I hope more sites do Veg64 air and WC vs 1080 and 1080ti...the way joker and DF did it btw, just not so many cards by DF.

56 vs 1070
64Air vs 1080
64WC vs 1080TI

Three videos......I want to see Doom, Battlefield, Dirt, Civilization, Warhammer, Watchdogs 2, Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, Ashes, Quake Champions, Mafia, Hellblade etc.... we need to see more games and tests here....
 

Marmelade

Member
Three videos......I want to see Doom, Battlefield, Dirt, Civilization, Warhammer, Watchdogs 2, Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, Ashes, Quake Champions, Mafia, Hellblade etc.... we need to see more games and tests here....

We already have a lot of games being tested with Vega64/1080/1080 Ti

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Radeo.../Tests/Benchmark-Vergleich-vs-Nvidia-1235712/
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-08/radeon-rx-vega-64-56-test/4/
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/968-1/preview-amd-rx-vega64-rx-vega56-test.html (for Warhammer)
etc
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Hey Guys

I cannot even see a preorder for a Vega 64 on Amazon.co.uk or iam i blind?

You're probably not blind. None of the US Amazon pages are even complete product pages. Just product names and images of the cards with no options and no information.

They had one XFX branded model up earlier this morning for $499.99, but I'm not sure if it was ever actually purchasable. The listing has since been taken down, it seems.

Really not sure what to make of this stock situation. Seems like a total paper launch with maybe a few hundred/few thousand cards actually being sold?
 

joshwaan

Member
You're probably not blind. None of the US Amazon pages are even complete product pages. Just product names and images of the cards with no options and no information.

They had one XFX branded model up earlier this morning for $499.99, but I'm not sure if it was ever actually purchasable. The listing has since been taken down, it seems.

Really not sure what to make of this stock situation. Seems like a total paper launch with maybe a few hundred/few thousand cards actually being sold?

Yeah it's pretty disappointing
 
Vega is very strong in compute and everyday business workloads. I thought that was a good point to make, people do use their GPU's for other tasks than gaming you know......

I said the 1080ti came ahead overall, but it shows that Vega 64 is very competitive in certain games. The focus in the video was 1440p though and even the reviewer highlighted AMD's focus was ultrawide but he didn't have such a monitor.....I showed where Vega was competitive against the Ti, the air cooled version at that with stock clocks and beta drivers...


FWIW, it is being circulated that HBC and primitive shaders are off in Vega atm....Tomorrow though, I hope more sites do Veg64 air and WC vs 1080 and 1080ti...the way joker and DF did it btw, just not so many cards by DF.

56 vs 1070
64Air vs 1080
64WC vs 1080TI

Three videos......I want to see Doom, Battlefield, Dirt, Civilization, Warhammer, Watchdogs 2, Infinite Warfare, Advanced Warfare, Ashes, Quake Champions, Mafia, Hellblade etc.... we need to see more games and tests here....

Breaking news brocicles!! Slower gpus are more competitive when the faster gpu is bottlenecksd by a different part of the pc
 

thelastword

Banned
Breaking news brocicles!! Slower gpus are more competitive when the faster gpu is bottlenecksd by a different part of the pc
Vega 64 has more raw performance and compute horsepower over the pascal cards. It's not a slower card, it's just not at it's optimum yet for gaming.
 

joshwaan

Member
Well I ended up getting a aurous 1080 gtx 11gbps one I game on. 1440p monitor so should be fine. I'll keep eye on the AIO Vega 64.
 
To think future consoles will use derivatives of these power inefficient architectures. One hopes Navi reduces the power consumption gap between Nvidias futures gpus.

The console versions, assuming that they will continue to use AMD, will most certainly use semi-custom lower power versions of these architectures. No one is going to stick a GPU with a rated power of 395W into a box the size of a PS4.
 

RaijinFY

Member
The console versions, assuming that they will continue to use AMD, will most certainly use semi-custom lower power versions of these architectures. No one is going to stick a GPU with a rated power of 395W into a box the size of a PS4.

That's obvious, but to do that, they will have to significantly lower the frequency to have a power efficient GPU. GCN seems to scale very poorly and the perf/W is absolutely horrendous compared to what nVidia has achieved.
 

scoobs

Member
Wow, nothing on Amazon, Vega bundles are going upwards of $2000.00 on newegg....https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=rx+vega&N=-1&isNodeId=1


OTOH
I think Vega 56 benchmarks are pretty impressive and AMD has hit that out the park, however I can still see that they have some driver issues that have to be fixed. I still believe there have not been proper benchmarks on Vega 64air vs 1080 or Vega 64WC vs 1080 Ti. At least I think that's how these benchmarks should be done... Vega 56 vs 1070.....was pretty good...


AMD still needs to work some kinks, I've seen VEGA 64 beating the Ti on some games at 1080p, then loses out at 4k (maybe more memory is helping out there). I've seen some interesting results in Crysis, Vega's performance is awful in Crysis 3, so that has to be addressed....GTAV just prefers intel and AMD but at 1440p Vega 64 compares very favorably with the 1080ti in TOT's video...still, I'm sure lots of perf is left on the table here for AMD cards, but i'm not sure they will bother at this point. PUBG performance is also not optimum and needs to be addressed. Moving on, I've seen Vega 64 beat the 1080ti Fe in Titanfall 2, about match it in hitman and have higher minimums against the 1080 Ti Fe in a few games as well.....64 is definitely not as bad as people are saying and so if AMD fixes the kinks I'm sure they will prove more worthwhile, but for now Vega 56 is the card to beat at$400.00....

I expect to see more solid and thorough reviews of Vega 64 air and WC tomorrow or in the coming days though.......

You are really adamant about this whole Vega 64 > 1080ti thing aren't you? All evidence points to the Ti smashing the 64, and yet you just keep on believing. Its not drivers, its not bad benchmarks by literally everyone that has done benchmarks. Its the card. Its just not as powerful, its time to come back to reality.
 

Locuza

Member
[...]
Vega 10 still looses a lot of performance even with minimum tessellation factor - which means that they will push for no or low tessellation again in GE titles.
For games CB writes the following:
Dasselbe Verhalten zeigt sich auch in Spielen. So nutzt Rise of the Tomb Raider keine hohen Tessellation-Faktoren. Während die GeForce GTX 1080 durch das Feature sieben Prozent an Geschwindigkeit verliert, ist es auf der Radeon RX Vega nur ein Prozent. Die Radeon R9 Fury X verliert hohe 18 Prozent, die Radeon RX 580 noch sechs Prozent.

Die HairWorks-Integration in The Witcher 3 nutzt dagegen hohe Tessellation-Faktoren und schon dreht sich das Bild um. Die GeForce GTX 1080 verliert 16 Prozent durch die hübschere Haardarstellung, die Radeon RX Vega 64 höhere 23 Prozent. Radeon R9 Fury X und RX 580 werden gleich um 31 Prozent langsamer.
Tomb Raider:
GTX 1080 looses 7% performance with Tess on.
RX Vega 1%.
Fury X 18%
RX 580 6%

TW3 with Hairworks:
GTX 1080 16%
RX Vega 23%
Fury X and RX 580 both 31%

Quite confusing is the topic around the primitive shader or the new Next-Generation-Geometry fast-path.
According to Computerbase and Golem it's not implemented yet, according to Anandtech (I belive) AMD said it is.
But synthetic tests show no higher throuhput than the classic pipeline can do, so it might be rather not implemented or only for certain applications.
In the white paper AMD mentions a peak rate of 17 primitives vs. the 11 they claimed in the beginning but the native/classic pipeline only achieves 4.
http://radeon.com/_downloads/vega-whitepaper-11.6.17.pdf

In general terms AMD doubled the size of the parameter cache so that might lead to less stalls overall.

Huge wins when using async compute - even compared to Polaris - means that shader core is idling more than it should. Seems to be even bigger than these of Fiji which is really surprising.
Ashes of the Singularity is not fully deterministic.
I wouldn't use it for precise claims because the results vary too much.

On the next page is Gears of War 4 with Async Compute.
There Vega profits around 7%, RX 580 also around 7% and the Fury X about 10%.

All IPC improvements in NCU went into 16/8-bit packed math apparently. I'm not even sure that this counts as an IPC improvement actually.
Well it increases the instructions per clock cycles but it's quite misleading when you think in more general terms.
In the beginning one AMD architect said they increased the instruction buffers but in most cases that's probably just a minor perf bonus, AMD already increased the instruction buffers with Polaris and per clock we didn't saw huge improvements.

Effective bandwidth went down somewhat - but what's more important is that this isn't compensated by the DCC improvements as can be seen from the results of black texture on Fiji clock/bandwidth.
In general it's good to see that with RX Vega the texel rate seems normal.
Vega FE showed one quarter less throughput than the Fury X, now RX Vega and Fury X are looking the same.

On the effective bandwidth side the RX Vega results are also better than on the Vega FE.
The random texture throuhput (effectivly no compression help) shows 18% better results, with black textures only 4%.

But looking at the RX Vega @ 1.05 Ghz results with overclocked memory for the same 512 GB/s show still huge deficit in comparison to the Fury X.
 
You are really adamant about this whole Vega 64 > 1080ti thing aren't you? All evidence points to the Ti smashing the 64, and yet you just keep on believing. Its not drivers, its not bad benchmarks by literally everyone that has done benchmarks. Its the card. Its just not as powerful, its time to come back to reality.


there's always one lunatic that simply can't accept reality.

it's like with xb1 when people were convinced dx12 would bring it up to ps4 level. Now we have Sony fanboys who believe fp16 Will make the pro at similar level with xb1x
 

Type_Raver

Member
I know Project CARS (PCARS) favoured nvidia, but has anyone done benchmarks of Vega and PCARS?

Once PCARS 2 is out, hopefully we'll see some benchmarks as well.
 

llien

Member
Vega FE vs Vega RX, by PCPER:

Code:
RX Vega Air vs. Vega FE 1440p   2160p
Dirt Rally              +10%     +9%
Fallout 4                +2%    +15%
Grand Theft Auto V      +10%    +19%
Hitman 2016             +15%    +15%
Rise of the Tomb Raider +16%    +22%
The Witcher 3           +16%    +18%
------------------------------------
Average                 +11%    +16%
https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph...Review-Vega-64-Vega-64-Liquid-Vega-56-Tested/

More than I expected.



Both cards are universally power limited all the times which means that even at these performance levels they aren't happy with the power supply they are getting.

What?

Oh and most of the game results are hitting cpu limitations. Well done

You think that explains better min fps on Vegas?
 

ISee

Member
I was more thinking these right here. The 1080Ti is ahead, but Vega 64 is pretty competitive in a few games with stock clocks and early/beta drivers.... .

Something strange about those benchmarks, they don't fit with benchmarks from other sites. Vega 64 can only compete with the 1080 Ti in Doom (Vulkan, 1080 Ti is 10% faster) and Dirt 4 (the 1080 Ti is again 10% faster). Both cards are running at stock settings and speed in "my" benchmarks. Which is fair, because you either have to use stock settings or bring both GPUs to their limits.

e.g. Titanfall 2,
1440p said:

or GTA V
1440p said:

Also as you asked for Doom, Sniper and Dirt benchmarks

1440p said:
1440p. vulkan said:
1440p said:
 
Has there ever been a case where ATI/AMD have closed the gap/seen massive improvements via drivers? Seems like they have always been criticized for their drivers and there is already a performance miracle just around the corner.

AMD are MUCH better about driver support in recent years.

Only thing that I've seen close and even overcome a gap is when a dev uses Mantle or Vulcan instead of DX11 or 12. See Doom 2016, which got a 40% performance improvement on Vulcan for AMD cards, which is nuts. But, it's on the devs to support it.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...n-patch-shows-game-changing-performance-gains

Normal driver optimization can fix problems, but it isn't something that "normally" closes a big gap more than a few percentage points. Using Vulcan or Mantle can make big differences though.
 

pottuvoi

Banned
NQ1c.png


Huge wins when using async compute - even compared to Polaris - means that shader core is idling more than it should. Seems to be even bigger than these of Fiji which is really surprising.
Their renderer has rasterization pass which is quite low on shader usage, so it could be part of the reason why async gives nice boost. (Rendering to screen writes pre-shaded results as shading is done in texture space.)
 
That's obvious, but to do that, they will have to significantly lower the frequency to have a power efficient GPU. GCN seems to scale very poorly and the perf/W is absolutely horrendous compared to what nVidia has achieved.

Bit of a contradiction there. At lower frequencies, at Vega 56 levels and below, efficiency is not far off a Pascal 1060. That's hardly 'absolutely horrendous'. Pushed past the optimum a la Vega 64 Water Cooled edition, and then it's very bad.

I swear some of you don't even understand the basics of how frequency of a chip effects efficiency. There's a dude in here baffled at how Apple could choose Vega in one of their products. Presumably this guy thinks the new iMac and MBP will sport Vega 64s clocked at 1650Mhz....
 

napata

Member
Bit of a contradiction there. At lower frequencies, at Vega 56 levels and below, efficiency is not far off a Pascal 1060. That's hardly 'absolutely horrendous'. Pushed past the optimum a la Vega 64 Water Cooled edition, and then it's very bad.

I swear some of you don't even understand the basics of how frequency of a chip effects efficiency. There's a dude in here baffled at how Apple could choose Vega in one of their products. Presumably this guy thinks the new iMac and MBP will sport Vega 64s clocked at 1650Mhz....

Not even close. A Vega 56 consumes 200+ watts while a 1060 consumes 110 watts with the 56 only having 30% extra performance. Just look at the difference between the 56 & 1070. How is this "not that far off"?

 

Taggen86

Member
Can anyone explain why AMD flops and vega flops in particular translate into so little performance in games compared to nvidia flops?

Given that vega 56 is a 10 TF card, it should outperformance the GTX1080 (9 TF), but it is more in line with a 1070. The same applies for vega 64, a 12.5 TF card that is not even close to the GTX 1080 TI (12 TF)? This really suggest that next gen consoles will not be that powerful, even if it uses navi and a 7nm node process. We should be happy if they outperform a GTX 1080 when they releases since SONY/MS will most likely use low-mid range navi AMD cards (around twice the TF of a current low-mid range AMD card RX 480/580 x 2=ca 10-12 TF, given that transistors shrink from 14nm to 7nm, assuming that navi is as inefficient as vega.)
 

3x0

Neo Member
Can anyone explain why AMD flops and vega flops in particular translate into so little performance compared to nvidia flops?

"Performance in games". Other productivity tasks is a different matter. Their architecture is more geared towards GPGPU perfomance.
 

DonMigs85

Member
Can anyone explain why AMD flops and vega flops in particular translate into so little performance compared to nvidia flops?
Given that vega 56 is a 10 tflop card, it should outperformance the GTX1080 (9 TF), but it is more in line with a 1070. The same applies for vega 64, a 13 tflop card that is not even close to the GTX 1080 TI (12 TF)? This really suggest that next gen consoles will not be that powerful, even if it uses navi and a 7nm process. We should be happy if they outperform a GTX 1080 when they releases since they will use low-mid range navi AMD cards.

Nvidia flops seem to be more efficiently utilized in typical game scenarios. They also have more efficient texturing and fillrate usage.
 
And to think, this is the air cooled Vega 64 running games optimized for Nvidia for the most part. wish to see some Warhammer, Civilization, Doom, Battlefield, Infinite warfare, Advanced Warfare, Snipe Elite 4, Blops 3 and Dirt Rally amongst others. I think September and some driver updates will become very interesting for all three cards. Vega 56, 64air and 64 WC.
Hitman, Titanfall 2, Battlefront...? Sorry, how are they optimized for Nvidia? GTA V is pretty agnostic. Metro LL, no idea - perhaps so. Care to clarify?
 
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