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RED ASH Kickstarter crashes n burns (Comcept/Inafune/Hyde making Mega Man Legends 3)

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PeakPointMatrix

Member
The momentum is picking up. Honestly I wasn't sure why people were expecting a burst of donations the very minute the announcement was made. Any kind of news outside of the first or last three days will be slow to spread. Hoping that they show off assets/gameplay near the last three days to really light a fire under this KS.

I can see how the management of this KS has rubbed people the wrong way, but using the results of the first Mighty KS, I don't understand why people have as little faith in Inafune as they do.

Mighty is looking great. Sure it's not a one to one copy of the that single piece of concept art, but is that really worth condemning the entire game and Inafune's reputation? Most importantly, it has been extremely well received by all press and previews that have gotten hands on time with the game. I don't understand the where the truckload of skepticism is coming from when it comes to Comcept delivering on a game, when Mighty is looking to actually deliver. Especially considering that kickstarter funded games end up falling apart due to budget/management constraints.
 
P

Pez

Member
How awful would it be if this Kickstarter barely makes it over its goal the last day of funding and everyone decides they don't want it/retracts their pledge?
 
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Nyoro SF

Member
nynt9 said:
lol wow at "maybe we were too transparent, the backers just can't handle it", that is a ridiculous, patronizing misinterpretation of the problems people have with this KS, and to put the blame on the potential backers like that is just an ironic sign of how mismanaged and lacking in self realization this KS really is.
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This is definitely something I note not just from this Kickstarter, but from other company representatives when asking about failed games, projects or ideas. It wasn't our fault. Maybe we just did too good of a job. Clearly our fans just didn't understand our vision.

It speaks to true stubborn misunderstanding of why something failed.

Despite the pitfalls of this project, I don't think it's ever surpassed the terrible Mutant League Football kickstarter though; that's not a record that will be broken anytime soon.
 
Mikey Jr.

Mikey Jr.

Member
twothunder said:
$461,454 pledged of $800,000 goal
9 days to go
Gained 6000 with the PS4 update

Even with an end sprint. Reaching 800K. Let alone 1 million will be VERY difficult. And I'm being nice here
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It feels like its been hovering in the 450k-460k range for days now.

I will be shocked if this reaches 800k. If it hits 800k, something dramatic must have happened.

1 million will literally take a miracle.
 
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NoFaceNico

Member
Diggeh said:
Perhaps there should be a general KS update addressing all of this rather than spinning to a single GAF thread. It comes off as very unprofessional and condescending to respond to every post with "it's unfair to say that and you're wrong".
Click to expand...

With the answers we got, it only reinforces the belief that they truly don't understand or just don't want to accept how their project is confusing at best but more likely deceptive.

I found the comments about the full game being "a risk on comcept alone" especially troubling. It shows that they see their fans/backers as nothing more than a blank check. And what the hell was all that "well, it worked for Shenmue 3" crap? Again, Kickstarter is just a collection plate to them.

When this Kickstarter fails, can they set up another one to produce a video of Inafune yelling at the camera like Uwe Boll? Because that's a 5 minute short I would actually back.
 
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nynt9

Member
PeakPointMatrix said:
The momentum is picking up. Honestly I wasn't sure why people were expecting a burst of donations the very minute the announcement was made. Any kind of news outside of the first or last three days will be slow to spread. Hoping that they show off assets/gameplay near the last three days to really light a fire under this KS.

I can see how the management of this KS has rubbed people the wrong way, but using the results of the first Mighty KS, I don't understand why people have as little faith in Inafune as they do.

Mighty is looking great. Sure it's not a one to one copy of the that single piece of concept art, but is that really worth condemning the entire game and Inafune's reputation? Most importantly, it has been extremely well received by all press and previews that have gotten hands on time with the game. I don't understand the where the truckload of skepticism is coming from when it comes to Comcept delivering on a game, when Mighty is looking to actually deliver. Especially considering that kickstarter funded games end up falling apart due to budget/management constraints.
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You made a post that's basically identical to this a few pages ago. Both that time and this time you completely straw manned all the legitimate criticism people have against the project and went "I don't know why people are upset with this?!" It's like you're deliberately not reading the thread and are running some sort of campaign to defend the game.

It's really not that hard to read a few posts that have summarized the concerns. Even the dude running the KS who posts here acknowledged some. Come on.

Nyoro SF said:
This is definitely something I note not just from this Kickstarter, but from other company representatives when asking about failed games, projects or ideas. It wasn't our fault. Maybe we just did too good of a job. Clearly our fans just didn't understand our vision.

It speaks to true stubborn misunderstanding of why something failed.

Despite the pitfalls of this project, I don't think it's ever surpassed the terrible Mutant League Football kickstarter though; that's not a record that will be broken anytime soon.
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It's exactly the wrong message to take from the feedback. "People are upset with our lackluster product so we should have lied better I guess." No, you should have a better product.
 
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ShockingAlberto

Member
nynt9 said:
It's exactly the wrong message to take from the feedback. "People are upset with our lackluster product so we should have lied better I guess." No, you should have a better product.
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I mean, yes, but they also should have presented it better.

I'm not saying that as a defense, I'm saying they fucked up twice.
 
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Servbot24

Banned
Transparency is good, but this Kickstarter was just messy. Information needs to be presented in an organized, pre-planned manner. Not made up as they go along. We want to feel like the project is solid and under control, which is not at all the impression the KS gives.

And of course, if you don't have anything good to present, you shouldn't be doing a Kickstarter.
 
J

John Dunbar

correct about everything
Diggeh said:
I don't understand why he came back just to quote everyone saying how dumb and wrong we are, and that it's our fault for not understanding the KS and making it fail. If that was an attempt to get us to back, it sure blew up in his face.
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i don't think that's very fair. he was way more respectful than most people seem to be in similar situations. it's not like he was throwing insults around.
 
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NoFaceNico

Member
John Dunbar said:
i don't think that's very fair. he was way more respectful than most people seem to be in similar situations. it's not like he was throwing insults around.
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He wasn't specifically insulting anyone but his responses were written in a very condescending manner, which is very insulting when it's written by someone who is a part of the project. This is why studios have PR departments, so that they don't have individual team members going onto forums with a "fuck it" attitude.

I'm not saying I'm ungrateful for his responses, I love them. It's very rare that we get to see the reasoning and thought process behind a failing high profile Kickstarter.
 
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Leona Lewis

Banned
Sou Da said:
>http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3154628
>CTRL+F "idiot" "dumb" "stupid"
>0 results found

What are you on about?
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Looks like you're not the only one in this thread playing coy then. He wasn't being literal, and was referring to smug, self-aggrandizing nonsense like:

BudokaiMR2 said:
Also, If you really think the bolded part is how movie/show licensing works then you don't have much place being an armchair analyst about entertainment projects.
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I'm not exactly sure how the tone BudokaiMR2's striking with his responses is supposed to endear us to the project at all. Maybe try to understand the position of us potential customers? Maybe stop indicting our "perception" as intellectual dishonesty? Maybe just provide some respectful acknowledgement?

Meh, too much to ask apparently.
 
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J-Spot

Member
Diggeh said:
I don't understand why he came back just to quote everyone saying how dumb and wrong we are, and that it's our fault for not understanding the KS and making it fail. Was that an attempt to get us to back the project? By telling us we're idiots?
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I don't know what's going on in your mind to form that twisted interpretation. I'm sure Budokai gets a little frustrated with some of the extreme accusations that have gone on with this kickstarter but I haven't seen anything from him that seemed remotely condescending.
 
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Damo1234

Neo Member
Here's the thing.

My favorite game made on kickstarter so far is Shadowrun Returns. They asked for 400,000 (about half of what Red Ash is asking for, but still in the hundreds-of-thousands range) and raised $1,836,447.

The kickstarter pitch is a man walking around saying "I think this is a great idea. Here's some of what we're hoping for and who will be working on it." A little concept art, none of which (as near as I can tell) was used in the game.

That's it. No gameplay, no models, very little info on who would be involved in the game development. There was never a console release at all, even though it was (sorta) a sequel to games made for SNES and Genesis. Just a guy on front of a camera, talking.

Now Shadowrun has a great fanbase, but I'm skeptical that it's orders of magnitude larger than Megaman Legends.

So the fact that people have been criticizing Red Ash so heavily for the console goals and the lack of gameplay video... my favorite game made by kickstarter would never have gotten made if people had dismissed it for those failings. I really don't want "you have to show us gameplay and announce consoles before we even consider it. No we don't care who will be working on it, their resume is irrelevant" to become the new standard.
 
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J-Spot

Member
Damo1234 said:
So the fact that people have been criticizing Red Ash so heavily for the console goals and the lack of gameplay video... my favorite game made by kickstarter would never have gotten made if people had dismissed it for those failings. I really don't want "you have to show us gameplay and announce consoles before we even consider it. No we don't care who will be working on it, their resume is irrelevant" to become the new standard.
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Nobody is going to bat an eye at a CRPG not having a console release. In this case they're banking on the fan base of a game series that was on nothing but consoles so of course expectations are different. The complaints about game play footage stem directly from the fact that MN9 was a product that was not what many people had envisioned, so it's kind of a "fool me once, shame on you" scenario. Inafune is appealing to the same crowd that feel burned on his last project.
 
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PeakPointMatrix

Member
nynt9 said:
You made a post that's basically identical to this a few pages ago. Both that time and this time you completely straw manned all the legitimate criticism people have against the project and went "I don't know why people are upset with this?!" It's like you're deliberately not reading the thread and are running some sort of campaign to defend the game.

It's really not that hard to read a few posts that have summarized the concerns. Even the dude running the KS who posts here acknowledged some. Come on.
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I clearly state I'm referring to Mighty No 9. There's no doubt the Red Ash kickstarter has been mishandled, I explicitly say that in my post. The Red Ash KS has earned legitimate criticism, but it seems like people had a chip on their shoulder based on MN9 alone which is what I'm referring to. Were people really that dissatisfied with how MN9 is turning out, even in the face of positive impressions?

I'm holding the final judgement call until I play it myself of course, but in my eyes MN9 is looking like a really fun sidescroller, which is enough to earn faith from me on Comcept's next project. That doesn't excuse how blunderously this KS has been handled, but it seems that the majority people weren't willing to ever trust Inafune again even *before* the Red Ash launch.
 
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nckillthegrimace

Member
Damo1234 said:
So the fact that people have been criticizing Red Ash so heavily for the console goals and the lack of gameplay video... my favorite game made by kickstarter would never have gotten made if people had dismissed it for those failings. I really don't want "you have to show us gameplay and announce consoles before we even consider it. No we don't care who will be working on it, their resume is irrelevant" to become the new standard.
Click to expand...

Inafune has repeatedly failed to demonstrate that he deserves our money.
 
S

SuperDowns

Banned
BudokaiMR2 said:
Okay one last one...for real this time.

There is a bit of risk with the full game offer but it is a risk on comcept alone. If for some reason Inafune is not able to pull together the funding for it then it would be our ass on the line. However, as both the fans and haters will have to admit Inafune knows how to set up and close deals.. It is a matter of when not if as far as the team is concerned. That when just becomes a LOT easier once we have the KalKanon Incident to show.

With the console situation, that involves partners who we are already very close with.
As I said before, we already have close ties with these companies and without anything confirmed it could seriously damage our reputation with them to announce without their okay.
It's not even just "they might send us a stern email" level stuff.
Some of the things that Kickstarters do regarding console ports is in direct violation of brand guidelines in a lot of cases.
It's quite possible that Shenmue 3 was the first KS to actually go about that in the safest way possible.
I honestly can't say much more...

So I hope that make sense!
Click to expand...

I am going to keep as a backer because of your transparency.

I think others have more eloquently laid out their problems with this KS but I wanted to share mine:

I was confused what the episodic content and game was at first. It seemed that the game was only half there with the initial goal being reached.

The platforms were not an issue for me as I wanted PC but I could see where that was potentially risky for a backer and risky for your relations with the big 3 as well. A catchy 22 for you.

There was that "buy early and you get the full game" update that was confusing to me as an early backer (though it was appreciated) and had potentially bad relations with future backers. Honestly the promise of a MML-project had me from the beginning so I don't know if I needed to be catered to like that, I'd rather future backers get more of a reason like the platform console set so we can get this funded.

It is clear through the updates and your posts that you are very motivated to this project. I hope it works out and if it does not succeed, you re-launch with more clear terms on everything.
 
D

Damo1234

Neo Member
J-Spot said:
The complaints about game play footage stem directly from the fact that MN9 was a product that was not what many people had envisioned, so it's kind of a "fool me once, shame on you" scenario. Inafune is appealing to the same crowd that feel burned on his last project.
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I've seen two main criticisms about MN9 being "different" from what we expected.

While I've seen predominately favorable impressions from people that have played the Beta or played MN9 at E3, some people didn't like the "dash" and some elements of the gameplay. Fair enough. It would be quite difficult to get a good idea of what the final gameplay would be like from anything made before even getting kickstarter funding, however, so I don't think they could really prove that won't happen again through anything they can show us at this stage. What I will say is that MN9's director had basically no experience making a platformer. Red Ash's director is Masahiro Yasuma. In Megaman Legends he did events, putting in all those little flourishes that breathed life into that open world players explored. And then he was entrusted with the second game in the series, The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, and did a phenomenal job with it (in particular he found ways to mix up the Legends gameplay since the game had a new star). It's possible the gameplay he could come up with might not be what people want, but he's genuinely one of the most qualified people on the planet to head this up, and his resume should frankly impress people more than a rough demo.

The other criticism I've seen relates to graphics. Okay. That's even more fair, in my opinion. The pitch art was 2D, the finished product was 2.5D/3D.

If Comcept released Beck's model today and it looked like a decent current generation third person model, looking like a spiritual successor to Volnutt's design... will the people who have been going "fool me once" be satisfied? Or are people going "fool me once" without really putting much thought into what it was that rubbed them the wrong way about how MN9 turned out?
 
J

Jobbs

Banned
I'm still just aghast at this. I can't understand how it exists or why Inafune would be so inept as to think this was a good idea. I thought "Inafune was a businessman". Maybe it was raw hubris and cynicism?

In any case, between the opening of the MN09 KS and now, Inafune has managed to squander a lot of good will just to wring a few bucks out of people.

Damo1234 said:
I've seen two main criticisms about MN9 being "different" from what we expected.
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I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's not just that it looks like a different game than I'd hoped for (I was hoping this would be the next generation of Mega Man, full of energy and edgy as hell, like Mega Man X was at the time that it came out), but it's also the fact that it looks like trash. It's bland, it's dull, it's safe, it's wholly boring -- it's even annoying (the fucking huge text every time you kill stuff..)
 
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Damo1234

Neo Member
Jobbs said:
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's not just that it looks like a different game than I'd hoped for (I was hoping this would be the next generation of Mega Man, full of energy and edgy as hell, like Mega Man X was at the time that it came out), but it's also the fact that it looks like trash. It's bland, it's dull, it's safe, it's wholly boring -- it's even annoying (the fucking huge text every time you kill stuff..)
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"Text comes up when you kill stuff" is another decision made by the director. Koji Imaeda had never directed a platformer before.

Masahiro Yasuma directed one of the three Legends games to be released, and did events for Legends 1, playing a huge role in making the "open world" so interactive. He's one of the most qualified people you could find. It's certainly possible that he could make some blunders, but it's just not fair to ignore his resume because you dislike what a different director did.

You're basically saying you dislike Inafune and the MN9 devs so much that you distrust a different team of devs - ones with experience making this exact type of game - because they work for the same company. If you think about it, I think you'll realize that's unreasonable. These people have been waiting for years for another crack at a Legends style game, and the people in key positions have the experience needed to make it good. It's unlikely to revolutionize the industry at this budget, but if you just want to see something in the style of Legends but with some new twists and turns of its own... this is probably going to be the last chance to see it.
 
N

Newboi

Member
I can't lie, the finished product of MN9 has made me wary of RedAsh. I was actually kind of bored by the beta, but the graphics and artstyle really really really turned me off. I knew it was going to be 2.5D from the start, I just imagined the game being cell shaded with a bright color pallete and character models resembling the concept art. However, what we ended up with was a vary inexpensive looking 2.5D game with a blander color pallete, no cell shading, and chibi styled character models. When I first saw the game, I was like, "It looks like a fan made Unity engine game."

With MN9 being disappointing to me so far, I really needed to see some assurances of the games gameplay and visual design before I would hop on board. The other big issue is that I was completely confused by the initial messaging on the kickstarter, not to mention that the team was trying to fund an anime at the same time. Two things of which I had no guarantee of the quality or intended look. Lastly, the impression I got was that we would be kickstarting a prologue to use as a pitch for a large publisher to back without Comcept loosing the IP rights. I would have much rather had a Bloodstained type campaign where we would be helping to fund the full game with promised publisher backing on the reach of the funding goal (at least this felt more honest).

Overall, besides whatever issues with MN9, the biggest hurdle for this kickstarter was advertising a version of the product noone wanted. The end user wants a full game, not a glorified demo, regardless of if their pledge would just end up being a pre-order in disguise. The KalKanon incident would have been an awesome stretch goal for the full game. Instead we got the opposite, the stretch goal of the prologue is a full game.
 
D

Damo1234

Neo Member
Newboi said:
I can't lie, the finished product of MN9 has made me wary of RedAsh. I was actually kind of bored by the beta, but the graphics and artstyle really really really turned me off. I knew it was going to be 2.5D from the start, I just imagined the game being cell shaded with a bright color pallete and character models resembling the concept art. However, what we ended up with was a vary inexpensive looking 2.5D game with a blander color pallete, no cell shading, and chibi styled character models. When I first saw the game, I was like, "It looks like a fan made Unity engine game."

With MN9 being disappointing to me so far, I really needed to see some assurances of the games gameplay and visual design before I would hop on board. The other big issue is that I was completely confused by the initial messaging on the kickstarter, not to mention that the team was trying to fund an anime at the same time. Two things of which I had no guarantee of the quality or intended look. Lastly, the impression I got was that we would be kickstarting a prologue to use as a pitch for a large publisher to back without Comcept loosing the IP rights. I would have much rather had a Bloodstained type campaign where we would be helping to fund the full game with promised publisher backing on the reach of the funding goal (at least this felt more honest).

Overall, besides whatever issues with MN9, the biggest hurdle for this kickstarter was advertising a version of the product noone wanted. The end user wants a full game, not a glorified demo, regardless of if their pledge would just end up being a pre-order in disguise. The KalKanon incident would have been an awesome stretch goal for the full game. Instead we got the opposite, the stretch goal of the prologue is a full game.
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I'd argue that the "prologue" talk is just Comcept tripping over themselves in the terminology they're using.

The KalKanon Incident is expected to be a (roughly) 8-hour game about an ancient giant robot city on a collision course with a populated area. Beck will swoop in, do some heroics, and end the threat. It should be fine as a self-contained story, although it could also theoretically work as an introduction to the Red Ash world. Perhaps it could be expanded into something more.

They could have done a better job explaining that, but it does sound as if The KalKanon incident will have a beginning, middle, and an end. Perhaps with a few questions left unanswered in hopes of expanding on the universe more down the line, but that's not uncommon for games that hope to be the start of a series.

That said, I agree that it would be nice to see a model (at least of Beck) so get a good idea what sort of visual style we're going to be getting.
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Apexhell said:
update is up showing gamedev stuff

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/red-ash-the-indelible-legend/posts/1303354
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qA4Xukk.png


Cool gun
 
J

junpei

Member
Damo1234 said:
Here's the thing.

My favorite game made on kickstarter so far is Shadowrun Returns. They asked for 400,000 (about half of what Red Ash is asking for, but still in the hundreds-of-thousands range) and raised $1,836,447.

The kickstarter pitch is a man walking around saying "I think this is a great idea. Here's some of what we're hoping for and who will be working on it." A little concept art, none of which (as near as I can tell) was used in the game.

That's it. No gameplay, no models, very little info on who would be involved in the game development. There was never a console release at all, even though it was (sorta) a sequel to games made for SNES and Genesis. Just a guy on front of a camera, talking.

Now Shadowrun has a great fanbase, but I'm skeptical that it's orders of magnitude larger than Megaman Legends.

So the fact that people have been criticizing Red Ash so heavily for the console goals and the lack of gameplay video... my favorite game made by kickstarter would never have gotten made if people had dismissed it for those failings. I really don't want "you have to show us gameplay and announce consoles before we even consider it. No we don't care who will be working on it, their resume is irrelevant" to become the new standard.
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I agree and i feel that alot of people are glossing over this . double fine adventure didn't even have a name and it burst pass it goals. Mn9 didn't have game play until the last week and it reach it goals early on . game play is something that is nice to have but i don't think that it should be standard .

I feel that it is nice to have and it does boost the power of ones pitch but it shouldn't be seen as a fault . there are a multitude of other problem that this ks has but gameplay footage is kinda of a weak one . we cant say "well x successful game had gameplay when there are countless others successful that didn't have game play an

. the reason why we latched on to this is because of way this ks was poorly presented in the beginning .

maybe game play should be standard for certain ks like big-name publishers or something like that but I don't want it to become the standard for fear of what it means for little guys .
 
N

nynt9

Member
junpei said:
I agree and i feel that alot of people are glossing over this . double fine adventure didn't even have a name and it burst pass it goals. Mn9 didn't have game play until the last week and it reach it goals early on . game play is something that is nice to have but i don't think that it should be standard .

I feel that it is nice to have and it does boost the power of ones pitch but it shouldn't be seen as a fault . there are a multitude of other problem that this ks has but gameplay footage is kinda of a weak one . we cant say "well x successful game had gameplay when there are countless others successful that didn't have game play an

. the reason why we latched on to this is because of way this ks was poorly presented in the beginning .

maybe game play should be standard for certain ks like big-name publishers or something like that but I don't want it to become the standard for fear of what it means for little guys .
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Pretty sure the reason people ask for gameplay on this KS specifically is Inafune's track record with the bait-and-switch that happened with MN9. See this:

Sir_Crocodile said:
The main thing was the presentation. If you look at the concept art it was going to be a kinda jolly cell shaded game, a lot of nice primary colours with strong foreground elements.

What we're actually getting is a dull looking 3d game with muted colours and ridiculously busy backgrounds that are just offputting.

People will say "that was just a concept", which is true, and I wouldn't have minded so much if it was ever shown that inafune had any plans whatsoever to come up with something even close to that concept, but from the start of the development to the end they showed no signs whatsoever that this was the case.

Init creates made something for Iga that looked better then the mn9 end product before their kickstarter even finished, so it's not a technical issue with the staff, it's just inafune deciding to go a totally different way. It just really felt like a bait & switch to me, that was aimed at evoking nostalgia and opening my wallet. Which it did, so mission accomplished I guess.

I was also very unhappy with the existence of the "signature edition", which just felt like a direct slap in the face of everyone who'd backed high on the KS.

The second KS for the voice overs was weird, but it didn't really bother me, I just thought it an odd nonsense.
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S

Silvard

Member
I still maintain that some people (especially BudokaiMR2) should spend less time and effort trying to explain why some of the criticism is "wrong" and instead try to show us why this project is appealing and why we should back it.

Transparency and being "right" aren't going to fund this project, backer money will (maybe). Is it unfair that people are demanding things that other kickstarter campaigns got by without, that "it worked for Shenmue 3", that people without intimate knowledge of development realities (like Hyde's development experience) are judging the project harshly, that justified or unjustified resentment towards Inafune and/or Mighty No. 9 is spilling over and hurting this campaign? Is it all unfair? Tough shit. These are the people you are asking money from, it's their right to think and say and be as "unreasonable" as they want, it's your failure and your failure alone if you can't manage to convince them to give you the money that you need.

A kickstarter campaign isn't some sort of grant that you apply for and get as long as you fulfill the requirements of your predecessors, or are transparent enough. It's as much of a thing that you need to sell as the product you're trying to make is.

Also, I find ludicrous (and frankly almost insulting) the notion that Comcept is comfortable offering the 10 million dollars "full" game as a pledge reward because Inafune is a guy who can get things done™ and has business savvy, but wasn't comfortable confirming a console for release until recently because they have such deep connections with the platform holders that, unlike other people apparently, they can't even get a verbal promise and fear getting their game turned down. Yeah.

One thing I won't accuse this campaign of being is shady; life and Hanlon's razor have taught me to believe otherwise.
 
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NoFaceNico

Member
Wow. A snarky comment on the recent update actually brings up a very good point.

MN9_L.jpg


Why didn't they just make it Mighty No. 9 Legends?? I get the whole Red Ash/Re: Dash innuendo but people already associate MN9 with Mega Man so it seems like it would have fit right in.



Stay with me here, I think I have a plan, hear me out...

1) cancel the Red Ash game and anime Kickstarter campaigns
2) scrub all the Red Ash character designs... alright. alright. You can keep Call.
3) keep the giant robot setting
4) start refining the Red Ash prototype but with MN9 characters
5) Wait for MN9 to release
6) Launch a new Kickstarter for Mighty No. 9 Legends (full game) and include a downloadable demo with the pitch!

IT WILL MAKE ALL THE MONEY!!!
 
C

Cmagus

Member
NoFaceNico said:
Wow. A snarky comment on the recent update actually brings up a very good point.

MN9_L.jpg


Why didn't they just make it Mighty No. 9 Legends?? I get the whole Red Ash/Re: Dash innuendo but people already associate MN9 with Mega Man so it seems like it would have fit right in.



Stay with me here, I think I have a plan, hear me out...

1) cancel the Red Ash game and anime Kickstarter campaigns
2) scrub all the Red Ash character designs... alright. alright. You can keep Call.
3) keep the giant robot setting
4) start refining the Red Ash prototype but with MN9 characters
5) Wait for MN9 to release
6) Launch a new Kickstarter for Mighty No. 9 Legends (full game) and include a downloadable demo with the pitch!

IT WILL MAKE ALL THE MONEY!!!
Click to expand...

Honestly I think the world and characters for Red Ash are so much better than MN9 so I would say no I would prefer these characters. That video was cool and it's nice to see a little something to at least give some sort of idea on the look. The character model was really nice looking can't wait to see what it looks like finished and all lit up.
 
S

Servbot24

Banned
NoFaceNico said:
Wow. A snarky comment on the recent update actually brings up a very good point.

MN9_L.jpg


Why didn't they just make it Mighty No. 9 Legends?? I get the whole Red Ash/Re: Dash innuendo but people already associate MN9 with Mega Man so it seems like it would have fit right in.



Stay with me here, I think I have a plan, hear me out...

1) cancel the Red Ash game and anime Kickstarter campaigns
2) scrub all the Red Ash character designs... alright. alright. You can keep Call.
3) keep the giant robot setting
4) start refining the Red Ash prototype but with MN9 characters
5) Wait for MN9 to release
6) Launch a new Kickstarter for Mighty No. 9 Legends (full game) and include a downloadable demo with the pitch!

IT WILL MAKE ALL THE MONEY!!!
Click to expand...

Sorry man but that sounds horrible. I think the Red Ash universe looks way better than MN9 so far.
 
K

kewlbot

Member
i hope they dont scrap what they worked on if this campaign fails
they should relaunch it with some in engine footage if they ever get that far
 
A

A Link to the Past

Banned
Nyoro SF said:
This is definitely something I note not just from this Kickstarter, but from other company representatives when asking about failed games, projects or ideas. It wasn't our fault. Maybe we just did too good of a job. Clearly our fans just didn't understand our vision.

It speaks to true stubborn misunderstanding of why something failed.

Despite the pitfalls of this project, I don't think it's ever surpassed the terrible Mutant League Football kickstarter though; that's not a record that will be broken anytime soon.
Click to expand...

And even with MLF, you look and you see that Michael Mendheim has funded 16 Kickstarter projects, while Inafune's sitting on a big ol' goose egg for that. It tells me that he's not interested in participating in the Kickstarter culture, just that it's a good avenue for his business. :S

Damo1234 said:
Here's the thing.

My favorite game made on kickstarter so far is Shadowrun Returns. They asked for 400,000 (about half of what Red Ash is asking for, but still in the hundreds-of-thousands range) and raised $1,836,447.

The kickstarter pitch is a man walking around saying "I think this is a great idea. Here's some of what we're hoping for and who will be working on it." A little concept art, none of which (as near as I can tell) was used in the game.

That's it. No gameplay, no models, very little info on who would be involved in the game development. There was never a console release at all, even though it was (sorta) a sequel to games made for SNES and Genesis. Just a guy on front of a camera, talking.

Now Shadowrun has a great fanbase, but I'm skeptical that it's orders of magnitude larger than Megaman Legends.

So the fact that people have been criticizing Red Ash so heavily for the console goals and the lack of gameplay video... my favorite game made by kickstarter would never have gotten made if people had dismissed it for those failings. I really don't want "you have to show us gameplay and announce consoles before we even consider it. No we don't care who will be working on it, their resume is irrelevant" to become the new standard.
Click to expand...

Kickstarter never changes, Kickstarter always changes. People don't want to fund project anymore that don't show gameplay. Shit, games on Kickstarter are a tough sell as-is after enough failed attempts.
 
J

JonathanNemo

Member
Mauricio_Magus said:
They can do whatever they want except get rid of Call.




Make her the MC, screw Beck.
Click to expand...

I could actually see the spoiler comment generating interest in this campaign. Largely the good kind.

I've been pretty cold on the idea of a next generation (or is it a more anime?) Beck as protag. Like really, the thing that made MML interesting from a character standpoint was the womens, not the dude in blue with spiky hair that matches every other 90s anime protag.

Were it not for the whole "mml successor" bit I'm not even sure the concept behind this Kickstarter stands out enough. Certainly doesn't do much to preach to the not-converted. I could dwell on Inafune's stuff or how MN9 looks, but it's another bit that I believe is why this Kickstarter's having so much trouble getting real traction.

Too much Not-Megaman, not enough of its own identity, too much baggage from other Not-Megamans. Think it would be successful if it did more to claim a different audience. That's all.
 
Serenade_King

Serenade_King

Banned
NoFaceNico said:
2) scrub all the Red Ash character designs... alright. alright. You can keep Call.
Click to expand...
You want them to get rid of the best thing about the game, ARE YOU CRAZY!?

Anyway, I think they were using Blender for the 3D models.... makes me wanna return to it and try to make make my own Beck model. :D
 
B

BudokaiMR2

Member
Leona Lewis said:
Looks like you're not the only one in this thread playing coy then. He wasn't being literal, and was referring to smug, self-aggrandizing nonsense like:


I'm not exactly sure how the tone BudokaiMR2's striking with his responses is supposed to endear us to the project at all. Maybe try to understand the position of us potential customers? Maybe stop indicting our "perception" as intellectual dishonesty? Maybe just provide some respectful acknowledgement?

Meh, too much to ask apparently.
Click to expand...

I will admit that I could have probably worded that quoted part a bit more politely, but is it that hard to understand why it would frustrate me so much?

There is quite obviously a group of people who are being purposely obtuse about announcements such as the MN9 live action movie by Legendary.

I really don't think this can be written off as "Well people don't understand the movie industry."

I feel like that process is common knowledge for most people at this point. I don't expect to go into a Marvel movie announcement thread and see people posting "Well I really hope Marvel/Disney stops paying Sony to make Spider-man movies so he can be an Avenger!"

I don't feel like it takes that much thought to figure out that it's the opposite, and that rights holders sell off their movie rights to a studio.
However, somehow in comcept's case it is assumed that we are paying Legendary Pictures to make a film.

I have a feeling that Mauricio_Magus probably just saw someone else claiming this and assumed it was true, so not trying to point blame. If I offended him/her then I apologize. It is just an extremely silly statement that I have seen all too often which makes it frustrating.

Finally, I am not a marketing person. I never have been and never will be. It's in my nature to say exactly what is on my mind. Does that mean I should probably stay out of these sorts of threads? Probably!
However, I am first and foremost a member of this community and will continue to state my piece as I always have. I just also happen to be an official part of this project, which doesn't make that as easy to do as it used to be!.

Anyway...

Glad to see people are liking the new update. It has been fun working with Hyde to create the prototype! I am personally most impressed by the quality of the Beck model considering the time frame they had. Kazuishi Ito is VERY picky about his designs and it was pretty amazing to see the designer get it right on almost the first try. I can tell that really made Ito happy! We honestly were not sure if they would be able to get it rigged and everything this early.
 
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