The Broken Ska Record
Member
It's a lot of fun with friends. That's the only time I play the game.
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Red Letter Media |OT| of Movies, Murderers, and Pizza Rolls
- Thread starter Skiptastic
- Start date
It's a lot of fun with friends. That's the only time I play the game.
Davey Cakes
Member
Same. Playing on a team and coordinating with friends is super satisfying.
plasmawave
Banned
More MGSV stream tonight. Rich might or might not be there.
Come on Rich.
Come on Rich.
DoctorFling
Member
Ehh, he seems like such a diva, I think a potential BOTW episode with him would just be awkward, not funny. Just gimme Mike, Jay and Rich anyday.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
Can't wait for George Lucas on BotW.
Based on his twitter, it could be pretty great if he's just spending the entire time convincing them to do mushrooms instead of drinking so much.
The stream is live. (it's been on for 90 mins, but i just got here. sorry.)
plasmawave
Banned
Welp, they don't like MGSV. Surprise surprise.
At least Rich is appreciating the mechanics.
At least Rich is appreciating the mechanics.
Their discussion on the story was hilarious. I didn't catch the start, but was this the first Metal Gear that Jack has played? I can't imagine how long he would have lasted in MGS4.
plasmawave
Banned
Jack is like, "I gotta go around the MB to raise the soldier's morale because the game told me so eventho I hate it. I don't understand the theme or the story of the game because I couldn't be bothered to listen to the tapes even when Miller and Ocellot tell you to listen to them".
He fucking goes around the entire MB to raise morale every time lol.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Now,
back to 9/11.
back to 9/11.
Grinchy
Banned
hahahahaha wow
I am avoiding any stream or thread about MGS5 to make sure nothing gets spoiled, so it's unfortunate that I missed this.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I called it - they would hate the story and be fine with the game. I'd wonder what they think about the twist, but I doubt they'll see it. Assuming they even finish the game.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
^
They'll get to the end of Chapter 1, and see what Chapter 2 is about and call it bullshit. lol
They'll get to the end of Chapter 1, and see what Chapter 2 is about and call it bullshit. lol
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i think the reason Rich isn't into it more is probably because he is not invested in the storyline or the characters. Unfortunately if you haven't played any of the games or care about the story, I would also agree that its hard to care about anything that is going on.
i still have yet to really get into ground zeroes and havent bought V yet... i need to get on that this month
and they complain about the wacky bullshit being paired with dry military stuff -- that's the whole appeal of the story, its two extremes that intertwine together in a semi-plausible way that it could occur in reality. i also never really found the story all that convoluted as it pulls a lot from existing conspiracy theories, especially the Illuminati stuff. If you aren't interested in that sort of thing, it can be hard to get into and fully understand the story.
i knew jack would hate it because i think he's generally very cynical when it comes to big budget games and he doesnt give them any benefit whereas indie games that attempt to pull off the arty farty stuff get a pass since its an auteur or something, but that's what Kojima is on a grander scale.
i still have yet to really get into ground zeroes and havent bought V yet... i need to get on that this month
and they complain about the wacky bullshit being paired with dry military stuff -- that's the whole appeal of the story, its two extremes that intertwine together in a semi-plausible way that it could occur in reality. i also never really found the story all that convoluted as it pulls a lot from existing conspiracy theories, especially the Illuminati stuff. If you aren't interested in that sort of thing, it can be hard to get into and fully understand the story.
i knew jack would hate it because i think he's generally very cynical when it comes to big budget games and he doesnt give them any benefit whereas indie games that attempt to pull off the arty farty stuff get a pass since its an auteur or something, but that's what Kojima is on a grander scale.
brianmcdoogle
Member
The way you guys talk about it, it almost makes sense to not really give much thought or stock into their opinions about video games because they don't approach them with any openness or intellectual curiosity.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
it is hard to, but they are giving their own opinions about it which is fine, but it is a bit strange to hear what they are saying at times. they are more towards the "entertainment" side of this spectrum than the analysis side of game reviews, and it can be fine, but the way they frame their arguments is misleading in this aspect a bit.
its completely fine to shit on a game if they back it up with reasons, not just that "i can't get into it" and "i can't stand the story so i won't pay attention to it" -- these are not really valid criticisms, and they boil down to almost nothing. They say the dont pay attention to the story cause they hate it, but then they cant actually criticize EXACTLY why they hate it, because they dont know anything about it!
thats not how you review something legitimately. You have to research it (pay attention to all aspects of the experience you encounter, not tertiary sources like wikipedia) and then shit on it with your analysis/information, not just emotion or lack of understanding
i think this is probably the wrong game for their review format to take on. they're going to get a lot of shit from metal gear fans, IMO. their arguments and understanding of the game isn't going to be enough to be taken seriously very much and they'll just get a lot of shit for it. at least just from what we heard during wednesday's stream.
More_Badass
Member
They're personal criticisms. I don't see the issue.
I mean, if you're watching Pre-Rec impressions for the kind of review you'd get on Kotaku or Eurogamer, I could see why one would be disappointed or think they're reviewing games the wrong way or something
I think it's pretty silly to say they can't review a game like that or that they're going about it some misinformed way, as if there's a universal structure a review should follow.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i'm not saying that at all. i think the way they frame it is very important.
if they want to pass one of their videos off as a review why would it be outside of expectation that they are informed while doing so? are uninformed analytical opinions supposed to be valuable in some form? especially if they aren't very humorous? none of the edited videos are really funny like a Half in the Bag or Best of the Worst can be.
they can, and have, framed a couple of their videos as a personal experience thing, but that's not really the point of their edited reviews.
brianmcdoogle
Member
I argue all the time that people hide behind the idea of "opinion" far too often as if all opinions are valid and equal. If we take video games as art, as I'm sure many do because this is primarily a video game forum, then yes, there is subjectiveness to it. But, if I say "The movie Ratatouille is a reflection and meditation on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict because of the separation of the two groups, humans and rats, and that the rats, normally a caricature of Jews in anti-Zionist propaganda, are fearful of humans for their past acts, like the Holocaust and modern bus bombings." [1] Well, you could invoke the stupid Lebowski meme and say "well, that's just your opinion, man", but that's intellectually lazy on you to the same degree of the person making the remark or pulling something out of their ass with no foundation in the medium that they are discussing. Saying "I hate Zelda because I don't like the color green" or "I don't like stories in video games, so I hate when I'm expected to pay attention to a story or any narrative that explains what is going on and what to do" is, yeah, an opinion or a review, but shallow and lazy. Or, for myself, "I don't like horror movies because I find them gross and unsettling, and I don't like to feel those feels" is an ok thing to believe, but then to expand it and cast judgement on a or all horror movies then becomes a problem. Or, at least it should be.
[1]
[1]
This is a real conversation I overheard once that I will never forget. He had a goatee, a beret, and dressed in black and was talking to his friend in a movie theatre line about why Ratatouille was such a deep movie and misunderstood movie. Don't even get me started on what the food represented in the movie, and who George W Bush was in the film... spoilers! It isn't the critic nor the evil chef!
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
^ that's the thing with the story, they say they don't like it, but dont really break it down and explain why, so yeah, it definitely is lazy when they don't articulate how this game's story doesn't work for them, and deferring to a generalized statement with no substance doesn't do them or what they're trying to do justice. Rich's generalized statement is "I dont like the story in Metal Gear" while Jack's is "I don't like story in video games." They're essentially the same statement in the context of this game.
i figure they're smart enough to make something that is a legitimate analytical review, but they are basically just using Pre-Rec for filler projects. which would be fine if they framed the videos in a way that isn't trying to elevate their videos to that platform.
of course, this is just my opinion, but its not like they should be immune from criticism either. i still enjoy them no matter what happens, and i won't get angry about anything they do/say, really.
i figure they're smart enough to make something that is a legitimate analytical review, but they are basically just using Pre-Rec for filler projects. which would be fine if they framed the videos in a way that isn't trying to elevate their videos to that platform.
of course, this is just my opinion, but its not like they should be immune from criticism either. i still enjoy them no matter what happens, and i won't get angry about anything they do/say, really.
brianmcdoogle
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Jqu70c6XE&spfreload=10
Sure, and that's fine. And, it's the reason why I don't watch the Pre-Rec streams unless Jay is on, and why I don't watch the standard Pre-Rec videos on youtube anymore. I don't hate Rich and I don't hate Jack, and I don't hate people who enjoy or get something out of their stuff, but I get no value from the Pre-Rec stuff anymore (sans Jay when they bullshit for a few hours), and that's about it.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Spieler Eins
Member
So some MGSV rant will be the next PreRec?
BassForever
Member
Agree with the whole opinion defense being too quick to envoke. I had that argument with an irl friend who said that all the mgs games were terrible and when I tried to poke why he gave no reason other then "I didn't like them" and "its his opinion so it can't be wrong" and I almost wanted to slug him. No I'm not a big mgs fan I like the games and can appreciate the great things they do but I hate those kinds of comments about any form of medium. At least give some objective reason behind why you like or dislike something ie "i don't like the mgs5 story because its an overly convoluted mess and I've never been a fan of optional audio logs as a means to give narrative as you can miss important info". Ideally then go into a bit more detail but at least thats a solid framework to base an opinion off of
I don't really like Pre-Rec. I like Rich and Jack is okay (he kinda' tries to hard I think) but I just don't enjoy their show. The reasons they give for not liking a game range from being petty/nitpicky, to being flat out wrong, and/or missing the point of the game.
I mean, I was 8 years old when I was playing Sonic 2 and I never looked at the manual or anything. And I figured out that when I was running I could hit down and Sonic curls into a ball and will kill enemies. And these thirty-something dudes with the near limitless power of the internet at their disposal couldn't figure that out...
I mean, I was 8 years old when I was playing Sonic 2 and I never looked at the manual or anything. And I figured out that when I was running I could hit down and Sonic curls into a ball and will kill enemies. And these thirty-something dudes with the near limitless power of the internet at their disposal couldn't figure that out...
The Broken Ska Record
Member
There aren't any story bits in the
missions, right?
EXTREME
Just thought i'd post a timestamp for people who wanted to hear when they started to talk about MGS.
Start at 1:37:53, on Wednesday's stream, when jack gets there, that's when they start talking about it.
missions.
Start at 1:37:53, on Wednesday's stream, when jack gets there, that's when they start talking about it.
Correct, they're more like
challenge
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i think what i can finally sort of put my finger on why Pre-Rec (edited videos) isn't doing as well from a content standpoint compared to the other RLM shows is that Rich and Jack aren't coming from the same place in regards to games as they do with movies.
They have experience making movies/creating videos, so they have at least some sort of high level amount of experience and insight regarding videos or movies, which isn't true of games. When it comes to games, all they have is their gaming tastes and gaming history, which depending on what they are talking about or playing, can be very limited and narrow. They don't have a lot of frame of reference when it comes to a wide variety of genre, or much innate knowledge of industry figures (in the most recent example, Jack is asking who Kojima even is, and Rich knows of him but doesn't know what he really does) etc. Whereas they can think up actors, directors, producers, production companies, etc in their discussions of other movies more often in the other shows.
anyway, i don't know how much more people want to even talk about this lol. i just like sort of analyzing how far they've come and what they've accomplished in the year or so they've been doing Pre-Rec
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Yeah, I just kinda feel like Rich and Jack don't actually know enough about video games to be doing a video game show.
Not that they're the only ones guilty of this, by the way. Not by far.
EDIT: I should also point out I don't give any shits about MGS, either. Don't have any plans to play V. I'm just sayin' in general.
Not that they're the only ones guilty of this, by the way. Not by far.
EDIT: I should also point out I don't give any shits about MGS, either. Don't have any plans to play V. I'm just sayin' in general.
Lol, it's fucking videogames, people. It's fine to not like their show, but this talk of credibility and them not "getting" the game is pretty grating and eerily reminiscent of any typical Defense Force.
Also, contrary to what most assumed they went into Bloodborne previously having had a bad experience with the series and even so came out loving it. So much for them not keeping an open mind, lol.
Also, contrary to what most assumed they went into Bloodborne previously having had a bad experience with the series and even so came out loving it. So much for them not keeping an open mind, lol.
plasmawave
Banned
The problem is, especially with the case of MGSV, is that they clearly don't give a shit about the story but also trying to have a discussion about it.
If you're gonna talk about the story element of the game then you have to watch cutscenes and listen to the tapes. Period.
You either invest your time in it and do it properly or just don't talk about the story at all if you don't care.
If you're gonna talk about the story element of the game then you have to watch cutscenes and listen to the tapes. Period.
You either invest your time in it and do it properly or just don't talk about the story at all if you don't care.
This has nothing to do with a "defense force" or even liking the games in question.
Jack can't shut up about how much he hates the game and how bad it is specifically because he came up with his own rule for how the game has to be played.
Rich already convinced himself that he knows where the story is going because he's played Metal Gear 1 (oh boy) and decided to skip all the cutscenes.
I'd be really interested in seeing a negative review of the game, but not if they're going to have only partial understanding of the game and its contents.
Or maybe I just wanted to hear Rich make fun of that spectacular train wreck of a story.
Plus, I think PreRec is at its strongest when they talk about plot and character arcs, because that's the part other reviews/podcasts rarely cover in detail.
See, this is criticism without starting to talk about credibility as reviewers (for a game which they haven't actually put a review out for). Much better.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Their shovel Knight review was entirely based on whether the game was good based on nostalgia or good by itself. I don't see them doing a traditional review.
Spieler Eins
Member
lol, their talk on MGSV pretty much reflects the consensus I've gathered in the spoiler OT and other places on GAF the more time has passed since release, so I'm not sure why this in particluar is causing a discussion about their credibility (they are just hating the story for different reasons than longtime MGS fans).
Rich even tries his best to like the game and admits that his biggest problem is himself not having the time for a long game and also just not being good enough.
DoctorFling
Member
Awfully fun! MGS stories are such campy treats, shame the cutscenes are way too long in the other games.
Admiral Woofington
Member
well that's like your way to play us like a fucking fiddle man
brianmcdoogle
Member
I am the Diamond Dog?
Spieler Eins
Member
Does anyone else wanna see Rich Evans play Metal Gear Rising now? God I hope some people make him play Metal Gear Rising.
LOL. sorry, i edited my post now.
I was trying to figure out how to embed a tweet, i thought i could just post it, but that didn't work. So i went back and just quoted him instead.
EDIT: how do you embed tweets on here, is it possible. ?
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i guess that frees up my schedule for today after work. HOTS all day.
Take/crop a screenshot.
Upload it to Imgur.
Paste the image's URL into your post/reply (wrapped with [img] tags).
Copy the URL for the actual tweet itself.
Highlight the image URL in your post/reply, click on the "Insert Link" button, and paste the URL for the actual tweet. Your posted picture is now also a posted link.
Might also want to wrap the whole thing in [quote] tags.
It should come out looking pretty, like this:
