BobTheFork
Member
I'm watching it now, but I stopper right when the review started. Still waiting to hear if it's spoilery at all.
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Red Letter Media |OT| of Movies, Murderers, and Pizza Rolls
- Thread starter Skiptastic
- Start date
I'm watching it now, but I stopper right when the review started. Still waiting to hear if it's spoilery at all.
Escape Goat
Member
Oh, okay. Its back up now. I was getting 404 errors.
Good Job Bob
Member
Any spoilers?
They seem to be pretty good at separating spoilers...but I'm waiting to watch it tonight.
Good Job Bob
Member
Not going to watch the full thing until after I see the movie, seems they really enjoyed it though.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
There was no spoilers except the marked ones (at the end, they say SPOILER before it, but it doesn't end at 28:55 like they say, it goes till the end).
One thing they mention is The Importance of John Williams youtube vids. I never saw them before, but just did now. Holy shit that's good. New-thread worthy.
edit: Don't read the comments, spoilers.
One thing they mention is The Importance of John Williams youtube vids. I never saw them before, but just did now. Holy shit that's good. New-thread worthy.
edit: Don't read the comments, spoilers.
Holy shit, a Zaat reference lmao.
Davey Cakes
Member
I enjoyed their review and left some thoughts in the comment section.
It's awesome how these guys don't always fall for backlash. Mike's view that the emotional core is more important than the logic (in a movie like this, anyway) is refreshing after reading so much negativity on the internet from people who can't get over technical inconsistencies and the use of coincidences.
And THANK YOU Mike and Jay for acknowledging that The Avengers and TDKR are different sorts of movies that are going for different things.
It's awesome how these guys don't always fall for backlash. Mike's view that the emotional core is more important than the logic (in a movie like this, anyway) is refreshing after reading so much negativity on the internet from people who can't get over technical inconsistencies and the use of coincidences.
And THANK YOU Mike and Jay for acknowledging that The Avengers and TDKR are different sorts of movies that are going for different things.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
Can't watch it until I get home later this week. It sounds like they enjoyed it?
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, they both seemed pleased with it. The review was basically all positive, with some notes about the movie's potential issues. Jay liked it way more than he thought he would.
I love how they used this review to shit on The Amazing Spider Man some more.
Good Job Bob
Member
Ha, they shit on TAS some more in this one? Now I really can't wait to watch it, that movie deserves beatings for years and years to come.
krameriffic
Member
This is one of the reviews that I've really agreed with them on lately. Some of the ones from this summer, eh, not exactly on the same page as them, but here, I think they nailed it. The importance of the cathartic crescendos in this movie, the characters' emotional journey and the flow of the story rather than the technical aspects that everyone is complaining about really sums up how I felt after seeing it. This was an example of a really good trilogy ender in my opinion because it did such a good job of bringing the elements of the previous movies together along with that emotional core in order to create a really satisfying conclusion to the story.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
What was the point of that Hansel and Gretel example? Birds did eat the bread crumbs, that's why they got lost.
I fully agree. I thought Anne was competent, but Ledger's Joker was another level.
BobTheFork
Member
I will say that it hard to hear them say they don't think Nolan is a great direction when they don't seem to have watched earlier films or don't know them. That's when I started to really love him as a director, with Memento and The Prestige and Insomnia (I loved Insomnia). Those are the movies that I think really established his style. I don't think that style is really served with some of his more recent large-scale movies. I don't think he is a very good action director, but it's the characters and that emotion core they talk about in half in the bag that I think always works really well.
They never said that.
Right, a rather good review, I do agree with a lot of points, the emotional core being more important then technical flaws and plotholes, even the greatest movies have these. Do not agree about the ending, I thought that was huge pile of horseshit given the Batman mythos. Also, Anne was okay acting wise but her character was so fucking pointless.
I will say that the best review of The Dark Knight Rises I have personally seen is the one done by The Cinema Snob and his wife. (Spoilers)
http://thecinemasnob.com/2012/07/20/midnight-screening-the-dark-knight-rises.aspx?ref=rss
Also, in order to really understand why the TDKR has a not so good ending I recommend this video.
http://atopfourthwall.blogspot.com/2012/07/between-lines-batman.html
I will say that the best review of The Dark Knight Rises I have personally seen is the one done by The Cinema Snob and his wife. (Spoilers)
http://thecinemasnob.com/2012/07/20/midnight-screening-the-dark-knight-rises.aspx?ref=rss
Also, in order to really understand why the TDKR has a not so good ending I recommend this video.
http://atopfourthwall.blogspot.com/2012/07/between-lines-batman.html
BobTheFork
Member
Correct, they didn't compare the roles, they just said that both actors did a great job with their respective roles. They weren't sure about both actors when the parts were annouced but both did a great job.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Love that they brought up the very noticeable plot similarities between Bane and Shinzon from Star Trek Nemesis.
I do and indeed I think it a betrayal of the character.
WyndhamPrice
Member
This isn't the comics, this is Bruce Wayne as written by Christopher Nolan. For the arc established in Batman Begins it's perfect.
krameriffic
Member
I have trouble watching a review recorded in the car with the wife at 3:00 AM right after a midnight showing and thinking "yeah, he has thought this through". This is a grumpy first impressions from a tired person, not a pensive, fair review of a film.
I thought the movie covered this with his
8 years of being a recluse, unable to move on not because he was heartbroken over Rachael's death, but because he was unable to break his bonds with the Bat
How?
Nice review there, but i still have to see the movie so i'll see if i agree with them or not.
I also kinda like Nolan's films, but i think Inception's problems were far beyond its technicalities and plotholes, unfortunately.
Whereas the other Batman movies (or The Prestige, or Memento) had plot holes but didn't really matter, so the argument they made is sound in and out of itself, but i don't think it applies to Inception.
I also kinda like Nolan's films, but i think Inception's problems were far beyond its technicalities and plotholes, unfortunately.
Whereas the other Batman movies (or The Prestige, or Memento) had plot holes but didn't really matter, so the argument they made is sound in and out of itself, but i don't think it applies to Inception.
WyndhamPrice
Member
Look at Solo's post in the spoilers thread on page 82 with quotes from the two other movies. The trilogy really wasn't going to end any other way.
Well that is one of the core ideas of batman. The man dedicates everything to a struggle he will never overcome. It's the tragedy of the character. You can say it's Nolan's interpretation, but if that's the case then this Bruce Wayne is just a weaker, less interesting character imo.
Ether_Snake
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We have to put our review up as quickly as possible, let's do it in the parking lot right after seeing the movie and upload it to youtube with wifi!
On another note, I really wish HitB did dual movie reviews: one new, one old. It would be more interesting than talking about the same movies everyone is talking about.
Fair enough on the first part, not for everybody I guess.
The second part, I really did not feel the movie handled this well,
I think I might, just might have accepted it more if the alleged Selena Kyle romance gad worked, which it didn't, like at all. Maybe if Selena Kyle had been the true emotional core she was supposed to be and given Bruce something to live for post-Batman, I maybe could have bought it. Instead we got a forced paring because the plot said so bullshit. Sorry, I couldn't ignore the fact that she was the one who sold out Batman to save her own skin and then got tossed into jail and just kind of existed until the plot need her again and Batman trusts her just because. SHE LAMPSHADES THE FACT THAT SHE BETRAYED HIM! As far as getting over Rachael's death, that felt really incidental to the whole Gotham is burning, Bane is in command and is making Batman suffer thing. It really was a Rocky montage and Gotham needs it savior. Also, as somebody else has pointed out, it is not just Rachael's death he needed to get over. The deaths Bruce needs to get over are his parents, they just kind of forgot that point. Yea, so, I am not going to see that ending as anything other then badly-handled horseshit
Messofanego
Banned
Yeah, plot holes rarely affect my experience or opinion of a movie.
Great review as always. They should make the ASM hate a running gag.
Great review as always. They should make the ASM hate a running gag.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
He was able to get over his guilt from his parents death in the first film...
and it was stupid then but it does beg the question of why he continued.
Again Nolan made so many changes to batman to fit his story that his batman isn't nearly as interesting as he thinks.
The Red Letter Media review is probably the most level-headed take on the movie I've seen from anybody. The only two problems that really stuck out as in genuine need of fixing were
and
The problems that Bruce Wayne faced in the movie were exactly what the first two films had been building to, thematically. His personal conflict over Rachael's death was the biggest weight on his mind at the end of the second film, which served to set up his arc as Bruce Wayne in the third film. The fall of organized crime in Gotham and the demonizing of Batman served to set up his eight year absence, and half of Bane's role as a villain was to create a need for Batman to return. The other half of his role served to
. Even if the arcs don't take the characters where you'd like them to go, they work as Nolan's own take on Batman.
In the Nolan universe, each Batman movie has one or two themes, and just about everything that is said or done is tied very closely to the themes. In my opinion, this is a big part of why the Batman movies handle themselves better than Spiderman, X-Men, and most other hero franchises.
the day-to-night change in the chase out of the stock exchange
Wayne's return to Gotham.
The problems that Bruce Wayne faced in the movie were exactly what the first two films had been building to, thematically. His personal conflict over Rachael's death was the biggest weight on his mind at the end of the second film, which served to set up his arc as Bruce Wayne in the third film. The fall of organized crime in Gotham and the demonizing of Batman served to set up his eight year absence, and half of Bane's role as a villain was to create a need for Batman to return. The other half of his role served to
tie the previous films to this one
In the Nolan universe, each Batman movie has one or two themes, and just about everything that is said or done is tied very closely to the themes. In my opinion, this is a big part of why the Batman movies handle themselves better than Spiderman, X-Men, and most other hero franchises.
krameriffic
Member
I was trying to point out that Rachael's death was just a cover for why he was really so distraught:
his own insecurities and personal feelings of failure as Batman, and his inability to give that role up.
To some degree, I will agree with you about his parents' death. That arc was covered heavily in the first movie but was never even touched on in TDK, and nobody held it against that movie. The events of the final act of TDKR hearkened back to [MAJOR SPOILERS]
BB by comparing the climb out of the prison to his ascent from the well as a boy, but it focused less on the role of his parents' death as his motivation and more on the immediate events happening NOW. His obsession with saving Gotham, the sense of futility brought on by Bane kicking his ass, and then finally the catharsis of overcoming it all and saving Gotham. It all worked SUPER well IMO, and they just needed a dash of the events of his childhood to give us a nostalgic feeling and to tie everything together.
I didn't really feel like they were left out, but more subtly hinted at through Alfred's cautionary tales and especially the final sequence where they bury him next to his parents' tombstones. Saving Gotham once and for all is his redemption not only for his parents' death, but for Harvey Dent's fall, Rachael's death, and all the lies and misery he and Gotham endured during his time as the Bat. They don't beat you over the head with the parents as his major psychological issue, but it is most certainly not absent from the movie.
I didn't really feel like they were left out, but more subtly hinted at through Alfred's cautionary tales and especially the final sequence where they bury him next to his parents' tombstones. Saving Gotham once and for all is his redemption not only for his parents' death, but for Harvey Dent's fall, Rachael's death, and all the lies and misery he and Gotham endured during his time as the Bat. They don't beat you over the head with the parents as his major psychological issue, but it is most certainly not absent from the movie.
I'm a little disappointed in RLM's conversation this time. I do partly agree with Mike that plot holes aren't crucial in all genres, and that much of the minor complaints are just noise that misses the point of a film like this one.
But I can't really follow him with this concept of an "emotional core" to the film. Had the film spent more of its efforts on the emotions of a few manageable characters in the latter half, I might be able to agree. But on the contrary, what I see driving the film's overly deliberate plot developments has little to do with an emotional or character story, and has much more to do with hurriedly aligning plot points and characters in service of a grand allegory, one that is desperate to convince us of its great significance. And yet it has little payoff beyond the same kind of tired truisms we were beaten over the head with in the previous film with all that talk of heroes we need or deserve.
There's so much in the film that works well and that I love, but most of that comes down to scenes of actual dialogue (Silena and Bruce, etc) which mostly showcase some excellent acting. The plot, however, drags the film down more and more in the later parts, and you get too many characters that are merely allegorical props and stock types,
. I'll also add that
.
But I can't really follow him with this concept of an "emotional core" to the film. Had the film spent more of its efforts on the emotions of a few manageable characters in the latter half, I might be able to agree. But on the contrary, what I see driving the film's overly deliberate plot developments has little to do with an emotional or character story, and has much more to do with hurriedly aligning plot points and characters in service of a grand allegory, one that is desperate to convince us of its great significance. And yet it has little payoff beyond the same kind of tired truisms we were beaten over the head with in the previous film with all that talk of heroes we need or deserve.
There's so much in the film that works well and that I love, but most of that comes down to scenes of actual dialogue (Silena and Bruce, etc) which mostly showcase some excellent acting. The plot, however, drags the film down more and more in the later parts, and you get too many characters that are merely allegorical props and stock types,
like the cop who stubbornly refuses to fight yet is eventually turned on to the noble struggle in order to suffer a predictable death
Talia's plot and nearly every scene featuring her was just terribly acted, and that twist was an unnecessary gear in the plot's machinery that significantly weakened the impact of the last minutes
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
God dammit. I need to resist the urge to click those black boxes! I need to see this movie before I regret it.
Skiptastic
Member
I really enjoyed the review. It's not as hilarious as a Jack and Jill review, but it's even headed, talks about what works and what doesn't, and points out plot holes but is mature enough to identify that they don't matter as much, if at all.
Killing off Joe Chill and recognizing that he was a symptom of a larger problem in BB was one of the smartest things Nolan did in his trilogy. I didn't feel it was necessary to get into it anymore.
Excellent HitB. A very smart analysis of why some movies just work in spite of production or editing issues.
Excellent HitB. A very smart analysis of why some movies just work in spite of production or editing issues.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I like that hilarious reviews are an exception with them, though. This is a format that works great for them, I think: they have a chance to write funny skits, and they can be serious about what works/doesn't work in these movies because they know their shit. I wasn't really captivated with tdkr like I was the last movie, but all their points were so spot-on.
I need it explained to me that the ending was bad? The ending was excellent. Why would I want to listen to some chumps essay on why he thinks its bad?
