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[ERotIC]

they have a history of cracking a joke at it if that's what you're saying. They're cynical and tend to see it from a commercialized side. But in this case they weren't any more cynical that they usually were and said there are better options for role models and that media using a version of 'Finally women have a role model to follow!' is undermining actual women who are better vs a fictionalized warrior.Which was just them being them.

Reminder that in a BotW episode they made fun of and joked about a point GAF would attack them on when they said 'if you didn't vote for Trump that's just as bad as voting for him' and proceed to laugh. They're very much a mix of different degrees of political opinions, but for them nothing is above mocking or joking about.

This.

They're very much a comedy site first and foremost, and they have actively shown annoyance that there are now online communities that hang on every word they say like it's a deep-rooted personal view and not jokes for the sake of passive entertainment.

 

[ERotIC]

Gross. Don't put him with that bigot.

Josh and Jay is love.

How on earth is Jack a bigot?

You can't throw around words like that and not provide examples of why you feel this way.

 

[Sanjuro]

How on earth is Jack a bigot?

You can't throw around words like that and not provide examples of why you feel this way.

Because he won't discredit or differ from Rich's hot takes?

Are you new?

 

[Oreoleo]

Because he won't discredit or differ from Rich's hot takes?

Are you new?

Rich isn't worth arguing or disagreeing with. He just digs his heels in and refuses to budge.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I don't think not arguing against your friends with their hot takes is something to consider you a bigot. Maybe you don't feel like arguing or correcting them if it's a joke and you feel it isn't worth getting into an argument over and harming relationships even if momentarily. He might take his friendship over his differing opinion on topics.

 

[Sanjuro]

I don't hate any of them, I'm just being fair and balanced. Jack simply hates women and minorities. It's that simple!

 

[caliph95]

I don't hate any of them, I'm just being fair and balanced. Jack simply hates women and minorities. It's that simple!

Obviously of course

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

I don't hate any of them, I'm just being fair and balanced. Jack simply hates women and minorities. It's that simple!

Why else would he shave his head...

 

[Sanjuro]

Why else would he shave his head...

 

[Admiral Woofington]

i just want them to review another bad movie and not the next hot topic film so we can go back to memes.

 

[caliph95]

gif of a rare black Nazi

 

[Sanjuro]

gif of a rare black Nazi

LAHitler.

 

[ERotIC]

Because he won't discredit or differ from Rich's hot takes?

Are you new?

New to NeoGAF, not new to RLM.

EDIT- I feel like I'm missing an inside joke here.

 

[firehawk12]

He literally argued with Rich about Wonder Woman on the stream until Rich just said nope and did a human interpretation of a bail out gif. lol

 

[jviggy43]

This.

They're very much a comedy site first and foremost, and they have actively shown annoyance that there are now online communities that hang on every word they say like it's a deep-rooted personal view and not jokes for the sake of passive entertainment.

Except, being cynical doesn't absolve them from having a stupid cynical opinion; nor was that take really done in a joking manner. They spent 3-4 minutes going over why women shouldn't be excited or want a fictional woman role model and then made several comments about the violence in the movie and why that negated any serious consideration for the character to be someone little girls look up to.

Again, stupid argument on them. I don't think they did it intentionally as misogynists or to push a sexist agenda but the fact that they made a big deal about super heroes not being role models for little girls, and specific to this super hero who is also a woman while naming nothing but real life women who should be role models, is a sexist argument. They didn't take issue with this in the several years worth of HITB when they were reviewing all the other super hero movies, it was tailored to this one. In their examples of real life role models, they didn't discredit male super heroes or point towards male role models. It was specifically with women. Women have just as much right to have fictional role models and representation as men do and thats ultimately why the movie is being praised for not only being good but also an outlet for female representation. Really no idea why anyone would be against that.

I love these guys, but sometimes they just say stupid shit.

 

[ERotIC]

Except, being cynical doesn't absolve them from having a stupid cynical opinion; nor was that take really done in a joking manner. They spent 3-4 minutes going over why women shouldn't be excited or want a fictional woman role model and then made several comments about the violence in the movie and why that negated any serious consideration for the character to be someone little girls look up to.

That's not really what they said though.

 

[jviggy43]

That's not really what they said though.

Yes it is.

 

[ERotIC]

Yes it is.

Oh, well I'm convinced then!

Oh wait, let's look at what they actually said.

What they said:

"There seems to be confusion between what is a 'role model' and what is 'entertainment'...Anyone over the age of 6 should not be looking up to Wonder Woman".

"As an Amazonian princess myself, I'm glad I finally have someone in film to represent me" /s

"I think a miserable nightmarish movie about the horrors of WWI is gonna be very, VERY appealing to 10 year old girls." /s

You're speculating a lot on two snarky offhanded jokes and one statement that suggests Mike thinks comic book characters shouldn't be politicized and used as representation, or that grown adults should regard it seriously outside of entertainment.

 

[jviggy43]

And again, where was this critique over the last several years with regards to superheroes as role models in their videos? If its just "superheroes shouldn't be role models" or "fictional characters shouldn't be role models", than why is it that 1. this is the first time theyve taken issue with this despite the bevy of superhero movies theyve reviewed 2. specifically tailored it to women role models and wonderwoman 3. randomly brought up ghostbusters which they also had a horrible take on as well and was also a female driven film?

 

[Data West]

has anyone in here stated that theyre upset?

Nobody ever says they're upset when trying to win a virtual argument

 

[jviggy43]

Nobody ever says they're upset when trying to win a virtual argument

Lol, wut?

 

[ERotIC]

And again, where was this critique over the last several years with regards to superheroes as role models in their videos? If its just "superheroes shouldn't be role models" or "fictional characters shouldn't be role models", than why is it that 1. this is the first time theyve taken issue with this despite the bevy of superhero movies theyve reviewed 2. specifically tailored it to women role models and wonderwoman 3. randomly brought up ghostbusters which they also had a horrible take on as well and was also a female driven film?

They poke fun at grown men being too infatuated with Star Wars/ superheroes all of the time.

 

[jviggy43]

They poke fun at grown men being too infatuated with Star Wars/ superheroes all of the time.

Being cynical about nerd culture and loving everything that comes out which is associated with star wars is a far cry from "women are happy to finally have a female driven movie in order to promote representation". Not an apt comparison and one that I keep seeing people try to use to defend the position.

 

[ERotIC]

Being cynical about nerd culture and loving everything that comes out which is associated with star wars is a far cry from "women are happy to finally have a female driven movie in order to promote representation". Not an apt comparison and one that I keep seeing people try to use to defend the position.

But they aren't suggesting that equal representation within entertainment is a problem, just utilizing those representations as a role model in life is taking popcorn entertainment too seriously.

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is Mike complaining that CA: Civil War's plot became too political and reflected real world events too closely when all he wanted was an entertaining comic book movie. He's been pretty consistent on not wanting his popcorn movies to be politicized or reflect too much on the real world that they lose their fun.

And he wasn't even insinuating that the actual Wonder Woman film did that, just some of the marketing and fan reactions.

 

[caliph95]

Yeah its him being cynical if anything

 

[jviggy43]

But they aren't suggesting that equal representation within entertainment is a problem, just utilizing those representations as a role model in life is taking popcorn entertainment too seriously.

The best example I can think of off the top of my head is Mike complaining that CA: Civil War's plot became too political and reflected real world events too closely when all he wanted was an entertaining comic book movie. He's been pretty consistent on not wanting his popcorn movies to be politicized or reflect too much on the real world that they lose their fun.

And he wasn't even insinuating that the actual Wonder Woman film did that, just some of the marketing and fan reactions.

But again this comes back to, this is a problem, despite all of their super hero movie reviews, that they felt needed to be discussed here and not elsewhere or for any of the other movies. Its very specific to women and why its stupid to be happy about a fictional character.

Plus the underlying notion of dismissing fictional characters who embody traits many would view as admirable, is stupid in and of itself. As someone else mentioned, these guys clearly have fictional characters that have effected them the way many would describe role models do. There is nothing wrong with including a fictional character who embodies traits you aspire to have alongside real life role models. I just think its an all around dumb argument and there really is no getting around the fact that they chose to have this conversation with regards to women and fictional women role models. I doubt they meant it to be anything more than their typical marketing cynicism; it never the less is a poor argument.

 

[ERotIC]

But again this comes back to, this is a problem, despite all of their super hero movie reviews, that they felt needed to be discussed here and not elsewhere or for any of the other movies. Its very specific to women and why its stupid to be happy about a fictional character.

Huh? I included at least an example of them discussing similar issues in another video in the post you quoted.

They don't specifically bring up superheroes being marketed as an idol for children because other superhero movies haven't done that in recent memory.

And two sarcastic offhand comments about it hardly make it sound like they saw it as this big huge problem. At most they seem to think it's silly.

Plus the underlying notion of dismissing fictional characters who embody traits many would view as admirable, is stupid in and of itself. As someone else mentioned, these guys clearly have fictional characters that have effected them the way many would describe role models do. There is nothing wrong with including a fictional character who embodies traits you aspire to have alongside real life role models. I just think its an all around dumb argument and there really is no getting around the fact that they chose to have this conversation with regards to women and fictional women role models. I doubt they meant it to be anything more than their typical marketing cynicism; it never the less is a poor argument.

And I think that nothing in this video is particularly inconsistent with their previous cynical view of marketing and politicizing popcorn entertainment. It's only noticeable when it's addressed at the latest hot-button issue movie. I do get the feeling that they were just going to be in a no-win situation when they posted a review to this movie.

 

[imBask]

this debate

 

[Schlorgan]

this debate

.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

It's a debate that can be solved very easily: if it bothers you that much, then you should consider not watching. I understand you may love their content but hate their opinion, but 2 pages of "how insensitive are they? My god!" is enough for me. It's not like it's ignored, but they are middle aged men they aren't going to stop making insensitive cynical jokes if that's what their fans like as a whole.

I just want a thread to post pictures of alcoholic mike. I have the rest of gaf to argue with about how insensitive they are.

 

[imBask]

let's have 2 pages about the etymology of the cake they used in the video, and how the ingredients used in the cake mix were aquired from exploitation and how Mike hates childrens

 

[Admiral Woofington]

let's have 2 pages about the etymology of the cake they used in the video, and how the ingredients used in the cake mix were aquired from exploitation and how Mike hates childrens

Actually jokes aside, that fucking episode made me go buy cake when I've doing so well on my exercise and diet. Subliminal message of delicious cake.

 

[morningbus]

The "like it or leave it" attitude is dangerous and what turns YouTube fanbases into weird, sycophantic echo chambers.

I mean, we're already two thirds of the way there already.

But saying that people can't talk about the stuff they talk about in their videos isn't healthy.

 

[imBask]

The "like it or leave it" attitude is dangerous and what turns YouTube fanbases into weird, sycophantic echo chambers.

I mean, we're already two thirds of the way there already.

But saying that people can't talk about the stuff they talk about in their videos isn't healthy.

it's more of a "maybe don't spend 40h a week analyzing every syllable in a comedy video" type deal

Trying to make assumptions on who they are and what they believe in based on jokes they made is a waste of time, and a little creepy

 

[morningbus]

it's more of a "maybe don't spend 40h a week analyzing every syllable in a comedy video" type deal

Trying to make assumptions on who they are and what they believe in based on jokes they made is a waste of time

Yeah, absolutely. But what's being discussed right now isn't that. It's a point they were making about fictional role models. There wasn't a joke.

And, hell, I even agree with them in the abstract. I don't think you should use superheroes as role models. But kids do and it's shortsighted to not understand that girls should have the same kind of access to things, even if they ultimately aren't the best.

 

[imBask]

Yeah, absolutely. But what's being discussed right now isn't that. It's a point they were making about fictional role models. There wasn't a joke.

And, hell, I even agree with them in the abstract. I don't think you should use superheroes as role models. But kids do and it's shortsighted to not understand that girls should have the same kind of access to things, even if they ultimately aren't the best.

so you think they're wrong in a way, probably due to ignorance and that's fine. Now what if everyone stopped right there instead of pushing that idea to the point of assuming they voted for trump and hate women? that's my point

you don't have to win an argument, you can disagree with people

 

[morningbus]

so you think they're wrong in a way, probably due to ignorance and that's fine. Now what if everyone stopped right there instead of pushing that idea to the point of assuming they voted for trump and hate women? that's my point

you don't have to win an argument, you can disagree with people

I think the Trump guy was joking. Everyone else in the conversation has repeatedly said how they don't think they're bad people.

This conversation is fine is my point. It's been ratcheted up a few notches because everyone wants to secretly call each other snowflakes and it's bubbling under the surface, but it's fine.

 

[jviggy43]

I'll gladly stop so as not to derail the thread any longer, but as pointed out, I'm not offended or bothered, and I never said they voted for trump or hate women.

 

[imBask]

I'll gladly stop so as not to derail the thread any longer, but as pointed out, I'm not offended or bothered, and I never said they voted for trump or hate women.

so you're defending Trump?

Spoiler

;;;;;;;;

 

[jviggy43]

so you're defending Trump?

Spoiler

;;;;;;;;

 

[davepoobond]

hey guys what's going on when do you think they will watch exploding varmints 2?

 

[Schlorgan]

hey guys what's going on when do you think they will watch exploding varmints 2?

They should do commentary tracks for the whole Exploding Varmints series.

 

[halfbeast]

wow, I thought there's been a huge influx of RLM videos, because this thread gained a couple of pages since my last visit.

but nah...

 

[firehawk12]

You guys are all Sensitive Joss Whedons.

(Honestly, they bring it on themselves by bringing it up all the time. I expect whenever Black Panther gets a movie, it'll come up again).

 

[SpaceWolf]

You guys are all Sensitive Joss Whedons.

(Honestly, they bring it on themselves by bringing it up all the time. I expect whenever Black Panther gets a movie, it'll come up again).

"Why do black children need a character like Black Panther as a role model! Why not Isaac Newton?!"

 

[firehawk12]

"Why do black children need a character like Black Panther as a role model! Why not Isaac Newton?!"

We have a whole MONTH for Black people! etc etc etc.

I mean, whatever. As long as they don't make JonTron style rant videos, I'm fine. Rich refusing to share his political opinions (for the most part) on Twitch helps too. Ignorance is bliss and all that.

 

[caliph95]

"Why do black children need a character like Black Panther as a role model! Why not Isaac Newton?!"

"Why is moonlight such a big deal, it's just a movie"

 

[imBask]

"Why is moonlight such a big deal, it's just a movie"

except the characters in moonlight aren't dodging bullets in spandex during WW1

which was their only point, which everyone is ignoring

 

[Budi]

We just had a thread in Gaf about "your heroes". It was disheartening to see people list mostly comic book and anime characters. RLM was right on the money that Patty Jenkins deserves the admiration and pedestal more than fictional character does. And they also pointed out that it was about a time for Wonder Woman to get her own feature film. They didn't minimize the importance of having representation in the media, but letting fictional characters overshadow real people. Last year Hidden Figures celebrated and told the story of real women, women to look up to. Hardly got any attention from Gaf, there weren't this same excitement when movie shined a light on real life heroes. We don't need written fantasy to have powerful, intelligent and heroic women. Having women in movie leads is important, having women direct movies is important, having women writing movies is important, they weren't arguing the opposite.

Saying that finally girls have a role model to look up to is quite insulting.

 

[jett]

Maybe I'm a weirdo but growing up I never in my life looked up to/aspired to be/or considered a fictional character of any sort to be "my hero."