Yes. I think the combat is unique enough to sway you. It's not as open as GTA.What a shame...
Thank you, UFG, for creating ModNation Racers, I have soooo many great memories of playing that game.
I've never played Sleeping Dogs. Would you guys recommend it to someone who likes 3rd person action/adventures games (e.g. Uncharted, inFamous, Assassin's Creed), but isn't a fan of GTA?
We gotten some amazing indie games that were made by small teams.
No it sold 1.75 by March 2013.
Yes. I like GTA series, but not a fan and didn't even finish Vice City and San Andreas. But Sleeping Dogs was one of my favorite games of 2012. It's open world, but it's not a GTA clone and has its own style and atmosphere. Don't know about it's price these days, but I think you should play it.What a shame...
Thank you, UFG, for creating ModNation Racers, I have soooo many great memories of playing that game.
I've never played Sleeping Dogs. Would you guys recommend it to someone who likes 3rd person action/adventures games (e.g. Uncharted, inFamous, Assassin's Creed), but isn't a fan of GTA?
What a shame...
Thank you, UFG, for creating ModNation Racers, I have soooo many great memories of playing that game.
I've never played Sleeping Dogs. Would you guys recommend it to someone who likes 3rd person action/adventures games (e.g. Uncharted, inFamous, Assassin's Creed), but isn't a fan of GTA?
People probably didn't see a sequel to DX HR selling less either... sometimes things just happen tho.First game sold two million copies. I don't see the sequel selling less at all, so why are we making excuses for SE?
Last generation was Pandemic and their little Jewel The Saboteur
Now UFG with Sleeping Dogs
Sad news
To bw fair this is Square Enix Europe, formely Eidos, we're talking about. They can't market a game to save their lives. They absolutely burn money on ancillary marketing while not at all focusing on the actual primary marketing like game trailers, playable builds at conferences, preview events etc.People probably didn't see a sequel to DX HR selling less either... sometimes things just happen tho.
Plus, didn't SD need to sell like at least half that more to be a base line success for S-E? They sunk a lot of money into it I guess... Emma Watson don't do media circus rounds for free.
Triad Wars was probably S-E basically saying: 'sorry, SD wasn't profitable [enough], so we're not funding SD2.... but hey, why not re-use the SD1 engine and assets to get a higher ROI -- you make this game, get us the mobi money with far higher ROI margins, and maybe then we'll consider a SD2'
I'm not sure if UFG just overspent inefficiently on marketing or production, S-E overspent on marketing, the spending was reasonable but S-E's standard for success was too high, but whatever the case, it's clearly a case not of sales or revenue but profit.
I mean, SD is amazing but it's production values are not that high -- should it really have needed 4 million sales just to be 'profitable enough'? Could they have kept costs lower and still developed mostly the same game? Maybe... I mean, did it really need Emma Watson for basically 10 minutes? She probably spent more time doing media circus interviews than actual voice acting. Did it really need Edison Chen or quite as many licenses for its radio? Did those awesome live action trailers really turn a profit in terms of their expenses versus how much they increased sales?
I mean, who knows... and who knows who's really responsible for various expense decisions.
Really wished they'd been able to have kept costs down tho because they probably could have cut a few expensive marketing or voice acting/licenses things, and it would have still been 99% of the amazing game that is -- probably in my Top 5 favorite games of the last 10 years. And if they had delivered pretty much the same game but only had needed 2 million sales to satisfy S-E's investment, maybe we'd have a SD2.
Hindsight and all that though... I'm not blaming anyone -- I'm thankful we got the first one. But there could be some lessons to learn. I'm sort of worried about Deus Ex in the same way... I was a bit worried about the new Hitman, too -- or whether S-E would ever fund a new Kane & Lynch.
It'd be nice to find a happy medium where a sort of SD2, Deus Ex MD2, even Kane & Lynch were maybe a little less AAA in funding to maybe try keep costs down because I think those sort of games could still be awesome as AA and it'd be a lot safer financially in terms of securing sequels. I'd rather have had a AA SD1 and SD2 than just a AAA SD1, and games like Deus Ex or Kane & Lynch could work awesome with AA budgets too.
Anyhow, again, not criticism, just lamenting since Sleepy Dawgs is such a gem IMO.
ooops yeah, should have made that distinction. did the same thing in that deus ex/uk thread maybe.To bw fair this is Square Enix Europe, formely Eidos, we're talking about. They can't market a game to save their lives. They absolutely burn money on ancillary marketing while not at all focusing on the actual primary marketing like game trailers, playable builds at conferences, preview events etc.
This post is actually a great example of how most consumers misunderstand modern AAA game development. Everything you pointed to as an example of budgetary excess on SE's part were incredibly small expenditures compared to the cost of developing the game. Removing all of them wouldn't have really moved the needle at all in terms of sales expectations.People probably didn't see a sequel to DX HR selling less either... sometimes things just happen tho.
Plus, didn't SD need to sell like at least half that more to be a base line success for S-E? They sunk a lot of money into it I guess... Emma Watson don't do media circus rounds for free.
Triad Wars was probably S-E basically saying: 'sorry, SD wasn't profitable [enough], so we're not funding SD2.... but hey, why not re-use the SD1 engine and assets to get a higher ROI -- you make this game, get us the mobi money with far higher ROI margins, and maybe then we'll consider a SD2'
I'm not sure if UFG just overspent inefficiently on marketing or production, S-E overspent on marketing, the spending was reasonable but S-E's standard for success was too high, but whatever the case, it's clearly a case not of sales or revenue but profit.
I mean, SD is amazing but it's production values are not that high -- should it really have needed 4 million sales just to be 'profitable enough'? Could they have kept costs lower and still developed mostly the same game? Maybe... I mean, did it really need Emma Watson for basically 10 minutes? She probably spent more time doing media circus interviews than actual voice acting. Did it really need Edison Chen or quite as many licenses for its radio? Did those awesome live action trailers really turn a profit in terms of their expenses versus how much they increased sales?
I mean, who knows... and who knows who's really responsible for various expense decisions.
Really wished they'd been able to have kept costs down tho because they probably could have cut a few expensive marketing or voice acting/licenses things, and it would have still been 99% of the amazing game that is -- probably in my Top 5 favorite games of the last 10 years. And if they had delivered pretty much the same game but only had needed 2 million sales to satisfy S-E's investment, maybe we'd have a SD2.
Hindsight and all that though... I'm not blaming anyone -- I'm thankful we got the first one. But there could be some lessons to learn. I'm sort of worried about Deus Ex in the same way... I was a bit worried about the new Hitman, too -- or whether S-E would ever fund a new Kane & Lynch.
It'd be nice to find a happy medium where a sort of SD2, Deus Ex MD2, even Kane & Lynch were maybe a little less AAA in funding to maybe try keep costs down because I think those sort of games could still be awesome as AA and it'd be a lot safer financially in terms of securing sequels. I'd rather have had a AA SD1 and SD2 than just a AAA SD1, and games like Deus Ex or Kane & Lynch could work awesome with AA budgets too.
Anyhow, again, not criticism, just lamenting since Sleepy Dawgs is such a gem IMO.
People probably didn't see a sequel to DX HR selling less either... sometimes things just happen tho.
Plus, didn't SD need to sell like at least half that more to be a base line success for S-E? They sunk a lot of money into it I guess... Emma Watson don't do media circus rounds for free.
Triad Wars was probably S-E basically saying: 'sorry, SD wasn't profitable [enough], so we're not funding SD2.... but hey, why not re-use the SD1 engine and assets to get a higher ROI -- you make this game, get us the mobi money with far higher ROI margins, and maybe then we'll consider a SD2'
I'm not sure if UFG just overspent inefficiently on marketing or production, S-E overspent on marketing, the spending was reasonable but S-E's standard for success was too high, but whatever the case, it's clearly a case not of sales or revenue but profit.
I mean, SD is amazing but it's production values are not that high -- should it really have needed 4 million sales just to be 'profitable enough'? Could they have kept costs lower and still developed mostly the same game? Maybe... I mean, did it really need Emma Watson for basically 10 minutes? She probably spent more time doing media circus interviews than actual voice acting. Did it really need Edison Chen or quite as many licenses for its radio? Did those awesome live action trailers really turn a profit in terms of their expenses versus how much they increased sales?
I mean, who knows... and who knows who's really responsible for various expense decisions.
Really wished they'd been able to have kept costs down tho because they probably could have cut a few expensive marketing or voice acting/licenses things, and it would have still been 99% of the amazing game that is -- probably in my Top 5 favorite games of the last 10 years. And if they had delivered pretty much the same game but only had needed 2 million sales to satisfy S-E's investment, maybe we'd have a SD2.
Anyhow, again, not criticism, just lamenting since Sleepy Dawgs is such a gem IMO.
how much were they?This post is actually a great example of how most consumers misunderstand modern AAA game development. Everything you pointed to as an example of budgetary excess on SE's part were incredibly small expenditures compared to the cost of developing the game. Removing all of them wouldn't have really moved the needle at all in terms of sales expectations.